Wikisource talk:Wikiproject Salvation of Israel Project

Title
Needless to say, this project is one with the potential to create great controversy. At Wikipedia there are periodic wars about Jewish-Christian/Missionary religion, controversies which I personally find quite distasteful, and it would be nice to avoid them at Wikisource. It really should be a lot easier here, since rather that trying to write neutral articles about bitterly contested topics, all we need to do here is provide accurate versions of the texts themselves. This should make it easier to build a library of texts together without controversy, and I think that for the most part it has. Because access to the text is an agreed-upon good here, regardless of what one's opinions are about that text.

That being said, the project title here reflects a very clear POV: Wikiproject Salvation of Israel Project. Needless to say, the vast majority of Jews and millions of modern Christians do not share the belief that "Israel" needs any sort of "salvation" in the Christian sense. An accurate title for this genre according to most would simply be Wikiproject Missionary literature, but I am aware that those who follow this literature would find that title objectionable. The title "Messianic" is also highly controversial. Perhaps the most neutral might be "Jewish-Christian" or "Hebrew-Christian" literature. Or maybe some other option.Dovi 03:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * After some reconsideration I withdraw my objection. Given that a Wikisource project is one that tries to encourage uploading and editing texts of a certain kind according to the interests of the contributors and as they define them, there should be no objection to a project defining itself any way it desires by any name. That being said, the texts that are contributed to Wikisource may then be classified in more than one way, or according to some sort of NPOV consensus. So I remove any objection to the name and scope of the project as defined on this page. Dovi 08:01, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Even though you withdrew your objection, Dovi, I feel the need to explain some things. I understand where you're coming from. I was trying to side step a few things when I named the project.
 * All I want to do with this project is faithfully reproduce the writings of all persons who where Jewish (ethically, or halakadicly) and where also believers in Jesus as the Messiah. Or, persons of gentile extraction with a strong (personal or scholarly) connection with such persons. Thats it, none of my own POV, just texts of all such persons. I hope that publishing the writings of adherents of ages past will actually help stop the POV edit wars on Wikipedia.
 * As you point out there are frequent edit-wars on this subject on Wikipedia. IMHO they have been some of the nastiest edit wars the project has to offer, with the possible exception of the infamous Abortion edit wars. One of the problems is the inconsistency of terms even within the movement(s) by which adherents self identify. There is a lot of fuzziness as to who's a "Messianic" or "Messianic Jew" or "Hebrew-Christian" or "Jewish-Christian" or [insert fissionable label here]. So, basically, even though my goals where simple enough, naming the project was virtually guaranteed to ether (a) piss somebody off and start a rename/redirect war here in Wikisource, or, (b) be a mile long page name nobody will remember.
 * I am actually open to suggestions on renaming the project page, as long as its short, intelligible, and not likely to cause problems with adherents and opponents of the movement(s). Though I do intend to keep the WS:MESSIANIC shortcut. &mdash;Wikijeff 19:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I really don't think there is any reason to rename (i.e. I stick with my withdrawel). In #1 you define your area of interest (in terms of certain texts you are trying to upload). It is a subjective definition -- yours and that of anyone who may choose to join you -- but it is clear, and as long as that leads to the uploading of previously published texts it should be fine for Wikisource. Dovi 20:55, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I do strongly recommend renaming the project, as most Jews and Israelis will find a Christian project named "Salvation of Israel" both offensive and misleading.


 * I suggest adding "Messianic" to the title. That should cause no problems for adherents and far less problems for opponents of the movement, IMHO. If it's too long you may drop the leading "WikiProject," as it already has "Project" at its end. Thus, Messianic Salvation of Israel Project -- Nevuchadnezzar 02:32, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Possible goals for 2013
This is probably more than a bit presumptuous on my part, but I have started a discussion at w:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion in the English wikipedia asking what if any sort of goals we might be able to reasonably set for the next year, in wikipedia and other WF sites as well. I figured the wikipedia probably gets more attention, which is why I started the discussion there. But I would be very interested in seeing any input regarding what the editors here think might be the areas here most in need or meriting additional attention. Maybe, and at this point it is just a maybe, maybe we might be able to get some input on such topics if we have some idea what it is we really need to work on. Anyway, I would welcome any input anyone here might have. John Carter (talk) 19:47, 4 November 2012 (UTC)