Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2023

Transclusion with table across pages wonkiness
For Yates's Minutes, I've followed the instructions in both the Transclusion and Page break help directions, but for some reason it's not working. Any help on resolving this would be much appreciated. -- Foofighter20x (talk) 00:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * There's too many pages in that transclusion to determine quickly where the problem you're seeing is. Can you please be specific? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:44, 2 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I fixed the page and the tables but in two parts. The problem wasn't too many pages, but the number of open tags/templates waiting to be closed on the following page. It is over-coded and over-tagged. In the Page namespace, section end codes belong at the end of a chapter and not at the top of the following page, which is the start of a new chapter and will not be seen by the previous chapter. Keep all coding of a page namespace chapter within its boundaries.


 * I always use the Djvu page number preceded by the letter B or E for section codes as in . This indicates begin or end, requires no enclosure with double quotes and it's reference is clear and accurate. The section tags need not be remembered on transclusion, where the Djvu number is used in the index tag.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 07:36, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Disabling Wikisource shortcut keys?
Is there a way to disable the keys with the modifiers, like alt+shift+s, etc.? &#32;— ineuw (talk) 04:53, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

List Of Music Bands & Artists
Hi! Big fan! Donate every year! Does anyone know how I could get my hands on a text or Excel (or whatever!) list of music bands? I'd love for it to be every band that ever had an album released on a major, but I get that that is impossible, ha! I just need it to be an easy copy and paste job for a college project that involves categorization and the more lists/artists/bands the merrier! It's very hard and time-consuming any other way. Please respond to mprestontoday@gmail.com and Marry Christmas! 2601:281:201:D990:4D5:236F:565A:520B 21:40, 25 December 2022 (UTC)


 * I meant "Merry" Christmas lol. Again, mprestontoday@gmail.com as I wouldn't know how else to even check any responses to this. Thanks!! 2601:281:201:D990:4D5:236F:565A:520B 21:41, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
 * This is the wrong project for this: this is Wikisource, where we trasncibe public domain and freely licensed text. Wikidata is more likely to be what you are after. For example, this is a list of 85000+ bands known at Wikidata. d:Wikidata:Request_a_query can help you with more precise queries. In theory, with a more precise statement of the actual question (e.g. what you mean by "major") you can indeed get a list of every band that has a record on a major label, but you will have to ask there as I am not very good at the query language and they are experts. Good luck! Inductiveload— talk/contribs 22:28, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Selected OCR setting doesn't stick between pages
I need to change the page segmentation method from the default which is very slow. I get instant results with "Automatic page segmentation with OSD". But, after each page it resets itself to the default. Is there a way to lock my selection? &#32;— ineuw (talk) 11:04, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Need advice regarding a document
I have just started work on getting an article into Wikipedia. One of my references is a memorial speech from 1986. It was probably prepared by the deceased's wife and children, possibly with input from fellow-workers. I have a printed copy of the speech and a scanned PDF version of it. It contains useful information about the deceased's life. Is there any place in the Wiki world where I can upload this document and refer to it? Please advise. Thanks Slim8029 (talk) 21:16, 6 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The document has to be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons and accompanied by the author's permission to be published. There is extensive information on the Commons about the variety of possibilities on how to go about it.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 22:19, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Tables within fti
If I try and create a Wikimedia table, without it being inside a template, it works, for example:

Produces:

However, if I try and wrap it in ft/i, a film transcription template for in-scene text, as such:

This bug happens as a result, only printing out a single " { ":

Anyone know why this happens or how to fix this? PseudoSkull (talk) 02:53, 25 December 2022 (UTC)


 * @PseudoSkull I'm thinking the simplest fix might be to create templates ft/i/s and ft/i/e (in the vein of fine block/s and the like) to entirely bypass the difficulty of putting tables into template parameters. Shells-shells (talk) 03:27, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Alright, I made templates with those names and what I did seems to work. Thanks. PseudoSkull (talk) 20:12, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
 * PseudoSkull: This is because the template parses the vertical bar as a parameter separator, giving ft/i just { as the first parameter and a number of effectively worthless further parameters. Without making new templates, use  (not a template, but a magic word) to replace the vertical bar. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 22:06, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

TOC not linking
Poe's poems have all been proofed, but doen't like from the TOC (e.g. Page:The_Works_of_the_Late_Edgar_Allan_Poe_(Volume_II).djvu/12 is almost entirely red links). I don't know how to fix w/o likely breaking it further. Kwamikagami (talk) 02:52, 8 January 2023 (UTC)


 * These are red links because of the way the subpage links were set up. If you look in the mainspace transclusion (The Works of the Late Edgar Allan Poe/Volume 2, all the links on that page are blue—which is what's important. There's no need to sort it in the Page: namespace. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Missing Gadget: Disable Access Keys
This Gadget is available in Wikipedia but not globally. I want to copy and add it to our gadgets, but never done anything like this before, and can't even find it when searching their Gadget: namespace.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 05:02, 18 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Ineuw: There's a reason most editors don't have permission to edit Gadgets and other project-wide code. :-)What problem is this supposed to solve? Xover (talk) 08:00, 18 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The missing global setting was just an observation. Personally, not being able to block these keys limits the keyboard macro utilities of Autokey in Linux, and Autohotkey in Windows, from using the same key combinations for other, more important functions. &#32;— ineuw (talk) 08:27, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm. All web browsers use a dedicated "prefix" (set of modifier keys) for web page-defined accesskeys, precisely to avoid clashes with system-defined shortcuts. If you avoid that particular set (varies by browser) you should be fine. If you still feel you need it you can copy the enWP Gadget as a user script and load it from your common.js. The Gadget code lives at w:MediaWiki:Gadget-removeAccessKeys.js. Xover (talk) 08:56, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link. I will copy it into my namespace because I need it. I studied the access keys of the apps I use. Generally, the tendency is Ctrl key combinations first, which are not used in my scripts. Primary use of a Ctrl key is a "legacy" tendency. For browser, I use Firefox in which I can disable their access keys with a user preference. Vivaldi is a beautifully crafted Chromium based browser with a decidedly Nordic European bent. They also offer user control over their keyboard shortcuts and mouse settings.
 * The secret which is unknown to me at this point, what determines a hierarchy of keyboard control in a window. I mention this because of observing various applications' keyboard control, or the lack of them. I used to have macros in Autokey assigned to Alt+Shift+s, (the Save key of Wikipedia), but there was a conflict occasionally, and I disabled the conflicting keys but want to use them. Interestingly, w:MediaWiki:Gadget-removeAccessKeys.js is labelled as a global resource.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 09:56, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, what enWP means by "global" in this context is "affects every user of English Wikipedia". It's not "global" as in "available on all WMF wikis". It's a local Gadget on enWP, which we could obviously import here and adapt for our own use if needed, but it and most other Gadgets on enWP are enWP-specific. Xover (talk) 15:30, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Ineuw why don't you just use it for yourself, and not worry about making this as a gadget for the site? I think that sitewise we have little call for its use, and we would be better off to just point people to the available tool if one or two find it useful to use, something like this instruction could sit in WS:Tools and scripts about their loading to their special:mypage/common.js. Note that you can load this globally for yourself at m:special:mypage/global.js — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:24, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with you 100%. Many thanks for the instructions.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 13:10, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Page scan trouble
When i zoom in on scan it gets larger and usually returns to normal. For some reason it does not return to normal. Even when I restart Wikisource. Daytrivia (talk) 05:51, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Daytrivia: Press the button above the page with the magnifying glass and the 0 inside; that returns the image to the original size. For some reason, the zoom now remains across pages; this issue has not yet been fixed (or maybe even reported?). TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 15:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This is not a "bug", but a "feature". It was mentioned in last week's Tech News. Basically, the assumption (by whom I don't know) is that if you need to change the zoom on one page for an Index: you'll need that zoom level for all pages associated with that Index. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:54, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Inductiveload, apparently, led the change. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 16:17, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

I do not see a magnifying glass and the 0 inside. When I use Microsoft Edge I don't have the problem but doesn't work any more with Chrome.Daytrivia (talk) 10:27, 25 January 2023 (UTC) Not working in Microsoft Edge now. This very discouraging. What is going on?Daytrivia (talk)

CSS problem with World Factbook 2004 table/section
Why is there a visible gap between the  cells, and what do I need to add to Template:World Factbook 2004 table header/styles.css to get rid of it? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 22:35, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * OK, looks like the answer is  —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 01:27, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Adding sources
I created International Copyright and The Ploughman (Holmes) earlier today, but International Copyright got tagged with a "no source" box. I typed them in from my school literature textbook. How can I add a source? I'm not sure I can scan the pages legally, because the textbook itself is copyrighted. 184.21.204.5 03:16, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi. Typically we would enter source data to the work's talk page, and there we are recording the source of the work, and for you that would be the name of the textbook, the author, and the year of publication. Usually we use textinfo template. Ideally we would like to have scans of works, though obviously in this situation we will not. Help:Contents is the starting place here. — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:46, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you ! Does this look good? Talk:International_Copyright 184.21.204.5 17:43, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thumbs up — billinghurst  sDrewth  09:24, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I'll keep doing that for the other texts I add. 184.21.204.5 20:15, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Why is my sheet music rendering incorrectly?
I'm trying to add sheet music to Great Is Thy Faithfulness. I have this (view source to see code):

As you can see, although it compiles in Frescobaldi, it does not work here.

Also, in Frescobaldi, it shows the first measure of the refrain on one line, followed by as much as fits on the next line, with the rest hidden. How do I fix that? 184.21.204.5 23:17, 25 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Variables, such as \chorusnotes, don't work in the mediawiki implementation of Lilypond. We need to put the notes into the \score context. The problem you're having with the chorus in Frescobaldi is because bars 2 and 4 don't add to 3 beats. The second note in each should be semiquavers—marked with 16, while you've got them as quavers—marked with 8. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:53, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for catching that! It works in Frescobaldi now, but it still isn't working in MediaWiki.


 * Luke10.27 (talk) 16:13, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I got it working by splitting the verses and chorus into separate


 * Luke10.27 (talk) 20:01, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm, it's working at the Sandbox. Luke10.27 (talk) 20:01, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This appears to be an error with the Reply tool, which is incorrectly inserting colons before every line of the text even when that line is part of a
 * Shells-shells (talk) 20:46, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Is it necessary to use two separate score elements, or is there a way to combine them? Luke10.27 (talk) 20:48, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Luke10.27 I've made an attempt at the Sandbox. If your goal is to force a line break, that can be achieved with the  command. Shells-shells (talk) 21:04, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! That looks perfect. I haven't done the bass clef yet. Should I wait to post it to Great Is Thy Faithfulness until I've done that, or should I post it now and add the bass clef later? Luke10.27 (talk) 21:06, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It's probably better to wait until it's fully transcribed; but I'm sure there's no harm in doing so now. Shells-shells (talk) 21:10, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I got it done; how does it look? Great Is Thy Faithfulness Luke10.27 (talk) 22:37, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The only thing I couldn't figure out was putting the sharp signs that go next to the clef sign, so I just attached them to the notes instead. Luke10.27 (talk) 22:40, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Luke10.27: It looks great! If you could just scan in the page (rather than the whole book), that should be fine for scan-backing. For the key, you can use, replacing “g” with whatever the key is. If you’re not sure, you can just look up “x sharps major” and you should get a result. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:33, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! There should be nothing copyrighted in a sheet music page of PD music, right?
 * So the sharp signs after the clef signs indicate the key? Luke10.27 (talk) 23:36, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Luke10.27: Yes, a series of sharps (or flats) after the clef indicates the key signature. Frescobaldi is a lot nicer than writing it out by hand, but if you have any questions about LilyPond/score formatting, feel free to ask me (as I have a bit of experience) or here at the help desk. As shells said above, you can rewrite the above to combine the score elements. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:41, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I marked it as D major, which looks like the right key, but it put natural symbols on notes that don't have them in the hymnal and would be natural anyway, if I'm reading the music correctly. It's on the page; is that normal? Luke10.27 (talk) 23:48, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Luke10.27 See the LilyPond documentation on key signatures, especially the warning at the bottom. In LilyPond, changing key signature does not change the pitch of any note, only the presence or absence of accidental signs. The pitch of each note has to be explicitly stated in the code. Shells-shells (talk) 00:31, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The notes showing with natural signs would be natural anyway in D major, unless I'm misreading the music? Luke10.27 (talk) 00:40, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The key of D major has two sharps, F♯ and C♯. By convention the key signature is written only on a few specific lines and spaces of the staff, but in fact it applies to all notes regardless of octave. That is, every F and C in this piece—not just the ones lying on the same lines or spaces as the sharp symbols in the key signature—is presumed to be sharp unless indicated otherwise. Shells-shells (talk) 00:57, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay. So I need to mark all of the F's and C's as fis and cis? Luke10.27 (talk) 01:00, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Essentially, yes. Shells-shells (talk) 01:07, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I did that and it matches the source now. Thank you! I uploaded a scan to Commons: [[Media:Great Is Thy Faithfulness sheet music from Abeka.webp|Great Is Thy Faithfulness sheet music from Abeka.webp]]. What goes in Page:Great Is Thy Faithfulness sheet music from Abeka.webp? Sheet music in Lilypond, lyrics as regular wikitext, or both? Luke10.27 (talk) 01:23, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

@User:Luke10.27 This webpage (archived) has what appears to be a scan of the original 1923 version, which I think would be the ideal one to transcribe here. I tried and failed to locate a scan of the whole book, though copies are held in a few American libraries. To answer your question, I think the sheet music should probably be placed on the page alone in this case. Shells-shells (talk) 10:56, 28 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Okay, thank you! At somme point I'll probably add that, but for now I got the Abeka scan done: [] . How do you format the header? Luke10.27 (talk) 19:44, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Validating
I just proofread Page:O Henry Prize Stories of 1924.djvu/209, and the only issue was one extra comma, which I removed. How do I mark it as validated? Luke10.27 (talk) 23:33, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Luke10.27: See Help:Page status § Details: below the editing window and page view, and above the “publish changes” button, there should be a set of dots; if the page was already proofread, the yellow dot will be selected, in which case you can selected the green dot to validate the page. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:41, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I marked it as validated. Luke10.27 (talk) 23:43, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Problem downloading EPUB
For the book The Wings of the Dove (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1902) by Henry James, due to the way the contents are organized, it seems that I have to visit each of the 5 "books" in each of the 2 volumes individually, and use the "Download EPUB" feature in each, to download 10 .epub files in all. This seems rather awkward. Is there a way to download the 2-volume book as one EPUB? Harris7 (talk) 19:47, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Harris7: Does it work now? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 04:02, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * TE(æ)A,ea.: Sorry, no. I still get a mostly-empty document with just title pages and table of contents, listing the 5 books in each volume.  BTW, this can also be tested by using the "Download PDF" function, which yields the same result. Harris7 (talk) 10:55, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Harris7: The problem is an internal one, it seems. There are two download buttons. One is found in the “Download/Print” section in the sidebar; that doesn’t work (it returns the result you got). The other one is a blue “Download” button, which floats to the right of the title. That button does work, and should return the whole document. Do you have that button/can you try downloading it from that source? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:05, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * TE(æ)A,ea.: Yes, the blue Download button now works for me, for either EPUB or PDF format - Thanks! I know it didn't work before your edit (to add "Hidden export TOC"), so that change was also needed.  To follow up, is there a mechanism to report this apparent bug in the "other" download features (Download EPUB/PDF/etc. in the left margin menu) ?
 * Harris7 (talk) 18:11, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Harris7: The sidebar downloads respond to https://ws-export.wmcloud.org/. I’ll report it to our local administrators’ noticeboard, where it can be pushed on to the right person. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 20:12, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

How to not display a URL as a link?
Fairly new in WikiWorld. This is just one of several problems I'm having with the Jan. 6th report (Page:Final Report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol.pdf/260), specifically pages 233-4. As you can see, these are Endnotes at the end of a chapter, and they go on for pages, so one problem is how to number them. I tried the "#" but of course, that doesn't work. I've located the numbered list template and it seems to work, so I guess that's the way to go. However, when a page break occurs in the middle of one of the notes, do you have to 'manually' indent the content of the note (like I've done on the top of page 234)?

Another problem is a URL that, in the source, is not a link, but when the system interacts with the text it makes it a link. How do I prevent that? (see the content of Endnote #6 at the top of page 234).

And finally, another problem with a link. Compare Endnote #7 with the original source ... you'll see that the entire text of the original #7 is missing, and is replaced with #8's content. The link at the end of endnote#7 is causing this. I put in the content WITHOUT the link, it's fine. I include the link and the entire content is omitted and replaced with the content of the next note. Very puzzling.

Thank you for your time. Snafu22q (talk) 06:23, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Snafu22q: The # will work after transclusion, but will show the wrong number in Page: (except for the first page of notes). The problem with your manual indent is that it is in the main section (not the top), so the artificial indent will survive into transclusion. Another note: you use sm, but that only works for a single line; for multiple lines of smaller text, put smaller block over everything. (This can be easily accomplished by putting smaller block/s in the header, after the running header, and smaller block/e in the footer.) If you’re going to use numbered list consistently, you should do as follows:
 * At the beginning of the notes (p. 233), put a smaller block/s and numbered list/s before the notes.
 * At the very end of the notes, put a numbered list/e and a smaller block/e after it.
 * For each page which is all notes, put smaller block/snumbered list/s in the header, and numbered list/esmaller block/e in the footer.
 * If a note continues over a page (like footnote 6 over pp. 233–234), put numbered list/c in the top instead. As for hyper-links, the system will automatically format hyper-links in that fashion; there’s no real way around it. The Mueller Report deals with hyper-links in the same manner. The reason for the deletion of footnote 7 is because that hyper-link includes an equals sign, which messes with template formatting. To get around this, replace any equals sign with =. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 15:30, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you so very, very much Snafu22q (talk) 05:02, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, so ... if you check the pages we were talking about, you'll see your advice has made them better, but I still have something screwed up. I'm going to blame the fact there is no apparent "numbered list/s" documentation with examples exactly how to use it. Or at least none I could find.
 * On pg 233, I'm getting two #1s, which makes sense since there are 2 numbered list templates preceding the content. Maybe I'm just tired, but I've tried a number of ways to make it work, but I haven't come up with the right combination & placement of pipes and such. I've also tried to just remove the second 'nested list' template. I'd appreciate an example, if you would.
 * Also, on page 234, the continuation of the note from the previous page isn't formatted correctly. I imagine if the text was transcluded as is, it would work out - but isn't it supposed to 'look' like the source page? How can I accomplish this?
 * Thank you again. Snafu22q (talk) 11:08, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Snafu22q: I have figured out the various templates. Keep the smaller block (with /s and /e in the header and footer) as normal. For all references which are on one page (notes 1–5 on page 233), use numbered list. For all pages after the first page, add, where n is the number of the first full reference on the page. For references which cross pages, do the following:
 * At the beginning of the reference, put, followed by the text of the reference.
 * At the bottom of that page, put numbered list/e in the footer.
 * At the top of the next page, put numbered list/c in the header.
 * Then enter the text of the reference at the top of that page, followed by numbered list/e.
 * Then, at the start of the first full reference (number 7 on page 234), put.
 * This should work consistently in both Page: and main, I hope. Again, no documentation. The reason the reference at the top of page 234 looked weird was because you forgot to put numbered list/e at the end of that text; I have done that, so it should look nice now. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 18:02, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Left margin creating an issue
I'm in the middle of adding the 1917 Hamilton play at Index:Hamilton play 1917.pdf, and one very kind Wikisource user came along and helped with some of the formatting of a left-margin indent, but in one instance, it's created another problem. On page 18 of the scan, the final dialogue tag for "Tallyrand" is further away from the dialogue beneath it compared other tags. I've tested it and know that the existence of the left-margin template is causing it, yet I've tried to come up with any way to fix it without (1) removing the left-margin formatting, which I don't want, because it creates new problems, or (2) creating an extra space between the dialogue and the text formatted with the left-margin template, which I also don't want to do, because it doesn't reflect the source text or the style previously used.

Would appreciate any help. Thank you. Packer1028 (talk) 07:44, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Packer1028: Does my fix work? As I thought, it was an odd interaction between the last bit of dialogue (with no block formatting) and the last paragraph (with a left indent). To internally separate the two section, I put - (also known as clear) in the blank space between two paragraphs, so that the formatting for one would not mess up the formatting for the other. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 15:35, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, it did! The formatting you used solved it exactly as needed. I went back and added it with the other times the left-margin format has been used so far, and will continue to use it in future. Thank you so much! Packer1028 (talk) 07:39, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Is this page formatted correctly?
I have a few questions about Page:Airplane photography.djvu/9. Is it desirable to set font sizes, and if so, how should it be done? Are line wraps handled correctly? Should the picture (a seal of some type?) be included? Luke10.27 (talk) 21:53, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Have a look at what I've done with respect to the font sizes. I've included the image as well—it was already uploaded on Commons as it's a standard one for Lippincott's works of the period. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:48, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I'll do that on future pages. Should I used hwe and hws on regular body text pages too? Luke10.27 (talk) 22:56, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Not normally. hws/hwe is designed for words that are broken over page-breaks and is mostly not required these days because the words are put back together automagically. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:28, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * It looks like the OCR layer gets out of sync at page 98. I'm sure that's easily fixed, but I have no idea how. So, I'll just mention it here. 8582e (talk) 16:01, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Log a request in the Scan repair section of the Scan Lab and someone will attend to it. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:39, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

No, please do not hardcode font sizes, we typically only apply relative sizing, per Help:Templates. We work on keeping it as simple as possible and letting the browser do the work, and where readers have set preferences in their browsers, or more locally in their "common.css" settings, then letting them have that control. Line wraps are generally handled, though there is code/styles that users can insert that upset natural wrapping. Re hws/hwe, it is not as black and white as Beeswaxcandle states as there are a number of types of works that do behave nicely without that use, so I typically will always do hwe as I prefer to manage that control and not have to fix it where it doesn't work. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:49, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

New bilingual book
Dear friends,

I have imported the bilingual book Simonetta Fadda Reality Show using the Iwpage template. The final result may be vastly improved, but my experience in editing en.source is quite outdated, so if any experienced user could help me in extracting the pictures and formatting correctly the text in ns0 I will be more than happy. Thank you!  &epsilon; &Delta; &omega;  10:08, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I have inserted the images from the PDF, though they are not the best quality. If you are aware of better quality images then they would be ideal to upload to Commons (or here, per copyright).  We wouldn't normally apply unwarranted formatting that is not in the original work, so that bit looks okay to me, though I did do a little italics and some wikilinks to reputedly published works. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:42, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Traffics Signs -
Hi, 2 reports I've been wanting to add for some time:- Index:Index:Traffic Signs for Motorways (1962).pdf Index:Report of the Traffic Signs Committee (1963).pdf

The first pass text is present, much appreciated if someone figures out how to do the images, (preferably as SVG).

Oh and if someone can track down the 1944 and 1933 Departmental reports... (hint) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:18, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Custom footnote styles...
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:UKSI1964_(Part_3-_Section_1).pdf/1312

Is there an approach I can use in Indexstyles to have the citations display as alpha-numeric? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:15, 9 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I can change the numbering in the generated list, what I can't yet do is change the numbering for the actual inline-footnote numbering. Suggestions?  ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:56, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * being how I get the formatting in the actual reference list. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:57, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * At the very least it would be nice to implement:
 * MediaWiki:Cite link label group-lower-alpha
 * and others locally, based on the updated behaviour in the cite extension...
 * Of course if there was a way to define footnote styles on a per work basis (hint hint cough cough)...
 * ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:38, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:38, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

No, no and no. English Wikisource has our determined style for endnotes and footnotes. We do not follow the styles of the works. This has long been our policy and it is in place for very good reasons. Please do not interrupt the numbering, it needs to work as a local work, not to mirror the original. What you are trying to do is against all the guidance that we provide. — billinghurst  sDrewth  21:05, 9 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for confirming what I thought was policy anyway, so I've reverted those changes. (It would of course be nice in some uses cases not to have the group name in the ref tag, but that's a limitation I can work with. I can set group=M if needed, based on what legislation.gov.uk does.) BTW did you mean Help:Footnotes_and_endnotes? (Setting a redirect.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:14, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * BTW Is there a process for suggesting certain short 'group' names are by consensus only used for certain things?
 * For something I was going to work on eventually, I was planning on adopting a convention of using:-


 * Within the given work concerned I doubt there would be more than 26 different "groups" needed.
 * ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:43, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Help with Elliott's Debates volumes 3 and 5
1. Vol. 3: Is it best practice to create a 653 page chapter? Should it be broken up even though it's not reflected in the table of contents? See https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Debates_in_the_Several_State_Conventions,_v3.djvu Is there guidance or a preference for how to handle this?

2. Vol. 5, pg. v: How does one handle a columnar table of contents?

Thanks, 11:25, 10 February 2023 (UTC) Foofighter20x (talk) 11:25, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Foofighter20x: (1.) In this case, the natural divisions in the other volumes are sufficient normally, but for this volume in particular it is absurd. I don’t even know if MediaWiki could handle a 653 page chapter, so it would be best to break it up into a few sections. Are there good natural divisions in the “chapter”? (2.) Ignore the columns. They can be represented, but it hurts readability and doesn’t work cleanly across pages. Practice (e.g. here) is to simply ignore the columns. Also, thank you for proofreading such an important historical text! It is much appreciated, especially as his work is frequently cited in court cases looking at constitutional understanding. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:42, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, and roger that. I had thought to break up the Virginia Convention by each day but decided to check here first. I guess then my remaining question is: do I afterwards alter the table of contents on the splash page to reflect how it's going to be broken up, or do I leave it as is set up to reflect the volume's actual table of contents? Foofighter20x (talk) 03:42, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Foofighter20x: Use AuxTOC for Book title/Chapter N and then for each day Book title/Chapter N/Day 1 or whatever titles will work. Although, I am uncertain if the links need to be added to the main page for export to see it.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 16:21, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I've added the auxiliary table of contents, but is there a way to clean it up so it's more calendar-like? [edit: I mean for v3] Foofighter20x (talk) 20:59, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Foofighter20x: How does is it look? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:18, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
 * That should do the trick. Now I can tackle v5. After that, just need to find victims to confirm the proofreading. :) Foofighter20x (talk) 01:42, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Headings over multiple columns in wiki tables
Hi all,

I am currently trying to transcribe a table in https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:CIA-RDP01-00707R000200070030-5.pdf/36 that has headings over multiple columns - how to make them extend? I tried colspan but that doesn't seem to work. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to do this and would like some help from someone more experienced. Thanks!

JoeSolo22 (talk) 20:26, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * @JoeSolo22, here you go! The  and   isn't necessary, but it's nice from a semantic perspective. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 04:53, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much!
 * JoeSolo22 (talk) 14:50, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Two Small Scores and a Table in The Way of All Flesh
Could someone add the two one-line scores and one table in Index:The way of all flesh (IA wayofallflesh01butl).pdf. Many Thanks! Languageseeker (talk) 03:47, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Done all three. Page status not advanced as I didn't look at the rest of the text. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:18, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @Beeswaxcandle Thanks! Languageseeker (talk) 00:59, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Enough is Enough
Uploaded in good faith using IA-upload, but the text layer is adrift somehow.. Index:The Authorized Daily Prayer Book (Singer 1915).djvu (

This was uploaded as replacement for - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Singer-Siddur-1915-AI.pdf using an alternate scan, as I'd identified some missing pages.

It should NOT take multiple uploads to have ONE intact set of scans.

The apparent lack of a RELIABLE way of getting intact, correctly aligned scans onto Commons, is becoming a considerable disincentive to continued contributions from me. Please, please, the tool-chain's that support workflows here so that I don't have to continually rely on other more technically minded contributors to sort out the mess left by tools that don't currently appear to work as intended. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:57, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * This looks like a very old problem, see . --Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:03, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. At the very least IA-upload should warn about an apparent inconsistency.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:06, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, I stopped using IA-upload long ago. I prefer getting the PDFs from Hathitrust, which are of very good quality, and creating the DjVu files myself. Yann (talk) 10:21, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Same for me. It is annoying that this bug has not been fixed in 5 years, we had to fix many files due to this. Mpaa (talk) 18:04, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Module:Heading
My goal is to implement heading in Lua, because the code right now is a mess. However, I'm having a couple problems, which you can see on Template:Heading/testcases.

First, I think there's something wrong with my string matching. (Look for .) Second, apparently the   has nil entries which   is trying to concatenate. How do I fix these problems? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 04:04, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I can come back with why do we need it? I much prefer to see nesting of templates, rather than some obscure jargonistic template. I am quite happy to see .  It hardly every is problematic to proofread nor interferes with the text. What is gained by using heading? Much prefer that we utilise the help structure of Help:templates and I contend that it is evident to any new proofread that they can understand what is happening compared with  I would happily say kill the template and convert all the uses of the template. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:17, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Billinghurst honestly that sounds good to me. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 06:24, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The main advantage of the template is that it has html heading levels built in and therefore anchors are automatically attached. I've been using it for several years now, but was unaware of the extensive range of fontsize codes, etc. that are listed on the template doc. and hence haven't used those. The only override I can recall ever using is c ≡ center. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:02, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Personally never used, nor ever saw the need. We had a conversation years ago where hesperian made some great arguments about not building layers of templates, nor the ability to inject more code into these templates, when we could just keep it simple and obvious. [Remembering that someone else has to validate our proofreading and our coding.] The html heading levels to me have rarely been useful to me in older works, and the ever present [edit] tag they generate is always an issue when the transcluded pages are in the page: ns. [I am probably just a simple dinosaur.] — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:06, 20 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The template as it currently stands is a horrible mess that should be killed, murdered, and then slain for good measure. BUT! What we do need is a set of generic chapter heading templates that default to the equivalent of, but that add CSS classes (and possibly also an automatic anchor) that can be styled by Index: styles. That way you can do consistent fancy headers if the particular work requires it but still keep the usage / instructions simple: it's always just the simple template without a custom microlanguage of ts-style formatting codes.I've considered trying to do that on many occasions but pushed it down my todo for the simple reason that these templates are a massive pain to migrate due to the custom formatting codes (it's very hard to automate sensibly). But what we could do, if there's consensus for deprecating these, is to simply move them to new names (legacy heading template or something), migrate all existing uses to that (with a tracking cat so we can fully migrate them at some point in the future), and then reuse the sensible names for something with a sensible design along the lines above.PS. The current template's use of HTML hn tags is actually a problem. MediaWiki owns those tags and will unilaterally style them as it sees fit (or add little edit links to them, or...). Mostly it will see fit to style them as needed for English Wikipedia. So long as we use these we will be constantly fighting with MediaWiki for control over them. And for our purposes there is nothing really magical about the hn tags that can't be achieved equally well through other means. Xover (talk) 07:39, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, and it's not just heading. We have multiple templates that attack the problem in similar ways. I don't have the list handy but I ran into it last time I looked because I was trying to find alternate names for a clean implementation and all of them were taken by some variant of heading. Xover (talk) 07:42, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I do love a good bonfire. — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:07, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Other templates with "heading" in the name include
 * classed heading
 * centred italic heading
 * centred bold heading
 * chapter heading
 * spaced chapter heading
 * —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 05:35, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * My thinking on this—to the degree I can claim it as such—is that the above templates all should be migrated away from. The replacement, where it is not simply nested formatting templates, is a very small set of templates ala. chapter heading (ch) and chapter subheading (csh) that provide by default centered text of two font sizes, but that add CSS classes that can be targeted by Index: styles to do whatever arbitrary complex formatting a given work may require. The defaults should be good enough for "90%" of cases (99%? 80%? Doesn't matter; most of them in any case), and only very exceptional cases should actually merit custom styling. The templates should automatically create link targets, and support custom targets in case they need to fit with a naming schema. But they should not use hn tags or the wikimarkup equivalents so they don't have to fight MediaWiki and the skin. They should not support any direct formatting codes as parameters (including general style), as an explicit rule / principle (it belongs in the Index: styles, should be used sparingly, and should mostly be handled with the normal direct formatting templates). ts was a mistake, albeit one that it's hard to find a good replacement for, so we have to live with it but should not replicate its approach elsewhere.The new templates should also explicitly not try to solve every conceivable need. Having a chapter title or number is common. Having a subtitle is relatively common. Having a complex structure with a title, a subtitle, separate chapter number, a pithy quote, horizontal rules or bullets... These, to the degree they need to be reproduced, should not be shoehorned onto the templates but handled "some other way". Templates that try to deal with arbitrarily complex scenarios become infinitely complex and thus unusable for most people (we have a ton of templates that are essentially just used by one or two people or that keep amassing cruft).classed heading, which is otherwise an excellent idea, fails on two crucial points here: 1) it uses hn elements, and 2) it tries to deal with multiple lines, i.e. towards an overall header block, rather than just one individual and simple piece of it. Maybe it hits the right balance on that second point, but my starting position is that that violates the simplicity principle (do one job and do it well).But also who has probably given this more thought than I, and has done so with far better computing apparatus than I can bring to bear in the wetware department. Thoughts? I think there are some principles here we might be in actual disagreement on, but other aspects I think maybe are mostly about immediate implementation details ("I needed this, so I threw something together"). Xover (talk) 09:44, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Would something like this be a good start?
 *  —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 10:04, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Xover I've made pseudoheading. If there's anything I can do to help with deprecation/migration, please let me know! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 09:38, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Naming Conventions
Hello,

So, I was originally planning to transclude Index:Great expectations (1861 Volume 1).pdf as part of the MC. However, I felt like this was one of the many cases where I wasn't even sure where to start. First, is this: Wikisource talk:Naming conventions the current standard for attempting to figure out what to call a work? If so, it would really help if these guidelines could be made clearer, and put somewhere prominent, as it is somewhat annoying not feeling like I can even start the transclusion, just because I don't know what to call the main page. And in this example (for Great Expectations), given that the edition isn't explicitly numbered/listed, am I to assume it is the first edition based on google searching "when was the first edition of great expectations written"? Or can I use the year in the title, and on the off chance said work was published twice in the same year, use some other disambiguation then? I feel like this would be so much easier going forward. Second, can someone please move the current transcluded work Great Expectations to whatever name/edition it should have?

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 06:03, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


 * We've had two views on naming, at odds with each other, for some time. One view is to use the standard default title for whatever edition we currently have, regardless of any other considerations.  This leads to situations like the current one, where we now have to move the existing edition to a new name, turn the default name page into a versions page, and change all the links.  The other view (which I hold) is that when we have an edition that is likely to be replaced with an older/better one at some point, start by setting up the versions page and putting the edition under a name suitable for the edition, even though we have only the one edition.


 * In this particular case, the subpage names and internal linking also need to be updated for our existing edition as part of the move, since its using Roman numerals for the chapter numbers. As long as the version is adequately named to avoid confusion, and isn't unnecessarily long or complicated, it's likely OK.


 * The only thing about labelling the copy "first edition" is that it really isn't, since the novel was originally serialized before being published in book form. There were also multiple published book copies in 1861, so this might be the first book edition published, but I would identify it by year and publisher name, rather than edition number. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:44, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * @EncycloPetey Thanks for the detailed answer. However, it seems like yesterday @Chrisguise beat both me, and your response, to the transclusion. In future, I'll stick to year and publisher name if I have any naming doubts. Thanks again, TeysaKarlov (talk) 00:00, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

CSS help for Template:Issue banner
I'm working on modernizing this template, but I'm having trouble with the CSS. Could someone take a look at Template:Issue banner/styles.css and Template:Issue banner/testcases and help me figure out what's going on? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 05:55, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Images, captions, and the spam filter
Hi. I've been editing on this site only for a couple of months, and have just finished the proofreading of the January 6th Report (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Final_Report_of_the_Select_Committee_to_Investigate_the_January_6th_Attack_on_the_United_States_Capitol.pdf). That is the index to go to if you want to help me with my questions.

The first one is on pages 550/551, specifically having to do with the hws/hwe template. In this case it is used on a URL transversing the two pages. For some reason, on page 550, only a tiny bit of a link shows up; on page 551, the rest of the link appears as I would think it look. I'm not sure why the entire first part of the URL is not displayed. If someone could point out my mistake, I'd be appreciative.

The other questions I have deal with images. First, the images themselves and secondly, the captions relating to them. Most of the 'Problematic' pages are simply ones with images that I (and apparently, the writer that did the initial work) did not know how to deal with.

The caption question: while I'm certain the caption text must be included, do I do it as just plain text, or do I try to mimic the caption box AND size of the text? When I looked at the first images in the file, I saw that whomever did them simply included the text. After I did that awhile, I began to include the caption text in a grey box. After a few of these, I adjusted the color of box (matching the color with a color picker), and I also decreased the size of the font in the caption. Nevertheless, I've seen that others have used the next size larger font for each of the caption parts (for example, the photo credit - others have used smaller as the font size, but honestly it looks like it should be x-smaller. See page 535 for the way it seems it 'should' be to me). There may be a bot that takes care of all of this and if so, it's all moot and I won't spend another minute on captions. Any sort of general guidance anyone can provide me?

Image questions now. Yes, I've seen the pages talking about how to add images, but it's confusing (especially the copyright aspect), so I just kept going and marking the pages so someone that KNOWS what they're doing can deal with them.

It was my understanding that this report was in the Public Domain as it was released by the government to the people of the US. Now, I get how some of the images (specifically, those marked "Getty Images") are copyright protected and can't be used outside of the original document without permission. But what about images listed as provided by other US government agencies such as the National Archives and Records Administration (see page 468)? Can I use these?

I know the link where the best quality images are (the link is available in some of the -image removed- templates that were done after I proofread them; see page 463), but even if there are images there that ARE available to us to use, I'm not really sure how to go about what seems like a very involved process regarding the publishing of images.

Finally, is there an 'official' ticketing system for admins to take care of issues for editors? The first time the spam filter bit me, I went to the Admin Noticeboard page to request that the offending URL be added to the whitelist so the work could be finished. Within a day or so, it was taken care of. I've run across several pages since with a different spam filter issue, have asked that it be dealt with - but nothing has been done. I even added more to the request later hoping someone would see it - but nothing yet, and that was weeks ago. Waiting for an Admin to 'run across it' doesn't seem the best way to deal with tasks, but what do I know? I'm sure it's my ignorance that has prevented updating of the whitelist.

Sorry for the length of this query - these questions have been rolling around in my head during the weeks I've been working on this. If anybody does decide to help, thank you for your patience. 09:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC) snafu22q (talk) 09:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC)


 * In answer to the link across two pages: Instead of hws/hwe you need to use lps/lpe. I need to start work, so I'll leave the image questions to others right now. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 16:59, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It looks like lps/lpe were designed for internal links; I've poked around some at OP's referenced pages 550/551 and cannot get them to work with the external URL given. The closest I can get looks pretty good except for (a) the link has brackets around it no matter what I do, and (b) the  in the resultant   has a pipe (|) added to the end (which breaks the link, of course). — Dcsohl (talk) (contribs)   21:42, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Table/chart2 issue
I’ve been looking at Page:The Tale of Genji.pdf/19 for a while, and I can’t seem to get the first table to work. The cells don’t work correctly; I’m not sure of the right way to go about fixing it. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 03:44, 12 March 2023 (UTC)


 * It looks fine to me. What is the issue? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:30, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Justin ( koavf ): Could you save a screenshot? The lines don’t connect on my end. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 06:46, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Browser: Firefox, OS: Debian, go to imgur[period]com/a/xdRhRtS (I can't link due to the spam filter). —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:54, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Justin ( koavf ): The problem is the lines below “The Emperor” and “Prince Momozono” in the top chart2—they don’t connect with the above cell. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:24, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it's fine: this doesn't need to be a photographic reproduction, just a semantic one. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:28, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Block within a footnote
Hi, How to have a block inside a footnote? Page:Gandhi - Young India, Viking Press, 1924-1926.pdf/25 and following pages (footnote on 3 pages). Thanks, Yann (talk) 16:55, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yann: Does this solution look good? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 18:13, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, great! Thanks a lot! Yann (talk) 18:59, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Bad Index link
Re: the index at Index:The Bible, It's True Character and Spiritual Meaning.djvu. When working on any page within this index, the UP ARROW link (to go back to the index) does NOT point back to the index. The UP ARROW should point to https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:The_Bible,_It%27s_True_Character_and_Spiritual_Meaning.djvu but instead points to https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:The_Bible-_Its_True_Character_and_Spiritual_Meaning.djvu. I don't believe I have the rights to make this change, or I would. Thank you. snafu22q (talk) 09:12, 14 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Since the title of the work doesn't contain an apostrophe, it might be simpler to get the index renamed. — Dcsohl (talk) (contribs)  18:48, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, and I assumed as a volunteer, I wouldn't have rights to do that. However, I'm not sure how to make that happen. Is there an admin form I fill out and submit? I've left notes on their noticeboard and frankly, most have been ignored (or overlooked, I suppose). BTW, there's an additional difference in the links ... immediately after 'Bible', one link has a comma, the other a dash.
 * Thanks for your response. snafu22q (talk) 21:26, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Done, see Index:The Bible- Its True Character and Spiritual Meaning.djvu. Mpaa (talk) 21:55, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you snafu22q (talk) 00:55, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Index:An introduction to Indonesian linguistics, being four essays; Renward Brandstetter; 1916; London, Royal Asiatic Society.djvu
This isn't an Index, but there are Page linked to it. Can someone please relocate the pages so the naming is consistent? Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:35, 16 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I thin this is OK now, I moved the file at Commons. Mpaa (talk) 20:51, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Next push on "Structural" LintErrors"
I've been slowly trying to resolve 'content-space' LintErrors..

Would some interested contributors with a few moments please consider look into these Pages linked in a report Below? with unpaired DIV (tags) which are most likely to be from unpaired template usage.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:LintErrors/missing-end-tag?namespace=104&titlecategorysearch=&exactmatch=1&tag=div&template=all

After these are resolved the majority of the remaining 'missing' tags in content namespace are essentially cosmetic formatting (such as unpaired formatting tags for bold, italic and underline.) which whilst nice to remove, are not necessarily that high priority. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:49, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Easy question about priorities
What is more important to Wikisource - that material look as closely as possible to the original source, or bringing technology to old works?

I've been working on this Index:Swedenborg's Doctrine of Correspondence.djvu. Footnotes are fairly sparse, and are referenced with an asterisk or other such symbol. I've been leaving the text as is and placing the footnote in the footer as seen on page 85 of the index—I understood we were to keep the text as close to the source as possible. However, another contributor working elsewhere in the index has used the &lt;ref> tags to mark pages with footnotes, making a clickable superscript where the asterisk existed (see page 86 of the same index).

Either is fine as far as I am concerned, but I just need to know what the powers-that-be at Wikisource want. I don't want to leave problems for others to clean up. Thank you for your time. snafu22q (talk) 07:29, 18 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Snafu22q: We try to find a pragmatic balance. Reproduce the work as originally published, but when the effort required to do so starts to grow too much then find a pragmatic solution. Over the years we have found some particular pain points around hard limitations placed by the software (and other limiting factors). Footnotes is one such: we use the built-in ref tags and do not attempt to reproduce the original footnote markers. The reasoning behind it is a bit longer, but that's the net effect. Xover (talk) 09:13, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you, that's what i needed to know; i'll fix what i screwed up snafu22q (talk) 09:38, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Help:footnotes and endnotes as your guide. Symbols do not work as our transclusion process converts footnotes per page to endnotes per transcluded subpage. — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:16, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Score transclusion (+image)
(After seeing Jan.Kamenicek with an IP from Wikipedia,) I grabbed a copy (here) of the score (the front-page image is still needed) which is otherwise ready for transclusion. Can someone with more knowledge of score figure it out, please? I don’t know the practice for multi-page score items such as this. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:49, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Tables and TOC templates
I'm having trouble figuring out how to use both a TOC and a table to format a specific cast list as this page. Though I'm sure it's possible, I don't know how to get the TOC dot to be compatible in the way it needs to be on that page. Also, this page has the same issue, but the table format is the one I went with on that one.

Thank you, Packer1028 (talk) 07:34, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't bother reproducing the dots and stick with using a table. We're not aiming to make exact reproductions of page layouts and thus dots are not needed in the mainspace for most TOCs and even less so for cast lists. It makes things simpler and frankly gives a more elegant look when reading on smaller screens. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 10:19, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have tried to improved the dashed lines in the second linked page like this. If you do not like it, feel free to revert it.
 * As for the first linked page, I am afraid that some features of tables, such as braces going through several rows, cannot be satisfactorily solved using the TOC row templates The dots can be improved using the template. However, I would try to format it as a common table instead. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 12:15, 19 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Packer1028: Sorry for all the pings. I tried recreating in mixed table/dtpl form, if it looks good to you. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 15:45, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you all for your help! They both look great, and I'm happy to have the page as reference in case future need arises! Packer1028 (talk) 19:50, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Lua runs out of memory - Why?
Executive Order on Establishing the COVID-19 Pandemic Testing Board and Ensuring a Sustainable Public Health Workforce for COVID-19 and Other Biological Threats -

Why is this running out of memory? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:53, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know why, this error comes from the anchor template. Yann (talk) 20:14, 19 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I reverted anchor back to the pre LUA version and Lua still ran out of memory. Further diagnosis needed. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * ordered list might be another culprit. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:31, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Also Module:Anchor should not be doing anything demanding, other than taking arguments and making a list, so I fail to see why it's causing the out of memory issue.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:47, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Match and split: file not found?
Hi, While trying to do a "match and split" on Clerambault, I get a message "djvu not found", although it exists very well here: Index:Rolland - Clerambault, tr. Miller, 1921.djvu. Any idea? Yann (talk) 10:34, 20 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Yann: You were referring to the PDF redirect rather than the DjVu. It should be ready to split now. Xover (talk) 13:41, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Book download links not working
I've tried to download several Wikisource texts (e.g. la:Amores and The Tempest (unsourced)) today in PDF or EPUB form using the links on their pages (e.g. https://ws-export.wmcloud.org/?lang=la&format=epub&page=Amores), and always gotten the same result: the page keeps apparently loading for several minutes (though my computer's Task Manager shows no consistent transfer of data happening) before finally displaying a "504 Gateway Time-out" error. Since I got the same result from several computers, and in both Firefox and Microsoft Edge, this seems likely to be a problem with your site. - LaetusStudiis (talk) 21:05, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Going to https://ws-export.wmcloud.org/ and entering the title and language does work, but the chapter titles are missing from the resulting file. - LaetusStudiis (talk) 22:29, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The download links work today, so whatever the problem was appears to have been fixed. - LaetusStudiis (talk) 03:05, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Law decree move to Wikisource
Hi Folks!! I'm new to wikisource. There has been a discussion at w:en:Talk:Second law on the status of Jews on en WP about moving the the text of a decree into wikisource. It is a translation of a french law decree. It been checked by three native French speakers as being a correct translation. There is the original French decree on Wikisource already. I not sure how that would be linked in. Is that decree in the Englishing language suitable for Wikisource. Thanks.Scope creep (talk) 19:06, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear, SC, when you mean that you're not sure how they would be linked, I think the solution is that you would connect them via a Wikidata item. Also, I amended your link so that it points to en.wp. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:31, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, it can be hosted here as a user translation in the Translation: namespace. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:57, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The article text which a decree, has some wplinks on it. Would they come across as well and would they converted in some way or they need removed? Scope creep (talk) 10:35, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Beeswaxcandle, User:Koavf I've uploaded the "File:Law of 2 June 1941 replacing the law of 3 October 1940 on the status of Jews" as a pdf and created a partial index but for some reason its not taking the page numbers. The index is located here: Index:Law of 2 June 1941 replacing the law of 3 October 1940 on the status of Jews.pdf. Its pages pages 2475 to 2476 of the journal. Is it pages 1 to 3 or 1 to 5. I'm not sure. I'll try it. I've also just noticed, or at least I think its not in the translation namespace.Scope creep (talk) 15:30, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The confusion was over the pages of the original work and how they are numbered versus the pagination of the PDF. Just deleting the content there allowed the index to build normally. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:35, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Koavf I think I might have changed it in the interim? Scope creep (talk) 15:43, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Its saying on the index page "Progress 	Create a pagelist for the source file before commencing proofreading (to verify file is correct)" Scope creep (talk) 15:46, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Changed: https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Index%3ALaw_of_2_June_1941_replacing_the_law_of_3_October_1940_on_the_status_of_Jews.pdf&diff=13107696&oldid=13107634 —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:58, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Koavf Not sure what that does. I see it validated but I notice there 5000 article needing done. Can I get external editors to do the validate, for example the translators, to progress it? Scope creep (talk) 16:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I just changed it via editing the index. There is a dropdown menu for "Progress". —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So it no longer needs validated? Scope creep (talk) 16:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The status is "To be proofread" because the fifth page has not been proofread. After that is done, you can change the Progress to "To be validated". —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:35, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Koavf That is it proofread. Does it need an external editor to validate the pages. Scope creep (talk) 17:16, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Not an external one, just a second person. You cannot both proofread and validate a page. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I just want to step in here - Index:Law of 2 June 1941 replacing the law of 3 October 1940 on the status of Jews.pdf is not the right way to go about this. Wikisource user translations are dynamic documents that anyone can edit, not fixed editions that need to be proofread and validated. What I would normally do is use the original French-language PDF file, and write the translation in place of proofread transcption - for example, see Index:Grande paix de Montréal.djvu. However, if that is too difficult, you can post the translated text directly at Translation:Second law on the status of Jews —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:03, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I am also willing to set up these pages, if you would like me to. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:07, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Beleg Tâl I made an index at Index:Journal officiel de l’État français, Lois et décrets, 14 juin 1941.djvu (frWS already had a scan) and just copied over the translation there. But I'm unfamiliar with the community preferences regarding user translations, so if I've done anything wrong please let me know. Shells-shells (talk) 19:48, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Perfect! Here it is, all finished: Translation:Second law on the status of Jews —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:52, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * user:Beleg Tâl Excellent. That is the desired result. :) Scope creep (talk) 20:30, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Great assistance everyone, and thanks to Scope creep for bringing this here. A couple more things, before this gets stale: Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 18:56, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * user:Beleg Tâl (etc.): Now that the base text is here, could the old index/file/pages be deleted, please? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:45, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:15, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Other similar documents – not sure how Wikisource implements hierarchies of related documents, but given the name "Index:Journal officiel de l’État français, Lois et décrets, 14 juin 1941.djvu", it reminds me that there are other laws from the Vichy era we might want to translate and host here as well. Would we create a higher level "folder" or link page with a name something like, "Journal officiel de l’État français, Lois et décrets", which would then link to the one just created, and provide a central location for linking to other laws of the French State which could be created here? Or what's the right way to create an index to a group of related translations like this?
 * Article annotations and AuxTOC – User:Shakescene had created some brief, helpful annotations at en-wiki for the numbered articles inline, so we had, for example: , , and so on, but as they aren't part of the original French law, they can't go into the translation here in-line. My recollection from a previous translation here, was that Template:AuxTOC would be perfect for these annotations. But I'm not sure if it goes right into the Translation page, or somewhere else? If it's somewhere else, if someone could do just those two and link to it, we can add the other ones. Or, is there a better solution?


 * If there will be multiple "articles" created from the Journal, then the Journal should be a parent page with the various articles as subpages to it. If it gets bigger than a few articles from the same Journal, then an intermediate layer of "issue" or year will be needed for navigation. If you end up dealing with multiple journals, then a Portal is the best solution.
 * Annotations are not permitted here. The text in square brackets you mention is beyond scope. However, navigational aids are okay, which is what AuxTOC is for. In a law this short, there is no real need for such. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:09, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The "Journal" you mention, is the Journal officiel de la République française, analogous to the Congressional Record. This is a bigger topic; see subsection on sourcing the J.O. below. Mathglot (talk) 20:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Notes

Sourcing the Journal Officiel
The "Journal" is the Journal officiel de la République française, which contains every word spoken in the National Assembly since 1789, as well as full text of all proposed laws and amendments; in a word, it's immense, of the order of magnitude of the Congressional Record. (Which seems to be organized by volume/year: Congressional Record.) For the J.O. (the common abbreviation for it; another is 'JORF') maybe we could have a main page called "Journal officiel de la République française", then maybe broken down by time breadcrumbs, and then this translation would go under Journal officiel/1900s/1940s/1941/June/02, or something?

For what it's worth, as far as how s:fr does it, the law we just translated *does* exist at s:fr, at fr:Loi du 2 juin 1941 portant statut des Juifs, and is linked from fr:Livre:Journal officiel de l’État français, Lois et décrets, 14 juin 1941.djvu, but I see no structure above that containing it. There is one attempt at s:fr at a full, top-down hierarchical organization for the entire J.O. at fr:Journal officiel de la République française (JORF), but it appears to be unused, as it's just a big, empty hierarchy with little or no data. Checking their categories, a few dozen J.O. "Livre" ("Book") pages are found at this s:fr Category page (example: fr:Livre:Journal officiel de la République française, Lois et décrets, 7 juin 1997.djvu).

If someone would like to take up a discussion of how best to organize hierarchical or other methods of storing laws published in the J.O., I'll be glad to comment, but we should probably open a separate discussion in a more targeted forum for that. Obviously it would make no sense to try to source the whole J.O. (then again, never say never), but it would be nice to have a structure so that translations of J.O. content of interest, like the Vichy law above, could be slotted into a structure fairly easily without having to reinvent the wheel or come back to the Help page every time. Note that the official French government project Legifrance has the text of every law since 1529 and the full text of the J.O. free of copyright (mostly in facsimile form). Because the content is immense, even learning how to find stuff at Légifrance has a learning curve; I'm the author of several citation-oriented templates targeting Legifrance at en-wiki, as well as a few articles about French law, so I know my way around French legal stuff and could assist with advice about this, if that would help. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 20:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Do you have an example of what kind of hierarchy your looking for Mathglot exactly, or is there something you could point to on Wikisource already that could be used as an example? Scope creep (talk) 11:19, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

How to remove borders from family tree
So I've started transcribing a family tree at Page:A Dictionary of Music and Musicians vol 4.djvu/305. I've used Tree chart. I'm not sure how to remove the borders from the boxes of the names in the family tree. Any help would be appreciated! Matr1x-101 (talk) 19:49, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Matr1x-101: I would recommend switching to chart2. The two are fairly similar (although there is slightly different formatting in chart2), but chart2 doesn’t automatically box stuff. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 20:06, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, I've switched it to chart2. Matr1x-101 (talk) 21:21, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

page list for: Bulandshahr: Or, Sketches of an Indian District: Social, Historical and Architectural
Just found that I did not name the index page properly. Name should be: Index:Bulandshahr: Or, Sketches of an Indian District: Social, Historical and Architectural.djvu. instead of Index:Bulandshahrorsk00growgoog.djvu. Stamlou (talk) 11:51, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I've marked the wrong index with the sdelete notice, which is what I do when I've accidentally created the wrong index page. Should be quickly deleted. Best of luck with your project.
 * Sincerely, Packer1028 (talk) 06:37, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Replacing old works with ProofreadPage?
I'm in the midst of reading Six Months at the White House and have noticed several typos or possible typos in it. I've gone and looked at the original source, but I feel like it would be easier to create an index page with the scans, correct it that way, and import the pages into the previously-made pages. HOWEVER, this is a legacy work created in Wikisource's early years, and is noteworthy as having one of its chapters be the 100,000th text-unit on the site (which is how I heard about this work in the first place). If there is a policy against retroactively using ProofreadPage and importing for works transcribed before that was standard, I do not want to violate this policy, or step on anyone's toes even if it's not against any official policy. Would appreciate some guidance. (Also, I do already have .djvu scans for the work, if that matters.)

Thanks, Packer1028 (talk) 06:31, 3 April 2023 (UTC)


 * @Packer1028: In terms og archaeology you shouldn't fret this. The "100k" honour is extremely ad hoc and dubious (it counted the hundred thousandth mainspace wikipage, not the ditto actual work), and former plaudits are no reason not to keep improve our content. And, in fact, from this perspective your proposed approach is conservative: by overwriting the extant pages you would be preserving their revision history and the contributions of those that came before.However, a bigger issue is the technical. Is the text we do have and your text actually the same edition of this work? Perhaps the typos you see are merely differences between editions (they could still be typos, but then typos as published)? The pages in mainspace are connected to a Wikidata item that describes that edition, and if we silently change the content of those pages the Wikidata item will lie about which edition it is.If you are sure the extant and new texts are the exact same edition then you should just go ahead and replace it with transclusions from the scan. Otherwise, a much cleaner approach would be to complete the new transcription, transclude it to new mainspace pages (suitably disambiguated), and then either keep both in parallel with a versions page or delete the old text and move the new into its place. Xover (talk) 08:35, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The three typos I've found so far are either (1) true typos, like "rhe" and "out" instead of "the" and "our," or (2) double hyphens instead of em-dashes, both of which are mistakes when compared to the manuscript cited as the basis for SMATWH.
 * It turns out the one I had is the 1868 edition, but I was able to find the 1872 version used for the transcription. Will upload shortly and begin the transcription. Thanks for your help @Xover. Packer1028 (talk) 09:51, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Packer1028 you may find this useful: Help:Match and split —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:15, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, indeed. D'oh! But note that it and most other Tpolforge tools are probably down or flaky today due to some infrastructure maintenance. Should be back up tomorrow, unless something needs manual kicking. Xover (talk) 13:18, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Elliot's Debates
I have completed the first proofread, format, transclusion, and chapter consolidations of Elliot's Debates (vols. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5).

In the first three volumes, I made some rookie editor mistakes (in particular sizing down each paragraph instead of using block tags in the header and footer). I potentially also made some in volume 4, but I think vol. 5 is well-formatted. Since I can't green the pages I've proofread, I would encourage everyone to pick a volume and pages, and dive in! Just be on the lookout for my rookie errors.

As for me, I'm a little burnt out/crispy after finishing all this, so I'm taking some well-deserved time off from Wiki in general. I'll likely be back soon working on Story's Commentaries. Foofighter20x (talk) 14:04, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Tikunei Zohar 30
IS this available in english? 2601:189:4181:26D0:8CDC:DF9E:DF4:428 15:15, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Not here, no. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:18, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

How to transclude pages out of order
What is the best way to transclude pages out of order? Can this be done with ? Help:Transclusion does not seem to provide any hints and the closest I have been able to come up with is some something like:. However, although that does transclude all three pages, it seems to automatically reorder them in page order provided in the index/scan file.

I then tried:. And that does transclude all the pages in the right order but the content does not merge across pages properly (sentences that cross page breaks have apparent paragraph breaks that I do not want).

I am asking this because it seems like this edition misprinted the "Preface" pages out of order. At first I thought perhaps it was a scan error but I found another scan of a different print of the same edition with the exact same issue so now I am assuming it is more or a printing issue then a scanning issue. For reference see (there are different post-printing artifacts on the prints like library cards and handwritten notes but the "Preface" pages are in the same erroneous order):

Currently my workaround at One of a Thousand/Preface is:. Notice I intentionally "numbered" the pages out of order here and in the Index for this very reason. And yes, I manually transcribed all that handwritten text.

Thank you, —Uzume (talk) 01:22, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not think there is a better solution than yours, unless we reorder the pages in the scan. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:10, 26 April 2023 (UTC)


 * My comment would be that we should be looking at the ProofreadPage transclusion issue as that should not be introducing the paragraph breaks, and who knows whether it is PrP or MW doing that. I would suggest a ticket against the extension with doing examples in a sandbox and provide the diffs with the ticket. — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:18, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Billinghurst: I am not sure that is really an issue as per se. It only happens when one makes multiple back-to-back  extension tags. When put in a single such tag there are no such paragraph breaks. I am sure the extension is just putting the output of the tag into some sort of block element that causing the apparent paragraph breaks. However, even when I specify the pages out of order in   with a single such extension tag, the pages come out sorted and not in the given order. That seems like the bigger issue to me and what should be fixed IMHO (but there might be more going on there than I fully understand). —Uzume (talk) 00:19, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * &lt;pages> just grabs the pages in the sequence, not the sequence itself, that is the nature of the include tag when it was introduced. We used to be able to string &lt;pages> together without them picking up extrapolated mediawiki code, so there has been that change in the MW interpreters at some point. Noting that while we try to avoid the use of Page, not ban its use. In the end, the answer is always "present the book as the author intended", and not as the publisher may have mistakenly done. Just when you do it, note it. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:12, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Billinghurst: I am not sure what is the best method for noting such but I did put an HTML comment into the wikitext source of One of a Thousand/Preface (where I currently transcluding via Page to workaround this issue). —Uzume (talk) 03:01, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Put such information in the notes field of the header template. "These pages that were printed out of order have here been reordered for reader convenience" or "In this text, footnotes have been converted to endnotes" would both be sensible things to put there. Alternately, some issues it would be more natural to note on the talk page, possibly because it is of more interest to other contributors than to readers. Xover (talk) 05:30, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Xover: I really do not think this is of interest to readers but only to contributors. I think something on the talk page should be enough but which talk page? I assume the "Index talk" since that too is of little interest to readers normally. Possibly this might be more interesting to research readers (interested in potential issues with the original printings) so perhaps the main Talk page (I have seen discussion about source information there in such places). What do you think? —Uzume (talk) 10:16, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd say the mainspace talk page. Xover (talk) 13:52, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That is what I was afraid of and does not bode well for  replacing Page.
 * That said, I wonder if the right thing is to reorder the pages in the Commons file. I recently came upon another (Google) scan (which definitely has issues) of what seems to be yet another print but the "Preface" pages are in the right order. I wonder if this is a slightly different edition or if both the other scans had the exact same issue (which would be highly unusual). It also has some other differences that make me think this might be a slightly different edition (perhaps where the earlier printing issue was corrected). I added it to the earlier gallery for reference. —Uzume (talk) 00:09, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I just thought of another potential solution though it might be a tad ugly. The idea is to create another manual Index for just those pages and then use  from that. Currently there is Index:One of a thousand.djvu and I could create a "sub-index" at Index:One of a thousand.djvu/Preface that contains a "Pages" section like:   and then I could use  . At least I think that would work. I have not actually tried that. I wonder if I could also use multiple   tags to accomplish a page reordering in the original Index. I might have to try that. —Uzume (talk) 02:00, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Strangely, defining the pages out of order in the index did not resolve the issue. Apparently the extension does something special for bundled media indexes and reorders the pages to match the bundle regardless how the "Pages" section of the Index is defined. —Uzume (talk) 02:54, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The pagelist tag in the Index: namespace mainly just creates a mapping, it doesn't "define pages". The issue here is that Proofread Page, when fed a page sequence, numerically sorts the sequence before interpreting it. 99.9% of the time that would be correct, but it prevents solving this issue. Getting it fixed is going to be a bit of a challenge, in addition to there being no dedicated development resources for PRP, because we'd need to first patch in a tracking category to see if there are existing uses that a change would break and then figure out what to do about any that are found.For this particular case I would suggest manipulating the source file instead. It doesn't sound like this is a famous first edition with a notorious out-of-order page, so fixing it should surprise or mislead no one. Xover (talk) 05:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, and definitely definitely don't start messing with multiple indexes: that way lies madness! Xover (talk) 05:41, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Xover: Well I am not sure about the Index not defining pages. It seems to certainly be true that pages are not defined by them for bundled media but the Index does seem to define pages for unbundled media. I realize  is mostly just a fancy/convenient Page link generator that is used primarily for collecting link labels used in defining a mapping of page numbers.
 * As for PrP development, I have considered working on it anyway. However, as you mention its usage is difficult to grasps and measure and changes of this sort should be considered fragile. For example, not only would one want to create tracking of some sort but then one would want to investigate the results of such tracking—across all potential usages including where PrP is used on multiple Wikisource sites (across all the languages), etc. That complicates such matters and is one of the reasons why there is such a development backlog at the project Workboard. —Uzume (talk) 11:05, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Uzume: More people working on PRP itself would be very welcome. There's lots of backlog and lots of low-hanging fruit. Let me know if you need pointers to people who can help onboard you (which is most definitely not me). Xover (talk) 13:55, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Xover: Yes, onboarding pointers would be good.
 * For example, it seems to me, the pagelist tag should be able to use the same page selection criteria as the pages tag, e.g.,, , etc. but for now it only seems supports  and
 * My current issue is not coding so much as wanting to have a good test environment to run MW with extensions in, etc. for test builds, etc. So I have been remiss to work on much and provide patches in gerrit (we all make mistakes but without a good means to unit test changes the chances increase exponentially). —Uzume (talk) 14:14, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Uzume: People to talk to are, , and . has also done some work there but they are busy IRL currently. You may also want to try to catch the Wikisource Community Meeting where some relevant issues are discussed.Regarding development and test environments I believe there are some semi-decent packaged options for those but I'm not familiar with them (one of the reasons I don't touch it myself). There is also Beta Wikisource and Patch Demo. For communicating with all the projects (e.g. for potentially breaking changes etc.) there is a MassMessage list for the Wikisourcen, but I've never tracked down how to use it. Xover (talk) 14:52, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Xover: I am familiar with the beta cluster (though I haven't dealt with WS there much) but Patch Demo seems interesting. The meeting was a bit more than two days ago so I shall have to wait for next month (so far unscheduled; I am not thrilled with the timeframe which is 1AM for me). Thank you for the pointers, —Uzume (talk) 17:28, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * In the context of getting a development environment setup for Extension:ProofreadPage, I'd suggest using Mediawiki-Docker. Wrt to the actual installation and setup of ProofreadPage there is a guide that I created a few years back for Google Summer of Code students that details how to quickly setup ProofreadPage on Mediawiki-Docker at https://github.com/sohomdatta1/mediawiki-scripts/blob/master/ProofreadPage.md Sohom Datta (talk) 11:29, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, any and all development help is appreciated :) Sohom Datta (talk) 11:30, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I already realized, though it was a useful mind experiment, multiple Index pages over (parts of) the exact same media was likely not a particularly useful endeavor. —Uzume (talk) 11:05, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

how to add a new book
how to add a new book in this website Advocate marshallow (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you have a specific question that wasn't answered by the link at the top of this page to Help pages and FAQs? --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:15, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Trying to find a source I was reading, but no longer have a search history
Hi all, I was re-looking for a piece of sci-fi work, a short story where New York City is flooded. From what I remember it is based around a man's business which his daughter helps run, using small boats to get around what is left of the city. I believe the work was published in the late 1800s (although my memory is struggling with this and I could be wrong with the publishing time frame).

For the life of me I cannot find this again, having searched through my history and computer's history.

Is there anywhere I can ask wikisource for help locate this short story? I am not sure if this is the best place, so happy to move my request on elsewhere if so. Jamzze (talk) 16:36, 7 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I found it! Please disregard. Jamzze (talk) 05:24, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jamzze: Now I'm curious. What was it? :) Xover (talk) 05:59, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It was called "Wetter New York" :D Jamzze (talk) 12:48, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm intrigued as well. Was it public domain now? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Offences Against the Person Ordinance: Strange situation
Back to 2020, I transcribed the Offences Against the Person Ordinance at Index:Offences Against the Person Ordinance (4 of 1805).pdf. The source file was later renamed as File:Offences Against the Person Ordinance (4 of 1865).pdf, so when I clicked into the source link at the text's upper left hand side, it directs me and created the empty index of Index:Offences Against the Person Ordinance (4 of 1865).pdf. I'd like to ask is there any method to unify the two indices? Many thanks.廣九直通車 (talk) 07:13, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * 廣九直通車: The general solution is to move the index (and all of the pages) to the new name. As you already created the new index, I moved the pages over, nominated the old index for speedy deletion, and updated the transclusion. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 03:16, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * You left redirects for all of the moved pages. Could you please tag them all with "speedy" too?  It will make it much easier to delete them than trying to navigate to the individual redirects.  When moving pages to a new Index, we don't want to keep redirects for all the moved pages. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:25, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Deleted. You can use Special:PrefixIndex/Page:Offences Against the Person Ordinance (4 of 1805).pdf/ to get at the pages without having to go click on each one. Xover (talk) 05:26, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * And use Special:Massdelete to clean them out (and yes it will show as a red link, though works if gadget in place). — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:34, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Script/Gadget request.
Special:LintErrors Can filter by namespace. It cannot currently filter by Page:status. As such a filter would be specific to a Wikisource workflow (andto the proofread-page content model), it seems more sensible that a display filter is implemented locally.

This request is made so that in looking for LintErrors to repair on a more casual basis, I and other contributors can focus repair efforts on previously validated (or proofread )pages which are not necessarily going to be looked at in depth again, as opposed to non-proofread pages, or raw OCR dumps which make up the vast majority of the Page: entries under a given Lint category.

Would it be possible to have a Gadget or user script which places a suitably shaded border around the relevant table cells reflecting the 'page-status' of those entries?

As an aside, it would also be useful but not essential if there was a more visible way to see if:
 * a given LintError was on a page that was transcluded elsewhere. (Higher priority for repair)
 * a given LintError was within a  portion of the page listed. (Lower priority for repair)

This could also be implemented using a user script or Gadget. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:17, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * please give an example of the sort of problem that we are facing. I would have thought that only proofread, validated and problematic pages would have code on them in the Page: ns. Or at least code that to have been entered by a user. Other non-proofread pages would be less likely to contain problematic code. FYI if you are using AWB, then you can run a pre-parse to flick out the irrelevant pages. Similarly you can even do a regex skip phrase if you don't wish to pre-parse. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:27, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the AWB hint. I was currently using PyWikibot to generate lists of pages by quality, but this isn't ideal.
 * ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 05:34, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sadly that's not so, as I've found. Quite a lot of "Not Proofread" pages contain various relevant kinds of code (wikimarkup, templates, etc.). One of the reasons we, IMO, should not permit bulk-creation of such pages that nobody actually plans to work on (we currently have 1,051,224 of them, and the number is not going down: it's been steadily increasing, both in absolute terms and as a proportion of our total Page: namespace pages). Xover (talk) 05:48, 9 May 2023 (UTC)


 * In respect of my latter points -
 * An example of a page with a Lionterror in a Noninclude : Page:Blackwood's Magazine volume 006.djvu/78 The lint error here is in the call to the running header (mis-paired italics), which is the most typical situation where this happens.
 * An example of a page with a Linterror which is transcluded: Page:Second Geological Survey of Pennsylvania Report of Progress PPP.djvu/20 The linterror is only detected for the Page:,  not the transclusion to mainspace at : Second Geological Survey of Pennsylvania. Report of Progress/PPP/Ceratiocaridae from the Chemung and Waverly groups of Pennsylvania
 * Most of the remaining Linterrors in Page: namespace are either mis-paired formatting, or unmatched tags as I made an effort to try and 'repair' most of the 'sturctural' errors ( DIV, OL, UL and TABLE related tags.) a couple of months ago.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 06:16, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I was concentrating current repair efforts on 'validated' pages and have managed to slowly reduce 2000 or so down to 200 validated pages with LintErrors remaining, which is a moderate improvement.


 * The results I was getting using pywikibot https://public-paws.wmcloud.org/User:ShakespeareFan00/missing.ipynb
 * https://public-paws.wmcloud.org/User:ShakespeareFan00/ns104-0missing.txt - Page quality:0 (11 pages)
 * https://public-paws.wmcloud.org/User:ShakespeareFan00/ns104-2missing.txt - page quality:2 (410 pages)
 * https://public-paws.wmcloud.org/User:ShakespeareFan00/ns104-3missing.txt - page quality:3 (which sometimes fails to generate, but was about 10,000 pages at one point.)
 * https://hub-paws.wmcloud.org/user/ShakespeareFan00/lab/tree/ns104missing.txt - Page quality:4 (302 pages)
 * ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 06:16, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Broken linkages...
Index:The Genealogy of Morals.djvu The pages on this seem such as Page:The Genealogy of Morals.djvu/25 seem to want to go to a different Index. The file seems to have been renamed on commons. This should be repaired. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:53, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * ShakespeareFan00: It should be fixed now. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:04, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Minor Spacings
On Page:Julius Caesar (1919) Yale.djvu/21, there are a number of spacing details such as spaces before punctuation marks, line 128’s Y under the i, and the space after the stage direction Shout. How should I render these? Should I render these? Aaron Liu (talk) 15:45, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * First: dramatic works are far more complicated to format than other works, and this volume is part of a series, where standard formatting has been applied.


 * We don't try to align individual letters under the same alignment as the original. And we don't preserve double-spacing after periods, and we don't justify text, so alignment from one line to the next will not be the same in an electronic copy as a printed copy.  We also cannot control for the possibility that the reader will choose a different font or display size that what we've used, and changing the font or display size can also change alignment.


 * From what I can see, the page was correctly rendered according to the style set for the series. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:19, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Heads up that spaces before punctuation are removed here. See #7: Style_guide. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:20, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That depends on the kind of punctuation, and what precedes the space. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:22, 12 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I've corrected the indentation structure. The line indents have to be coordinated from page to page.  Simply placing gap into the page will look fine in the Page namespace, but won't look right in the Mainspace because there is a dent/s structure.  Adding the gap will create a double-deep indentation. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Refreshing a category
I added EB1 to, but it's not showing up on the category page. I thought a null edit was supposed to refresh it, but it doesn't seem to do anything. How do I get the category to refresh? Bloated Dummy (talk) 20:31, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It shows up there now. You needed to refresh both the Doc page and the Template page. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:57, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

How can I export the version up to date?
I checked the option of "Bypass all caching (slower but useful for debugging)" of Wikisource Book Export, but it didn't work either. Shenyileirob (talk) 06:50, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Book export is not a tool that we utilise, a legacy tool that exists. Please use the download links in the "download/print" section which is our versatile, crafted tool. — billinghurst  sDrewth  21:59, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * But only single page download is supported there, and formats are limited. Exporting the whole book as plain text is what I need. Shenyileirob (talk) 06:06, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Please can you point to the work that you are trying to download. If you are in the root page for the work then all pages should be available. It may be that someone has not set up the work properly, as there is the need to follow certain protocols to get things working. Noting for a plain text version that you will need to follow the link to "other formats". From https://ws-export.wmcloud.org/ you can start from first principles and pick your way to a solution. — billinghurst  sDrewth  10:47, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

IP address blocked
Hi there!

I'm supporting a new user with first steps, but we haven't being able to navigate IP blocking. I'm new at en.sikisource, but a long term editor in other projects. That said, I acknowledge that I'm not familiar with the IP blocking policies here. The user I'm supporting is absolutely new in wiki platforms. This is the user: @Ecwkecwk and the blocking notification says: "The block was made by Abuse filter". Any advise about how to proceed? The user is doing the edits in good faith, from a home connection, without using any VPN.

Thanks so much! Señoritaleona (talk) 15:50, 22 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Jan.Kamenicek: Ping. Xover (talk) 17:47, 22 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I noticed the problem shortly after it had appeared. I corrected the filter immediately and wrote a message about it to the user’s talk page at the same time. As far as I can see, the user has not been blocked by the filter since. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:17, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikisource won't accept my contribution
I want to replace the whole text on the following page: https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/%C3%8Ent%C3%A2mpl%C4%83ri_%C3%AEn_irealitatea_imediat%C4%83. But the wikisource won't accept my contribution for some reasons. There are too many modifications needed, which is why I just want replace the whole content of the page. User02504 (talk) 06:44, 21 May 2023 (UTC)


 * My action is automatically identified as vandalism, though it is not. User02504 (talk) 08:21, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * This is English Wikisource, while the page you want to edit is in Romanian Wikisource, and so we cannot help you in any way here. You may try to contact one of the administrators listed in https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Administratori . --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:10, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * BTW: Now I have noticed that our edit filter blocked you when you were trying to add some Romanian text to a page here, in English Wikisource, which really is not possible. Maybe this is the problem: instead of editing the Romanian Wikisource page which you linked above you tried to add the text to English Wikisource. So I also suggest you make sure which Wikisource you are editing. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:19, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

This is English Wikisource, the Romanian Wikisource is a different wiki and not one that is within our control. RoWS have their own admins and processes and these are filters that the roWS wiki have set. It looks as though your changes are seen as vandalism, so maybe try a smaller set of edits to replace the text. I have popped over to your roWS user talk page and left you and that wiki's admins know. — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:41, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Portal navbox templates not showing on mobile views
I started making some nav box templates for US state portals, like Portal:Arkansas, that are present on the bottom of the page in a See also section. The templates there currently are Template:United States and Template:Counties of Arkansas, to use this one portal as an example. The templates are all at the core based on Template:Navbox.

But, when I use the mobile view of the portal page, if the screen size is smaller than a certain number (such as the size of most smartphones), the navboxes do not show up. Does anybody know how this might be able to be fixed? Is it a problem with the media queries or something? PS: None of the navboxes on Wikipedia appear to work on mobile at all, on any screen size, so I guess we're one step ahead of them already... PseudoSkull (talk) 20:35, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Going down to county level as a standard is overkill for us, we simply don't have the volume of works, especially not at the specificity. Going down to state level should be suitable in the portal space. Maybe categorise at that point. The one thing to check for the noprint issue is whether there is an exclusion in Mediawiki:mobile.css that does a noprint for some class in the template. My memory of how it all works is foggy. — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:38, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @PseudoSkull: Navboxes generally do not work well on narrow screens like on mobile, so the hiding is deliberate. The context for the decision is English Wikipedia (we import the code from them) and navboxes in articles, which is slightly different than our typical uses, but the general rule of thumb holds. Xover (talk) 05:40, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * On Portal:United States it seems you've placed the nav template ahead of the list of links. Standard format is to place navboxes last.  Placing it where you have makes it look like a formatting error. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:43, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Footer gets appended to the last paragraph
I'm trying to add the page number to the footer in Page:Weird Tales v01n04 (1923-06).djvu/65, but no matter what I do, the number gets appended to the last paragraph instead of being on its own line. How do I make this work? Bloated Dummy (talk) 18:19, 1 May 2023 (UTC)


 * It only appears that way in the Page namespace. Once it's transcluded into the main namespace, it will not appear that way. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:21, 1 May 2023 (UTC)


 * This is one of the few places where the left template is useful. I have corrected the issue by applying that template in the footer. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:36, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll make a mental note of that. Bloated Dummy (talk) 06:47, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Images in Final Report of the Select Committee
Hello,

I realise that this question may have been partially asked before, but I was hoping for a more concrete answer, if someone has it. Specifically, under the copyright tag relating to a work of the "United States federal government", how are images from the following sources handled

a) Getty - currently removed, with links for non-free content

b) House Creative Services - have been transcluded as work of the federal governement

c) National Archives and Records Administration - missing image tags, or occasionally included, e.g. Page:Final Report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol.pdf/608 - a quick check (on the other wiki) suggests they are an independent federal agency, but I am not sure what that means PD wise

d) Unsourced images - some have been included so far, e.g. Page:Final Report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol.pdf/662, Page:Final Report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol.pdf/631 and Page:Final Report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol.pdf/524 being various examples, but also not sure if this is okay

Any advice appreciated, as it would be nice to get this transclusion completed.

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 22:04, 5 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @TeysaKarlov: Because the government has different ways to include third-party material in their works than we do, if a government report like this contains any third-party material every instance of it has to be evaluated individually (including text excerpts!).Getty is non-free and must be redacted, and House Creative Services is probably uniformly PD-USGov.
 * Images from the NARA are not necessarily PD: a lot of it is PD by nature of coming from the federal government, but they can also host stuff that is not PD. So I think the yardstick to assess it with is: if it comes from NARA, looks like it was created by a federal employee, and there's no indication otherwise… it's reasonable to assume it's PD without hard evidence this is the case. e.g. /608 it seems unlikely that any non-government employee would be able to photograph POTUS inside the Oval Office in this setting. There are no journalists present that I can see in the image, and the Oval Office is not an area generally available to the public, and neither the caption or other such datum make any suggestion this could be a third party photo.Everything else though… For unsourced images (i.e. not via NARA) we cannot just assume PD because it looks plausible and there's no explicit contrary information. For these we need to do actual research to identify the creator and its copyright status. /662 for example, does not look plausible as a government-created photo. /631 does, but there are also numerous plausible scenarios where the photo is taken by a third party (a journo with a White House pass, say). And /524 looks like straight up copyvio of the Washington Examiner's photo, and possibly their lede. The text of this tweet is probably fine as the author is POTUS (so PD-USGov), but other tweets have independent copyright unless demonstrably covered by a similar exception or explicit free licensing. Xover (talk) 06:56, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Xover. First, thanks for the response. For the NARA images, I'll check each one. For the unsourced images, I don't intend to do any research into the individual photos, and will see about switching them to redacted (is there a guide to how this is done somewhere?), or put missing image tags.
 * As to what you said about text excerpts, does e.g. comments from the far-right extremists, Page:Final Report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol.pdf/537 (and many others in that chapter) count as third party material, and have to be redacted, or is it okay because it is from a court case (e.g. refererence at the end of Page:Final Report of the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol.pdf/576 and start of the next)?
 * Thanks again, TeysaKarlov (talk) 22:34, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Book won't download
I have high security on my desktop but I've always been able to download books here before. Today, when I clicked download - nothing happens. I closed out my browser, cleared the cache & cookies, made sure it was accepting wiki scripts. Still nothing. I'd really like to download the Japanese Gardens books. Any advice? 68.134.144.129 15:42, 21 May 2023 (UTC)


 * What format are you trying to download it in? --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:06, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Also worth giving a link to the work that is problematic for you, otherwise we are doing generic testing rather than like-for-like testing. — billinghurst  sDrewth  21:56, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Japanese_Gardens 68.134.144.129 21:06, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * .mobi 68.134.144.129 21:06, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

This is STILL broken, can someone please reboot ws-export.wmcloud.org which returns nothing at the moment. Thanks!
 * This is working perfectly for me in Chrome for mobi, pdf and epub; fine in Edge for html. Can you reach https://ws-export.wmcloud.org/?lang=en&title=Japanese_Gardens ? — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:31, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The IP 68.134.123.162 tried to add the following text but was stopped by an edit filter (I have refined it now, but will have to revise it more thoroughly):
 * I only use Mozilla Firefox or Tor and have for years. I tried your link. It just times out and delivers nothing. But again, I've had no problem with wiki book downloads before now using these browswers ... 
 * I am unwilling to use Chrome or other insecure browsers.
 * Text copied here by --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:26, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Changes in the past week, affect the Page namespace.
Specifically, the page images are no longer displayed.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 09:34, 28 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Ineuw: There's no code change I'm aware of that would stop displaying the page images. However there is an ongoing problem with loading page images (the image file itself) that I suspect is an infrastructure issue (think "broken server"). Could that explain the symptoms you're seeing? Xover (talk) 11:30, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That is the symptom for sure. Just didn't want to cry wolf. &#32;— ineuw (talk) 18:05, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Page:Brinkley - Japan - Volume 7.djvu/472
It seems that plainlist doesn’t like numbers. Can someone fix this? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 02:09, 3 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @TE(æ)A,ea., fixed. Index:Brinkley - Japan - Volume 7.djvu/styles.css —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 06:12, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Joining footnotes that are split in the middle of the word
In the work I'm transcribing, there are several footnotes that were originally split across two pages in the middle of the word. E.g. in footnote 12, the first page ended with "counter-", and the second page started with "acting". When this happens in the main text of the page, Wikisource stitches the word together nicely, but in the footnote I just get "counter- acting". Is there a way to tell Wikisource to remove the dash and space there? Bloated Dummy (talk) 21:19, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Bloated Dummy: This is one of the few cases where you need hws/hwe. Xover (talk) 21:27, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that works.
 * There's also an issue in footnote 17, where the page break creates an unwanted space after an em-dash. Should I use hws/hwe to work around that too, or is there any better way? Bloated Dummy (talk) 01:00, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bloated Dummy: For that, you want page end hyphen. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 06:05, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Would that work in a footnote, though? I thought hyphen removal didn't work in footnotes (hence my original issue). Bloated Dummy (talk) 09:44, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bloated Dummy: Easiest way to find out is to try it. But I just checked and due to weirdnesses of the MediaWiki parser stack, content of references (that are provided by mw:Extension:Cite) does not support the features provided by mw:Extension:Proofread Page. So for now you'll have to fake it using hws/hwe. Not particularly elegant, but it's the best we have just now. Xover (talk) 10:19, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I figured. Oh well. Bloated Dummy (talk) 11:51, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * For that, I would do and . TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:06, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Joining an end of page hyphenated word in the previous page is accepted as well. No template is required. The appearance in the main namespace, is what matters. Not the page namespace.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 16:11, 4 June 2023 (UTC)


 * x}}

Problems with Google OCR
I have been using Google OCR in transcribing texts for a long time, but it has bugged me recently. Often after loading for a while it shows " undefined undefined", and I have to reload it for many times before it can correctly identify the text. In some cases I have to click the OCR button for over 10 times, which is quite frustrating. Like to ask can someone look into the problem and report it somewhere (I remember WMF has a centralized website for reporting bugs)? Many thanks.廣九直通車 (talk) 09:53, 3 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @廣九直通車: That Gadget is obsolete and effectively unsupported (it'll removed eventually). Use the built-in "Transcribe" button (over to the right, above the page image) instead. It uses a different Google API, and also supports a Tesseract-based OCR engine, plus has an advanced interface for special cases. Xover (talk) 10:10, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. For some reasons when I'm using the new Google OCR gadget, it sometimes return "". Like to ask what's this problem?廣九直通車 (talk) 10:58, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @廣九直通車: Hmm. That's probably due to some ongoing problems with multimedia files. I think error message is literally correct: Google's OCR service tried to load the page image from Commons but Commons either timed out or returned an error. You'll probably notice this when loading the page image in the Page: namespace (slower than usual, or failing to load). It's somewhat dependent on where in the world you are (thus which of the WMFs data centers handles your request), and European users are most affected. This, incidentally, may also be the same root cause for the old Gadget failing. Xover (talk) 11:20, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Just jumping in. In my experience this problem should be mentioned/reported at phabricator. You will get up to date info on the status of the various OCR tools. In addition, the image servers are still experiencing problems which I assume aggravates the problem.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 13:58, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and it seems that other OCR tools in general also have the same problem. I tried Tesseract and Transkribus, and they return these errors (BTW I'm currently in Hong Kong):
 * And BTW it seems that we have 2 related Phabricator tickets: see T332125 and T337495.廣九直通車 (talk) 10:01, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @廣九直通車: Those tickets may be related, but I think they're probably a separate issue. HTTP status 429 for thumbnails from multi-page media (DjVu, PDF) is a media stack problem unrelated to the OCR tools that just happens to also affect them (in addition to affecting everything else that uses such thumbnails). Xover (talk) 10:08, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * And BTW it seems that we have 2 related Phabricator tickets: see T332125 and T337495.廣九直通車 (talk) 10:01, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @廣九直通車: Those tickets may be related, but I think they're probably a separate issue. HTTP status 429 for thumbnails from multi-page media (DjVu, PDF) is a media stack problem unrelated to the OCR tools that just happens to also affect them (in addition to affecting everything else that uses such thumbnails). Xover (talk) 10:08, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

I encourage you to create another ticket. It's additional info that may help. &#32;— ineuw (talk) 12:49, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Bug report created in, FYI.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:58, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * And apparently there's an earlier report in . Phabricator link changed.廣九直通車 (talk) 11:28, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Transcribing data in documents?
I'm looking at possible transcription solutions for our government's historical weather records that are scanned but not transcribed. I understand that Wikisource primarily deals with documents with text but it's unclear to me if you guys will also transcribe documents that are predominantly data (numbers). Copyright is likely not a problem as they are just numbers and likely in public domain. Thanks. OhanaUnited  Talk page  16:20, 7 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @OhanaUnited: Just data is out of scope for Wikisource (we only include it for e.g. a report where the data is an appendix). So for this you'll probably want to investigate Wikidata, or possibly structured data at Commons. Wikidata's bread and butter is a bit more akin to bibliographic data and similar, so for "raw" data like this it may be more appropriate to host it at Commons. I am not aware that we have any very similar examples anywhere in the Wikimedia universe, so it's hard to say very definitively if and where would be a good fit. Xover (talk) 18:40, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If they're scanned from paper, the likelihood increases that they'll be in scope. But we would not transcribing the data itself for its own sake at that point, but the documents on which that data manifests. As someone very uninformed (but my interest is piqued), where are these scans located online? PseudoSkull (talk) 23:03, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * By "our country" do you mean Canada, where your user page on Wikipedia says you hail from? I was initially thinking US, but check very carefully on the copyright laws in Canada regarding their official government documents. If there are weather documents from before 1928, those can be hosted here regardless. PseudoSkull (talk) 23:06, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Xover, @PseudoSkull Thanks for your replies. I probably should have provided an example from the get-go. An example of the forms we have are on page 8 of this PDF presentation. The forms have been scanned and stored in a secure server but there's no way to further digitalize them into usable elements. (Yes I'm aware of Zooniverse but it is unclear to us what is the ownership and license for data digitalized through their platform). The data itself is more useful than the text, hence I asked the original question. OhanaUnited  Talk page  17:32, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @OhanaUnited: Your first step should probably be to bulk-upload the scans to Commons in an orderly fashion (but do ask for guidance at their village pump regarding naming schema, categorization, information templates, double-check copyright, etc.). That'll be an extra insurance / backup; make it available to a wider audience; and makes it easier to refer people to concrete examples (and "people" may know of better solutions than I can come up with here).But based on your latest message it sounds like your main concern is not actually somewhere to host / make available the transcribed data, but rather the tooling to do the transcribing itself and possibly in a way that the work can be crowdsourced. Is that correct?If the forms are fairly standardised and the possible values constrained, I think you'll probably be better off looking to write a custom web application for this. That way you can have validation on the input, store the data in structured and queryable form, etc. And already structured data can easily be mirrored to Wikidata/Commons if appropriate.You certainly can do this using Proofread Page, but any sane way to do it will involve some amount of custom development, at which point you could equally well make that custom web app. Or, if you're going that route, it's possible that a custom JavaScript GUI to enter the data into Commons structured data would be a workable alternative. Xover (talk) 18:13, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

The Female Prose Writers of America section problem
In many section endings of this work, there are "#### ", which is causing "1. 1. 1." or "1. 1. 1. 1." to print out on many pages, due to the unfortunately confusing nature of the section shorthand markup coinciding with the page numbering markup. Here is an example page where this happens, and the fix would be to change #### to just .

Placing this here in case anyone wants to clean these up with a bot, or something. PseudoSkull (talk) 01:03, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * There only looks to be 13  Looking at those it looks like the originals were hosed, and missed on the validation. Think that they are better with a proper hand clean. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:41, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Think that I found another 20-30 in Page: ns around the place and fixed those too. — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:45, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Placing footnotes within page text
I am trying to put a footnotes group in the text of a page, instead of at the bottom of the page. But neither smallrefs nor. The ts template is spitting out a HTML "style=" attribute with CSS style rules corresponding to the short codes, and "ma" is. So, like for any web page the last couple of decades it centers the table by setting its left and right margins to be 50% of the available horizontal space. Tables and the ts template are among our most abstruse and least user-friendly areas (I can give you the long version of the "why" if you're interested), but it's absolutely conquerable for most people if they can tolerate some learning curve.Dot leaders should simply not be reproduced. Their value in a digital (vs. paper) format is dubious at best, and since not a single component of the technology stack we use has any support for them, our own implementation(s) are hacky, fragile, produces horrible output, etc. I have a rant somewhere in the archives about just how bloated the output from these templates are that I'm too lazy to go dig up just now, but trust me that it's bad. I strongly discourage anyone from ever using any of the dot-leader-producing templates. At some point we'll get actual support for dot-leaders (and drop initials, sigh) in web browsers, but until then it's much better to do without them altogether than use these templates.Some examples of table-based tables of contents: Howard Pyle's Book of Pirates, Shakespearean Tragedy, The Kingdom of God Is Within You (1894), The Case Book of Sherlock Holmes (1927), The Duke Decides. Xover (talk) 08:21, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. I appreciate these references more than I can say.
 * I have found ts-ma and ts-mc. How do you specify a width larger than 50%?  I read somewhere that percentages are deprecated and to use specific em widths instead.  I am asking because tables I'm working with are squeezed too small with not enough space between the columns when using these auto-margin and/or auto-padding styles.  I've tried adding styles to the individual cells (to force more space) but it didn't work.
 * Another problematic variation is trying to create columns with a rule between and keeping the space on either side of the line equal. These challenges have caused me to completely give up on certain works on WS in the past, but if I can get good examples to work from I think I could manage it now.
 * Re: dot leaders.  It seems to me that some sort of visual cue is necessary.  (At least, it is for me.)  Would it be better to add rules. dashes, or perhaps just a visible border along the bottom of the table cells?  It seems that the latter is possible with dashes or dots.  I will study the examples you cited;  maybe the answer is already there.  Thank you again. Laura1822 (talk) 15:19, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Laura1822: If you want advice on a specific table you need to link to it so we can see what we're working with.In general I wouldn't set a specific width for a table because we cannot control the viewing browser and the table needs to be able to adapt to everything from a tiny phone screen, via tablets, laptops small and large, and desktops with giant 32" desktop monitors running at 8k resolution. Not to mention that it still needs to function when converted into an ePub ebook and the quirks (limited CSS support) of ebook readers.The way to add a little breathing space to narrow tables of contents is to add padding to the cells. Unfortunately, since we are faking hanging indents using a combination of text-indent and padding, adding extra padding to a cell that also uses a hanging indent (as the chapter title often does) doesn't work. Instead you have to add the padding to the other cell involved (often the page number column).In general, the problems you mention sound like one part of not having figured out table syntax yet, but mostly it sounds like the limitations of tables in HTML (and CSS). For example, the web standards do not contain any facility for applying styling to a column of a table (only rows). But for a lot of tables the formatting, visually, is tied to the column. The net result is that we have to add styles (using ts) to every single cell in that column. This is one reason why so many people over the years have been tempted to make template-based approaches to TOCs: superficially it looks like templates will "solve" the problem, it's just that when you get down to brass tacks the cure is worse than the disease.On dot-leaders… Yes, in the abstract, dot-leaders serve a purpose, even if less so on a web page than in a paper book. But the technical facilities simply do not exist to do it in a sane way, and all the ways to fake it have serious drawbacks, so until we get real dot-leader support in web browsers it's best to simply not try to reproduce them at all. All the variants you mention have been tried before, and they simply do not work without massive drawbacks. In other words, dot-leaders are another instance where we need to stop sweating over reproducing every single detail of how the original was printed; our primary goal is reproducing what the author wrote, not the printer's layout. Xover (talk) 05:44, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Preventing page breaks between images and captions
Often when I export a book as an EPUB and open it in an app, I notice inappropriate page breaks between images and their captions when the images happen to be at the bottom of the page. I imagine some CSS could be added to the figure template to prevent this, but I'm not knowledgable enough to fix it myself. Nosferattus (talk) 05:20, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Nosferattus: figure already has the requisite CSS, but presumably the ePub converter doesn't support it (neither does Safari for paged media, for some weird reason). Xover (talk) 18:25, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It turns out I was looking at ePubs generated before those CSS changes were made. The CSS changes seem to have fixed the problem! However one thing that looks much worse in the newer ePubs is Dropinitial. I'm not sure why though. Nosferattus (talk) 19:41, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Nosferattus: Do you have an example text that looks much worse? Xover (talk) 19:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I guess "much worse" is not an accurate characterization. It's just different. Mainly, there is more whitespace above and below the letter, causing it to indent more lines and sometimes resulting in the top of the letter not lining up with the top of the first line, but being somewhat below it (which looks bad to me). I realize you can only do so much with CSS and there are always trade-offs, so it's probably not worth messing with. Nosferattus (talk) 20:14, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Combo formatting
On Page:The Souls of Black Folk (2nd ed).djvu/116, is there a way to simultaneously center and justify the memorial quotation? The quote is preserving the line breaks from the original monument. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:00, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @EncycloPetey: You can set 20em and justify, but that's only going to work with unbroken text, so you'll have to choose between precise reproduction of line breaks (vs. approximate based on line length) and justified text. In this particular case I would have picked the justified text on the reasoning that the inscription is wrapped due to physical constraints, the same way a book page is, rather than for semantic reasons as a poem is. Xover (talk) 05:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hmmm. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:20, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Usage of κ vs ϰ in Greek quotes
The work I'm transcribing has some Ancient Greek quotes, such as here: Supplement to the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Editions of the Encyclopædia Britannica/Dissertation First/Part 1. I'm not sure if I should be using κ or ϰ for the kappa characters. I had initially used ϰ, because it looks more like the font used in the source text, but I'm having second thoughts, because:


 * 1) ϰ seems to be intended to be used as a math symbol rather than a letter; and
 * 2) The ϗ ligature in Wikisource's Greek font looks more like κ than ϰ, so using κ would be more visually consistent.

Is there some established policy/convention for the use of these characters? Bloated Dummy (talk) 22:45, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Use κ (standard kappa) unless there is some compelling reason to do otherwise, such as the ϗ near the start of the passage, which is an abbreviated form of και. It looks as though the scan has an unusual typeface.  There was a wider variety of Greek typefaces used in the past.  Worrying about the shape of the kappa in a text is like worrying over whether the source has a lowercase a or ɑ in English.  It's a function of the font selected in most situations. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:56, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. Thanks. Bloated Dummy (talk) 23:48, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Uploading a transcription from a word doc
A historical project of mine required essentially the whole 1849 Code of Virginia be transcribed into a word doc. I've never really done anything on wikisource, but after the number of hours that went into having it transcribed, I'd like to upload it and save any future researchers the labour. How should I go about doing this? A note on the word doc itself: it's formatted using styles, not just font formatting, in the hopes that makes things easier; also, while it was human transcribed, I didn't have it edited afterwards -- in wikisource parlance, I think I'd call it proofread but not validated.

From reading, I know that standard procedure is to upload a scan and go page by page transcribing. Unfortunately, I didn't consider wikisource when transcribing and so didn't have page numbers preserved in the text. I think that's all the relevant info. Help definitely needed and appreciated. Many thanks. Maltonpsmith (talk) 16:25, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's quite impressive that you took on such a Herculean effort to finish a 950-page legal transcription!!! We absolutely would love to have your contributions here. Based on what you've said here, it would indeed be considered proofread by our standards...well, almost (see below). However, you will have to use our templates, etc. to format the text by Wikisource standards, and that would really be the only thing left that's needed.
 * My recommendation is to upload a scan file to Wikimedia Commons, and begin entering the text into the Page namespace page-by-page, formatting them correctly along the way. What you can do, for example, is copy the contents of Page 1 in your transcription into that page, copypaste Page 2, and so forth. But, by our standards it would not be considered "Proofread" until the formatting is done. So please keep that in mind during transcription. If you have trouble with the formatting, you can mark the page as "Problematic".
 * I gave you some useful links that can help you with this process when I welcomed you on your talk page. I'm honestly anxious to see this translated into a Wikisource text as you're suggesting. PseudoSkull (talk) 17:50, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, to be clear, it isn't so impressive on my part specifically; I didn't do the transcribing, I contracted out that work during the course of my research.
 * But as far as the uploading ... That's what I was afraid of. Unfortunately, my schedule would not permit the time necessary to manually copy-paste in 900+ pages of text. This is a bit of a long shot probably, but can I like commission someone to do this? Is that a thing? I've used fivver before to commission various small projects but I wouldn't know how to find a ... wikipedia professional? I don't know that that's a thing.
 * So I guess, given that I have a little more money than time (and I'm willing to consider spending a few dollars on a prosocial end like this), any suggestions? Maltonpsmith (talk) 19:39, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Extracting each page as a separate document, applying some simple text replacement and uploading each as text sounds like it would be possible to do programmatically. Someone who knows Word (or a compatible word processor) and a bit about document formats could probably do the document-related bits in a few (?) hours. At least it'd be quicker than copying and pasting 900 pages and marking them up.
 * Uploading the page texts could be scripted, but chances are Wikisource already has the tools for that. 8582e (talk) 17:22, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Tab character formatting question
In e.g. Page:CTRL0000034600 - Transcribed Interview of Richard Peter Donoghue, (Oct. 1, 2021).pdf/10, how do I replace the fixed width space with a variable length space that aligns the text vertically for both Qs and As (similar to a tab character - which I tried and does not work)? MER-C (talk) 19:27, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * One way to do it would be with something like which would make the overall width of the region be the same, but the letter inside could take up whatever space it wants. That could be done with e.g.   Sam Wilson 05:19, 13 July 2023 (UTC)


 * An alternative would be to use fqm and hang the characters outside the paragraphs. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:34, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I have deployed the inline block solution. MER-C (talk) 17:04, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Index goes wonky at the end
I can't seem to figure out what's causing the index to fail at the end of the page. When originally created, it underincluded and thus did not capture the final two pages. When repaired, it had the correct pagination in the left margin, per usual (although the final pages referred to themselves had not been created). But when p. 774 was finally created, it started behaving as it appears now. Link here: Index. -- Foofighter20x (talk) 20:26, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Too many templates transcluded onto a single page; more than the max that can be handled. You'll likely need to use a page-spanning table instead of the templates for the pages. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:51, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Is there a way to do that yet still maintain the dotted lining? -- Foofighter20x (talk) 11:07, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Some of us detest the dot leaders, so please don't get overly fussed by them. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:00, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Do not create deep links to Page: namespace in the indexes. If you truly feel the need to link index pages then they should be linked to the chapter and page utilising an anchor, ie. Chapter N#number. Throwing readers into the Page: ns is a very bad idea, and confusing to the casual reader, and horrid in exported books. Users should only end up in that space from the page numbering in the left sidebar, which is a more controlled means. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:06, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Addendum. We have had the Index:....css files for quite a period now that allow for very simplified table encoding, and then the application of styles to a whole table making these pages significantly easy to code and then proofread. The dotted templates simply scream noise and difficulty and the should be consigned to dustbin of history as they were play things from the beginning, and essentially all for the sake of dot leaders. [Yes, I am very biased and opinionated on them] — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:16, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The plethoric use of gap is killing you. Ideally I would have set a series of classes that could be assigned at the intervals you used, and then applied those to the respective rows so that you could get indents and hanging to work smoothly and in a neater way that there. I don't see a means to do that within that template structure. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:45, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

An expanded version of why not to use the faux dot-leader generating templates:

Each invocation of dtpl, ignoring actual page content and with already deduplicated template styles, generates this output:

That is, for every single line in the index, it generates over a kilobyte (1521 bytes) of markup (in addition to being very inefficient, it's not at all accessible for screen readers). Assuming about 40 lines per page, and 15 pages, that's an aggregate total of 912 600 bytes of raw markup with zero content. When you start adding in the actual content and other templates you're almost certain to trip the 2 097 152 bytes (2MB) post-expand include size limit in MediaWiki.

What I'm saying is: dtpl and its ilk needs to be killed with fire. Our alternatives aren't that great and user friendly, but trying to fake dot leaders when web browsers do not support them natively (there's a draft spec, but it hasn't moved in years, so support is years away at best) is always going to be a losing proposition. --Xover (talk) 10:01, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Problem with fqm
On Page:Tom Beauling (1901).pdf/85, the pad=yes parameter does not seem to be working... There should be padding between the first poem's " and the '. Could this be due to ppoem, or is it something else I'm missing? PseudoSkull (talk) 21:41, 30 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @PseudoSkull: This looks fine
 * 'T was there that we parted in yon shady glen
 * so it probably is ppoem, but I can't immediately figure out why. I thinks it's something to do with the  class though. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 22:21, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * so it probably is ppoem, but I can't immediately figure out why. I thinks it's something to do with the  class though. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 22:21, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Diagonal strikethrough
Hello, I'm quite new to Wikisource and I'm proofreading the pages of Index:The Origin and Development of the Bengali Language (Volume 1).pdf and Index:The Origin and Development of the Bengali Language (Volume 2).pdf, which may take more than a month to do so. However, the original PDF files are using diagonal strikethrough over the lowercase letter "a" to mark deleted inherent vowels in Bengali (the files themselves are written in English by the way), and I can't find any template that can do so. Therefore, I have substituted them with horizontal strikethrough. Please help me. Sbb1413 (talk) 13:56, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I looked at a few pages and didn't immediately see this in the scan, so if you could link to an example page, that would be handy. To be clear, here on Wikisource, our goal is to make a typographic reproduction, not a photographic one, so some style issues like being struck horizontally versus diagonally just can't or won't be reproduced in our scans. What is important is ensuring that the pages have proper semantics and structure (so, e.g. the difference between the del and s elements should be borne in mind). —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:07, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for clarification. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 14:11, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * U+023A and U+2C65 (Ⱥ and ⱥ) should work; there's not really appropriate markup.--Prosfilaes (talk) 22:14, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't use those: those are letters in the Saanich alphabet. They don't semantically mean the same thing as "a letter  that has been struck or deleted". —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:18, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The text isn't using the symbol to mean "a letter A that has been struck or deleted". It's using it to transliterate an /ɔ/ with a hôsôntô following it (Bengali_alphabet). (See Page:The Origin and Development of the Bengali Language (Volume 1).pdf/479 for an example of the symbol.) A character like 'a' or 'ä' can have a huge number of semantic meanings; I don't see any reason to restrict ⱥ to the Saanich alphabet, if that's the symbol being used. It seems incorrect to use markup to represent one character being used for a transliteration.--Prosfilaes (talk) 21:50, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Table split horizontally over two pages
On Page:The Anatomy of Tobacco.pdf/66 and Page:The Anatomy of Tobacco.pdf/67, there's a large table split down the middle by the page break, so that half of its columns are on one side and the other half on the other. Complicating matters is that the column nearest the break in the middle is reprinted on both sides, but is obscured by the binding on both so as to be only imperfectly visible (though reconstructible in its entirety from the visible portions on each side). How should the formatting for this be handled? Eureiachthon (talk) 01:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Eureiachthon I'd just put the table on Page:The Anatomy of Tobacco.pdf/66 and leave Page:The Anatomy of Tobacco.pdf/67 blank + marked as "without text" with an explanatory comment like  or something? Xover (talk) 07:35, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * But we do want to tag works so that readers will know whether it's PD for them, not necessarily PD in the US. We manage this for other situations, so why not do so for versions pages, instead of replicating the same license for each instance of a short story, essay, poem, etc. ?  I use the Lovecraft example because it gets at a major subset of our works, and Lovecraft stories are both popular and have complex publication histories and copyright status.  I would rather determine the status for a story, and by able to tag that information on the versions page for the story, rather than have to tag multiple instances and remember which stories have that information so placed.  That situation becomes more challenging for popular poems, which may have a half dozen editions. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:09, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Can't get section transclusion to work
Here I'm trying to transclude a part of the starting page using, but the page is skipped entirely. I already partially transcluded the same page here, and that worked fine... What's going on? Bloated Dummy (talk) 20:06, 1 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Never mind... I had used  instead of  . How this worked on the previous chapter is a mystery. Bloated Dummy (talk) 21:23, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Ref button disappeared
Am I right that the little button for making references when editing in the page-namespace has disappeared? It used to be on the line that starts with bold and italic.... --Dick Bos (talk) 17:43, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Dick Bos: Are you sure? I don't recall any ref button there, unless you mean the Citeoid-backed "insert a full citation template" button that's intended for use on enWP (and which should not be used in content namespaces on enWS). Plain ref tags have always been in the extended snippets menu above (or below, depending on skin) the editor itself, in the "Wiki markup" section.If it is the Citoid-backed button you mean I am not aware of any specific changes that would affect it here, but I vaguely recall hearing somewhere—in the context of enWP—that it was being removed for technical reasons (some piece of the machinery it used was unmaintained and broken or something like that). Xover (talk) 08:39, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Xover. I'm sure. I found an old screendump and took a part of it (from Dutch wikisource, but it was the same on English; on Dutch it also disappeared, by the way). It was the fifth button, the little black vertical rectangle with a little part taken out. It has disappeared. I'm not quite sure how long ago; a couple of days. The buttons beside it on the left and right are all still there. The button produced a and the cursor was between the tags, so that it was easy to past the ref, that was cut from the bottom of the ocr-page. --Dick Bos (talk) 09:05, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Dick Bos: Oh, yes, now I recall that button (I never used it and the icon is horribly non-intuitive, so that's probably why I didn't remember). I'll try to see if I can find out anything, but there's no obvious reason why it would have suddenly disappeared unless it was done upstream (i.e. by MW/WMF devs) that I can think of. Xover (talk) 09:52, 2 August 2023 (UTC)



Adding a 1935 book written in 4 languages (about the Piri Reis map)
I have been editing the "Piri Reis map" article on Wikipedia. The map's text is primarily Ottoman Turkish written in the Arabic alphabet. An editor suggested that I relocate the considerable amount of translated text from the Wikipedia article to Wikisource where it properly belongs. I'm looking through the beginner guides, but I think my situation is something of an edge case. Most of the translations and transliterations come from a short book that Turkey sponsored to accompany the original run of reproduction prints of the map. As the author died soon after, this document is now in the public domain.

A few of the questions I have about uploading this are:

Rjjiii (talk) 15:14, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) Can I upload part of the work? The main portion of the book is duplicated in Turkish, Italian, German, French and English. There is also a large foldout map with transliterations into modern Turkish attached to the back cover. Can I just omit the German, French, and Italian portions?
 * 2) The foldout map is a black and white outline with Roman numerals corresponding to translations. Do I have to include this as-is, or can I overlay the Roman numerals directly onto a scan of the actual map?
 * 3) Do I upload this under the Turkish title? Or the English title? Or the name of the map?


 * Some will give different answers to this, so this is my perspective:
 * mul: exists for two purposes and one of those is to host multilingual texts (the other is to host texts is languages that have not or will not graduate to their own subdomain).
 * I can't exactly answer this without seeing what you mean, but not that here and on the multilingual Wikisource, our goal is to make a typographic and not a photographic reproduction, so there are sometimes changes or concessions that need to be made to make a certain work intelligible, legible, etc.
 * If it's here, then English (and some users will have a perspective that you can transcribe the English portions here), but if it's on mul:, then just use whatever was the original title, if it's in Ottoman Arabic or Turkish or whatever.
 * —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:22, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the answer. It got me going. Once I began to scan my copy of the book (1966 reprint) I realized that some translations are direct reprints (including the English one) and others are described as having been updated for the 1966 version, so it turns out I can only do a section and not all languages. Rjjiii (talk) 09:18, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Rjjiii: There's a misconception on Wikipedia that all random text content belongs on Wikisource. But Wikisource's scope is primarily published texts as published (implicitly by some kind of reputable publisher; not, e.g., self published stuff. Think WP:V and WP:RS and you'll be in the ballpark). That means the book you refer to would probably be in scope, but the map alone, unless it was independently published and contained significant amounts of English text, would not be. If the book contains the same text in multiple languages, it is possible we could transcribe and host just the English parts on enWS, but that'd take a specific assessment. Your best bet to start would probably be mulWS since multilingual texts are their bread and butter.Also, I think you skip kinda fast over the details on the copyright. Where was the work (the book, not the map) first published? Who was the author(s) and what are their vital years? When was the book published in the US relative to its first publication (we care about intervals down to about 30 days, so some precision is required)? If the book was first published outside the US its copyright may have been restored by the URAA to a pub. +95 year term in the US, making it protected by copyright until 2031. Xover (talk) 10:51, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Where: Turkey
 * When: 1935
 * Yusuk Akçura died in 1935, the same year the work was published.
 * The work was packaged with prints of the map that the Turkish government began producing in 1935. (I believe there were also transparent overlay notes for the map, but I only have the paper book.) The foldout map is attached to the back cover of the book. Rjjiii (talk) 17:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * regarding "When was the book published in the US" I believe it was published only in Turkey. If you have more questions, feel free to ask. Rjjiii (talk) 18:08, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Some publication info on the book:
 * https://lccn.loc.gov/gm72000574
 * https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/6447525
 * Also, as Akçura describes working with Abdurrahman, I'll note that he passed by 1943. I didn't mention this guy because I don't think (based on my reading) that his contribution could be covered by copyright as he was literally copying the letters of a brief inscription from the map (1513) that was in the public domain and his transcription is not directly present in the English version:
 * At the Breaking Point of The Ottoman Empire and the Founding of Republic an Enlightened Muslim-Turkish Abdurrahman Aygun’s (1878-1943) Assessment of Bible of Barnabas
 * And finally the Turkish version was published in a journal 2 years before the book's release:
 * https://www.ttk.gov.tr/belgelerle-tarih/piri-reis-haritasi-hakkinda-izahname/
 * Xover, let me know if you need more info or if you notice something that would prevent the English version of the work from being hosted here. Rjjiii (talk) 03:39, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Rjjiii: Based on what you tell me, and the info at the links you provide, the copyright situation seems to shake out as follows:The map itself is a 1521 "copyright" that has long expired, and the 20th-century facsimile—because it is a facsimile—gets no independent copyright. In general I think we can ignore the map as such for copyright purposes.The texts in the accompanying 19-page booklet in Turkish, German, English, and French were first published in Ankara, and not published in the US within thirty days, so it is a Turkish work. The Turkish copyright term is pma. 70, unless the work is by a government employee in the course of their duties when it is pub. +70 years. Since the author died the year it was published the distinction is unimportant in this instance. 1935 + 70 years means the Turkish copyright expired at the end of 2005. The URAA restoration date for Turkey is 1 January 1996, so since the work was still in copyright in Turkey on that date its US copyright was restored. Under US copyright law the term of protection is pub. +95 years, which means it will expire at the end of 1935 + 95 = 2030.In other words, I'm sorry to say that it seems the booklet is still in copyright in the US and as such cannot be hosted on any Wikimedia project (Wikipedia can still quote shorter passages from it as any other source, of course, but any extended quotation would be a problem). The map itself seems fine. Xover (talk) 08:28, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, I understand now why you were asking so much about the US. Okay, that's a letdown but I appreciate the explanation. I don't mind if anyone deletes the page as a precaution. I took some time to read over URAA and look up the publication history/status in the US. The whole package (facsimile, transparent overlay, booklet, and foldout map attached to the booklet) was likely never published in the US. I found a 1937 review (The Geographical Journal, Vol. 90, No. 1 (Jul., 1937), p. 85) that describes it a "credit" to the Turkish state press, so it was definitely not published in the US between 1935-1937, or within 30 days. Within the booklet, the passage with the translated inscriptions has been republished many times in the US, outside of the context of the booklet. I think the copyright status of only that section then is different, which is likely why some recent books on the map and the admiral liberally quote Akçura's translations, but not his introduction. I'm going to reach out to the organization who published the book. They currently host some of Akçura's Turkish notes online, so they may be receptive. I'll hold off on trying add anything from the work until I hear from them, Rjjiii (talk) 01:15, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Rjjiii: If you can get the copyright holders to release it under a compatible license that would be awesome. But please keep in mind that various "non-bureaucratic" permissions approaches are not going to be sufficient (we've ran head-first into this trap before, hence this warning).First and foremost, "giving permission" is a bad approach because the end result is going to have to fit within a legal framework, and copyright law is among the more rigid areas of legislation. So long as something is protected by copyright what we want is an actual license, and that license has to be one compatible with the various Wikimedia projects' licensing policies. My strong recommendation is to use either the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike (CC-BY-SA-4.0), Creative Commons Attribution (CC-BY-4.0), or Creative Commons Public Domain dedication (CC-Zero). These licenses are all designed specifically for this purpose. For any other licensing or permission scheme there are numerous pitfalls.Second, we need some way to verify the licensing (one anonymous user asserting they've gotten permission is insufficient). The easiest way may be for them to host a scan of the booklet on a verifiably-official website where the licensing is made explicit. That way one or more admins here or on Commons can go check the website and vouch for it being compatibly licensed. Another approach is through VRT (what used to be called OTRS). This requires the copyright holders to email VRT with sufficient documentation that they 1) are legally able to license the work, and 2) actually understand the implications of the license. There will typically (aiui) be a back and forth over email with the VRT volunteers.I realise that when approaching a copyright holder for permission, asking them to jump through such hoops feels a little awkward. Sadly, though, these are the realities of international copyright. In any case, feel free to ask if anything is unclear or you need more details on anything (the details or differences between the licenses, for example). Xover (talk) 14:18, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Uploading multiple images
I need to upload about 50 images to WS which are PD in the US but not in the home country and so are not elligible to be uploaded to Commons. However, it seems that Special:Upload does not support uploading multiple images at the same time. Is there any way how to do it or do I have to upload them one by one? -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:03, 4 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Jan.Kamenicek: There are various bulk-uploaders for Commons that may be able to do the job. The most commonly mentioned is Pattypan, and some more are linked in the navbox at the bottom of that page. I have no experience with any of them, so I can't make any recommendations and I don't know whether any of them support uploading to other projects than Commons (there's no technical reason why they wouldn't; the API for it is identical). If none of them work I can try to see if I can make a custom script for it. Xover (talk) 14:29, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Problems with Overfloat image
I've just finished Control of Obscene and Indecent Articles Ordinance 1987 that features an extra large locus sigilli on page 3. I tried to modify on User:Kanwenjian's solution on Page:Copyright Ordinance 1973 (Cap. 39).pdf/1. It looks perfect on the page, but it fails to reproduce on the main page. No matter the circle's size, it won't change and match the "L.S." on the transcluded main page. What's the problem?廣九直通車 (talk) 09:19, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @廣九直通車: Replace the overfloat image with . Xover (talk) 09:56, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I considered it, while the locus sigilli file/template works reasonably well for smaller sizes, it looks comical to some extent. To be honest I also tried using this chance to practice other cases if the circle contains other words (such as c:File:Brunei Nationality Enactment, 1961 (Now Cap. 15).pdf). Maybe if there's no other way to rectify, then I may have to stick with the locus sigilli template then.廣九直通車 (talk) 10:34, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Notifying previously involved user.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:15, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Update: Figured out the solution by myself (by modifying the width parameter), sorry for the inconvenience.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for fixing it. I will make sure it looks correctly on the main page next time. Kanwenjian (talk) 21:02, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Indented paragraphs and lists over a page break
I've been transcribing Index:The Soviet Socialist Constitution of december 5, 1936.djvu and have been having trouble with continuing paragraphs that are indented and lists that are cut off by the end of a page to the next (like starting on Page:The Soviet Socialist Constitution of december 5, 1936.djvu/9 and Page:The Soviet Socialist Constitution of december 5, 1936.djvu/11). I indented these paragraphs by adding ":" before the beginning of each one. I'm trying to put this in one article but the paragraphs and lists are often broken. I've tried looking for formatting on page breaks but haven't been able to find anything. How would I fix this? Constdoc (talk) 21:27, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * For the lists see Help:Page breaks. For the indenting, our Style Manual specifically says not to indent the first line of paragraphs. We use a single blank line between paragraphs instead. This is done regardless of how the paragraphs are presented in the print version. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:38, 3 August 2023 (UTC)


 * In this case you can use left/s left/e instead of ":".--M-le-mot-dit (talk) 10:22, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, when I use  and , it separates the two paragraphs when the pages are put together through , is there a way where I can indent it so it won't separate when they are put together? And what is the ident em length of using ":"? Constdoc (talk) 19:23, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, to use these templates you have to place a  in the body of the first page, and a   in its footer; then a   in the header of the next page, and a   in the body after the paragraph. See djvu pages 8 to 11. The same for plainlist/s end /e.
 * For the offset, 1.6em gives a correct alignment with ':'. Hope this helps.--M-le-mot-dit (talk) 10:56, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, that helped. There's a rendering error on pages 19-20 where a bullet point gets cut off before it ends and the rest of the sentence gets treated as a separate bullet point, do you know how I can fix this? Constdoc (talk) 01:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The star at the beginning of page 20 renders this line as a new item. You may check the transclusion now.--M-le-mot-dit (talk) 12:43, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you for all your help. Constdoc (talk) 21:39, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Book starts with straight quotes, and remainder uses curly quotes
Hi, I've been proofreading Middlemarch (1874), and suddenly realized that Books 1 and 2 use only straight single and double quotes, but Books 3 through 8 use curly single and double quotes! The source uses only curly quotes throughout, so it appears somebody changed their mind midway through OCR'ing/posting the text to Wikisource. I'm relatively new here, and have skimmed some of the extensive style discussions on quotes, and don't know what to do. Should I continue using the scheme that the 8 books are currently in (2 books "straight", 6 books "curly")? Or should I convert books 1 and 2 to be consistent with books 3-8 and the original source? Or... ? Harris7 (talk) 21:06, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Nearly all printed books use curly quotes; that's not a deciding factor, as policy allows either to be used as long as it is consistent throughout the work. Typically, whoever started the work, or did the lion's share of getting it up, sets the standard (explicitly or implicitly), so I would look first at whether the volumes were done by the same person, and what dates the volumes were done.  If the same person or people were responsible for both versions of quotes, then they probably changed their mind, and just never went back to finish, or the work might have switched around the time curly quotes were made permissible.  If that doesn't resolve the issue, does the work have a page where the style of quotes is stated to be one or the other (either a work Talk page or an Index Talk page)?  --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:18, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

How to correctly contribute to Wikisource
Hello, I have Tesla's complete Articles and Patents file and I started to add the missing articles here in Wikisource. Which is the right way to do so? Μαρία-Στέλλα (talk) 08:24, 11 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Are these from scans? The first thing to do would be to load the scans as DJVU or PDF to Commons, if they are out of copyright. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:50, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Headings using simple wikitext bad for transcribing?
I finished proofreading Index:USA v Trump-Jan6 Indictment.pdf which someone else started and they used wikitext style  to mark up the source text headings. Since the rendered HTML markup seemed semantically accurate using H2, H3, etc.. tags, I thought it would be fine and even good for screen-readers. But then when I tried to transclude the pages on the main page, some of the headings don't get rendered and stuck as plain text  wikitext. Specifically looks like the ones that are at the top of individual pages (like page 10 with the Arizona heading). Is this fixable or should I just change all the headings to center templates and style text accordingly? Here's sample what it looks like -- Riley AJ (talk) 08:57, 21 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Riley AJ: Use c possibly combined with xl. The built-in heading wikimarkup is "owned" by MediaWiki (i.e. they can change the formatting and display at any time), and doesn't play well with transclusion in some cases. We're reproducing the formatting of the original publication (well, a reasonable approximation), not semantic heading levels that can pr should be dynamically restyled with a new site skin. Xover (talk) 10:20, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Adding to that that they throw in ToCs, and the introduced headers are not accurately representative of the original published work, and trying to convert them to something like that is a interpretation. Typically we always point to [Help:Templates]] for all our formatting. If push comes to shove and you do want to use the header formatting, I would have tried a nop at the end f the preceding page, as what is happening is your are joining the end of the previous page with the start of the next and it isn't seeing the = start a new line of text. — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:56, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

For anyone else that comes across this, adding a blank line at top of the page fixed the problem however I would recommend against using the wikitext syntax due to various issues as mentioned above. I ended up using the heading template which I found on a previous discussion about various heading templates here: Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2023. I'm not sure I understand the argument against marking clear headings as headings. Transcribing a work into a different format always involves at least some minor interpretation, like which lines of text are part of which paragraph, or slicing tables that have no borders into appropriate columns and rows. And I find marking headers similar to dividing works into separate chapters which is very common on here. --Riley AJ (talk) 00:30, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Now that I think about it suppose it could be considered an unnecessary interpretation if we don't need to divide the work. Regardless, I used a template that can be updated if the HTML header tags shouldn't be used. --Riley AJ (talk) 00:53, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Download from hathitrust
Hi, does anybody have access to download a book I'm working on from hathitrust. The book is Index:Tree Crops.pdf The link to the Hathitrust book is []. The pdf here is missing many pages and the one at hathitrust seems to have all pages intact. Jpez (talk) 18:49, 7 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Jpez: File:Tree Crops; A Permanent Agriculture (1929).pdf —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 04:11, 8 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Wow Thank you CalendulaAsteraceae! Jpez (talk) 04:16, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Pagelist updated. It seems the exisiting work done on this requires page moves. Any admins about to do this?
 * Alternatively is it just simpler to migrate to the new file?
 * ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:13, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There isn't an Index yet, so we don't know whether the pages need only be moved laterally or whether a shift also needs to happen. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:19, 10 August 2023 (UTC)


 * EncycloPetey There is an index here index:Tree Crops; A Permanent Agriculture (1929).pdf. I was manually doing the page moves for the first index which is Index:Tree Crops.pdf but I think it would be better if it could all be moved to Index:Tree Crops; A Permanent Agriculture (1929).pdf because there are more editiins down the line. Jpez (talk) 05:03, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Since the number of pages is different in the new Index, and the position of the existing pages is different from the previous one, it will probably have to be a manual move to get all of the pages into the right locations. Or at least someone who has a semi-automated process.  It won't be a straightforward or simple rename. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:10, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * So I've made a little mess of things. CalendulaAsteraceae can you download Tree Crops (which is a cropped version of your upload from Hathitrust removing watermarks and first hathi page) and upload it over your upload of Tree Crops; A Permanent Agriculture (1929) and then move all pages from index:Tree Crops.pdf to index:Tree Crops; A Permanent Agriculture (1929).pdf as they are. I hope it makes sense. Then we can delete the old index. Jpez (talk) 13:22, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jpez: Sorry for the late response! That sounds like more work than I'm up for doing right now, but you should be able to do the uploading and page moves; I don't think I have any special capabilities as the original uploader of the file. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 03:38, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * CalendulaAsteraceae no problem I just uploaded it myself. I was getting the message "you cannot overwrite this file" and thought maybe only the original uploader could overwrite. Than by chance I hit the edit button and had another look and than was allowed to overwrite. Probably some sort of glitch. Thanks for your help. I'll request a move now. Jpez (talk) 06:17, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I would like to now copy/move all pages from index:Tree Crops.pdf to index:Tree Crops; A Permanent Agriculture (1929).pdf How is this done? Do I requst it somewhere? Thanks for any help. Jpez (talk) 06:27, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Drop a request at Bot Requests and someone there will be able to help you. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:47, 27 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks Beeswaxcandle Jpez (talk) 09:47, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Duplicate page in wrong place
The pages Personal_Memoirs_of_U._S._Grant/Chapter_XIV and Personal_Memoirs_of_U._S._Grant/Chapter_XV appear to be identical... AnonMoos (talk) 19:11, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Also, not sure where the text is so that you can edit it, but on page Personal_Memoirs_of_U._S._Grant/Chapter_XVI, "application of stream" should be "application of steam"... AnonMoos (talk) 19:14, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Fixed transclusion, was typo in their numbering for the transclusion. Please feel free to fix the text error, and maybe even feel free to further proof the page and upgrade it to validated. Click on the page link in the left hand side channel. If the page numbering is not showing for you, then that can be toggled in the left hand column of the work. — billinghurst  sDrewth  08:49, 20 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Whatever it is to get to where I can edit text, I don't think I see it. I see a "download" button and a play audio control, but I doubt those will help me. AnonMoos (talk) 20:01, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The page numbers at the side link to the individual pages. The one that you want is Page:Personal Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant Volume I.pdf/231 -- Beardo (talk) 12:14, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Using sic template inside WikiLink?
Is this possible? I have attempted to do it on this page as there is a misprint within the table of contents: Page:Rudyard_Kipling's verse - Inclusive_Edition 1885-1918.djvu/9. But whatever I've done seems to have messed up the formatting.

The correct name of the poem is "The Ballad of the Clampherdown" and it appears as such on the page itself. Solemn1 (talk) 20:46, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ — I fixed it by changing Sic to SIC. It's rather confusing, but they are two different templates; see their documentations. SIC is the generally recommended template. PseudoSkull (talk) 20:59, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Much appreciated. • the solemn one (talk) 21:21, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Please clarify secondhand transcription policy
Sorry to post twice in a row.

I have just read the second-hand transcription policy, which I will quote below in full:


 * Wikisource no longer accepts any new texts from Project Gutenberg, or similar second-hand transcriptions of any sort. This applies even if "scan"-backed by a DJVU, PDF, or any other format accepted by the ProofreadPage extension, created from that text.


 * Note: The preferred way to contribute such texts is to proofread against a scanned copy of the book so that the Wikisource copy can always be validated against the physical text.

This policy is ambiguous to me. Does the note say that it's acceptable to start with a Project Gutenberg transcription as long as it is independently proofread by Wikisource contributors against a scanned file? This seems to contradict the statement that "scan-backing" does not legitimize the inclusion of a second-hand transcription.

Thanks in advance for any clarification. • the solemn one (talk) 22:14, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 * • the solemn one: “Wikisource no longer accepts any new texts from Project Gutenberg …. This applies even if "scan"-backed … created from that text.” This paragraph states that adding a PG etc. text copy or using the same to make a new text is not allowed. The next section’s reference to “such texts” just refers to the same works available on PG etc., stating that when you wish to add a specific book, that should be done from an original scan and not based on any existing text transcription. I may state that this policy is not strictly enforced, however. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 00:09, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. • the solemn one (talk) 12:50, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

ditto bar breaks inside a link
I wanted to linkify some text that has ditto bars in it, but using ditto bar inside a link produces a strange effect. The template stops working correctly; it shows both the underlying text and the bar. What's more, every other ditto bar on the page also stops working, even if it's not inside the link.

Example:


 * bar
 * quux

Is this some known bug? Any workarounds? Bloated Dummy (talk) 00:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Bloated Dummy: Known issue (unlikely to be fixed any time soon). Workaround is to put the link inside the template argument, if necessary splitting the linked term into multiple pieces, or simply not linking the ditto bar part (a horizontal bar is a pretty useless hyperlink / click target in most cases). Xover (talk) 06:01, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Contributing original translations
Hi, I didn't see mentioned in the high level help articles whether editors can contribute their own translations. I've been reviewing public domain texts in the Dakota language and translating some of them. I was not able to find any full translations elsewhere. I was hoping to upload the original text and the translations somewhere.

Does this site accept dictionaries? Some of them are Dakota to English dictionaries that don't necessarily require translation, but they are in the public domain and I'd be happy to add them if they fit here. None of these documents are transcribed anywhere, just basic OCR on archive sites. Pingnova (talk) 05:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Pingnova: User translations are permitted, with some restrictions, here on English Wikisource. See Translations. However, for the use cases you describe—works inherently in multiple languages, and non-English works for which no Wikisource exists for the original language—the right project is Multilingual Wikisource. Xover (talk) 05:54, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Excluding links from an export?
Hi, I checked on Help:Preparing for export and didn't find much of use about this. I recently exported Aristotle as an epub, and when I opened it up on my Kindle, found that my export contained the entire Ancient Classics series, since they are listed and linked on the top level work page.

Is there a way to hide certain content from the exporter? Of course, I can simply edit the page so as not to transclude the series listing, export it and then change it back, but this is not the cleanest or most helpful solution. :) • the solemn one (talk) 14:12, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Solemn1: ws-export doesn't export every link on the page; but you've explicitly marked the series list up as a table of contents using TOC begin. If you format it using a plain table it should work as expected. The logic in play here is described in Help:Preparing for export#Listing pages for export. Xover (talk) 15:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! To clarify, I did not play any part in adding or formatting this work -- I just wanted to read it on my Kindle. :) I did not realize that the exporter would only follow links marked as belonging to a table of contents. I will see if I can fix that. • the solemn one (talk) 15:24, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Didn't mean that to sound like an accusation. Sorry. :) Xover (talk) 15:32, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

One index that contains multiple PDFs (one book that has been split into multiple files)
c:Category:榕腔初學撮要 (A manual of the Foochow dialect) has been split into 11 files for whatever reason.

Does the &lt;pagelist&gt; tag support having a single Index:A manual of the Foochow dialect that envelops all 11 files? Can a file be specified for each &lt;pagelist&gt; tag?

Or do we have to resort to  for all ~270 pages? Fish bowl (talk) 05:23, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * First step is to see if the Scan lab team are able to unsplit the files back into a single file. If this isn't possible, then you'll need 11 Index: pages. But drop them a note first and see what they can do to help. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:33, 29 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The Harvard website has PDF export button that can produce 1 PDF, more efficient than involving the Scan lab team. I'll upload the resulting file, then. (I just had hoped that perhaps no extra effort would be needed if the pagelist tag did have such a function.)
 * (I wonder how many other books from Harvard have been uploaded this way?) Fish bowl (talk) 01:16, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

left sidenote appearing on right side
In Indian Copyright Act (6th Amendment) 2012 and a few other similar ones, the act numbers (XX of YYYY), which should appear on the left with left sidenote, appear on the right and cover up the normal right sidenotes. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:15, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * This is a layout issue. Your default layout is moving all sidenotes to the right. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:14, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Beeswaxcandle: What other layout works? The default layout turns all of the sidenotes into boxes, which not only looks very bad but also severely messed up the formatting (in terms of indents). TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:49, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I only ever read in layout 1, so I'm not the best to advise. I do know that the WM software doesn't do sidenotes very well. However, what happens in transclusion if you change the left sidenotes to LR sidenote? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:15, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Multiple components making this difficult
Hi. I need some help with page 307 of this effort. Specifically a couple of issues with the small, multi-columned text box that presents itself twice on the page, to the right of the large word "TRUTH".

So I have a box, one multi-col within another, a table, and the use of a brace. I'm fine with the box & multi columns, but I'm weak with tables, especially combined with a brace. I've used nowiki in the left side of the page because it was even further away from what was needed without it. Can I get some instruction on how to make this display properly?

I'd also like to scrunch the box somewhat to make it not so tall, but the only way I can think to do it is change the line spacing on the right side of the little box, which I don't know if we can do. Any suggestions?

Finally, at the bottom of the page there are some markings on either side of the "To Arms!" text. Any suggestions on how to reproduce this, or should it just be ignored?

Thank you for your time. snafu22q (talk) 18:58, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Snafu22q,
 * Sorry for the delay, but I would recommend avoiding multi-col altogether. I have provided an example for the top table on Page 307, created all within the one table (hopefully error free, but all the row/colspans can be confusing).
 * As to scrunching the box, one option is to adjust the line height. I have made two edits to page 307, and if you revert my last edit, you will see the table at the default line height 100, rather than as it currently stands with a line height of 95, and a smaller brace. Up to you which you prefer.
 * As for the marking beside the "To Arms!" text, I suppose you could insert them as images, if you were determined. Single lines would be easy enough with rule/bar/ditto bar (and I guess you could have multiple if you inserted them within another table, and used rowspan again).
 * Just in case, given the number of style shorthands used, you may want to refer to "https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Template:Table_style" for any you are unfamiliar with.
 * Regards,TeysaKarlov (talk) 03:37, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Queries about adding a source for Clavius Opera Mathematica
So this was spurred by seeing Compendium Novae Rationis on Latin Wikisource and noticing that the text uses ASCII tables, which led to pondering the addition of a source so that we can justify replacing them with HTML tables; said text was reprinted as part of Romani calendarii a Gregorio XIII P.M. restituti explicatio by Clavius, which itself was reprinted as part of the compilation Opera Mathematica, so I figured that would be the easiest way.

I've never added a text source before, so I have a few queries:


 * There are a couple of existing scans that I can mirror (as a 17th century text it is in the public domain).
 * e-rara has a full text PDF copy, which looks like it would be the best option IMO, but the PDF has a cover page added by them; I'm also not sure if there's anything special we'd need to do if we do decide to use it (the page says something about sending them a notification?).
 * Alternatively there's the copy from the University of Notre Dame, which is available in a ZIP file containing JPEG scans and an HTML viewer. Quality seems a little worse than the other one. The license is CC 3.0 BY-NC-SA, which is convenient.
 * The text is in five volumes, and is a compilation of several other texts. I don't know how to split them up, is there any guidance for this?

Help would be appreciated. Arcorann (talk) 05:40, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Debugging Module:License Wikidata/sandbox
I'm working on code to get the death years of a work's creators from Wikidata. As far as I can tell, the code for getting a work's creators is working, but the code to then get their death years is not.

I suspect the problem is in, but I'm not really sure. Help? Also, how do I add console logs to a Lua module? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 05:41, 9 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @CalendulaAsteraceae: You use  and   for debug logging, but you'll obviously just see the output in the interactive debug console.Your code is failing because you're not actually passing in the Wikidata QID to the internal functions beyond the entry point.   sets   (because you're moving it to a separate variable) and then all subsequent functions are trying to look for a Wikidata QID in  . Essentially you're getting   back because you're trying to look up Wikidata QID   Xover (talk) 11:36, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! For the record, it turns out the ultimate error was, when all of the entries in   were named rather than numbered. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 23:31, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Formatting problem
Just wondering whether anyone can fix the side note on page 1 of the first chapter of A Treatise of the Covenant of Grace so that it appears correctly both in the transcluded text and at Page:A Treatise of the Covenant of Grace (John Ball).djvu/13 ? PeterR2 (talk) 22:33, 10 September 2023 (UTC)


 * There is some horizontal scrolling, which is awful, but I don't see an exact problem as such. Can you clarify what you think is wrong and how in principle someone would fix it? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the first Hebrew word (followed by a Latin letter) appears above the text instead of in the margin where it belongs! PeterR2 (talk) 23:53, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Fixed (at least on my screen) by moving the note's location in the text. In the previous position it was against a blank line. As a side note, we don't reproduce binder's marks in the footers. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:15, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! PeterR2 (talk) 05:40, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * As an aside, where would I find the information as to what material printed in a book should be included? I know that non-printed artefacts are not included. In relation to printer's section marks in the footer I suspect I just followed the practice that was already in place in some other book that I have worked on. PeterR2 (talk) 08:05, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Tagalog version
Is there a Tagalog version of "The Age of Reason?" If none, can i try translating it or can somebody help me so I can start contributing translation if possible?

Thanks Demansanaallan (talk) 13:41, 11 September 2023 (UTC)


 * To be clear, we have a Tagalog section at our multilingual Wikisource. and there is a Scriptorium for that project as well. Since The Age of Reason is in the public domain, you are definitely welcome to contribute a new translation of it at that version of Wikisource, as long as you agree to freely license it. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:13, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Kailangan natin ng mga work sa Tagalog. Kulang na kulang tayo. Maraming salamat po. :) (I hope that was any good, I speak Tagalog conversationally/informally almost every day, but never about complex topics like Wikisource) PseudoSkull (talk) 22:28, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Perfect is your Tagalog, My first impression to you because of that one liner Tagolog-English (Tag-lish) line immediately above these, kung saan ako ay nagre-reply? Is actually THE ONE who we all are looking for. You probably get it, I hope my humor can make it in your notice.  If not, sorry for attempting through writing, but failed to make you laugh...hahaha>THE ONE...  line is a joke.  A formal and legit intention how a sincere person, knowing this is not a chat room still throws a joke.  The sad thing it probably did not even make it.
 * Where and how do you suggest I should begin brother? I was so happy hearing a familiar voice!  God bless you sir, you colleagues, and all the rest to whom you always give all that you do, have done, and also what you will still do.
 * We are all a son of man, unless one who says so in false humility, is really just none human... + Demansanaallan (talk) 06:12, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * correction to that phrase in the 2nd line of this paragraph: "my first impression to you" needs to be "my first impression of you is that you are THE ONE..." Demansanaallan (talk) 06:29, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Navigating Wikisource proofreading - tips for a beginner
Recently I happened upon the Wikisource list of books needing proofreading, and was interested enough to have my first go. The next day I came back and really struggled to even find that list again. Also, I read a suggestion that a good way to start is to search for uploaded books on a subject you're interested in, but all my searching took me to the main Wikisource library, not books within the proofreading list. I have spent time reading various help pages but they have been of limited help. My experience to date is that this forum is not friendly to beginners, but I'm hoping that someone can change that by pointing me in the right direction. Maybe I've missed something completely obvious (I hope!). Peterkp (talk) 15:17, 18 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Peterkp,
 * While perhaps a little biased myself, given that I often work on texts there, I would recommend the Monthly Challenge as a good place to start. There is generally a wide selection of works, without the list being dauntingly long. If you find you like the monthly challenge, there is also the Nominations page if there is something you are particularly interested in.
 * As for finding lists (or anything on Wikisource), I can at least sympathize, as I distinctly recall "losing" pages when I started. Was this the page you were looking for https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Category:Index_Not-Proofread? If it is, you can always get back to it from the categories section of an index page (just cntr-f category if you don't immediately see the link, on said index page).
 * Also, dare I ask, but why is this forum not friendly to beginners?
 * Regards,
 * TeysaKarlov (talk) 01:27, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. I'll try out your suggestions. As to the 'not friendly' comment, I apologise, because I see I used the wrong word. I wasn't suggesting that the people here were unfriendly; what I meant is that I don't find the overall Wikisource editing experience to be user friendly. To take just one small example, I first found this page by clicking the Ask a question button at the foot of the main Help page. So far so good. But on the next page, above the typing box were these words: "You are editing in either the Wikisource or Help namespace. This page should include a Process header template. Please review its documentation and Help:Style guide." That was enough the first time to completely deter me from continuing. None of it made sense, and I thought I'd landed in a wrong and more advanced place. Peterkp (talk) 22:05, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * And yes, the Index_Not-Proofread list is what I was talking about, so that's helpful. But here's the question: How do you search that list? There are over 18,000 texts listed. Suppose I was interested in New Zealand history, or music; is there a way of filtering the list to see what's available on those subjects? Peterkp (talk) 22:14, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Peterkp Hmmm. Not sure I can be as helpful with this answer, as I don't know of a way to filter the Category:Index_Not-Proofread list itself. As far as I am aware, giving a text a category (like New Zealand history) has to be done manually, and so I expect it rarely occurs for Not-Proofread indexes. You can search these categories, with, e.g.~https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:Categories?from=New+Zealand, and then from there, can select the New Zealand History subcategory, and from there you might find works that have been proofread but not validated (i.e.~been proofread once, but not a second time, more carefully checking for errors), and occasionally even not proofread at all (but a lot more rarely). This would still involve manually clicking on each, then going to the source tab (top left, or just cntrl-f source if you can't find it), to see how close to complete the proofreading/validating process is. A more experience user might know more, when it comes to filtering searches, or maybe that is just the best there is. TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:56, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

IA-Upload tool needs repairs...
Same problem as mentioned previously. It uploaded the file beautifully, but the text-layer is misaligned. File:The Mythology of All Races Vol 4 (Finno-Ugric and Siberian).djvu

I've requested deletion of the file at Commons, so someone that has the skills can manually import it RELIABLY. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:31, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Templates: Advice on accessing them efficiently
Hi, I'd appreciate tips on the best way to include various templates when proofreading. As a concrete example, consider the running header (rh) template. As a new editor, I'm learning how this template gets used. But the mechanics of inserting it are very labour intensive. I'm currently going out of my editing page to find the page which lists the syntax for the template, then going back in and typing the details manually. Does the editing menu have a way of inserting templates directly? Peterkp (talk) 20:44, 20 September 2023 (UTC)


 * At the risk of inadvertently sounding condescending, have you tried copying and pasting commonly-used templates into a text file and keeping that open as you edit? Note that you can also edit the CSS file of a work and that can sometimes make styling that templates would apply more efficient, assuming you know CSS. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:47, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Not condescending, I'm open to all helpful suggestions. Thank you. Peterkp (talk) 20:56, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Peterkp: If you want to add a running header (or anything else) to the header of pages you're proofreading, and not transclude it, you can add it to the Header field of the index page and put  in place of the page number, and it will be added automatically when you create the page. Index:Broken Ties and Other Stories.pdf has an example of this (and also of index CSS). —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 04:30, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @CalendulaAsteraceae@Koavf@PeterkpAnother option is to enable the 'Running Headers' gadget in your preferences (Preferences - Gadgets (see under 'Editing tools for Page: namespace'). Once you have a couple of pages done it will copy header information from previous pages. The tool appears as a clickable link in the tools list on the LHS of the screen when in editing mode for a page.
 * I also use a clipboard manager rather than having to continue switching back and forth between a text file. The best (free, Windows) one I've found is called 'Ditto'. It will store hundreds of 'clips', which are very easy to search, and very large amounts of text. Chrisguise (talk) 09:07, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Guidance on copyright for illustrations in "The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus" (1902) by Lyman Frank Baum
I have prepared image files for the above and was about to upload them to Commons. When checking for illustrator details (Mary Cowles Clark) it seems she didn't die until 1950. Is it OK to upload to Commons, or should they only be loaded into Wikisource? Chrisguise (talk) 08:51, 24 September 2023 (UTC)


 * All works published in the United States in 1902 are in the public domain. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the author and illustrator were American, so their works are acceptable at Commons as well. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:53, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Both are American. I was just checking, as I'd been caught out in a similar case where the author and illustrator were British. Chrisguise (talk) 09:15, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, for Commons, the work has to be freely licensed or in the public domain in both the United States and the home laws of the creator. In this case, it's the same and all works from 1902 are in the public domain. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:16, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Note that c:File:The life and adventures of Santa Claus (IA lifeadventuresof0baum).pdf exists. If you want to extract images from that PDF, there is the Crop Tool: https://croptool.toolforge.org/ —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:17, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Errors in Strange and wonderful history and prophecies of Mother Shipton
I've been working on transcluding the above work from its index (my first time doing such a thing). As I was going about the process, I noticed that some chapter titles aren't listed properly on the pages, and this seems to be a problem with the book itself. Chapter VI seems to be erroneously listed as chapter V, and chapters VIII–X seem to just be completely unmarked; I can't find them anywhere.

Is there anything I can or should do to resolve this? Is keeping the errors in the text necessary, and should I leave the jump from chapter VII to XI unchanged? Theki (talk) 14:36, 28 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello @Theki,
 * Keep the error in the text (you can something like V.VII. [sic] if you prefer), and just adjust the "section" entry of the header.
 * I can see Chapter VIII. It is on page 17 (it seems like you added the section tags correctly above it for transcluding Chapter VII). Just do something similar to transclude Chapter VIII.
 * Perhaps Chapter XI was erroneously typed, instead of Chapter IX, as the latter would (sensibly) follow Chapter VIII. It would be good to find another source, to see if there are supposed to be 9 chapters, rather than 11? If so, you can just use SIC again, to indicate this, without adjusting the text itself.
 * If so, you should also be able to move the transcluded Chapter 11 to Chapter 9 (Move is in the drop down list in the More tab, just to the right of View History). Then just manually change the previous/next parts of the header, and all should be okay?
 * I also added a tag to the main page of the work.
 * Regards,
 * TeysaKarlov (talk) 22:45, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the help. After looking through other sources it seems that it is the case that the title of "CHAP. XI." is an error, and there are only nine chapters in the book. I've corrected it as such. As for "just adjust the 'section' entry of the header", do you mean I have to edit the section in the header to match what's in the book itself rather than what the chapter number actually is? Theki (talk) 13:12, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Theki. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant the "section" entry should list the correct chapter, while the text itself preserves the original text. Glad it all worked out. TeysaKarlov (talk) 23:10, 29 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Please note that chapters here should use arabic numerals (Chapter 5) and not roman (Chapter V). This is regardless of what the original text uses. (See Help:Subpages) Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:15, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Misaligned text layer in File:A Wreath of Cloud.djvu
This file uploaded with IA-Upload has a misaligned text layer. Could someone assist with fixing (or reimporting) this book? I haven't used the IA-Upload tool and I'm not familiar with DjVu manipulation programs. Anon 126  (talk / contribs) 06:13, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @Anon126: Fixed (and as a bonus you got twice the scan resolution). This bug is annoying, but it's usually easily fixed. Also, in future the best place to post requests like this is at Scan Lab. It's not always very quick, but at least it won't get lost in the noise here. Xover (talk) 11:47, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Replace defective image
Page:A_simplified_grammar_of_the_Polish_language.djvu/14 has been scanned with an errata sheet partially obscuring the page contents. I have found an alternative file that doesn't have this problem. Is there a way to either manually splice the single page image in or else to substitute the files without losing the already proofed pages? Helrasincke (talk) 21:53, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Ok so I figured I could reupload via Wikicommons, but now Page:A_simplified_grammar_of_the_Polish_language.djvu/6 and several others in the first dozen or so pages are displaying the wrong source image. Compare for example the same page at commons. Is this just a simple matter of waiting for the cache to be refreshed or is there something further going on? Can it be fixed or should I delete the page and start the transcription again? Helrasincke (talk) 15:27, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * it's cached. It may take up to a week to clear in some situations. MarkLSteadman (talk) 23:30, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @MarkLSteadman Thank you. Null edits don't seem to work—is there anyway to force a clearing of the cache, or is the best approach just to wait it out? Helrasincke (talk) 10:14, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Helrasincke There are two copies of the same edition on Internet Archives. Check if one is in better condition than the other. You can upload another copy and the worst case scenario is, that it won't work either.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 10:23, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Ineuw Unfortunately neither are appropriate. One has the errata sheet obscuring the first page; the other is missing pages 1-6 entirely. I have sourced a third version of the same edition from google books. Helrasincke (talk) 10:29, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I should have instead uploaded it as a new file rather than replacing the old defective version? Helrasincke (talk) 10:31, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It may be possible to combine the two djvu files together from archive if they are from the same edition. It looks like the correct pages are rendering in general from my spot checking. I am happy to move the pages around if you want. MarkLSteadman (talk) 10:32, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Can't mark pages as proofread
The last two pages I've created I have selected "proofread," but when I "show preview" it switches back to "not proofread" and I can only change the status after saving it, opening it again, and then selecting "proofread." There is also raw HTML spat out instead of the "Page status" hyper-link. 14, 15 TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 18:24, 5 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Ditto, &#32;—ineuw (talk) 23:20, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

P.S. To replicate, in edit mode marking the page 'proofread' and then clicking 'preview' removed the selection.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 23:23, 5 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I think this might've been my fault! :-( It seems related to the recent change to turn the quality radio buttons into an OOUI widget so that it can be infused and work for Edit Recovery. I can't replicate the bug with previewing changing the value back though. I do see the HTML link. Am digging into all this more now. Sam Wilson 00:39, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It looks like the raw HTML link might be from the Site gadget. I'll make a patch and run it by yall. Sam Wilson 00:44, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, nope, of course it's the fact that MediaWiki:Proofreadpage page status contains wikitext. Patch ready for review: c/mediawiki/extensions/ProofreadPage/+/963852.
 * But yeah, I'm still not able to replicate the status-change bug. Any ideas what I might be missing? Sam Wilson 01:29, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The proofread status of the page itself doesn't change but UI doesn't remember which page status button was selected before clicking "show preview" so it defaults back to "not proofread." This bug only seems to happen when creating a page. The bug doesn't occur on a page that has already been created. DraftSaturn15 (talk) 03:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, yep I see it now, thanks! I'll make a fix now. I'm so sorry about this. :( Sam Wilson 04:28, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry to differ. In my case, the pages were created years ago. At the time of writing, It still reverts to "not proofread" but it's really no big deal. Just have to watch it when saving . I will try Preview before Proofread.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 08:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Preview before Proofread works. In reverse, the color reverts to red but the summary still says "Proofread".&#32;— ineuw (talk) 09:12, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Presumably associated with this problem is that the page-status buttons have fallen out of the tab-sequence and they now have to be clicked on. As someone who predominantly uses the keyboard and seldom the mouse, this is a nuisance—particularly as I've wired my brain over the past 14 years to press Tab the right number of times, then the right/left arrows to change the status. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:32, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yep, same root cause. I've created to track this. Sam Wilson 00:43, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Images safe to include?
Hello,

Regarding two texts in the MC:

The first is Index:UAP Independent Study Team - Final Report.pdf, for which many of the images are from either unspecified members of the international space station, navy aviators or even a DoD UAV (a few others are uncredited or independent photographers). I have so far been marking everything with an template. Just wanted to make sure this was the correct way to go.

The other has a graphic rather than an image (Page:ISC-China.pdf/43). Is that safe to include?

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 05:26, 7 October 2023 (UTC)


 * If the images are works produced by NASA, Navy or the DoD they likely can be added as government employees on official duty they can't claim copyright. MarkLSteadman (talk) 01:43, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Text of a protest document posted in a public place in 1983
A two page protest document was pasted onto a public place in Australia in 1983. It's a fairly famous document in its field and led to the establishment of an advocacy group which is still in place. The text of the document has not been published previously, only summaries and descriptions. The person who wrote it is alive and would give a free licence to put it on Wikisource. The person didn't sign the original document and pasted it up anonymously. Can we add the text to Wikisource with the author giving a cc licence? Or can we regard it as an anonymous text and publish it? What copyright procedure can we follow? LPascal (talk) 11:44, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Just a clarification- it might be difficult to get access to and scan the actual original document that was posted in a public place but we have a validated transcription of the text ie a document where the text has been typed up. That's what I'm suggesting we can post to Wikisource. LPascal (talk) 11:48, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @LPascal: Copyright-wise the author can release it under a compatible license (CC-zero and CC BY are both good options; the process to follow is VRT). But a bigger problem is that this text is essentially self-published, making it out of scope for enWS. And since the full text hasn't been published anywhere (cf. "only summaries and descriptions") there appear to be no other editions of the work that would be in scope either. Xover (talk) 13:29, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Xover I have further information about this protest poster. It was written by an individual but on behalf of a lobby group. Members of the lobby group stuck the poster on the door of a public building in 1983 and photos of the poster and people holding it were published in newspapers. Essentially the poster has been published once it was placed in a public place. I have now found a reproduction of the whole text in a 1995 newsletter which has been digitised and is available online. The font for the text in the newsletter is quite gothic and hard to read. It was an effort to be in a similar calligraphy style to the original poster. The reproduced text in the newsletter is hard to read so I would like to transcribe the text onto Wikisource. Is it now OK to do that if I provide a link to the digitised text in the newsletter available online?
 * Secondly, the original poster is in a museum which may possibly be digitising it and making a scan of it available online. Once it is scanned and published on the museum's site, would it be OK to put a transcription on Wikisource? LPascal (talk) 12:54, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Xover Sorry, a bit more clarifying information. The author of words on poster = One individual. The calligrapher of words on the poster = another individual. The publisher of the poster = another third individual who was president of the advocacy group and stuck the poster on the door of the public place, on behalf of the advocacy group. The publisher of the text on the poster = the advocacy group who published the text in its newsletter twelve years later. Therefore the author of the words on the poster was not a self publisher. LPascal (talk) 13:09, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I personally think the self-published rule shouldn't count for works published before 1989. Just saying, it seems like a bit of a stretch. Especially since many of them fell into the public domain by unintentional means (no notice, no renewal, etc.), and the World Wide Web also didn't exist, where I feel like blogs or other similar online user-generated content are what we're primarily trying to weed out. I know this particular one couldn't be in the PD of course, because it was published in Australia, but do we really want to limit works from 1983 to have their place here? I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of our administrators weren't even alive at that time. PseudoSkull (talk) 12:48, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

A Lady's Life in the Rocky Mountains missing pages
I finished proofreading A Lady's Life in the Rocky Mountains. Source page 152 is not readable. Illustration p. 120 and blank page following is missing. Also the ToC links do not work. Please tell me why and how to fix the problem. The links in the header are working. Stamlou (talk) 22:41, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Re pg. 152: This is likely the same or similar to the issue reported here around the PDF renderer https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T343145.
 * Re 120 and the illustration missing: They are missing in the original scan as uploaded from the Internet Archive. You can request help at the Scan Lab for help inserting the pages into the file from a different scan.
 * Re the TOC links: This is because of the capitalization on the TOC page from A lady's life in the Rocky Mountains/Letter X to A Lady's Life in the Rocky Mountains/Letter X
 * MarkLSteadman (talk) 02:25, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Really appreciate your help. Thank you. Stamlou (talk) 19:23, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Single page in landscape orientation
Hello,

I would like to prepare this page, which shows a set of four images with a caption in landscape orientation, in an otherwise portrait oriented work. I am not sure how to start working with it. Should I write the page rotated, readable from the side? Should it instead be straight? I'd be grateful for any suggestions and, if needed, links to relevant templates for writing a full page in landscape mode.

Sincerely, ElMagyar (talk) 14:35, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ElMagyar: For this, we consider that the only reason the page is flipped is because of space constraints. Therefore, we switch the pictures and caption to portrait orientation. Happy proofreading! TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:58, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, @TE(æ)A,ea., I'll carry on as you suggest. ElMagyar (talk) 07:23, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Finding an index for Esperanto self-taught
Hello. I want to add the index of the book : Esperanto self-taught. Can someone help me find or upload the index to wikisource ? HenriLeFoll (talk)
 * Two links for Esperanto self-taught : hathitrust - bekerley (U.S. limited access)
 * archive.org learn esperanto is the same book but I don't know if I can upload this book to commons and wikisource.
 * @HenriLeFoll: That book appears to be still in copyright, so cannot be uploaded to any Wikimedia project. --Xover (talk) 16:01, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Do you know when the copyright end ? HenriLeFoll (talk) 16:12, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @HenriLeFoll: This book was published in 1908; it's not in copyright. I've uploaded it to Wikisource and created an index at Index:Esperanto Self-Taught.pdf, but I noticed after uploading that the scan has a number of duplicate pages. I'll let you know when I've fixed it. Fixed! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 06:31, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much. HenriLeFoll (talk) 10:11, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Music sheet needed


Could a music sheet be attempted to be created from the above image? It appears on The Sea Beast (1926).webm at 1:31:55 (transcription currently ongoing). Are you the score extension expert here? PseudoSkull (talk) 02:20, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This seems a bit too faded to read (especially the chords), so I’ve ordered the original. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 02:36, 13 October 2023 (UTC)


 * As T says this is too difficult to read, however I do have a copy of the score in my files. Is it just this first couple of staves? Or does the rest of the score follow it? I've no idea how to use .webm files so don't know how to look. The first two staves as in the screenshot are at User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox5. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:46, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, it worked on the transcription at The Sea Beast! If you ever need help working with webm files message me (there should be a video player in your browser that comes up on Wikimedia Commons), but only the image I provided was used in the film. PseudoSkull (talk) 12:41, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Font sizes for side note templates
Hi, I just find that when used with smaller (eg., same for Outside R/LR/RL templates), side note templates now produce excessively small fonts, which aren't that small a few weeks ago. Are there changes inside the templates that make the font using Outside L/R/LR/RL smaller?廣九直通車 (talk) 13:24, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Neither template has been edited recently, but to be clear, both of them have relative font sizes, so nesting them should make the resulting font 83% of 83% of the base. It's possible that the styles here at en.ws have changed, but I find it unlikely. In reality, we should have more sophisticated CSS to ensure that font sizes don't get too small, etc., which requires a lot of forethought and testing. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:27, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. What I mean is that if you see Prevention of Bribery Ordinance 1970 that I worked on, you'll see the marginal notes for section headers are awfully small, and for legislation chapter numbers (eg. "(Cap. 227)", which is printed even smaller on the Gazette), you will definitely need to enlarge to see it. The problem is that this style/CSS/whatever else change affects many legislation (most are dealt by me) on a scale that is hard to be rectified one by one.廣九直通車 (talk) 00:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Update: Just done some comparison using archived pages on the Wayback Machine, and it seems that it's more probably due to my browser's upgrade? Never mind thank you for double checking with the templates.廣九直通車 (talk) 12:23, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Adding missing table of contents entries
In, I've used the "Table of the Articles and Treatises" from the volume as the main table of contents. I think in general it works pretty well, but I have found that two articles are missing from it ( and ), presumably due to an oversight.

Is there any way to add the missing articles to the ToC, while making it clear that they were not listed in the original work? Bloated Dummy (talk) 20:31, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Bloated Dummy: You can use auxTOC. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 20:56, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I know about AuxTOC, but I can't just put it like... in the middle of a page, can I? Bloated Dummy (talk) 21:04, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, you can. The template can be inserted within existing tables of contents where missing entries should appear. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I tried it, but it doesn't look great. It's centered, and the text is bolded, so it doesn't fit well with the rest of the TOC. Do you know any examples of works that use AuxTOC in this way? Bloated Dummy (talk) 18:24, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Plainlist template fails to indent the paragraphs
I applied the template to a block of paragraphs, but I must be doing something wrong. Can someone please look at what is wrong whenever possible.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 16:57, 22 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @Ineuw: plainlist just applies styles to a list; you need to provide the list itself separately. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 20:59, 22 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Much thanks for the explanation, but I am confused by two issues. There were changes on how this template worked in the past, because I kept my old notes. The other issue is that I am unable to close the template parameter "hanging-indent" properly and had to devise an unorthodox method to do so. Could you please take a look at it at your convenience? Thanks.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 07:10, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Problem with template
In Page:The Great Didactic of John Amos Comenius (1896).pdf/13 there is a TOC line "Introduction I.—Biographical", but after transclusion to the main NS it gives "Introduction III.—Biographical", probably because the template does not work as expected. May I ask what the problem could be and how it can be fixed? -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 17:02, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @Jan.Kamenicek: You've hit a deep MediaWiki bug. The problem is the use of ditto inside namespace link (well, most likely; I didn't test it). Workarounds are to either remove the namespace link (which, IMO, shouldn't be used for this in any case) or to insert a dummy  (two empty params so the output is empty too) somewhere before the one that's currently broken (e.g. right above the toc). Xover (talk) 10:34, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not know how or why, but the suggested workaround with the empty ditto does work :-) Thanks! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:44, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah it's deep technobabble territory. But the problem happens when the first occurrence of a template on a page is inside a wikilink, and the workaround is to make sure that template gets called first somewhere outside a wikilink. Depending on the specific case that can mean putting the link inside the template instead of the template inside the link; dropping an unnecessary link/template (like the namespace link here); or adding a dummy instance of that template somewhere before the real one. Not all templates can be made to produce no visible output, but we can probably hack up a solution in most cases. Xover (talk) 12:05, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Index:Thaler v. Hirshfeld.pdf
For some reason, the file here doesn’t load. I’ve tried purging caches, &c., but nothing seems to work. Any ideas? (Is it just me?) TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 03:07, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Not just you. This file looks to be broken in some way that MediaWiki can't deal with, so no amount of cache refreshing is likely to fix it. Xover (talk) 10:23, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Three suggestions for improving edit time.
&#32;— ineuw (talk) 07:38, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) When Tesseract finishes, would it be possible to terminate the cursor position in the top row of the 'text area'?
 * 2) Would it be also possible that at the termination of same process, to reset the image to the 'original size'?
 * 3) Reducing the preview text width to the approximate width of the side by side editing mode? This is already implemented on French Wikisource, but I have no clue how. My vector.css of both en. and fr. are the same. preview a page in French Wikisource.


 * The CSS code snippet used to narrow the Preview display width in side by side edit mode is:

/* preview content box */ margin-right:50% !important; } &#32;— ineuw (talk) 02:30, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) wikiPreview.ontop {

Tables split by columns across pages
Hello, I'm currently transcribing a work where tables are split vertically across facing pages, such that each pair of facing pages is viewed as a single page. Example: left half, right half. The table rows also continue in the following pairs of pages.

Is there a way to join tables column-wise between pages, in addition to the usual row-wise joins? I wasn't able to find any other examples but perhaps someone else has already found a solution to this problem.

Thanks! Kbseah (talk) 22:19, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * A common approach is to transcribe the whole table in one page only and mark the other page as without text. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:59, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed. There is no way to do this with tables in HTML (tables are inherently row-oriented). Transcribing all the content from the two facing pages onto the first page is the usual approach for this. Xover (talk) 05:51, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * When doing this I leave comments on the pages indicating what I've done so that the validator and other readers who want to see the original scans understand what's going on. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:17, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Beeswaxcandle @Jan.Kamenicek @Xover for the advice! I was hoping there was some template that I had overlooked, but alas! Kbseah (talk) 22:46, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Formatting books
So apparently there's a marxism.org that has several public-domain translations of Lenin that we haven't copied over to Wikisource yet. Some of these are books, not pamphlets, and they need tables of contents and different pages for each chapter. Now how do we do that? 2603:7000:D03A:5895:A978:F848:5AD2:920A 17:32, 5 November 2023 (UTC)


 * While a simple and valid question, this requires a pretty complex answer. Start with Help:Contents or with reverse engineering the tables of contents of other works. Barring that, if you were just interested in proofreading the thousands of pages of text that don't require special formatting, that's a good start. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:49, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * How complicated can writing a Table of Contents with links to the chapters be? Also, as I mentioned, marxism.org has already turned the translations into plain text and put them online, so almost certainly proofread. 2603:7000:D03A:5895:A978:F848:5AD2:920A 18:19, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There are dozens of templates to format tables of contents, because--as I'm sure you know--books have virtually infinite kinds of formatting, so it can be complex and intricate trying to reproduce these formats in MediaWiki text. It's great that sources like Marxism.org or Project Gutenberg have accessible plain text or simple HTML, but while we do not require it, we have a preference for adding texts alongside scans of the original work. So the plain text is a handy start, but purely copying and pasting them here is not optimal. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:36, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Please post a link to the books. When we see them, we'll post some examples of TOC that are best suitable.&#32;— ineuw (talk) 20:34, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You're overthinking it. I'm not asking you how to copy the Table of Contents exactly as it appears in the original translation. I only want to build an interactable TOC page and a web page for each chapter, which is still a lot. If you want to be that specific you can do that yourself. 2603:7000:D03A:5895:A978:F848:5AD2:920A 22:32, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * To put it simply, you would have a main page that likely includes a cover, table of contents, prefatory material, etc. at "Work" and then subpages like "Work/Chapter 1" and the table of contents would include links in the style " Chapter 1 ". Our goal is to make a typographic reproduction, but not a photographic one, so we try to reproduce the semantics and style as much as possible with some allowances and including features like the one you mention of having interactive hypertext links. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:35, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay? That doesn't really address the question, and neither does the link you gave. I want a web page for each chapter, and I want a TOC with links to each chapter. I need the full instructions. 2603:7000:D03A:5895:A978:F848:5AD2:920A 12:45, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Here is an example of a scanbacked page with TOC with links to each chapter: The Diary of a PilgrimageHere is an example of non-scanbacked page with TOC with links to each chapter: The Clicking of Cuthbert.Hope these examples will help. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:58, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

This conversation seems to me that the OP is not really interested in advancing his project, but simply argue. I think that you are wasting your time. &#32;— ineuw (talk) 23:48, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Smallcaps letters in formulas
I'm looking for a way to have letters in formulas written using the   command for that, but it doesn't work in  ) where you want the insertion point to be. Xover (talk) 06:40, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Importing a module from Wikipedia
I want to import a module from Wikipedia: w:Module:Tabular data, but I don't have the user rights to import pages. Would somebody please do it for me? Heyzeuss (talk) 20:27, 15 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @Heyzeuss: What's your intended use case for this? Xover (talk) 07:16, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It's for lists of book chapters and corresponding page numbers. It will help with making page headers and TOCs. See  discussion. Heyzeuss (talk) 08:37, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm. You're proposing transcribing the toc in a scanned book to a data table on Commons and then using a template to dynamically generate a formatted toc in the Page: namespace? Xover (talk) 08:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's one example. At the moment I'm making a template and module, utilizing tabular data, for pre-filling header template parameters in the main namespace. Heyzeuss (talk) 09:55, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's an entirely unproblematic idea. Moving the toc from the corresponding Page:-namespace wikipage disconnects it from the scan and undermines the very purpose of Proofread Page (side-by-side proofreading). It also introduces a significant added layer of complexity (non-technical users will not be able to navigate this, technical users will have to expend effort to do so), and it removes core content from our local control (e.g. for patrolling vandalism, handling page moves, etc.). And why would we want to generate header parameters from ad hoc tabular data on Commons instead of from structured data on Wikidata, or similar structured data (e.g. the Index:) locally?In other words, I am having trouble seeing the upsides but there are a number of fairly significant downsides to this approach. Xover (talk) 10:02, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You made a good point that the content needs to be linked to the scans, and that storing tabular data about chapters in Commons disconnects content from scans. This is a problem, and a better solution would be to keep chapter descriptions in the page namespace. This can be solved by using TOC templates that utilize a concise tabular format. {{t|TOCstyle does this.
 * The other use that I had for tabular data was in deploying content to the main namespace. I made a Lua module and a template called Template:Chapterpage to assist in making header templates and blocks in the main namespace. You can paste in the same template with the same parameters on each chapter subpage. There's no need to input chapter numbers or page numbers. This reduces keyboard work. Here's an example implementation: Signs and Wonders God Wrought in the Ministry for Forty Years/Chapter 22, via a shortcut template. Heyzeuss (talk) 15:37, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * What is the advantage of having an additional template with different syntax in place of the currently required header template? You state that it reduces keyboard work, but this will only be true if parts are sequential with all pages of identical content.  But many works have illustration pages, table which span two pages, or have facing pages of text in two different languages, or have chapter divisions partway through a page.  The slight keyboard effort saved is a minimal advantage over all the situations not covered by this new template plus the additional maintenance and need for understanding an additional template syntax. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:33, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

How to transcribe a centred image floating in the middle of text
Easier to show than tell perhaps: how should I handle Page:George McCall Theal, Ethnography and condition of South Africa before A.D. 1505 (2nd ed, 1919).djvu/90? At the moment I have transcribed it as it appears, but the image cuts a sentence in half. - Htonl (talk) 09:44, 17 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @Htonl: Yes, that's correct. The original was published with the sentence interrupted, so it follows that we reproduce it the same way. Xover (talk) 11:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thank you. Htonl (talk) 13:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)


 * You can also consider using . I personally prefer this solution, because it does not interrupt the text in the middle of the line, instead, the text is dynamically allowed to flow until the end of the line (as in the original publication, although not exactly after the same word) and only then it is interrupted. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I've edited Page:George McCall Theal, Ethnography and condition of South Africa before A.D. 1505 (2nd ed, 1919).djvu/90 to use the suggested template. As long as you insert the img template in-line, without introducing line breaks, it will wrap the text before and after automatically to fit the page width when displayed.


 * You have some leeway to adjust the position of the image, since most books will place the image so as to vertically center it on the page, rather than with regard to paragraph breaks. Since we transclude works without regard to page breaks, and or transcluded works will not vertically center images on a "page", a nudge can be made in transcription.  But if the concern is interrupting a sentence, the Img float takes care of the issue. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:32, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

.epub download on Wikisource rarely works
Hi! Four times this month I tried to download an .epub of a book from Wikisource, using the link https://wsexport.wmflabs.org/tool/book.php?lang=pl&format=epub&page= (and book name here; today it was "Moskal"; dots inserted as my message was marked as spam, no idea why). It worked only once out of four, with most times the connection to the server being lost and this particular service seems to be down almost all of the time ("Wikimedia Cloud Services Error. This web service cannot be reached. Please contact a maintainer of this project"). This is the only service across all of the Wikipedia projects that I encounter constant problems with. Can anything be done about it? Thanks in advance! Amused (talk) 20:24, 22 November 2023 (UTC)


 * You're right, it's not a very reliable tool! :-( It comes down to the fact (I think) that we're running Calibre on the same server to generate the PDFs. Creating Epubs is fine, mostly, but then Calibre, take up all the memory and everything is bad. The solution is probably T345406, which is a bit of a big job. I've wondered about splitting off a separate VPS and having that for the PDF requests… maybe that'd be quicker to get going. Sam Wilson 06:53, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Samwilson: Do we have stats on epub vs. PDF downloads? If the problem is isolated to PDF-generation, would it make sense to simply disable that until a more robust architecture is in place? What's the use case for PDF downloads that can't be covered by epub? If we ignore scrapers and bots, PDF seems mostly useful on desktop, which I presume to be a small fraction of hits, and most desktops can deal with epub in some fashion even if the user prefers PDF (probably due to the reader rather than the file format as such). I know I prefer to read in Preview rather than iBooks on my Macbook, but then I very rarely do vs. downloading the epub on my phone. Xover (talk) 09:34, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I forgot to reply here. There are stats available at https://ws-export.wmcloud.org/statistics and PDF is reasonably popular. Certainly, lots of people definitely prefer it to Epub (although I suspect just because of familiarity). I've wondered for years if we could make it clearer that the Epub is the source format for the others, and perhaps encourage people to get Calibre themselves. But really it feels like a losing argument, because everyone "knows that PDF is best". :-/ Anyway, I'm going to look into the separate VPS idea a bit more! Sam Wilson 06:45, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Samwilson: thanks for the answer! Maybe instead of generating them every time it'd be possible just to do it once for entire books and simply attach the file? English-language wikisource isn't the only good place to get English-language epubs of works in public domain, but for some less popular languages it's often the only way they can be accessed in that format (I'm thinking of Polish wikisource now which is basically the only reliable place to get properly done epubs of stuff printed before 1939...). Perhaps this would be a solution at least for some time? Amused (talk) 11:13, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It's a good point, and one we've thought about a few times. There is a fair amount of caching going on, so it's not too awful to generate them every time. But you're right, we could be doing a lot more especially with regard to PDFs and other derivative formats (i.e that are based on the Epubs). Sam Wilson 06:46, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Duplicated pages
In The Works of H. G. Wells: Vol. 10 we have found, so far, three duplicate scans/pages. There might be more, I haven't checked out the whole thing. Perhaps a more experienced user could help us out. I stopped proofreading that particular volume; not being sure if the proofreading already done will be available after a new scan is available. Tromaster (talk) 00:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I suggest posting the issue at Scan Lab, where such things can be corrected. The more information you can provide, the better. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:29, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, you can just mark them as "without text" (explaining it on their talk page) and exclude them from transclusion. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:09, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Jan, that's what I did. Tromaster (talk) 15:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Conversations with Lord Byron by the Countess of Blessington
Hi! I am very new to Wikisource (though I've been reading books from here for a long time and am duly grateful for your work) and have just commenced my first big transcription project - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Journal_of_Conversations_with_Lord_Byron.pdf. Could you please help me with it? Which categories should I add? How do I compose the table of contents? At which point can the work be marked as transcluded? Can I add it to the "works on" in the Lord Byron wikisource article? Thanks a lot in advance Joannaszulcm (talk) 23:50, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Joannaszulcm: Welcome!
 * You can make internal links like this:  to get Index:Journal of Conversations with Lord Byron.pdf. It's a good idea to use internal links when possible—among other things, it means the pages where you link the index will show up in the "What links here" page for a work, e.g. Special:WhatLinksHere/Index:Journal of Conversations with Lord Byron.pdf.
 * You should only categorize the index page in project management categories, not in categories that are used to categorize works or author pages.
 * If the work has a table of contents, you can add wikilinks and use it as a table of contents for the work. If not, you can use AuxTOC.
 * The work can be transcluded to mainspace when all the pages have been proofread, and the index can be marked as transcluded when all the pages in the work have been transcluded (except for the pages that don't need to be transcluded).
 * Yes, you can add this work to Author:George Gordon Byron.
 * —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 04:03, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you! how do I find/invite more people to help me with this transcription project? Joannaszulcm (talk) 13:17, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If you need help with a specific problem, you can ask here any time, and somebody will surely respond. If you seek more people to transcribe the work with, you can try proposing the work at the collaborative project Proofread of the Month (for new proposals see Wikisource talk:Proofread of the Month). --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:06, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Problems with Dropped Initial
Hello, I have an issue with dropped inital (maybe related to poem tags).

On Page:Poems Nora May French.djvu/19 (and others) it worked fine, but on Page:Poems Nora May French.djvu/20 (and others), although I cannot figure what I did differently, instead of the next line being to the right of the inital, it appears below it, leaving a blank line.

Could someone please explain to me what I did ?

(Oh, and, I am not sure if this is the place I should be asking this, sorry if it isn't.)

Thanks, Alien333 (talk) 14:57, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For some reason the dropped initial template does not work well in poems where the second line is longer than the initial line. I do not know whether there is any systematic solution, but a workaround might be setting the width of the block:

giving: HE rain was grey before it fell,
 * And through a world where light had died

There ran a mournful little wind
 * That shook the trees and cried.


 * BTW, I suggest using the template instead of the  tags. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:50, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll try !
 * (If it's better, maybe ppoem should be mentioned on Help:Poetry.) Alien333 (talk) 16:10, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikisource and PDF file
Dear all,

In our Mon community (Mon people from Burma and Thailand), we are a significant collection of palm-leaf manuscripts and free ebooks, all stored in PDF format. Recognizing the value of sharing knowledge freely, we are considering Wikimedia's projects as the ideal platform. Specifically, we are contemplating Wikisource. However, we are uncertain about the possibility of uploading PDF files to Wikisource.

Currently, the Mon Community actively participates in two projects, Wikipedia and Wiktionary. If Wikisource allows the upload of PDF files, we are eager to initiate a new project dedicated to Wikisource in the Mon language.

Your advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you. Htawmonzel (talk) 14:32, 17 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Htawmonzel: In general terms this sounds like exactly what Wikisource is for. However, there are a lot of details that will need to be figured out.For one thing, the overall Wikisource project is split into multiple per-language sub projects. This is the English Wikisource, and since I presume the manuscripts are not in English they would be out of scope here for that reason. If there is no specific Wikisource for the relevant language we have a Multilingual Wikisource that may be an option. I don't think there is a separate Wikisource for Mon yet—neither Modern Mon (mnw) nor Old Mon (omx)—so I believe mulWS would be appropriate.There was also a Balinese palm-leaf manuscript project a while back that figured out a lot of the associated issues. I believe that project was supported by the Wikimedia Foundation in some fashion. It would be wise to look up that project and discuss their experiences before starting your own (@Samwilson: are you familiar with that project by any chance? I just saw some stuff scroll by in Phab updates so I know it exists but not much more).PS. PDF files are certainly permitted, but files should generally be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons where they can be accessed from all projects. Xover (talk) 14:52, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, and keep in mind that both Wikisource and Wikimedia Commons requires all hosted content to be either public domain (typically through expiration of copyright) or licensed under a compatible license like e.g. a Creative Commons license. Merely being free in terms of price, or being made available to the public, is insufficient. Xover (talk) 14:57, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Do you know how to get start. Is it necessary to create an incubator page? Htawmonzel (talk) 16:52, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Unlike other projects such as Wikipedia, there's usually no need to start an Incubator site for Wikisources, because we have Multilingual Wikisource (which is at wikisource.org with no subdomain). It has the same side-by-side proofreading system that is available on all Wikisources. You can get started by a) uploading a PDF to Commons, so that it has a filename such as e.g. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Example_Mon_manuscript.pdf and then b) setting it up for proofreading on Multilingual Wikisource, e.g. https://wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Example_Mon_manuscript.pdf . The Balinese project did some palmleaf works on Multilingual Wikisource (e.g. Index:Bali-lontar-carcan-kucing-250ppi.pdf) but now has moved to a full project at https://ban.wikisource.org . Sam Wilson 23:36, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion at User talk:Sije/Mishneh Torah/Introduction/Transmission of the Oral Law
You are invited to join the discussion at User talk:Sije/Mishneh Torah/Introduction/Transmission of the Oral Law. Sije (talk) 21:11, 28 December 2023 (UTC)