Woodrow Wilson interview by Louis Seibold

(The Post-Dispatch herewith presents, with President Wilson's full approval, the following interview which Louis Seibold, a staff correspondent of the Post-Dispatch and New York World, had with him at the White House this week.)

WASHINGTON, June 18.—The President, much interested in the extraordinary results of the Republican Convention at Chicago, asked a great many questions concerning the organization, the dominant figures and the controlling influences that dictated the platform and engineered the nomination of Mr. Harding. He seemed to take an almost boyish delight in the sketchy description that I was able to give him. Regarding the nominees, the President declined to make any comment beyond expressing the belief that the gentlemen selected for President and Vice President at Chicago "admirably harmonized with the platform."

"I suppose I should feel flattered," he said, with a twinkle in his eyes, "over being made the issue of the presidential campaign by the Republican party. But even the effort of the platform makers at Chicago to confer the distinction of being not only a burning but a living issue by camouflaging and obscuring the real issues will not deceive the people.

"The processes by which the Chicago platform was accomplished seemed to me to have been essentially and scientifically Prussian in inspiration and method. Instead of quoting Washington and Lincoln, the Republican platform should have quoted Bismarck and Bernhardi, because the Republican attitude regarding the supreme issue that cannot be abandoned or disregarded strongly suggests the arbitrary influences that dictated the doctrines of those two eminent persons.

"Every change directed against me and my administration is obviously designed to becloud and negative the paramount issues confronting the people of America, to befog their sense of responsibility and make violation of the obligations they have assumed to be of small consequence. I sincerely believe that the attempt of the Republican party to win the sanction of the American people for its attempted evasion of these obligations will be decisively rebuked. With one thing I am fully satisfied: this is that the Republican party in its platform has joined me in the suggestion I made in my letter to the guests at the Jackson day dinner in Washington in January last. In that letter I expressed the hope that a sincere attempt would be made to determine the attitude of the American people on the League of Nations by the resort to the genuinely democratic process of the referendum.

No Forecast of Sentiment.

"Of course, I have no way of anticipating the probable trend of sentiment that will be expressed in the Democratic National convention at San Francisco or forecasting the ultimate conclusions of that body. But I have every confidence that the delegates who will sit in that convention will repeat the challenge I issued to the Republican party and express their readiness to permit the people to decide between the vague and ambiguous declaration by the Republicans, and a positive and definite expression of opinion by the Democratic party. Whatever else the Democratic party may do, I hope that its convention at San Francisco will say just what it means on every issue, and that it will not resort either to ambiguity or evasions in doing so.

"I should prefer at this time not to discuss partisan politics or to venture any prediction as to the probable attitude that the Democratic convention will take on any subject. I sincerely believe, however, that the vast majority of gentlemen who will sit in the San Francisco convention will appreciate the necessity and permanent value of keeping the word that America has given to the rest of the world.

"This thing (the League of Nations) lies too deep to permit of any political sculduggery, any attempt to evade moral and humanitarian responsibilities much too solemn to treat so lightly or ignore.

"The thinly veiled rejection of the principle of the League of Nations by the Chicago convention will not fool any one. The attitude of Senator Lodge and that of Senator Johnson differ only in degree. Both are really opposed to it in any form. One of these gentlemen is disingenuous and evasive and the other candidly hostile.

"In common with other recognized spokesmen for the Republican party they accord me too much credit for the conception of the League of Nations project. While I am glad to assume the responsibility for the part I have played in promoting it, the honor of discovering its merits and appreciating its values cannot justly be given to me.

McKinley Advocated League.

"The last son of Ohio to become President of the United States advocated a League of Nations more than 15 years before I became impressed with its tremendous importance and seized upon it as providing the greatest insurance ever devised against war. I mean William McKinley, Senator Theodore Burton, another Ohio Republican possessing rare powers of perception, was an ardent champion of it. Senator Lodge was so favorably impressed with the value of a League of Nations as providing adequate safeguards against war that he openly championed it in an address before Union Seminary.

"So it must be a trifle disconcerting to some Republicans to have their party propose now to repudiate that which was approved a few years ago by some of their most important leaders. I am as confident today as I was when I returned from Paris finally in July last that the people of not only America, but of the entire world are in favor of the League of Nations; that they would feel a greater sense of security if its benefits should be guaranteed; that they would not approve with their votes of the policy of the Republican party which is wholly political in intent and purpose, to deny them the protection that the League of Nations assures.

"I am extremely confident that the Democratic convention at San Francisco will welcome the acceptance by the Republican party of my invitation to make the League of Nations the issue of the campaign. I am even more confident that such a referendum will confirm my faith that the American people desire it above anything that a political party may now provide, and that they will condemn the Republican policy of denying them the consummation of their hopes. No one will welcome a referendum on that issue more than I."

Chuckles at Republican Stand.

The President appeared to take it as a matter of course that the manifest purpose of the Republican Party will be to condemn by specific act the more important policies of his administration. He chuckled while discussing some of the features of the platform adopted by the Republican convention at Chicago.

"The Republican congressional policy was more significant for evasion of joint responsibility in grappling with the problems that confront the country than for any moral appreciation of the responsibility itself. Republican leaders in Congress cried for the repeal of some of the measures which they well knew protected the people from more serious evils than they would have the country know.

"The Lever food control act has proved to be one of the most effective agencies in preventing depredations at the expense of the people than almost any other measure now in operation. Time for repealing it is not yet.

"Republicans chorused a ponderous note of protest against the administration and enforcement of the espionage act and some other measures that were of vital necessity during the war. Yet I defy the Republicans to prove that the power given the Government during the war has ever been unjustly used against the people; that a single citizen has been unwarrantably punished for any act of aggression or disloyalty against the nation; that any man has been punished for expressing his opinion. I have read charges to the contrary, but in each instance I have had the matter thoroughly looked into and am in position to contest the accuracy of any statement that the rights of a single citizen have been unjustly invaded.

Had Power to End Unrest.

"The United States Senate has for 11 months had in its hands the power to end conditions that are unmistakably irksome to a great many of our citizens because with the ratification of the peace treaty the operation of laws that were enacted to safeguard the interests of the country in the war would automatically cease.

"As long as these laws are on the statute books they must be enforced. They have been and are being enforced with as little injury to the welfare of the country and rights of individuals as possible. I don't know that I would even care to defend any policy that I have deemed essential to the fullest protection of the national interest. That would be too much like offering an apology where one is not needed. I do not believe that my course calls for an apology of any kind.

"The Republican and not the Democratic policy has been responsible for any bad effects that have resulted from the failure of the Republican Senate to ratify the Versailles treaty and the covenant of the League of Nations. The Republican policy of negation has been persisted in for the sole purpose of advancing Republican chances for winning the coming presidential election and has never reflected a sincere desire to ameliorate the effect of measures adopted for protecting the country in time of war. The Republican policy has been rather to exaggerate the effect of these measures."

I asked the President if he clearly understood the exact status of Elihu Root, whose arrival at London was chronicled in the press of Monday. The dispatches from the British metropolis declared that Mr. Root, who is credited with having provided the general idea followed in framing the League of Nations plank adopted by the Republican convention, asserted that he had been invited to assist in setting up the machinery for the world court under the League of Nations.

Root's Status Not Clear.

The President replied that he did not possess any definite idea as to Mr. Root's status or through what agency the invitation had been extended him to lend the result of his long experience and diplomacy to the construction of the League of Nations' world court plan. I gathered from what the President said in this connection that neither Mr. Root nor any other man had been designated officially to represent the United States in connection with the work of setting up the machinery for the world court.

I asked the President if he had formed any opinion regarding the type of man that the Democratic party should propose for President.

"Now, Seibold," he said, with admonishing gesture of his right hand, "I told you that we would not discuss candidates, even those nominated by the Republicans at Chicago the other day. I have the greatest faith in the intelligent appreciation by the delegates who will assemble at San Francisco two weeks hence to write the platform and nominate the standard-bearers of our party. They will have before them the Republican platform, and will have estimated the effect of it on the people generally. They will have from whom to select candidates for the presidential and vice presidential nominations a number of excellent men. I should not want to express any preference or opinion regarding either individuals or platform expression which might influence the minds of the men whose votes will ultimately decide both.

"I hope and believe that the platform to be adopted at San Francisco will be more progressive and clearer in understanding than that enunciated by the Republicans at Chicago. The character of the men who will sit as delegates in the San Francisco convention should be sufficient guarantee that the issues upon which the campaign is to be fought will be met with definite and concrete statements, and not cloudy and ambiguous terms as was the case in Chicago."

"Then you do not regard the Republican platform and candidates as progressive?" I asked.

No Progressive Celebration.

Again the Wilson chuckle. "I should hardly dignify them with that term," he said dryly. "I do not see how any genuine Progressive can subscribe to either the method, motives or meaning—if he can understand the meaning—that characterized the writing of the Republican platform or the nomination of the Republican candidates for the presidency and vice presidency. I have not noticed (with a deprecating shake of his head) that very many Progressives have rent the skies with jubilation since the Republican convention completed its work.

"The Republican convention was the apotheosis of reaction. It was the direct antithesis of what I hope the Democratic convention at San Francisco will turn out to be. The leaders who call themselves Progressive and who pretended to speak for the Progressive element in the Republican party sacrificed every principle that made attractive the movement of eight years ago in order to gratify the ambition of some of the present-day leaders to prevent the people of the United States from fulfilling their honest obligations to the rest of the world and to themselves. The abandonment at Chicago of the progressive spirit was woefully tragic. I hope and believe that the tragedy at Chicago will provide the Democratic convention with an object lesson in this direction that will not be overlooked."

I brought up the subject of prohibition, woman suffrage, of the high cost of living, of Mr. Bryan.

The President made precisely the same reply to each inquiry. It was: "I have very great confidence in the sober judgment of the leaders of the Democratic party whose voice and influence will be felt at San Francisco. I believe they will provide a platform sufficiently broad, progressive, liberal, just and thoroughly Democratic to convince the people of the country of the complete honesty of the democratic purpose, of the difference between it and the Republican Party.

Has Not "Raised a Hand."

"I have not raised my hand or voice to aid in the promotion of any ambition for the Democratic presidential nomination, and I shall not do so. I think that the leaders of the party and delegates who will sit in the San Francisco convention will earnestly try to provide a platform and candidates that will attract greater support than those put forward by the Chicago convention. I am also confident that the Democratic leaders and delegates will hold the fullest appreciation of their obligations to the party and to the people. It is unthinkable that any Democrats should for an instant be influenced by the selfish and sinister motives that lie back of the Republican plan to stultify and discredit the United States in the eyes of the world.

"I do not believe that they will permit themselves to be led astray in order to gratify the vanity or promote the uncharitable or selfish impulses of any individual."