Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2015

Can pages with mixed up words be redone ?
Why do some pages have the words of the right column interspersed with the words of the left column while other pages have the words of each column clearly separated ?

Index:Woman's_who's_who_of_America,_1914-15.djvu

Robin2014 (talk) 14:38, 1 January 2015 (UTC)


 * This has to do with how the text layer of the file was generated. Typically, this is done outside Wikisource, and whether the columns are mixed or not can depend on a variety of factors. Ultimately, it comes down to the quality of the scan and how smart the OCR software was. I have one work started that I have put onto a lengthy pause because of this problem, but in my case it's a result of the OCR having trouble with a text where there is a single block of body text and two columns of smaller font footnotes on every page. The body text came out fine, but the footnotes are all garbled together.


 * One option would be to use OCR on your own computer, copying and re-interpreting the text block by block. Anyone assisting you would probably be doing something similar. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:46, 1 January 2015 (UTC)


 * In general, we don't assemble as a column but as a page, which I recommend, as it was done here. Still it's a hell of a job to assemble the paragraphs line by line. I would follow EncycloPetey's advice and try both methods to find your preference.— Ineuw talk 23:00, 1 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I have proofread a few pages of this book. If I understand the history tab of the index page it seems this book was added June 2011. I was thinking that perhaps the OCR process had improved so that it would be productive to redo this book.  The book file is at wikicommons.  Should I - for now [until I find this to be futile] - marked the pages where the words from right side are interspersed with left side as 'problematic' and continue to proofread the pages where the words are in alignment. ? Robin2014 (talk) 16:31, 2 January 2015 (UTC)


 * You could selectively work on pages, of course, but "re-doing" the OCR for the file would mean having the file reprocessed at the Internet Archive, where the file actually originated. It is not something we normally do here. The IA have a rather sophisticated OCR process that they use. However, there is no guarantee that running the process again would improve the results for a work in columns, and no certainty as to what sort of priority they would assign the task. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:59, 2 January 2015 (UTC)


 * There are for "different" copies available on Internet Archive. The 1st is the one you worked on (a Rutgers University contribution), the 2nd and 3rd are from Google/Harvard both of which are very poor copies, and this one donated by the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center. with this text layer. Look at this text and if it's better, then we can replace the Index file. This means that you should copy out the proofread text pages and store them somewhere because they would be lost.— Ineuw talk 18:36, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
 * My guess is that text will not change, as pages have already been 'saved'. Concerned pages will have to be overwritten (or better deleted, so the new text layer will be fetched).--Mpaa (talk) 18:50, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I am not sure if it's by the same publisher with the same pagination. GO3 would be my source for accurate info in such matters. I meant that Robin2014 should copy the few proofread pages and place them in the user's subfolder just in case to save the past effort.— Ineuw talk 19:13, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Why is everyone talking only about the pre-existing text layer? WS text layer can also be generated by clicking the OCR button. I usually use this method and have found it to be reasonably accurate. Alternatively, the pdf file can be downloaded from IA and run through an OCR like ABBYY FineReader or some such. That may give result different from IA, although they also use this OCR. Hrishikes (talk) 02:11, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, it can be done that way, but it means that the supporting Source file is missing that layer. We prefer to have a complete source file on Commons, with all the available layers in place. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:02, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

While EncycloPetey is correct in saying there is no guarantee [re]running the derive process at the Internet Archive will improve the quality of the scan images, the embedded text or both, there are some clues one should look for in formulating the optimal selection for us to host. Typically, the choices facing possible contributors comes between the existing, multiple hostings of a work @ IA and/or the decision to re-derive any particular copy of those existing work(s). Since the particular work mentioned earlier happens to be the oddity rather than the norm @ IA, the following will be a short primer pointing to those clues. Opening the index page for before-mentioned, IA hosted work, we get...  Index of /10/items/womanswhoswhoofa00leon/ Without diving too deep into the details just yet, one thing is obvious -- the source file uploaded to Commons is approximately 4-years, 3-months old already. How old was the source file uploaded to Internet Archive that produced the file ultimately uploaded to Commons? Can't say with any certainty but for our argument's sake, lets say this book was scanned and the resulting file or files were uploaded for processing by IA on the same day. So what does a 4.3 year difference make? You tell me. Our example file's derive history highlights on the left and a 2 day old file's derive history highlights to the right -- note the (v##### or version no. for each. Not only have the modules and software been updated in those 4 some-odd years but we are presented with an unusual opportunity in this case. Look closer at the Index of files for our example... notice the .PDF file (line 4) is not the "oldest" file of the bunch? This means it wasn't the original source file uploaded to IA for processing but one of the result products of the processing. The .tar archive (line 17) of presumably 1 .jp2 file for every 1 page scanned is the source file. Now a bad scan is bad scan and no amount of re-jiggering will dramatically improve on resulting quality of files derived. The flip side being a good-scan is a good scan and re-running the latest derive modules and updated software against it will likely improve results one way or the other - maybe even all around (i.e. better thumbnails and a superior text-layer). So what should you take away from all this... INVEST SOME TIME and RESEARCH into what you select for upload & hosting by us and stop letting the 'eye candy of the moment' guide your decision making for you!!! -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:08, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oops, a full-scale Ph.D. thesis! Anyway, good scan and good OCR software is needed for good OCR text, no argument about that. But after that, the human element is also important, otherwise, bots could have done all the proofreading. However good your text layer may be, it is not likely to be perfect; some pains has to be taken by a member of the human species too! The works I am doing at present (list at my user page), while notable in their own fields, most are very difficult to render digitally, what with bad scan, diacritical marks, unicode characters, problematic formatting, lots of pictures, nearly illegible pages, even missing pages -- which I have to hunt out from alternate sources. But, to tell the truth, with all your blessings, I am doing fine, with time-to-time help from the experts. Not being techno-savvy at all, I rely mostly on the human element. Moreover, if machines can do all the work bar the finishing touches, then where is the challenge for the human mind? Hrishikes (talk) 06:01, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It was not my intention to step on anyone's toes or to belittle someone's point of view -- merely to offer my learned approach to this particular subject matter. The fact the work in question was the exception to the norm was the real reason I felt more detail would only enhance comprehension. Nevertheless - I beg to differ with your point. "Bots" should be doing as much -- if not all -- the proofreading and layout as possible. Had some smart soul developed a way by now to use the coordinate mapping found in basic XML formats that are compiled from dimensions set in stone at the time of scanning and then re-addressed again when characters are associated with those coordinates (OCR'd), then all us humans would be concerned with is just validating the work of Bots. The way things stand now (and for the foreseeable future) we get a plain text dump by what can never be mistaken for a Bot and have to do both the proofreading And the validating never mind the layouts. Q: When will humans rise up and demand Bots do more for Wikisource? A: Not any time soon; they are still too busy compensating for typewriter-era line-feeds, carriage returns, non-breaking hyphens and unwanted whitespace every session to stop long enough to formally protest anything. :) -- George Orwell III (talk) 06:47, 3 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I have learned a few things from this discussion. There seem to be 2 items - First - the IA copy from Allen Co Public Library  says digitized in 2014 BUT I noticed that it is missing pg 22 and pages like 824-825 have a few letters cut off in the binding fold.  However, its text file has some pages that have better ocr results, e.g. p36 that I could use to cut and paste paragraphs as I proofread the existing file on Wikisource.

Second - "we are presented with an unusual opportunity in this case .." What does it take to re-run the latest derive modules ? Robin2014 (talk) 16:02, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Page:A_Treatise_on_Electricity_and_Magnetism_-_Volume_1.djvu/123
Currently as text, but marked as problematic as there was a penciled Erattum?

Correct using pencilled erattum or not?. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:03, 4 January 2015 (UTC)


 * No. The pencil marks are not the text as published. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:10, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, Might be worth an annotation though. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:58, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Only in a separate version of the text, per the annotations policy. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:48, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Legal status of Wikipedia "public domain" designation
Gentlemen:

I have recently written a short book on the early history of aviation. This book contains many images from Wikipedia which bear the designation "Public Domain". The publisher with whom I am negotiating the publication of this book has taken the position that the label of an image as in the public domain because Wikipedia is subject to editing by any interested party, and the 'public domain_ designation may be invalid because of external editing.

Is this indeed the case? Can the "public domain" designation be the result of editing by unauthorized parties?

Robert L White

rlwhite450@gmail.com


 * Hello Robert: This is not Wikipedia. However, I believe you will find the information you are looking for at w:Wikipedia:Image use policy.—Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Robert. First of, let me quickly apologize for rather vague language I'm about to use (and that some others might also use). The main reason for this is that if I say anything which turns out to be wrong, and this would be considered legal advice, all sorts of punishment might be my share. Possibly even if I'm not wrong, as since I'm not a lawyer, I'm not qualified to give legal advice, and may not allowed to give any legal advice at all in some jurisdictions, even if it's correct. I'm not sure about all of that, I'm not a lawyer. All this stuff is rather icky. So the following is expressly not legal advice and only my understanding of public domain images on the Wikimedia projects. As I understand it, images according to US law in the public domain can be reused legally in the United States without any further copyright obligations. If our images are tagged as public domain, that means "some dude(tte) on the internet" determined that the image is in the public domain. That's not a very strong claim. The community around our image database, which is called Wikimedia Commons, are very aware of copyright and follow a very strict interpretation of it. These particular people on the internet care a great deal about copyright and correctly identifying public domain, and I'm convinced that the vast majority of images is tagged correctly. But it's true; anyone could have changed that label, and somehow escaped scrutiny, and the label might be wrong. This doesn't seem to be true for a particularly large fraction of images, but I'm quite certain there exist images that are incorrectly tagged. I would consider it prudent to always double check. If an image has a public domain tag, it will show why the image supposedly is in the public domain. You can check if what the label says is indeed true for yourself. I hope you will then find that all images are correctly tagged, but you might find exceptions, which would be really regrettable, and not our aim at all, but it is nevertheless possible. I hope this at least somewhat helps. grammared for edit, since I can't language Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 10:58, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You speak the England gooder than many. ;-) — billinghurst  sDrewth  14:32, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * In short, you will need to due diligence on any image that you use, though hopefully we (Commons) have sufficient provenance on the image to allow you to confirm that fact. To also note that there is a difference between English Wikipedia, and Wikimedia Commons. Many of the images used at enWP are from Commons, though some will be locally stored, though each should have a copyright statement. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:15, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Image/Caption formatting
Seeking the best way to format the image and caption on this page. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:17, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The last thing you tried looks good to me. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:56, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. I wasn't sure about using running header.  Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:48, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Starting/ending sections mid-paragraph
I need to start a section (for the purpose of transcluding) in the middle of a paragraph, but everything I've tried either fails to create the section or creates a paragraph break. Is this possible somehow? If not, could it be implemented? --Jellby (talk) 19:49, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep second portion of the paragraph within noinclude tag. Then put section tag and repeat the second portion within includeonly tag. However, if the author had intended separate section, would it have been put in the same paragraph? Hrishikes (talk) 01:32, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That shows fine in the Page: namespace, but when transcluding the whole page (no section restriction) I see the paragraph break anyway. As for the use, this is in the "Thousand and One Nights", whith stories within stories that end in the middle of a paragraph (there are no paragraph breaks), but I want to tag the sections, so I can transclude the stories separately. --Jellby (talk) 11:54, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * A pointer to an example might be appropriate here and a good practice to follow in the future - all I find on my own is stuff set up for a match n' spit. If I somehow miss your reply, I'd try adding opening and closing &lt;P tags to the paragraph where the split (or whatever you mean) occurs. -- George Orwell III (talk) 12:05, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Paragraph split should not occur in pagespace, but it should occur in mainspace, otherwise how would you indicate section demarcation? You can either transclude the sections separately as different articles using the normal fromsection/tosection method, or, if you want multiple sections within the same article, you can use the wikipedia method, as for the section Nil Durpan/First Act. In case you want to transclude the whole page at a time without employing section tag, then you can put the section marker items within includeonly tag, e.g. dhr, rule, section header (section name, centered, larger, bold etc.) If you don't want paragraph break in mainspace, how do you propose the section demarcation should look like? Please specify the djvu page, the articlespace, and exactly what your desire is, so that the members here can understand what to do; then someone may come along with the "how" part. Hrishikes (talk) 12:49, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

An example is Page:The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night, Vol 1.djvu/42, which belongs to three different stories. The first part is in The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night/The First Old Man’s Story, the second in The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night/The Merchant and the Genie, the third in The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night/The Second Old Man’s Story. The problem is the separation between the first and second parts is implicit. If the different sections are only transcluded separately, as it is done right now, there's no real problem; but If I wanted to transclude the whole page as-is, an unwanted paragraph break would appear in his blood.’ Quoth the genie. I've noticed that if I include the ## label ## tag at the end of a line (with no linebreak before), it works, but the text is reformatted such that when I edit the page again I have to remove the linebreak, otherwise ## label ## is placed in its own line and the paragraph break occurs. --Jellby (talk) 13:44, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't see the first problem, see here. Second problem is caused because label tag creates its own line, you need to remove the line-break every time you open the page in edit window. Hrishikes (talk) 14:12, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, the problem is fixed with the trick I mentioned. But the "second problem" means one always has to remove the linebreak every time the page is modified, even if the modification does not directly affect the label tag (or even if there is no change at all). This makes me think that maybe this solution is only a side effect, and not guaranteed to work in the future. --Jellby (talk) 14:31, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, your page is unstable and may change even during validation if the validator does not know the problem. Matter for code-experts like GO3. Hrishikes (talk) 14:47, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * This is one of the reasons that I don't use the "easy LST" version of sections. I recommend turning off the gadget and using the "old" style of section markers. See Help:Transclusion for some details. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:10, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It doesn't help if someone else edits the page later and he/se has "easy LST" on, does it? --Jellby (talk) 18:36, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Blanks
Index:The museum, (Jackson, Marget Talbot, 1917).djvu, pp. 243 to 253 are 'form' blanks and I'm not sure how to format these, suggestions would be appreciated. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:18, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It might be best to handle these forms as images. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:18, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Editions page
We have :
 * Index:The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night, Vol 1.djvu (Payne)
 * Index:The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night - Volume 1.djvu (Burton)

How do I set up an editions page? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:26, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Editions pages are for the Mainspace and in this case should use the Translations template. See WS:STYLE for guidance. The transcluded mainspace pages should be disambiguated with the translator in parentheses. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:03, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * ✅: One Thousand and One Nights —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Image on a dedicated page, no paragraph break
Is it possible to include an image (or missing image) that appears on a separate page such that it doesn't cause a paragraph break? Example: Page:The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night, Vol 1.djvu/177, which sits between 176 and 179. When transcluded in a range (see User:Jellby/Sandbox) it causes a dangling line above the missing image ("went out to-day to buy stuffs, with thy leave, a camel laden" is out of the tag). --Jellby (talk) 09:05, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I had a similar problem with The Indian Dispossessed, and ultimately you will have to use one of a few somewhat crude workarounds to avoid an even cruder unwanted paragraph break. One possibility is to use tricks to force transclusions to place the image where and how you want them, but the downside is this creates duplicate segments of code and possibly text to maintain. Another possibility, which is what I went with for that work, is to simply force the image to be transcluded out of order somewhere more appropriate. See also original help discussion. I really wish there were a good way to turn plate images into floated thumbnails or something similar, if the presentation format/layout is suitable for it, but I doubt there's a reliable way to do that. djr13 (talk) 07:34, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

How to clear 'Error: No such file'
I did my first add text which has Error: No such file. I've read all the help pages. I've added the djvu to wikicommons as File:Annalsoffaminein00nich.djvu where the display shows Title Annals of the Famine in Ireland in 1847, 1848, and 1849. What do I need to do to clear 'no such file' error on wikisource ? en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Annals_of_the_Famine_in_Ireland Robin2014 (talk) 15:56, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Your file in Commons is named File:Annalsoffaminein00nich.djvu. Therefore, your index here has to be named Index:Annalsoffaminein00nich.djvu. Index here is aligned with the Commons file, so name must be same. Hrishikes (talk) 16:07, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I've done the index with the full file name and it shows all the page numbers. Do I need to do something to remove the entry Index:Annals_of_the_Famine_in_Ireland ?  Robin2014 (talk) 16:26, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Mark it with . Some admin will take care of it. Hrishikes (talk) 16:36, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Multiple references to the same footnote
How should I code the case there are several calls to the same footnote in the same page? For instance Page:The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night, Vol 1.djvu/403 (the calls are in lines 10 and 13).

Nevermind, found the answer in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Footnotes --Jellby (talk) 11:15, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Interrupt page highlight
When I use the  tag, hovering the mouse over the name of the last transcluded page highlights not only the page's content, but everything after that. For example see The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night, Vol 1, hovering over the little "[i]" on the left highlights the TOC and the PD box, but only the Arabic text comes from the transcluded page. Is there anything I can do to highlight only the page content? --Jellby (talk) 20:31, 8 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The problem you are having is that there is a list fictional pages without an actual source in the Index, thus everything relates page 7. The Table of contents of the book is not the list of volumes. Unless I am wrong, there is no volumes' list in the book. Also, your page numbers in the layout of the index page were overlapping. I took the liberty to identify the pages with my notations.— Ineuw talk 23:24, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You should also organize yourself and decide if it's going to be The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night, Vol 1 or The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night/Volume 1? — Ineuw talk 23:55, 8 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the suggestions. As you see, it is still a work in progress, so yes, some reorganization was (and is) needed. The book has multiple volumes, I just have not uploaded them yet. As for my question, do you mean that happens because the (approx.) second half of the book still has no text? In any case, the page is transcluded with from="7" to="7", why should it matter what happens after that? --Jellby (talk) 08:26, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I've made a test transcluding a page from some other finished work, and I get the same: the highlight extends to the bottom. So my original question remains: Can I do something to interrupt the highlighting? --Jellby (talk) 13:37, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * As you've discovered, this happens on the last page of every transclusion. Developer assistance will be needed to change it. You can mitigate the effect by reducing the amount of white space above and below the text—we don't need to reproduce the printers' tricks for vertically centering text. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:55, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

The core of this problem lies with Dynamic Layouts. Top "Header matter" and bottom "Footer matter" should never have been included in the dynamic layout scheme (e.g. these elements should not have ~3.00em left margin). I've managed to get the bottom navigation footer that is built using the top header's previous & next links out of the Dynamic Layout scheme but dual-translation license banners, single banner licenses and authority control banners still become part of Dynamic Layouts when they are not suppose to be (they are not content). Part of the problem is that our header template scheme is not very flexible (built using table rows) in addition to being part of the Dynamic Layout scheme. I've proposed changing the foundation of the core navigation header to an all Div based one in the Proposals section of Scriptorium as the first step out of the many steps needed that [hopefully] will straighten out the issues once all of them have been implemented. -- George Orwell III (talk) 19:43, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * NOTE - I temporarily "moved" the single banner licenses out of the Dynamic Layout scheme just to prove that its at the root of these problems. I'll bet your highlight stops where it's suppose to now. -- George Orwell III (talk) 19:52, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. You are of course aware that "footer matter" is not the only problem. I already mentioned the case where non-transcluded content comes after the transclusion, and I just noticed that in The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night/Volume 1 the "edition" label highlights only one line, and not the full transcluded page. --Jellby (talk) 08:41, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Why would anyone add content along with transcluded content and expect the integrity of the ProofreadPage extension to still work? The whole point is to faithfully reproduce the work and be able to verify it against a scanned page in the Page: namespace. I'm sorry but what you're attempting just was not what was envisioned when that feature was dreamed up (and its creator is long gone I'm afraid). -- George Orwell III (talk) 10:54, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


 * "Why would anyone add content along with transcluded content and expect the integrity of the ProofreadPage extension to still work?" One pressing example would be the use of Auxiliary Table of Contents to supplement a sorely limited or absent TOC in a work, and these are often shoved in between transcluded pages. I guess that stuff could all be shoved into a header (but it'd be ugly) or maybe transcluded anyway via . Then again, "This template uses the same class as header, which separates the table of contents from the proofread text derived from the Page: and Index: space." So maybe there's some neat workaround already built into it. djr13 (talk) 11:20, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


 * That's partly why AuToC remained "based" on the normal header -- so one day it too may be treated as other matter that does not belong under influence of dynamic layouts if need be. All these highlight issues are kind of far down on list of stuff that needs to be done before a solution or solutions can present itself (or be developed). Like I said earlier - it all starts with moving away from html table based headers to all div{ision] based ones (see the Proposals section). -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Correct mistake in TOC
Is it possible to mark up a miskate in TOC, when using TOC templates? See for instance Page:The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night, Vol 4.djvu/16, where the entry in page 213 is actually in page 214. Using the  and   arguments, I've made it point to 214, but I'd like to make it clear that the "213" is a mistake. In normal text I'd use SIC, but I cannot use it in the  argument, or can I? --Jellby (talk) 18:22, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I would use the alterative sic. It doesn't show as a tooltip, but does show that there is an acknowledged error to the editor who is validating. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:43, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Goliad Declaration of Independence.djvu
Haven't done this before and need assistance to get it to the indexing stage. Got the above file uploaded at Commons. It uploaded 28 pages, most of which are just blank, as was the source. All I really need is Pg. 9 (the title page) and Pgs. 11-14 (the document itself). Technically, it's not a book; it's an historical document. Can anyone at Wikisource please get this to the Indexing stage for me? Thank you. Maile66 (talk) 21:32, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ at Index:Goliad Declaration of Independence.djvu. I'll leave filling in the fields to you. Help on how to do this is at Help:Index pages. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:47, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Hope I did it correctly. Maile66 (talk) 22:43, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Double hyphen for hyphenated words across pages with hyphen
In Page:The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night, Vol 1.djvu/245 there is a page break at "eight-|and-fifty", which I coded as  , but in the page view the first part appears with double hyphen: eight--. Can I avoid that or should the code be improved to deal with these cases? --Jellby (talk) 14:00, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 *   Hesperian 14:19, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Doh! ... Thanks --Jellby (talk) 14:56, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * No problem. I recall puzzling my puzzler over the same thing. Hesperian 05:16, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

correct mistakes
I want to help.

What is the best way to correct current errors on pages here?

KenJ7
 * A good start would probably be Proofread_of_the_Month. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:16, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Can not insert characters
I am suddenly not able to insert characters (accents, ligatures, etc.) when using the Insert toolbar. I click on the desired character, and nothing happens. It fails in the Main namespace as well. Any ideas? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:00, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * CONFIRMED - I'll start looking into it. We just had the core updated to 1.25wmf14 earlier today and I suspect the answer lies with that somehow. Admittedly, I added some characters yesterday - but it was working then 'cause I tested it afterwards. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:27, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:32, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Just an FYI, the problem is not local because the same thing happens on www.mediawiki.org. I opened a ticket on it - squeaky wheel gets the grease applies here; the more folks post to both the bug ticket and the home talkpage, the more likely a solution will come to us quickly. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:18, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't have an account with the former, but FWIW I left a comment at the latter. Thanks for looking into it, Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:29, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

-- They found the fix and its in place. Character insertion is ☀ working ☀ again. -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:10, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks much, GO3! Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:51, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Table across pagebreak
This is about the appendix at the end of The History of the Bengali Language/Lecture 5. The pages are not getting transcluded properly. There are extra line spaces and all the pages not getting transcluded in Chrome. Help requested. Thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 03:48, 15 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Take a look if it's any better. — Ineuw talk 04:35, 15 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, now it's better. Many thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 09:29, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Delayed loading of the scan in edit mode.
On initial opening in edit mode, the scan appears as a tiny image in the upper left corner of the screen. Then, after clearing the cache and reloading the page (and closing and reopening), it shows up properly sized, but incomplete. The lower part of the scan fails to materialize. Does anyone know the solution to this problem? — Ineuw talk 01:02, 15 January 2015 (UTC)


 * This problem is not really an incomplete scan, but a delay in the scan loading. Every touch or move of the vertical scroll bar blanks out the page and must wait 20-30 seconds for the page to load the scrolled rows. I use Firefox 35.0 but this problem existed with an earlier version above. — Ineuw talk 02:24, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Status of Preview and Media Viewer in your User: Preferences please. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:32, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Preview is 'Show preview before edit box' and MediaViewer is disabled.— Ineuw talk 02:56, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Those are as they "should" be and assuming only one of the 3 edit toolbar "options" is enabled at the moment as well, there is not much more I can think of not running FF myself (check for these however; they have come up as causes for x,y, & z over WP's Village Pump recently). If the same happens under some version of IE, F12 Developer Tools is what I would try to use to narrow possible causes down some. Sorry. -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:16, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for taking time out, but don't concern yourself any longer. It seems to be one of the add-ons but I haven't narrowed it down which. Reset FF and using 2 different profiles, one with and the other without add-ons, and I am adding one by one to see which cause the problem. I will let you know. — Ineuw talk 04:18, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Okie-dokie & please don't forget to let us in on your findings . -- George Orwell III (talk) 07:22, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * It was a Firefox Add-on named Wired-Marker which uses a .JSON database to store marked web text (or for that matter, any selected object on a web page). Since I am running Windows 7, and Linux on my desktop, and occasionally an Old MacBook with identical browser setup, the developers of Wired-Marker suggested to install Dropbox and store the JSON database in the cloud and link it from Firefox, so all three OS's can have the same data. The slowdown was because Dropbox constantly synced the database and this in turn affected Wired-Marker and slowed down the browser. The moment I disabled the Add-on, the problem went away. The other tried solution was is to suspend Dropbox syncing. Both work equally well. — Ineuw talk 07:58, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Index:The London Gazette 19345.djvu
How to turn pp. 49. around? Tried using Djvu libre tools, but the rotation didn't happen or remain on re-viewing. Suggestions are welcome.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:14, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The page is better kept as an image, I think. Please have a look now. Hrishikes (talk) 14:07, 16 January 2015 (UTC)


 * That's all well and good but is only a a temporary soloution until someone transcribes the table. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:24, 16 January 2015 (UTC)


 * And that's now been done. Turning the page around in the source file was relatively easy to do.

Index:Our Sister Republic - Mexico.djvu
Basic issue is that a new version of this was uploaded recently, requiring a block of pages to moved upward.

I noted there was a bot request to do this, so in good faith I attempted to perform some manual moves, as it wasn't a huge number of pages. Because of the nature of the move this was done from the last page of the block to be moved towards the start (decrementing upward move).

However, Medaiwiki has a limitation that doesn't let you move a page over a pre-existing one (in this instance the redirects) left by moving pages, which means that after having moved about 5 pages over the gap created by the source file changes, I hit the limitation.

It would be appreciated if someone could sort out the resultant mess, namely by following up on the speedy deletion requests made in respect of the redirects created by the moves, and by completing the page moves in a manner that doesn't as someone elsewhere's described it 'break stuff unintentionally'. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:11, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * It appears that this is now being taken care of, Thanks.17:30, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Help would defeat the triumph of ignorance
I am trying to float this index list to the center and it's a no go (for me that is). Help would certainly bring salvation (and salivation). Please note my failed efforts in both namespaces: Page:Palestine Exploration Fund - Quarterly Statement for 1894.djvu/7 and Palestine Exploration Fund - Quarterly Statement for 1894/Articles indexed by authors.— Ineuw talk 08:31, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Reset it as a real table instead of the manufactured one that the TOC templates create, then you should be able to simply centre the table. Basically what's happening is that you are wrapping divs inside other divs and the inner ones that are at 100% width are over-riding your outer divs. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:50, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the advice, Should I restructure it? I ask because this was not my doing, and would loathe to destroy User:Abjiklam's effort. I never learned to use TOC dot leader templates, and use only tables because I don't think that the effort is worth it and rather put the time towards anchoring indexes entries. Though entry-width was reduced to 500px but that didn't help.— Ineuw talk 09:16, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Here's the lazy way to do it?


 *  No such thing as CSS float:center...  now that sounds familiar :) -- George Orwell III (talk) 09:43, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Just keep adding to my confusion.— Ineuw talk 09:48, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

After Action Report 770th FA
I have in my possession, what I believe to be an authenic after action report, dated 21 August - 30 Sept 1944. My father, Robert F Williams was a T/Sgt in said unit.

I am wondering what, if anything, this report is worth.

If anyone sees this...please email me at:

umberadoATcomcast.net

David Williams 23 January 2015 (UTC)

May I submit my own Illustrations?
I'm an illustrator. As a personal project, I illustrate texts from the public domain. I'm currently illustrating Hans Christian Andersen's The Elf of the Rose (alt. title: The Rose Elf). Here's the blog entry about my Rose Elf artwork: http://vdyej.me/eating-the-filling-first/


 * Generallly Wikisource aims to be true to original texts meaning high quality versions of the original illustrations are typically what's desired, thusly under most circumstances new illustrations would not necessarily in my view be appropriate to this project. I would also have concerns that they may also fall outside the scope of works accepted at Wikimedia Commons. However these are personal views, and I would wait for further responses before making any decision.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:43, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * , My opinion is that your kind of art (too modern) would not be allowed here on wikisource unless perhaps you write a good book and donate all of it for free. Still, I do not believe that would be acceptable. I have sons that get into various kinds of art including ray-tracing, 3-dimensional, virtual reality, and more -- the "bleeding edge" as they used to refer to it. However, there is a possibility that you could place such work on your User page but not on your talk page. Please sign your name by using 4 tildes at the end of whatever you write. Tilde= ~ . Kind regards, —Maury (talk) 01:54, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * For the most part, Wikisource has nowhere to put new artwork, and doesn't host custom-illustrated editions. However, much of Wikisource is public domain, or at the very least under a CC-BY-SA license, so if you had the inspiration to illustrate a work, you could copy and/or edit the text to a document or website to do so.
 * Alternatively, there are a few specific things we could use help from artists on. One is vectorizing graphics that get used a lot, with a careful eye for matching the original scan. Another is helping clean up any sloppy scans of photographs and illustrations, using digital editing or finding an exact copy to rescan, again with a careful eye for matching the original. Finally we do have a very marginal use of topical images mainly just on Portal pages, but for that we just draw from what works best from Commons, much of which was originally uploaded with Wikipedia in mind. Which leads me to my last point. Wikipedia is looking for illustrators, although the most in-demand work to be done is using SVG. djr13 (talk) 02:52, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, everyone, for your quick and helpful feedback. I will look into the Wikipedia call for illustrators mentioned. IllustratorVDyeJ (talk) 21:19, 23 January 2015 (UTC)VdyeJ

May I submit a book which was published in 1965?
There is a book named "Formosa Betrayed", which was published in 1965. It is now legally available free online. Everyone can read it at here. May I submit the book? If so, what template should I add on each page?--Matt Smith (talk) 16:25, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It depends how they released it. I looked at the text on romanization.com (linked from Wikipedia) but it just says it is "appears with the permission of the Taiwan Publishing Co."  That could mean just that website has permission; it might not be free to distribute.  They probably did intend to make it free but we need more information to be sure.  This is assuming the publisher has the copyright rather than Kerr's estate (the copyright won't expire until 2059).  Do you have more information? - AdamBMorgan (talk) 17:35, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * According to Chinese Wikipedia, here is the link for freely downloading PDF file. And according to the PDF's url address, I found this page, which shows copyright information.--Matt Smith (talk) 01:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Title page formatting
Help required for formatting of the page Page:Rajmohan's Wife.djvu/1. Thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 08:02, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Updated. Tweak or revert as you wish. Moondyne (talk) 08:55, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It's perfect. Many thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 09:29, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Text on top of image
I've forgotten how to. Page:Child-life in Japan and Japanese child stories (Ayrton, Matilida Chaplin., 1901).djvu/46. Moondyne (talk) 13:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You may have a try with overfloat image. Hrishikes (talk) 14:05, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ahah! Thanks, and wish me luck! Moondyne (talk) 14:23, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I cannot seem to remove whitespace below the image. Is there a trick? Moondyne (talk) 15:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ Hrishikes (talk) 15:44, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hrishikes, that remedy is absolutely fascinating! —Maury (talk) 22:56, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Is this regular or italicized Greek?
Having no basic knowledge whatsoever about Greek characters, I would be interested in any advice whether the Greek characters in A Dictionary of Christian biography and literature, like at Page:Dictionary of Christian Biography and Literature (1911).djvu/20, are "regular" Greek characters or italicized. John Carter (talk) 16:40, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * "regular". The preference here is to avoid italicising non-Roman text because the fonts aren't designed with italic options. I usually wrap Greek characters in the Greek template because the fonts in there are more easily read, particularly the diacritics. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 16:47, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * In this case, it's "regular" text, but the characters are Ancient Greek (not the modern language). The ancient form of the language includes characters and diacritics not present in the modern language. The standard template for enclosing Ancient Greek text on most MW projects is polytonic. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:27, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

The Dream of Life poem
I'm not sure how the quote at the start of the poem is formatted. Besides, I changed to a new computer and a new, wide monitor quite recently. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 16:38, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I gave it a shot; let me know if it is acceptable! Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:23, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help along with the help of Mpaa. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 20:28, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * No problem :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:35, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Correspondence between Gandhi and Tolstoj
Dear Madam/Sir,

I am looking for facsimiles of letters (hand-)written bei Tolstoj and came upon the above correspondence. Can you advise whom I have to contact in order to purchase such facsimiles?

Thanks for your cooperation and reply.

Best regards from Germany,

Heidi Hacker
 * Hope you have seen the talk page where link to certain images are provided.--Arjunaraoc (talk) 13:11, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

May I submit paid old news article?
There is an old news article "FORMOSA KILLINGS ARE PUT AT 10,000" on New York Times. It was reported in 1947, 68 years ago. New York Times now charges some money for people to download the PDF version of the article. (Although a search on Google shows many results which allow people to read the full article, like this one.)

If I purchase the PDF version of the article, may I create a page for it?--Matt Smith (talk) 10:23, 23 January 2015 (UTC)


 * We cannot publish it on Wikisource. The material has to be prior to 1923 to be in the public domain. That is why they are selling it.— Ineuw talk 10:34, 23 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the information. Does the "be prior to 1923" rule only apply on news articles? I see the "posterior to 1923" United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. And on Chinese Wikisource I also found an old Chinese news article, which was reported in 1951.--Matt Smith (talk) 11:13, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, I want to translate that article into Chinese and then submit it onto Chinese Wikisource. English Wikisource isn't the place I want to submit an article to.--Matt Smith (talk) 11:33, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Articles that are in the public domain in the US may be freely hosted here. "The material has to be prior to 1923" is not quite correct: texts published before 1923 are almost definitely in the public domain in the US; texts published after 1923 probably are not. I don't know about this particular article.

But even if it turns out that we can host the text, that does not imply that you have the right to post the text. If in purchasing an article you enter into a contract that forbids you to redistribute it, you may find yourself in breach of contract if you post it here.

Hesperian 11:38, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It looks like the article isn't in the public domain otherwise New York Times wouldn't sell it.--Matt Smith (talk) 12:51, 23 January 2015 (UTC)


 * My last two cents. It would be best to look up and read Wikipedia and Wikimedia commons articles about the subject. Both have extensive copyright information. — Ineuw talk 16:41, 23 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I really hope the article can be posted on Wikisource and your advice is inspiring. However, since New York Times is still selling the article, is it possible that there is some copyright rules allow the article to be posted on Wikisource?--Matt Smith (talk) 02:06, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


 * People selling something doesn't mean much one way or the other. But the New York Times was renewed basically from 1923 on, so most of the newspaper (sans advertising) is still under copyright.--Prosfilaes (talk) 10:56, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Why no automatic ocr text layer ?
Yesterday I uploaded from IA to Commons the book and then at wikisource I created Index:Irish_Emigration_and_The_Tenure_of_Land_in_Ireland.djvu after spending considerable time creating the entry Author:Frederick Temple Blackwood. Now the index Progress is "Index_-_Text_Layer_Requested" Does this mean I should do something to get the text layer ?

This is the second book I added to wikisource. Previously for Index:Annalsoffaminein00nich.djvu it seemed the ocr layer was automatically present. I have read soooooo many help pages but this situation does not seem to be discussed. Thanks.Robin2014 (talk) 16:25, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The automatic text layer is generated at IA and incorporated into the DjVu file there. If the file is missing its OCR text layer, then we won't have it either. We don't generate this layer ourselves. The IA procedures change over the years, and some of their DjVu files are missing one or more of the layers that are now standard.


 * This question comes up often. Could someone well-versed in the issue (and how to resolve it) start a page with guidance? --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:24, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * This djvu file has a text layer. I do not know why the extension does not show it. My opinion is that there is some problems with the text format and the extension does not recognize it. Might be wrong, 2nd opinion welcome.--Mpaa (talk) 20:32, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It was derived back in 2008 for one thing. Chances are there are structural errors affecting the coordinate mapping or the outline labeling. One sure way to check is to extract the text-layer and try merging it back in. If it extracts but fails upon the [re]merge, you should get some sort of error message indicating why it failed (then we go troubleshooting based on that next). -- George Orwell III (talk) 20:40, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Like I said....

C:\Program Files (x86)\DjVuLibre>djvused duff.djvu -e 'output-txt' > duff.txt -u

C:\Program Files (x86)\DjVuLibre>djvused duff.djvu -f duff.txt -u -s ï»¿ near ' 0 0 1720 2994' ... it seems the OCR routine at the time could not handle complex tables that take up almost an entire page so it "thought" the table(s) were pages themselves --> -->. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:03, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Syntax error in txt data: illegal zone token 'page',
 * (..\..\..\tools\djvused.cpp:380)


 * I can upload the current text layer by bot. Let me know if you want to try to re-obtain a better text layer from IA or if you want me to go ahead with the current one. You can judge the quality looking at this page.--Mpaa (talk) 22:49, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * .... or you can just hit the OCR button for every page; same result. Doesn't matter if its a lump dump or a page a time; garbage in, garbage out I say. The most straight forward solution is to take the original .PDF and re-derive it by re-uploading to IA using a different identifier (like ' irishemigrationt01duff ' for example). Once the processing is done, you can take the new .djvu and upload it over the bad one on Commons. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:10, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you all for the info. All 4 copies of this book on IA were processed in 2008.  I decided to take the pdf file and upload it to IA with a slight change in the file name.  I'll take a look at it when IA processing is finished and let you know if it seems a better result.  Thanks again Robin2014 (talk) 14:24, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Would simply requesting re-deriving the file on IA possibly solve the problem? Would it be worth considering it a standard practice before uploading the file to Commons to make sure the IA OCR was generated at least within the past couple years? djr13 (talk) 14:54, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I haven't had much luck using their manager for such things personally but its something worth looking into further - I just have too much on my plate at the moment. I think Nemo bis is the best person to tap for guidance on this (I believe he's an IA admin). -- George Orwell III (talk) 15:30, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

djr13 and Robin2014 pointed me to this discussion. It's certainly appreciated, both by Internet Archive and by users, if a new derivation is made and quality tested with ABBYY 9.0. However, I don't have sufficient privileges to rederive an item which was successfully derived, unless I uploaded it. The recommendation IA gave me is to upload a duplicate with the same metadata and originals but a different identifier: everyone can do this, and is encouraged to.

If you find a pattern where books in language X or in topic Y are considerably better with the new OCR, we can tell IA and they will rederive en masse. If reuploading yourself is too burdensome, I can help, but not on a continuous basis: give me a list of a few dozens/hundreds items of which you want to verify a new OCR, and I will reupload them for you. Ideally we'd then return, to IA, a table listing the tested IDs and what improvements there was. --Nemo 22:27, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * IA has processed the book under the name https://ia802600.us.archive.org/3/items/irishemigrationt01duff. I used URL2Commons to move this .djvu to commons with name "Irish Emigration and The Tenure of Land in Ireland 2.djvu"  I could not put this in commons with the original name so I added '2' at the end of the title. Then I created the Index with '2' at the end of the name and now the OCR layer was done automatically.  I guess this was the result of the re-derivation of the djvu.  Now what does wikisource prefer - should the name without the 2 be deleted ? OR should be name with '2' be used to replace, or update the name without '2' ? Robin2014 (talk) 15:51, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I reupload it at Commons as a new version of the original one, deleted the Index:*_2.djvu here and nominated the File:*_2.djvu at Commons.--Mpaa (talk) 20:03, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Whitespace below overfloat image
Above leaves a block of whitespace below each image and the examples on the /doc page all seem to show this. Viewing page source shows the anomaly is this

Where does that come from and can it be removed? Moondyne (talk) 02:12, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Short answer: from inside the template itself. Happy now? 124.183.99.79 04:10, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Always happy. Cheers. Moondyne (talk) 07:08, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Good to hear. My earlier note was unreasonably terse. What I should have said is that the comments embedded inside the template were slightly mis-aligned; resulting in issuing one blank line for every possible "item" field (there are nine of these: item1..item9.) This becomes significant when you realise 8 empty lines represents 4 paragraph boundaries... thus your anomaly in a nutshell. Hope this (longer) explanation is clear enough? 124.183.99.79 aka 101.175.138.189 07:24, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes it is. I am much obliged. Moondyne (talk) 23:26, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Missing features in non-English Wikisource?
I'm considering putting some Latin texts on Wikisource. However, the Latin Wikisource seems to have much fewer features than the English Wikisource. For example, margin notes, verse numbers, TOC options--all these are missing, and they are important for these texts. I assume Latin texts cannot be hosted on the English Wikisource. Is there any solution?— Fps.vogel (talk) 19:00, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * One I can think of is to copying the templates to the Latin site.— Ineuw talk 00:49, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Got it, thanks!— Fps.vogel (talk) 15:19, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Corruption in overfloat image?
Suddenly I noticed today some extra curly braces in a page proofread by me with the help of overfloat image and already validated. Has someone tinkered with the template? Hrishikes (talk) 14:25, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You are right. The attempt to address Whitespace below &#x7b;&#x7b;overfloat image&#x7d;&#x7d; above introduced this error. has also been working on this template; and as my solution is quite different to his (he had only addressed the issue insofar as item1 was affected) I shall let him decide which approach to crystallise upon. In short, please check back from time-to-time to ensure this thing is (still) working.


 * Perhaps excessively ramming the point home: two-edit change differences. This is important (possibly only to ABM above) but probably not interesting. 110.147.190.65 21:23, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I had to stop to do something else. I see what the problem is now, but I went ahead with just replacing the table segments with straight HTML instead of wikicode.  HTML has explicit close tags that don't require interpretation.  Hopefully this will also prevent future errors as well as the current bug.  Besides, all the wikicode does is get translated into HTML anyway.  I've taken the time to clear up the code as I found it difficult to interpret as it was; a little more spacing and structuring (with commented out whitespace) should help there. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 00:00, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Can legal papers be published?
Can legal papers which were submitted to Supreme Court of the United States in 2009 be published? The papers are someone's affidavit for testifying the case.--Matt Smith (talk) 13:39, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * We usually don't publish something for the first time here. Can you tell us more about what the documents are? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:11, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The documents (affidavit) were wrote by "former President of the ROC government in exile". They were used in a lawsuit against the United States government. Please see this reporte.--Matt Smith (talk) 07:42, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Probably. I would imagine that anything submitted to a court would by definition be public record and if it were written by an ROC president, the author would be notable. Let me know how I can help. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:03, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That sounds good. What's the appropriate way for me to hand the documents to Wikisource.org?--Matt Smith (talk) 05:56, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Generally, if it was originally published in print, then there will be a digital scan of it that is uploaded to our sister site Commons. This is not strictly necessary but it is useful sometimes. If you have digital copies, then they can be virtually copied and pasted here. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:01, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I see. I found the pdf version on the personal website of the petitioner and the image version on a Chinese website. Are those versions okay for uploading to Commons?--Matt Smith (talk) 06:36, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Definitely. Can you tell if the two are identical? PDFs are nice because we can use software here to scan the document and reproduce the text. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:38, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I believe they are identical because the font and the signature on the the pdf version look identical to the image version. Obviously the image version was created by scanning the pdf version. Or rather, the pdf version was created by scanning the image version. Anyway, they look identical. --Matt Smith (talk) 06:54, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * From my reading of the United States Code/Title 17/Chapter 1 I believe that the text you are proposing to add is copyright and not in the public domain. While court decisions are not copyright, there is no explicit exception made for court proceedings or for the documents submitted to courts. For us to host this text, there will need to be an OTRS ticket showing that the author gives permission to Wikimedia to host. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:25, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I understand. Then I might need to talk to the petitioner to ask if he is willing to give permissions to Wikimedia. Since I myself and probably the petitioner have no clue on how OTRS and related copyright rules work, what should I inform the petitioner? And what effects will happen to his documents after the text is hosted on Wikimedia? He may need to know these things before making the decision.--Matt Smith (talk) 07:51, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The best thing I can do is to point you to Commons:OTRS. The process is explained there. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:09, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I will read it.--Matt Smith (talk) 08:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Small help with my first text
Original_Stories_from_Real_Life This needs a few chapter transclusions to be fixed and the table of contents validated. User:John Carter and I have put in most of the work if someone else wants to help polish it off. Thanks! —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:12, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It looks as though the Google notice also needs to be stripped out. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:38, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Extraneous initial pages taken care of. Hrishikes (talk) 16:20, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * EncycloPetey, how would *you* strip out the Google watermarks on any file, .pdf or .djvu? —Maury (talk) 16:18, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

OCR button has disappeared
The OCR button is gone from the toolbar. This is a pretty serious problem for working with source files that contain no text layer. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:46, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Present in chrome in Windows 7 in my laptop. Absent in IE and Firefox. Hrishikes (talk) 18:20, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * OCR button not present in Safari on iMac. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 22:18, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Please check again -- any change now? -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:39, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Now it has disappeared from Chrome (Windows 7) as well. Absent in IE and Firefox as before. Present in Chrome (android). Appears in Chrome (Windows 7) after logging out. Appears in Firefox after logging in. Hrishikes (talk) 03:56, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Still no OCR button in Firefox for MacOS. It showed up briefly in Safari (MacOS), but when I logged out and then back in, it disappeared again in Safari. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:24, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm convinced this latest drop-out of the OCR button has to do with last Tuesday's core 1.25wmf15 update and it's "effect on the way things [gadgets] are loaded when they are labeled as site-wide defaults" (I don't know how else to phrase it never mind identify what it was specifically). Soon afterward, I'm pretty sure the combination of CharInsert being a site-wide default, the OCR button being a site-wide default and the ProofreadPage toolbar extension in general are now all "competing to load at the same point in time & into the same memory". As a work-around that produces the most consistent results for all three components [here on my lonely IE11 Win Edge setup], the OCR button gadget will no longer be a site-wide default for the time being (maybe forever?) -i.e. >>>> YOU MUST ENABLE THE OCR BUTTON GADGET MANUALLY IN YOUR USER PREFERENCES NOW <<<< Once manually enabled AND given some time for the change to actually work its way through the existing cache or caching for each user, the OCR button should then reliably generate for you in each and every Page: edit session you initiate and leave the PR extension and the CharInsert toolbar to their own "functioning states" at the same time. Please post back with your observations and/or results. -- George Orwell III (talk) 05:50, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Back in Chrome after manual preference. Thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 06:06, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * That OCR button must be on the newest editor version. I have *never* had to use the OCR button on this older editor. Always try to use .djvu files. —Maury (talk) 07:56, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The problem is that some DjVu files do not have a text layer, and then you either have to redo the file at IA, or else use OCR. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:33, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Still not seeing the OCR button in Firefox or Safari (MacOS), even after logging out/in and patient waiting. I set my Preferences for the Gadget shortly after GO3 posted. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:17, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Interesting. I have been blessed, I suppose, because the .djvu files I upload all have text layers and therefore I never had to use our OCR button. Still, my OCR is still exists to use. I see no problem in anyone having to redo a file at IA. I learned from Ineuw, or however he spells his alias here, how and where to get and/or derive .djvu files and to avoid .PDF files when possible. Heaps of blesssings upon him for it! I recall he placed detailed instructions on wikisource! Too, I think George Orwell III has explained it. I use only Firefox 35.0.1 until it is upgraded and never do I have to use the OCR button. —Maury (talk) 02:37, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I should create a table for all the browsers in various OS's. I tested the OCR in the following browsers using Ineuw for the advanced toolbar and my public account configured for the legacy toolbar.


 * In both Windows and Apple - Logging out and then in works if not on the first try then the second.


 * Advanced toolbar:


 * In Windows and Apple - It always works with the advanced toolbar in all browsers. This includes, Firefox, IE 11, Chrome, Opera and Safari.


 * Legacy toolbar:


 * In Windows - It works in all browsers except in Opera, where logging out and in brought it up on the second try.


 * In Apple - Always works in Firefox but not in Safari. Logging out and in brought it up on the second try.

I also tested if it works for each of the above. On one occasion in Safari, it showed up but didn't work on the first try. If anyone has a problem with Linux, I can test it in Xubuntu 14.04 with Firefox, Opera, and perhaps Chrome (don't remember if I installed it). I really hope it helps. — Ineuw talk 04:52, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I tested both Firefox and Chromium in Linux and the results were that with the advanced toolbar OCR always shows up and works. With the legacy toolbar the icon was missing on the first edit in both browsers. Purging the page (I use the UTC clock purge), it shows up. Perhaps the editors with a problem should check their preferences that only one toolbar is selected.— Ineuw talk 17:39, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Indeed, that was the problem in my case; I had more than one version of the editing toolbar selected (no idea why or how). Correcting this issue to select just one of them corrected the problem. Thanks to GO3 for helping me figure that out. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:54, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Is this a table?
I have no idea exactly how to format the second through fifth lines of Page:A dictionary of the Book of Mormon.pdf/106 because I can't be sure whether it is more or less intended to be in tabular form or not. Any ideas? John Carter (talk) 16:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * No, it's definitely not a table, and I believe that my edit to that page using ditto is probably all that is needed for this, even though it doesn't exactly line up. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:55, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Good enough. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 17:06, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Only a table would get the quotations aligned.— Ineuw talk 17:14, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Actually,, the template ditto will do that as well. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:46, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Added Ditto to Category:Special effects templates, if anyone feels this decission is counter-intuitive to the discovery of valuable templates please revert my edit. Actually on further investigation it seems Ditto doesn't line up as perfect as it could be.--Rochefoucauld (talk) 01:16, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * There are many templates I am ignorant of and ditto is one of them . . . all I care about is that when the right tool is found I use it. It's mind boggling the number of ways one can format text in WS and if I would be studying and memorizing templates, that's what I would still be doing and I wouldn't have gotten any proofreading done.— Ineuw talk 00:11, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

OCR button has disappeared
The OCR button is gone from the toolbar. This is a pretty serious problem for working with source files that contain no text layer. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:46, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Present in chrome in Windows 7 in my laptop. Absent in IE and Firefox. Hrishikes (talk) 18:20, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * OCR button not present in Safari on iMac. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 22:18, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Please check again -- any change now? -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:39, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Now it has disappeared from Chrome (Windows 7) as well. Absent in IE and Firefox as before. Present in Chrome (android). Appears in Chrome (Windows 7) after logging out. Appears in Firefox after logging in. Hrishikes (talk) 03:56, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Still no OCR button in Firefox for MacOS. It showed up briefly in Safari (MacOS), but when I logged out and then back in, it disappeared again in Safari. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:24, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm convinced this latest drop-out of the OCR button has to do with last Tuesday's core 1.25wmf15 update and it's "effect on the way things [gadgets] are loaded when they are labeled as site-wide defaults" (I don't know how else to phrase it never mind identify what it was specifically). Soon afterward, I'm pretty sure the combination of CharInsert being a site-wide default, the OCR button being a site-wide default and the ProofreadPage toolbar extension in general are now all "competing to load at the same point in time & into the same memory". As a work-around that produces the most consistent results for all three components [here on my lonely IE11 Win Edge setup], the OCR button gadget will no longer be a site-wide default for the time being (maybe forever?) -i.e. >>>> YOU MUST ENABLE THE OCR BUTTON GADGET MANUALLY IN YOUR USER PREFERENCES NOW <<<< Once manually enabled AND given some time for the change to actually work its way through the existing cache or caching for each user, the OCR button should then reliably generate for you in each and every Page: edit session you initiate and leave the PR extension and the CharInsert toolbar to their own "functioning states" at the same time. Please post back with your observations and/or results. -- George Orwell III (talk) 05:50, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Back in Chrome after manual preference. Thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 06:06, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * That OCR button must be on the newest editor version. I have *never* had to use the OCR button on this older editor. Always try to use .djvu files. —Maury (talk) 07:56, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The problem is that some DjVu files do not have a text layer, and then you either have to redo the file at IA, or else use OCR. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:33, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Still not seeing the OCR button in Firefox or Safari (MacOS), even after logging out/in and patient waiting. I set my Preferences for the Gadget shortly after GO3 posted. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:17, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Interesting. I have been blessed, I suppose, because the .djvu files I upload all have text layers and therefore I never had to use our OCR button. Still, my OCR is still exists to use. I see no problem in anyone having to redo a file at IA. I learned from Ineuw, or however he spells his alias here, how and where to get and/or derive .djvu files and to avoid .PDF files when possible. Heaps of blesssings upon him for it! I recall he placed detailed instructions on wikisource! Too, I think George Orwell III has explained it. I use only Firefox 35.0.1 until it is upgraded and never do I have to use the OCR button. —Maury (talk) 02:37, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I should create a table for all the browsers in various OS's. I tested the OCR in the following browsers using Ineuw for the advanced toolbar and my public account configured for the legacy toolbar.


 * In both Windows and Apple - Logging out and then in works if not on the first try then the second.


 * Advanced toolbar:


 * In Windows and Apple - It always works with the advanced toolbar in all browsers. This includes, Firefox, IE 11, Chrome, Opera and Safari.


 * Legacy toolbar:


 * In Windows - It works in all browsers except in Opera, where logging out and in brought it up on the second try.


 * In Apple - Always works in Firefox but not in Safari. Logging out and in brought it up on the second try.

I also tested if it works for each of the above. On one occasion in Safari, it showed up but didn't work on the first try. If anyone has a problem with Linux, I can test it in Xubuntu 14.04 with Firefox, Opera, and perhaps Chrome (don't remember if I installed it). I really hope it helps. — Ineuw talk 04:52, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I tested both Firefox and Chromium in Linux and the results were that with the advanced toolbar OCR always shows up and works. With the legacy toolbar the icon was missing on the first edit in both browsers. Purging the page (I use the UTC clock purge), it shows up. Perhaps the editors with a problem should check their preferences that only one toolbar is selected.— Ineuw talk 17:39, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Indeed, that was the problem in my case; I had more than one version of the editing toolbar selected (no idea why or how). Correcting this issue to select just one of them corrected the problem. Thanks to GO3 for helping me figure that out. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:54, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Charinsert bar disappeared
The title says it all. Can anyone shed some light on this? — Ineuw talk 21:24, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Getting back to this issue, is there anyone who knows how to fix this? I am like a fish out of water, a boat without oars, and just drifting here. — Ineuw talk 11:37, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Just helping myself - turned the gadget feature off and then on, and now it's back. Thanks ineuw, you're great.— Ineuw talk


 * Charinsert disappeared again - this time disabling & enabling didn't help. Can someone help to resolve this please? — Ineuw talk 22:28, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Gone for me too (Chrome)... But it appears in IE.  Anxious to get it back!  Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:35, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Still there for me in Firefox and Safari, but strangely it's at the top of the edit window in Safari while at the bottom of the edit window in Firefox. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:39, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * When it was appearing in Chrome, it would normally appear at the top, but would occassionally appear at the bottom. But at least it was there!  Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:52, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It's there for me in chrome (android), I have just now done some edit with it. Hrishikes (talk) 05:22, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I guess the lights went out and GO3 is not around to blame. It's not appearing in any of my browser toys in any of the OS's.— Ineuw talk 05:24, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I've lost it as well (it seemed to appear sporadically for a short time, then disappear entirely). The code behind it is MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert-core.js.  That was last edited on 23 Jan by, which doesn't match up with problems occurring over a week later (besides which he appears to be a developer -- I'm afraid I don't keep up with that side of things -- and should know what he's doing). I can't see any other obvious edit on any related page that might be causing this. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 14:19, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Filed a bug report on Phabricator.— Ineuw talk 06:16, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * All appears normal for me ... monobook, old toolbar above, and the edittools below. — billinghurst  sDrewth  06:24, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Ah, ha! It's not gone for me either, but I'm still using monobook as well. Has it gone for anyone who is using monobook? If not, then that needs to be part of the bug report. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:37, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Still gone in Chrome; hopefully the bug ticket will get someone to look into why the problem exists in some browsers and not in others. May need to be specific in the report.  Londonjackbooks (talk) 06:29, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

I was using the modern skin, but switched to another to test it and there was no change. At my end it doesn't seem to be skin or browser related because it doesn't work in any of the browsers. Perhaps it may be a combination of selected gadgets? I also tried to place the code in the skin related .js folder, but that didn't help. Currently it's installed in the "Shared CSS/JavaScript for all skins". — Ineuw talk 06:53, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * What about now that I removed the Jan 23 Krinkle toolbar bit addition and dependency changes? -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:19, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I was posting the this when GO3's post collided with mine: "This problem also popped up in other wikis. I disabled all gadgets as it was suggested, but nothing happened since my last post until now. The Charinsert has returned. Whether this is permanent or not, I don't know, but I am very suspicious that the return of the Charinsert coincides with the reapperance of User:George Orwell III." :-).— Ineuw talk 21:26, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The problem was 2 weeks off for Developer Reach-Around Camp on top of the normal 1 week wait for a new 1.25wmf release to come down to us making for a total of 3 weeks between developer "action" and developer "result". The change this past tues resulted in 3 weeks of good intentions going bad it seems (I can't remember what took place 3 days ago so its not hard to believe forgetting something 3 weeks old taking place). -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:33, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I appreciate your explanation, but it doesn't mean that I accept it. For all I know you were off on a quest for better goulash.— Ineuw talk 21:43, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I forgot to advise the community that the toolbar is back again (for me). — Ineuw talk 21:52, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Back, and functioning. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:53, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

EB1911 Volume 25 Scan File Corruption
I am having trouble with pages transcluded from scans of Volume 25 of EB1911:. Is there corruption in File:EB1911 - Volume 25.djvu? Thanks for the help! - DutchTreat (talk) 11:42, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * File looks corrupted ... EB1911_-_Volume_25.djvu ‎(0 × 0 pixels, file size: 94.12 MB, MIME type: image/vnd.djvu). Probably needs someone to do a fresh load of a djvu file. — billinghurst  sDrewth  06:28, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I touched on this phenomenon up in this post. Vol. 26, Vol. 27, and EB1922 Vol. 31 all fall into the same group with the same issue as the other .djvu source file previously listed w/ Vol. 25 above btw. -- George Orwell III (talk) 20:23, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ... and don't ask me why the text layer isn't showing for the replacement vol. 25 -- its there when I Dl it to my hd. It probably needs a full [cache &] file refresh on Commons but THIS probably(?) prevented that from happening "normally". -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:36, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Source file failures getting worse and worse every week
Just the latest Orphaned file list thanks to the source file registering as "flawed" all of the sudden. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:29, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ugh. Browsing the Statutes at Large category on Commons makes me think this issue is confined to a (relatively) small number of volumes (for now…?). I’ll see whether I can re-download the original source PDFs from FDSys and re-convert the affected files. Tarmstro99 22:41, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Don't go nuts just yet - its not just SaL volumes but most any series where a volume runs into the thousands page-wise. Originally I thought it was because the source file was too close to 100Mb in size but that seems not be the rule of thumb anymore. This happened once before and the "memory was increased" or something to correct for it if I remember right. I think should be consulted before we get too far into "replacing" volumes at any rate. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:52, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I just replaced Volume 118 of the Statutes at Large with a new version that was converted from PDF using pdf2djvu instead of djvudigital, which was used to create the (broken) version of the file. The result was a slightly larger file, but it still does not work. This suggests to me that the problem may not lie with the conversion program but somewhere else instead. I’ll refrain from any further tampering until a better understanding of the actual technical problem comes to light. Tarmstro99 02:13, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I tried to stop you ) Anyway, the true test would be a.) set yourself the bot bit in your user rights; then b.) upload the file locally to en.wikisource rather than continued over-writes on Commons using a really different name to see if the same thing happens to insure the current state of the DjVu source file is not an effect of old garbage file caching or something isolated to Commons.  Depending on how that turns out; we still might need to manually test the text layer to see if that is behind it somehow instead. -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:13, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

I think I found the "crux" of the issue causing this. See the tracked task now linked to the right and somebody tell me if we're in the ballpark re: metadata size. -- George Orwell III (talk) 06:31, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Close, but not quite. The URL given in that report returns an error, citing a limit of 12,582,912 bytes on results, while a similar URL for File:United States Statutes at Large Volume 118.djvu returns a 12,127,802 byte [//commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=imageinfo&iiprop=metadata&titles=File:United%20States%20Statutes%20at%20Large%20Volume%20118.djvu&format=json&continue= JSON response].Warning: ~12MB at that link.  The returned XML has an incorrect DOCTYPE, but so does the [//commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=imageinfo&iiprop=metadata&titles=File:Kopal-Kundala.djvu&continue= returned XML] for File:Kopal-Kundala.djvu, which has no problems and is our current Proofread of the Month.  Pathore (talk) 01:50, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * But that's the 5th uploaded version of vol. 118 & not the necessarily the version that caused the log jam now replicated by [what I believe is] shite caching on commons. I forget which one does go over the limit (volume 123 or volume 120). Why can't a 3rd party just upload a file in question locally to see if the same thing happens? I'll delete it right after either way. -- George Orwell III (talk) 20:54, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Copying locally c:File:EB1911 - Volume 25.djvu — ( Index: here ), should be here soon--Mpaa (talk) 21:16, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Not a big difference ... or were you expecting another file (I took the latest in Commons)?--Mpaa (talk) 21:57, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Text layer looks OK:
 * user@pc:~/Downloads$ cp EB1911_-_Volume_25.djvu duff.djvu
 * user@pc:~/Downloads$ djvused duff.djvu -e 'output-txt' > duff.txt -u
 * user@pc:~/Downloads$ djvused duff.djvu -f duff.txt -u -s--Mpaa (talk) 23:34, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I can't understand why the replacement EB1911_Vol._25 DjVu source file doesn't produce a text-layer dump in the Page: name space either. Q: you're the "PY guy", what did this have to do with the replacement file or replacement process exactly? -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:17, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Wild guessing. My understanding is that some of Phetools are running on tools.wmflabs.org and check files as they come. E.g. hocr.py is run a few hours later than a new revision has been uploaded. I guess is that depending on check results, some further scripts might be run on a page basis. What they do I did not dig too much into. The code should be here: https://github.com/phil-el/phetools. Best is to ask directly .--Mpaa (talk) 11:27, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Could it be that if djvu is not considered to have a good quality by phetools, a new OCR needs to be done on demand via OCR gadget? I say this as MediaWiki:Gadget-ocr.js gadets points to "var request_url = '//tools.wmflabs.org/phetools/hocr_cgi.py?cmd=hocr&book=' ....", which is very similar to the above.--Mpaa (talk) 20:32, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, a single page extracted from the djvu file works, so it has probably something to do with the total number of pages? See Index:EB1111 25 p45.djvu.--Mpaa (talk) 20:45, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Volumes 120 and 123 are both broken and both show only a single version of the file on Commons. The analogous API query succeeds on volume 120, returning [//commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=imageinfo&iiprop=metadata&titles=File:United%20States%20Statutes%20at%20Large%20Volume%20120.djvu&format=json&continue= 12,892,030 bytes], but fails with an error[//commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=imageinfo&iiprop=metadata&titles=File:United%20States%20Statutes%20at%20Large%20Volume%20123.djvu&continue= HTML][//commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=imageinfo&iiprop=metadata&titles=File:United%20States%20Statutes%20at%20Large%20Volume%20123.djvu&format=json&continue= JSON] on volume 123, citing the same response size limit of 12,582,912 bytes.  Obviously the limit doesn't work quite right.  I'm waiting for the download from Commons to finish, then I'll do the tests on the text layer, although I don't see how a bad text layer could prevent the images from being recognized.  Pathore (talk) 23:13, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Its not going to be text-layer related. Even locally --> File:Vol118.djvu. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:17, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You had mentioned the possibility earlier, so I decided to try it. All I wasted is a few minutes of CPU time and I can now say that extracting, removing, and re-merging the text layer on volume 120 not only succeeds, but produces an output .djvu with the same SHA1 hash as the file I started with.  Pathore (talk) 23:32, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Confirmed (for the sake of completeness). While not "perfect", the text-layer extracts and [re]inserts without catastrophic failure (as was the case in this unrelated issue) for me too. Same results with my last two uploads of Volume 118 fwiw. Since volume 118 has 3496 pages comprising it; imho, I think we should stick to just poking volume 118 and volume 118 alone from now on. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:17, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I used volume 120 because there was only one revision of that file on Commons, rather than a bunch of them as for volume 118. (I couldn't figure out how to write an API request for metadata on an old revision.)  I agree that we should focus on getting volume 118 to work, though.
 * For the wider problem, however, c:File:EB1911 - Volume 25.djvu mentioned above is particularly interesting: we have both a good and a broken revision before the problem was solved by uploading a newer IA scan.  The broken revision was uploaded by Phe, who might be able to shed some light on the processing steps that produced it.  I've compared djvudump output for the good and broken files and found some notable differences:  (1) the second file has a text layer (of course), (2) while the image sizes match, the second file is marked as 300 dpi, while the first was 200 dpi, (3) the JB2 bilevel data blocks are different sizes, implying that the images were recompressed, and (4) the internal file names are longer in the broken version.  Item (4) is less likely, unless Commons doesn't like DjVu files with pages named "page_####.djvu" (digits represented as "#") for some insane reason, because the new IA scan has even longer internal file names.  The DjVuLibre tools here have no problem with any of the files, so I suspect something is wrong with the handling of .dvju files in MediaWiki.  Pathore (talk) 03:52, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I really don't get what is going on here; the same file as File:Vol118.djvu but with the text-layer completely removed (File:2vol118.djvu) seems to process and render just fine. Could the total number of pages with "hidden-text" exceed some threshold for the first test file rather than the total size of the "hidden-text" overall be somehow at fault here? -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:42, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * A sampling of files on Commons in c:Category:Statutes at Large turned up some good files with page names that didn't match the pattern "p*.djvu" (and none that did), so I tried rebuilding the bundle with different page names. Thankfully, the problem isn't quite that insane--it's still broken.
 * Too many pages with text is plausible: the three revisions of c:File:EB1911 - Volume 25.djvu have, in chronological order, 0, 1,090, and 1,085 pages with hidden text layers.  The one with 1,090 text chunks is broken.  The one with 1,085 text chunks works.  There are maps on DjVu pages 25, 483, 519, 526, and 551 in that volume.  The new IA scan doesn't have OCR data for those pages.
 * To extract a list of pages without OCR data from a bundled DjVu file:  .  A list of internal page names is printed, each in curly brackets on its own line.
 * -- Pathore (talk) 05:30, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Further digging: most of the files in c:Category:Statutes at Large with more than 1085 pages do not have text in their metadata at all. The notable exceptions that I've found are 47 Part 2, 48 Part 1, 49 Part 2, 124, and 125.  I got this by manually cross-referencing the results of [//commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&gcmtitle=Category:Statutes_at_Large&generator=categorymembers&gcmtype=file&gcmlimit=40&continue=&prop=imageinfo&iiprop=size&gcmcontinue= this API query] with API queries for metadata on the individual files that had more than 1,085 pages.  I ignored the broken files when gathering this list.  It looks like the issue is some combination of total text and number of pages.  The working revision of c:File:EB1911 - Volume 25.djvu actually produces more output from djvutxt than the broken one.  I'll look closer at those other volumes later; maybe they don't actually have as many text chunks as the API responses imply.  Pathore (talk) 07:01, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Incomplete author page
Can anyone please add ascertain the death-year for this author page and both birth- and death-years for this author page and add them? Thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 03:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * ???I'm confused. What is preventing you from doing it exactly? -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:25, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm confused at your confusion. I'm asking for help; which means I'm unable to do it myself; which again means I'm unable to get the relevant data. Hrishikes (talk) 04:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, I think I understand now. You don't actually know these dates and need help finding them out; not so much 'need help adding some dates to the author: namespace' (I edited your opening post to better reflect what I think you're asking help with). -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Chowdhury died 1939, and I have transcribed the Times obituary to the talk page. No indicative year of birth, though I would have said prior to 1880s at a minimum. For Sen, I have looked previously without results. I don't have good sources for India, the National Archives aren't useful, and I find the National Library better to use, though not necessarily helpful. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:59, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot; I don't know why this did not come up in my search. Hrishikes (talk) 14:47, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

The Pilgrims' Halt
I'm not sure how the poem The Pilgrims' Halt is formatted. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 12:11, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Had a try. Please check. Hrishikes (talk) 13:11, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Tyvm, Hrishikes. :) --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 13:35, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Page:Adapting_and_Writing_Language_Lessons.pdf/401
In the dictation, some of the symbols have a vertical line, what is this symbol and how can it be entered? (I'd appreciate some assistance on this work, as I also found some IPA like symbols I can't match up easily.)

It would be nice to get this one finished. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:50, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's a Glottal stop. Transcribe it with an apostrophe (not curly). Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:23, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Follow on - Page:Adapting and Writing Language Lessons.pdf/193 . This has what looks like a reversed c and an n with a tale, the latter I'm fairly sure about, the reversed c I'm not. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:41, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * These are IPA symbols, and can be found at International Phonetic Alphabet. Hrishikes (talk) 10:19, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Index progress bar
Is there a way (e.g. a template) to show the progress bar of one particular index as it’s being displayed on the Special:IndexPages page? Nonexyst (talk) 14:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See PageStatus or Progress. Not with automatic update as far as I know.--Mpaa (talk) 17:02, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Well, then, is there an expression to get the number of pages with a specific prefix in a specific category and an expression to get the number of pages in a specific PDF/djvu file? Nonexyst (talk) 18:05, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Error: Numeric value expected
I do not understand why I get this error on: Index:EB1911_-_Volume_26.djvu and Index:EB1911_-_Volume_27.djvu. Any clue?--Mpaa (talk) 20:22, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * You get that on the Index: page of just about any source file that is 'flawed' or 'failing'. Its a symptom of whatever is behind this latest 'failure to render' issue & not part of the cause itself. This much I've been able to piece together:
 * DjVu files, specifically, store informative data components like it's own metadata, the text-layer & related mapping, annotations like URLs (rare) and the document's outline (or structure if you prefer) in one of two ways or some combination of two ways -- either as shared additional .iff files found within the bundle of indirect .djvu files that makes up the typical DjVu source-file for us or is applied/attached to every single indirect .djvu file found within a single DjVu source file. (to recap; each scanned page converted to a single djvu is an indirect .djvu file. When every scanned page have each been converted to indirect djvus and then complied into one, that is then defined as a bundled .djvu file).
 * When a .DjVu is uploaded and hosted as a source-file, all that additional, internal "informative data" is processed as / forced to the metadata part of the File: namespace where one typically finds info like camera-type, various date, dpi, colors, and similar for true image files like .PNGs, .JPGs and .TIFFs for example. In other words, since the .DjVu file specification can be considered slap-dash at best, instead of being thought first and foremost as a document file (mainly text; like a .DOC or .PDF) that is comprised of images of scanned "pages" -- some of which may actually be scans of illustrations that should be considered images -- its (erroneously) thought of MIME-wise as an image file. This is why developers "dump" what should be document metadata as image metadata. That box at the bottom of a File: page where image metadata goes has some "limit" apparently.
 * Its this questionable manner in the "hosting" of .djvu files with rather large or complex internal "informative data (or djvu metadata)" that seems to be catching up with us.
 * I haven't found the trigger point -- when exceeded -- that causes this "failure" we are all seeing. My last uploaded effort still hasn't crossed that threshold and its nowhere near the 4,000 [indirect djvu] pages total never mind only 2,000 of which have a text-layer (the additional informative data from before). -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:05, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. I checked Index:EB1911_-_Volume_25.djvu and I was able to get the whole metadata via API and at first glance looks OK as XML file. I wonder if it more size than number of pages that matters (metadata is 11 Mb and it has "only" 1064 pages). If you need something, let me know, for me it is quite easy to retrieve info via API.--Mpaa (talk) 22:00, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Whatever it is, the newer scans from the Internet Archive don't seem to trigger it. Volume 25 has been replaced with one of those, but volume 26 has not.  You could try simply uploading the rest of the 2012 set of scans from IA to Commons if you just want the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica to work.  Pathore (talk) 22:26, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * True; while the single trial of the replacement of EB1911 Volume 25 does seem to process "all the way" (e.g. has a file size, the height and width dimensions plus the page count), it still does not "automatically dump" what appears to be a perfectly good text-layer upon initial page creation in the Page: namespace. If this is true for other newer EB1911 volumes - I cannot say. Somebody with a faster connection should try replacing them just to see if Vol. 25 is an isolated case or not; we can always revert/delete/replace as needed afterwards.-- George Orwell III (talk) 22:53, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * EDIT: an exact copy of the current .php file dealing with DjVu "processing" is --> DjVuImage. Line 40 jumps out at me for starters. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:33, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * That is a ~300MB memory limit. The djvutxt tool doesn't use anywhere near that much; 40M is adequate for processing all three versions of EB1911 volume 25 here.
 * Any chance we could get debugging logs from processing some of these files? There's a bunch of wfDebug calls in that code.  Pathore (talk) 01:00, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Beats me -- maybe Mpaa knows how?
 * No, sorry, no clue on that.--Mpaa (talk) 18:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * And Mpaa; can you extract that XML you mentioned before and put it up raw in sandbox or something for me please? TIA. -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:28, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Let's try this link to Phab (let me know when you are done, so I can throw it away ...)--Mpaa (talk) 18:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks & sorry for the delay - I've got the XML now so you can do away with the Phab copy. Right off the bat - I notice the internal indirect .djvu file name is not associated anywhere with its corresponding "object". And don't hold me to it but I do recall something about this "disassociation" occurring when some-caps/all-caps are used in the naming of the individual internal indirect .djvu files. I'll see if I can find it. Moving on... is there anyway to script the renaming of these indirect .djvu files once extracted (I don't like position /0001 being ____0000.djvu in the EB1911 Vol. 25 file primarily). More important - is there an easy way to take those renamed indirect djvu files and make them back into a single bundled djvu without having to enter the name for each [renamed] djvu in the djvm command line? -- George Orwell III (talk) 06:13, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) about renaming, I think we can find a way. But I do not recognize your names, this is what I see:
 * djvm -l EB1911_-_Volume_25.djvu 61426   PAGE #1080   VOL25_SHWEBO-SUBLIMINAL_SELF_1079.djvu --> you woul like this to be SELF_1080.djvu?
 * 2) after renaming, looping djvm -i[nsert] doc.djvu page.djvu [pagenum] should do the work. or?--Mpaa (talk) 19:54, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Fwiw.... the above will extract the bundled djvu into 1,090 indirect djvu files plus 1 additional "index file" (v25indx.djvu - should not be carried over in renaming btw). Once extracted, we should try a renaming scheme taking VOL25_SHWEBO-SUBLIMINAL_SELF_1079.djvu to something all lowercase & shorter like eb1911_vol25_1079.djvu for example. How to take all the renamed files and combine them again (I guess?) would be a djvm command with 1090 variables or 1090 djvm commands starting with the last renamed, indirect djvu and ending with the first. I'm still wary of any file using 0000 instead of 0001 for the first position however. -- George Orwell III (talk) 20:56, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've tried this already with a different file, and did not get a very useful result. The internal DjVu page names don't seem to be used for anything in MediaWiki, but I can do these sorts of rebuilds very easily.  Uploading the file afterwards is annoyingly slow (limited bandwidth) but doable.  I don't think that the page numbers are in any way tied to the internal file names.  Also, note that the version of EB1911 vol. 25 where the internal files are numbered from 0000 is one of the files that works.  Pathore (talk) 21:30, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * None of this makes any sense (going by what DjVulibre provides). Between inspecting the XML that Mpaa pulled earlier and what is currently found in DjVuImage, it seems that MediaWiki is doing twice the work that it should be (or needs to?) -- first by listing all the "objects" [the internal indirect djvu files] & their dimensions under <DjVuXML> followed by a per-page text dump under <DjVuTxt> -- the latter being the one with the internal file position -to- file name info when that info should be listed in the former. While its understandable to initially omit the text layer to insure the reporting of file size, dimensions and page count successfully executes first, at the same time there is absolutely no reason to leave out the position & page name in <DjVuXML> the way I see it. And the redundancy of compiling <DjVuTxt> afterwards is a "hack" at best; the proper way to limit the level of "detail" in the stored text layer to PAGE would be to edit the associated  file to reflect that as the default instead of LINE or WORD. Or did I just confuse everybody? -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Uploading of File:EB1911_-_Volume_25.djvu on its way. Why do you say that EB1911 vol. 25 works? It does not load text layer when I try to create a page.--Mpaa (talk) 22:19, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Awaiting upload . In the meantime an FYI - New version of DjVuLibre released 2/12/2015 MORE HERE. I don't know what, if anything, has been improved or changed. Please report if anybody finds something "new" -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:32, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Volume 25 works in the sense that the page images are there. We also have problems with other files where even the pages are not recognized and the file is reported as being 0x0 pixels.  File:EB1911_-_Volume_26.djvu currently has this latter problem.  Pathore (talk) 00:20, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah but Volume 25 had the same issue(s) at the outset that are affecting vol. 26 & 27 now so there is little to gain by spitting hairs here. I do think we are at the point now were we should focus on just one or two test cases suffering from this phenomenon and bot import text from IA's dump file along with new Page: creation for the remaining Index:es in trouble. Thoughts? -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:56, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * In short, we have multiple problems. One bug is causing some text layers to not show up, while another (or the same bug in another context) is causing DjVu files to be rejected in their entirety.  As for bot imports, I've been thinking a bit about writing a semi-automated tool that would use the DjVu text position annotations to separate text into headers, page bodies, footers, paragraphs, etc. and then automatically bulk-upload Page:s, complete with a special template for flagging words not in its dictionary as suspected OCR errors.  Pathore (talk) 04:34, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe that kind of "sectioning" is what  was intend for. Its this stupid circumventing of the creation of that DjVuLibre XML file for DjVu-txt or DjVu-dump that has irked me for years now. Here is an example of a proper XML output, complete with mapping for columns, regions, paragraphs, lines and words. -- George Orwell III (talk) 05:11, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That's close, but I have also been thinking about automatic detection of pictures and diagrams, so that, after the upload, all pages are either "not proofread" if they contain only text, or "problematic" if they contain marks in areas where there is no text. I'm still turning the architecture overview over in my head on this.  Pathore (talk) 05:20, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * - Its a matter of properly determining the x & y min/max coordinates for every element, No? If we have the entire PAGE's dimensions and the number of COLUMN or COLUMNs set, I think all we'd need is a way to detect REGION(s) substantially differing coordinate wise from other REGION(s) with the same COLUMN parent & PAGE; such a shift in x &/or y min/max would probably be a good sign that an image or line drawing resides within (opposed to the norm containing portions of the hidden/embedded text-layer). -- George Orwell III (talk) 05:54, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I was thinking more of starting with words (or even characters) and reconstructing the larger groups by matching up bounding boxes. The larger region information in DjVu isn't something I've ever heard of anyone actually relying on, so I would be somewhat reluctant to trust it.  After building up this kind of "box model", determining whether a gap between text boxes is a figure or just whitespace becomes a simple matter of decoding the DjVu image and checking if the possible figure has characteristics similar to the margin boxes.  Pathore (talk) 06:07, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me too & you have a point regarding the use & support of the "higher" containing elements.... but characters and/or words would be just as problematic from my experience -- frequently punctuation is incorrectly detected and deemed WORD-like for example. Even stray specks or pen marks are picked up and assigned WORD-like status. LINE is the obvious choice here imho. A LINE's slight indentation compared to other LINEs would be a decent marker for the equivalent of a Paragraph start just as a LINE less than the right-hand x-max (typically justified anyway) would be a good indicator of paragraph end [logically followed by a new paragraph start or if unusual offsets = could indicate your line drawing /image from before]. Colons, mdashes and the like would automatically collapse any errant whitespace/hair-space if LINE were used as the "lowest" element over WORD as well. Either way, the current .phps dealing with DjVu's feel more like handicaps than helpers and that's probably where an overhaul is needed before addressing fanciful things like what we're discussing. -- George Orwell III (talk) 06:28, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm planning to write this as a tool running locally on my computer for more-or-less that exact reason. This kind of processing simply isn't something for which PHP is well-adapted.  Nor does the tool have to be perfect; that's why we have proofreading.  But a Page: extractor won't be of much use if the server doesn't even recognize that the pages exist, so we do need to get the DjVu handling fixed.  Pathore (talk) 07:41, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


 * yes, please. vols 1 & 25 seem to no longer have a text layer; vols 26 & 27 have "numeric" error. it would be nice to have these sorted by year-end, so we can have all the volumes "proofread ready". <font face="Vijaya"> Slowking4 ♡ 18:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Incomplete author page
Can anyone please add ascertain the death-year for this author page and both birth- and death-years for this author page and add them? Thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 03:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * ???I'm confused. What is preventing you from doing it exactly? -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:25, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm confused at your confusion. I'm asking for help; which means I'm unable to do it myself; which again means I'm unable to get the relevant data. Hrishikes (talk) 04:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, I think I understand now. You don't actually know these dates and need help finding them out; not so much 'need help adding some dates to the author: namespace' (I edited your opening post to better reflect what I think you're asking help with). -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Chowdhury died 1939, and I have transcribed the Times obituary to the talk page. No indicative year of birth, though I would have said prior to 1880s at a minimum. For Sen, I have looked previously without results. I don't have good sources for India, the National Archives aren't useful, and I find the National Library better to use, though not necessarily helpful. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:59, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot; I don't know why this did not come up in my search. Hrishikes (talk) 14:47, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Index:The New Latin Primer (Postgate).djvu (pp 196, 198).
A fairly simple task if anyone is able to assist.

In the text for these pages is some typesetting for Prosody, but I was not happy with the rather hasty kludge I'd used, hence the ? in the page. Can anyone suggest what the appropriate symbols/notation this work is using? (And whether those symbols are supported in the version of Unicode Wikisource users are likely to be using.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:32, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * These are macron, breve etc. You may like to see the article Foot (prosody). Hrishikes (talk) 13:10, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Do you mean things like o͝o, where the breve tops two successive letters? I'm not sure how that's done, but I do know that on Wiktionary we've had to contend with the double-O version I pasted in. Someone there might know more. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:14, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I think you will find that is a use of the UNICODE "combining double breve" (html entity &amp;#x035D)? Something like  ought to produce similar output to your example (i.e. o&#x35D;o).

What does this mean?
I was reading an entry for a John Hawkins M.D. and noticed that it was followed by (fl. 1635). What does (fl.1635) mean?
 * here you go, see Floruit --Rochefoucauld (talk) 03:50, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It means flourished and refers to period when the person was active. But, huh, recently I thought that flourish means 'turn into flour', or turn into dust, so this abbreviation should refer to the point of time when the person vanished. LOL --Nonexyst (talk) 23:44, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

When to use 'uc' template to transform text to uppercase
Under what circumstances would it be appropriate to use the uc template? This template transforms the given text to all capital letters -- for example: EXAMPLE produces EXAMPLE.

Recently I've been proofreading/validation documents produced on a typewriter that use ALL UPPERCASE headings, and have been concerned that maybe I've been doing it wrong by just writing the headings in all capitals instead of using the aforementioned template.

Any guidance would be appreciated. (There are similar templates lc (lowercase) and capitalize (first letter capitalized) that I similarly do not know the proper circumstances of, but which I've not had the opportunity to use to date.)

Best. -- Mukkakukaku (talk) 04:26, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
 * When should you use it? Never. Highlight EXAMPLE, copy it, paste it into a text editor: you get "example". Turns out it wasn't upper-case text at all, it was lower-case text masquerading as upper-case text. The template is evil. It should be deleted. Hesperian 06:00, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Disclaimer: some browsers are smart enough to push upper-case to the clipboard, so your mileage on my copy-paste demo may vary. I think my point stands. Hesperian 06:01, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
 * How does the 'evil' argument not equally condemn sc?  cuts/pastes as "Example", but it looks like E (E) which cut/pastes as "EXAMPLE". Not too sure where you are going with this argument? 121.218.57.230 06:50, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
 * "" is obviously styled, and I am comfortable with it decomposing to "Example" when that styling is removed. "EXAMPLE" has the appearance of unstyled text, it can easily be rendered using unstyled text, and I am not comfortable with it actually being completely different text with a surreptitious styling applied to it. Hesperian 00:28, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Not precisely a defence of this template, but there is a good case to be made for using the parser-function equivalent { {uc:example}} — which produces EXAMPLE — which does screen-scrape correctly and reliably as [EXAMPLE] — and that usage is within templates which may need to compare two strings in a case-insensitive fashion. Simply consistently uppercase/lowercase/capitalise both quantities to be compared (say) in a { {#ifeq:}} test. For reference these parser function/magic keywords exist and produce results as shown:<ol><li>{ {uc:eXaMpLe}}: produces EXAMPLE;</li><li>{ {lc:eXaMpLe}}: produces example;</li><li>{ {lcfirst:eXaMpLe}}: produces eXaMpLe; and</li><li>{ {ucfirst:eXaMpLe}}: produces EXaMpLe.</li></ol>N.B. Functions 3 & 4 affect only the initial letter of the string, so to produce sentence capitalisation something akin to { {ucfirst:{ {lc:eXaMpLe}}}} would be required (produces: Example as expected.) (Buried in "official" documentation about two-three screenfulls down from here: MW:Help:Magic_words) AuFCL (talk) 10:04, 8 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't prescribe to the "never" scenario, I would say "hardly ever". My commentary is that I use it with some newspaper articles where the capitalisation has been made by the sub-editor, not the author. I use it as newspaper articles when they come back from search engines can look butt ugly. So I get the presentation form for the article, though the text as for a search engine. — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:18, 8 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Somewhere I got the idea that uc is for text that is uppercased for emphasis or as a matter of typographical style, but would ordinarily be mixed-case. I used it on [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:The_Under-Ground_Railroad.djvu/7&oldid=5210452 this page] to produce text that appears to almost exactly match the source (except for vertical spacing, because vertical whitespace doesn't really make sense in hypertext), but, if copied and pasted, comes out in normal title case.  In short, I use it to preserve the appearance while allowing the text itself to conform to modern case usage if the markup is stripped, since plain text is easier to read in mixed case.  As long as headings would remain distinguishable in some way, I support using uc with mixed-case text.  (I have some older reading devices that can handle plain text but not HTML markup, so I tend to think about these kinds of issues more than most, I guess.)  Pathore (talk) 02:04, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I also don't agree with "never". The template uses CSS for styling which is completely appropriate. In other words, the correct capitalization is stored "behind" the styling. This important for parsing the text, such as is done by search engine spiders. I tend to change all caps from books to the correct case and style it with the template (which uses CSS) as needed. However, I notice many books where the all-caps text has been copied and I don't agree with this as style and content should be separated as much as possible. (And yes, I know that it can't be separated as much as it should be on WS.) The Haz talk 01:13, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Nevertheless, all that laziness in applying 'template approaches' such as this uppercase based one today will just make more maintenance work for somebody else one day in the future. Hesp was right; Never apply is best because today's specs regarding this nuance are dumb at best -- the future CSS3 implementations will allow for more flexibility in better defined scenarios for titling-case instances, section-label instances and similiar. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:30, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Possible Cite.php bug encountered with Table 4-12 in Index:NIOSH Hazard review of Carbonless Copy Paper.pdf
I've transcluded the full table together in the [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource:Sandbox&oldid=5258038 Sandbox], but there I'm getting "<strong class="error mw-ext-cite-error">Cite error: Invalid   tag; no text was provided for refs named  ". The reference in question (along with the table's other footnotes) is defined in a  block on Page:NIOSH Hazard review of Carbonless Copy Paper.pdf/117, which is also transcluded into the footer on PDF pages 97 and 98. The error also appears on those pages, along with a bunch of errors about unused references, since each page of the table only uses some of the footnotes.

The reason I think I've hit a bug in Cite.php is that the "missing" reference is also used in two of the other footnotes, and renders without issue on the table's footnote page. Pathore (talk) 02:35, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks to George Orwell III's efforts, the table looks a lot better now (the footnotes are now numbered left-to-right across the top in the transcluded table). Since I didn't like hardwiring "reference" links, I kept looking for a better solution and this edit seems to have worked around the underlying problem.  Special:ExpandTemplates showed that   was being transcluded as  ; that is, transclusion is not strictly text substitution and incorrect results are silently produced if partial transclusion tags do not properly nest with other tags.  Pathore (talk) 23:46, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

'Wikisource does not have a page with this exact name'? Oh?
My user name is "MisterCat" and I've been registered here for a few years now, or so I thought. For reasons best known to persons other than myself, my user name now appears in red and the admonition "Wikisource does not have a page with this exact name" presents itself when I click on the newly-reddened "MisterCat" hyperlink. My profile, on the other hand, thinks I'm duly registered and even offered to consolidate all "MisterCat" appearances site-wide; and so I followed up on that offer. Supposedly, that task was accomplished; but I'm still the red "MisterCat" here, the guy who allegedly hasn't a profile page. (But I do have one! Honest!)  What can I do to stop being red and sending seekers, including myself, on a snipe hunt? Your courteous and helpful advice, dear readers, will be greatly appreciated. Thank you! -- MisterCat (talk) 20:07, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You need to create the page User:MisterCat. that's where your user page for the English Wikisource will be located. Until that page exists here, the link from your name will be red. It has nothing to do with your account; the red link indicates the absence of a particular page. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:29, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Easily fixed. (and I am not even logged in!) 124.184.180.188 22:26, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * However, it is best practice to edit your user page while logged in, so that future admins know for certain that your page was not "vandalised" by an anonymous user. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Index:Egyptian self-taught (Arabic) (1914).djvu (p6,7)
Anyone here familiar with Arabic script? I've done most of this work, but would appreciate someone that knows the arabic scripts assisting in the construction in the tables on these pages.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:15, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * You can apply to people listed in Category:User ar. Hrishikes (talk) 12:18, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Can an image taken from a historical US official book be uploaded?
The image I want to uploaded is from a book called "Foreign relations of the United States, Conference at Cairo and Tehran, 1943". It was one of the Foreign Relations Series, which are collections of historical documents of foreign relations from United States Department of State and are published by United States Government Printing Office. The series are now hosted on University of Wisconsin and can be freely read online. The one I'm referring to is this one, and this is its publishing (1961) information.

The page I want to upload is page 640. Can it be uploaded? If so, can I cut the page horizontally in half with Photoshop and only upload the bottom half? --Matt Smith (talk) 09:43, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't see any "image" on P. 640. You do realize a scan of a printed page containing text might be considered an image file, its the content (the text) that is the "focus" as far as copyright protection(s) are concerned. Since the original is a product of the U.S. [Federal] Government - its excluded from copyright protections and thus, is in the Public Domain. Its ok to do with as you wish in short. -- George Orwell III (talk) 09:54, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you are right. Sorry for not being clear. What I actually want to upload is "the image scan of p. 640".
 * Thank you for helping me fathom the copyright question. To be honest, I just realized that I should have asked this question on Wikimedia or Wikipedia because the place I want to use the image at is on a Wikipedia page. But I still thank you for helping me at here. Cheers.--Matt Smith (talk) 10:23, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

remove boilerplate before adding new text
I would like to add the original 1847 edition of "History of the press of western new york" by Frederick Follett to en.wikisource.org. IA has the 1920 and 1973 reprints but not the original 1847 edition - books.google.com has the 1847 edition about 80 pages. I would appreciate help from someone who can remove the google boilerplate and upload to IA to create the djvu file. There was a discussion of this topic on https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Help:Internet_Archive/Requested_uploads which seems to be an old thread that no one reads. Robin2014 (talk) 16:19, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * ✅ https://archive.org/details/historyofpressin00foll_1 Hrishikes (talk) 17:58, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

How do I cancel specific electronic-mail notifications?
So ... how do I cancel specific electronic-mail notifications? I recall seeing a box (which I'd ticked) asking if I wanted to be notified of changes, but I can't find that box anymore and I've been unable to find a box asking if I want to NOT be notified. Your help in this matter will be greatly appreciated. Thank you! -- MisterCat (talk) 18:58, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo should be the User: preference page you're looking for... if not -- try https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-personal  as well. -- George Orwell III (talk) 19:09, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much, George Orwell III, for your help! It looks like one either accepts ALL e-mails or cancels them all, so I've cancelled them.  Alas! -- MisterCat (talk) 20:25, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * If all else fails, disable JavaScript, then go to Special:Preferences. (The fancy tabs rely on JavaScript; without it, everything is displayed on one long page.)  There should be a "Notify me about these events" box near the bottom, with two columns of checkboxes, one labeled "Web" and the other labeled "Email".
 * The single checkbox you seem to have found under "Email options" is to allow or disallow other users to use Special:EmailUser/MisterCat. I don't think it affects notifications.  Pathore (talk) 02:03, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Transcribing a tune
Hi, I'd like to transcribe the state song of the U.S. state of Oregon. Can somebody familiar with such things help me get started? -Pete (talk) 22:53, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I've created an index page for it: Index:Oregon, My Oregon.jpg. For the transcription, a good starting point is Help:Sheet music and Help:LilyPond. See Faith of Our Fathers for an example of a similar transcription. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 23:15, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Marvelous, thank you! I'll take a look. -Pete (talk) 23:17, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Same reference for three refs?
On this page there are three reference marks (*) pointing to the same reference. How can I resolve this?Ineuw (talk) 03:34, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Name the reference and then re-use it. See Page:Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 1.djvu/162 for an example. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:46, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The Ante-Nicene Fathers case is rather different to this one, in that that contains two references to the same text fragment. However if you read the context of the PSM page there is in fact one reference only which in turn contains another fully resolved sub-reference. I believe the "bar" separator at the bottom of the page ought to be incorporated into the text of the reference expansion. The clue to all of this is the lead-in discussion which reads "aggregate membership of nearly nine thousand". Clearly this refers to the table as it is a statement of fact and not in fact an estimation as implied if the (nested) reference is treated as primary. Obviously some interpretations differ from mine. 121.216.134.246 07:40, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I just "fixed" it -- hopefully if you look at the diff you can see the pattern. Note that you don't need quotes if there are no spaces in the ref's name, but you do need quotes if there are. (So, e.g., ) Also, note that the trailing slash is used only after the reference has been defined (i.e., the 2nd and 3rd instances, but not the 1st.) -Pete (talk) 03:52, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Salute you both. Thank you.Ineuw (talk) 04:03, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Oops. Crashed into above edit. Somebody please sort out the wreckage. Oh the humanity! 04:21, 7 March 2015 (UTC) I think it is pretty clear it is a nested ref i.e. the footnote has a footnote. I have nested them; submitted for consideration; revert me if you disagree. Hesperian 11:08, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * This poor page has been hung, quertered, suffocated, garroted, shot, roasted on fire, and finally drowned. Why can't the community leave this poor page alone as it was recommended originally — with named anchors???Ineuw (talk) 03:58, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Well my edits neatly cancelled themselves out, so if you want to clean up and remove them no skin off my nose. AuFCL (talk) 04:12, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

why was Military%E2%80%93Industrial_Complex_Speech deleted
why was http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93Industrial_Complex_Speech deleted?
 * As far as I can tell, that page has never existed. I think the page for which you're looking is one of the links from Eisenhower's farewell address. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 15:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Why is Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License missing in the Licensing of the Upload-Wizard?
There's only ShareAlike 3 & 2.5 -> why? Couldn't find any information on that. I was able to select the 4.0 License in hindsight, but it's missing from the Licensing ListBox. To me this seems to be an error. --Fixuture (talk) 14:26, 7 March 2015 (UTC)


 * upload wizard is relatively unsupported. you would think they would jump to build on the good work of user:mindspillage, but alas not. i’ve been going to c:Commons:VicuñaUploader. <font face="Vijaya"> Slowking4 ♡ 21:07, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Looking at the config item (wgUploadWizardConfig) in http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=CommonSettings.php cc-by-sa-4.0 is allowed. If it is not coming through as a choice, then it should be a request. — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:08, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I think I added the 4.0 series to the list so that it is a working option for all [local] uploaders now. Please verify. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:06, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Moving an image from Wikipedia to Commons
If there is someone with the technical skill and permissions to do a proper transfer of to Commons at File:LYSISTRATAstaging.jpg, I would appreciate it. I can only transfer files the old fashioned way: download locally, then re-upload, which is a complicated process that doesn't preserve the edit history from the original location. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:53, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅, using tool: w:User:This, that and the other/For the Common Good. -- Cirt (talk) 22:16, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The documentation for that tool doesn't encourage me, as it's described as "most likely" working on my MacOS. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:09, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, no worries,, good luck with it! :) -- Cirt (talk) 23:22, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Very much so. You can see at Commons all the pages where I've already linked it, both here in the Portal:Ancient Greek drama and elsewhere across the Wikipedias. —unsigned comment by EncycloPetey (talk).
 * Excellent. I wasn't aware of this tool, will check it out. For these purposes I use Commons Helper, which lives on the Tool Labs site (and thus doesn't require you to run anything locally); I don't think it requires any advanced permission on either site (if you're not an admin, it gives you a nice easy button to request speedy deletion). There's also a nice script (which you can install at Meta, making it available on all wikis) that will give you a lefthand nav bar link "move to commons". See relevant links at the bottom of my blog post: -Pete (talk) 22:25, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
 * ps I have now deleted the local description page on enwp. -Pete (talk) 22:28, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Great tools,, thanks for the helpful suggestions! :) -- Cirt (talk) 22:43, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No problem. It's amazing how many useful tools go unnoticed in this wacky wiki world -- it's always hard to find the right one for the task. FYI, also created a tool that permits the opposite -- moving a file from Commons to a local wiki -- useful in (relatively rare, but nevertheless significant) cases where a file is not permissible on Commons, but is permissible by a local wiki's policy. (Would have been useful, for instance, in the recent case you and I looked at, if the prevailing sentiment at Commons had been that the file should be deleted there.) I have used it, but I'm having trouble locating it or remembering its name right now. -Pete (talk) 01:26, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: With "For the Common Good" if you need a configuration file for transferring from enWikisource to Commons, I have a version for download at User:Billinghurst/tools/FtCG configuration file for enWS.wiki. If moving multiple files, or needing to rewrite descriptions/templates on the fly, it is the preferred tool; if you are just looking to move one, then CommonsHelper and as is an OAuth tool. — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:05, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks - an ability to move multiple files and deal with changes to the description page is very attractive; I will try using it for the Centennial History of Oregon images discussed in the blog post/screencast above. Thanks for explaining! -Pete (talk) 15:18, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

I have made excellent PDFs of Public Domain books.
Is there a way I can donate my PDFs to Wikipedia so that anyone who wants to can download them?
 * The Wikimedia foundation's media are hosted at the Wikimedia Commons. You may be able to upload them there. Abyssal (talk) 20:21, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It might work best if you first upload them to the Internet Archive and then, after IA processes them, upload the resulting DjVu files to Commons. This is especially so if your PDFs lack an OCR layer. IA will add one and their OCR is quite good these days. Pathore (talk) 21:49, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That is great information, . To the original poster: If you find IA's upload process daunting, don't let that stop you. Far better than doing nothing, would be to upload them directly to Commons, and let one of us handle the other steps. If you choose that path, hopefully this link is all you need: commons:Special:UploadWizard -Pete (talk) 22:17, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Should we recreate line diagrams or use original scans?
I've been working on some 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica articles, and have run into items that straddle the boundary between image and text: diagrams consisting only of lines and words. In one case I decided to recreate the diagrams (see Page:EB1911 - Volume 28.djvu/1059 and below left) which enhances readability, and in another I simply uploaded scans of the diagrams (see Page:EB1911 - Volume 28.djvu/1060 and below right), which preserves more of the original "look" and typography, but at the cost of some readability. Are there best practices for handling such diagrams? Addendum: An ideal situation would be to somehow have all words in the diagram machine-readable, even if displayed at an angle. Thanks. -Animalparty (talk) 22:53, 11 March 2015 (UTC)


 * If you're redrawing a diagram, it should probably be in SVG. Pathore (talk) 23:42, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree, and have done so. (Note: added galleries above for convenience). Animalparty (talk) 00:31, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * We are reproducing the book, so we should show the figure as it was at the time, with what you are suggesting is an annotated form. We can use  within an image to capture words. It is a less than perfect situation either way, and one that harks back to the whole annotation argument or replication vs. modernisation. — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:56, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I had always understood that some degree of modernization is inevitable on Wikisource&mdash;after all, we are working in hypertext here. That said, I'm not sure where exactly the line should be drawn, since some diagrams (like these) really are little more than text arranged in an unusual way. We make no attempt to preserve every last exact detail of typography. For example, we certainly don't care about reproducing the typeface of an original in the body text. For the examples Animalparty has provided, how are these simple diagrams significantly different from tables? Both are primarily special arrangements of words, which we often try to duplicate for a table, but we make no effort to ensure that the fonts match the original in a table. An SVG also has the advantage that text inside the figure may be selectable. On the other hand, redrawing even these simple figures could be a large amount of work or require different skills from ordinary proofreading. For figures like these, I propose we consider these figures an example of advanced typography: SVG vector drawings are certainly appreciated, but a simple image taken from the original is also acceptable. Pathore (talk) 01:44, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I think no formulaic answer will be possible; there is always going to be some judgment call about where the line should be drawn. The nature of what we do with text eliminates the original line breaks, alters footnote styles and sometimes numbering, etc.; so it's hard for me to see merit in the position that our ( insert: overriding) goal is to reproduce what was published in a pure form. Given the examples above, assuming that is the best scan likely to be available in the foreseeable future, I would strongly support recreation. That scan looks bad on screen, and would look much worse when printed -- almost illegible. Providing a recreation that could look decent in print offers a valuable asset to the reader, which is not available in the raw page scan, is not available at the Internet Archive, etc. I see this kind of recreation as part of the core value proposition of Wikisource. -Pete (talk) 02:03, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The sentiments Pete expressed above summarize the situation well. There is no one answer that will always apply. The very fact that we have templates like custom rule which mimic, but do not exactly reproduce, simple graphics textual divisions clearly illustrates that we are not always simply reproducing the graphical aspect of books. That said, we should try to mimic the source as closely as possible within the limitations of our electronic medium. The easy accessibility of a side-by-side comparison will attend to the rest. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:17, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for weighing in, everyone. I agree there's no firm rule, and it's best to treat these on a case by case basis, and believe that in this case the diagrams are more akin to tables then to images: both tables and these line diagrams represent organized relationships between entities. Had they been a little more "artistic" (e.g. a, unique hand-drawn sketch like File:Darwins first tree.jpg), I would likely have erred on the side of using the original. I think I may upload both original scans and svg versions to aid in verification, in the vein of File:Darwin divergence.jpg and its svg counterpart File:Origin of Species.svg. Lastly, I'm surprised no one added "no pun intended" after discussing "where to draw the line"! Best, Animalparty (talk) 02:38, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Can not find my book (PediaPress)
I created a book yesterday named "MEDIVENTURE" in wikipedia but cannot retrieve/edit/find the book anywhere in wiki. The book is still visible in PediaPress but can't be edited (can not insert any new content). I am also not being able to add pages to the book I created. Please help.
 * Are you sure it was made/saved here on en[glish].Wikisource.org under the same account? Your User: history & the logs indicate the above was your first time visiting here is why I ask. -- George Orwell III (talk) 09:50, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Wikisource displays with the wrong resolution
There is something wrong with the english wikisource site display. It is outsized! This is a problem only here, but not on any other Wiki site, Wikipedia French Wikisource, etc., or elsewhere on the web.- The attached file is from Firefox on Windows 7, but I also tested Linux and it's exactly the same. Would this be the result of the latest wmf update??? Ineuw (talk) 20:51, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * How about now Mr. Modern skin user? -- George Orwell III (talk) 20:56, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Much better, in fact it's normal. Thank you. What's wrong with the Modern skin? It's offered and I like it. Ineuw (talk) 21:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It's one of the 3 "leftover" skins that was kept with the introduction of the -- and I use the term lightly -- current standard; . And, as you already know, Modern is just a more intricate rehash of the previous standard; . Please remember - they both come from a time in Wiki development when the specifications they were based on are nearly all deprectated in today's terms. Plus they existed in a core Wiki environment that wasn't on a weekly schedule for updates like we have now. Bottom line -- just because its available doesn't necessarily mean its fully supported. Even 's days are numbered as Visual Editor & Mobile Mode usage looks to overtake desktop view sooner rather than later. That said - it was totally my fault. I keep forgetting not to base post-change assessments based on how the Special: preference page renderings look. My bad again. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:08, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Another problem
The images on this page are also affected by the size problem. To me, they appear 10 times as large as they should be. Ineuw (talk) 21:42, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Should be OK now as well. Just another example where one thing works under a given browser & skin but is not necessarily true for all browsers under every skin. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:10, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Investigation of the Ferguson Police Department (2015)
Hello, I just uploaded this text to Wikisource, but it's quite big and I'd like some help with it. If anybody can help in proofreading it and transcribing it, that'd be much appreciated. Thanks! Also, there's a PDF version of this uploaded here as well, but since there's a superior DJVU version, could somebody delete the PDF version? Thanks. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 18:54, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Good text, thanks for starting this. Working on it a bit now. -Pete (talk) 20:21, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Here's another accompanying work. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 11:03, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

I've (a it tendentiously, I guess) run though all 100+ pages of this. I'm currently going back through to make the formatting of the section headers (which was a bit odd) uniform thoughout the work, but it's ready for verification of the transcription... the OCR was quite good in most places, other than fixing apostrophes, quotation marks, and various types of hyphens. Revent (talk) 05:38, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Just as a note, I'm intending to also do the Michael Brown one next, mainly because I'm interested in reading it, and proofing it at the same time isn't much of a burden. :) Revent (talk) 06:02, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Index:Dictionary of Christian Biography and Literature (1911).djvu
I have recently more or less finished adding at least basic individual pages to the above index, in the hope, eventually, of transferring the content to the existing Dictionary of Christian Biography and Literature to the End of the Sixth Century. However, I do see a few problems, of which the primary one might be the existing names of the individual article pages which have already been created. Those pages have names often substantially different from the names given to the individual articles in the source itself. Some of those pages may even have names which are problematic in referring to the subject by names by which it is not generally known. What would be the correct way to deal with such matters? John Carter (talk) 22:14, 13 March 2015 (UTC)


 * It might help if you gave two or three specific examples (with links) of the kinds of problems you anticipate. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:35, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, should have thought of that myself, shouldn't I? So I'm not bright sometimes.;)
 * Dictionary of Christian Biography and Literature to the End of the Sixth Century/Georgius (43), patron saint of England is a combination of the name of the article as per the bolding, which is "Georgius (43)", with the addition of the first descriptive words of the article. But in that case the subject's common name is generally Saint George. Would it be better to use the original name "Georgius (43)", or the existing term, or Saint George?
 * Dictionary of Christian Biography and Literature to the End of the Sixth Century/Alexander, of Alexandria is evidently, according to the wikipedia article anyway, Pope Alexander of Alexandria, although I think the more common name outside of the Coptic church might be Alexander of Alexandria. Which of those names would be best, or, maybe, would Patriarch Alexander of Alexandria be best?
 * Dictionary of Christian Biography and Literature to the End of the Sixth Century/Joannes (504), abbat of Mt. Sinai is apparently according to wikipedia most generally called John Climacus. Would it be best to use "Joannes (504)," which is really kinda weird if you ask me, but the real name of the article, the current descriptive name, which isn't that much more clear, or the name John Climacus?
 * Those are a few examples. FWIW, my own choice would be to keep the titles of the articles exactly as used in the original source itself. From having looked over the pages of the book, it refers to several other reference books in its bibliographies and several of the articles directly refer to other articles within the work. That being the case, it would probably be easiest to find them if the titles were kept as originally published. And, on a mildly related point, this work says in the introduction it is a collection of articles in a previous edition, with apparently most of the articles omitted. The numbering however is kept consistent with the first edition, and, again according to the introduction, the texts of those articles was kept as consistent with the earlier edition as possible. So, in the unlikely event anyone ever tries to add the earlier edition, it might be easier to find which articles are reproduced verbatim by following the consistent naming patterns of the work themselves. We can always include portal links of some sort to the articles which are perhaps not under what would today be the most obvious names. John Carter (talk) 15:17, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I would support having all articles under their original names (as found in the scans). We can always have redirects from more "common" names. Pathore (talk) 01:38, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That leaves the question what to do with the existing pages for the several articles under the somewhat original names. John Carter (talk) 18:26, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The simple answer would be to move them to the exact names in the source. We can always have redirects. Pathore (talk) 04:26, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Seeking Advice/tips on Table formatting
Hi all, I'm trying to figure out how to create tables that only have borders on select columns and cells, case in point: the complex table at Page:Wood 1865 - The Myriapoda of North America.djvu/25 (I'd like to get rid of all the row borders to better match the original table, and if there's a way to automatically center all columns, that would be helpful to in order to avoid manually entering "align=center" on every cell!). I've seen similar tables in Encyclopedia Britannica sources (e.g. File:Zoological Distribution Molluscan regions EB1911.png, so any tips or intervention are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Animalparty (talk) 22:35, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I decided that making an example by improving that table would be helpful, so I've redone the table formatting on that page. You seem to be looking for the ts template, which provides shorthand codes for many common bits of table style markup. It also uses CSS, which means that some (but not all&mdash;use that preview button!) styles can be inherited. In this case, that means that  at the top of the table is enough to make the default alignment for all table cells "center", such that it can still be overridden when needed.
 * I would suggest reading about the HTML table model, since wikitable markup ultimately expands into XHTML. This can be particularly useful for understanding how to set column widths. (Hint: set a width on the first cell in the column; the rest will (usually) follow suit) The help pages, both here and at Wikipedia describe the details of wikitable syntax. Pathore (talk) 01:35, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for making those changes; I'll study the syntax and link for future reference. Cheers, Animalparty (talk) 04:17, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington
Hellow! Works of Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington are in the public domain now. So I've made Index:Eddington A. Space, Time and Gravitation. 1920.djvu. Please proofread it. --Максим Пе (talk) 13:43, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * A note to editors: The title of the work is Space Time and Gravitation. The comma in the name of the DjVu file is erroneous (it will not affect editing the work). The work is on the interplay of (a) space-time and (b) gravitation, and is not discussing three separate topics. However, it would be nice if someone with the use of a bot could rename the file at Commons and move the few pages created here so far. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:42, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Is that sufficient grounds for any of us to get someone at Commons to rename the file or does need to put in the rename request (as "uploader requested") at Commons? There are only 16 pages done so far, few enough that I'll do the moves manually, if the rename is done before too many more pages are added. Also, what is going on with that Table of Contents on the Index page? I see it overlapping with the index fields. Pathore (talk) 22:48, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * If the pages here are moved, then I can do the renaming at Commons afterwards. A move/rename at Commons is not so big a thing now as it used to be.


 * The table of Contents on the Index page is a temporary version inserted manually, and it can be replaced once the Contents in the source file is proofread. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:42, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I've just finished doing the moves here; go ahead and rename the file on Commons. It looks like the page list will be broken until the rename goes through there. Pathore (talk) 03:50, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I've also found the actual cause of the page layout problem: the "Cover image" field is supposed to be a page number, it seems, but was an actual [[File:]] link instead. Now that I've fixed it, the cover image is also a red link until the Commons rename goes through. Pathore (talk) 04:36, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Move I'm not sure why this took so long but I happened to see that this file needed renaming because I was alerted through Special:Notifications when User:Максим Пе thanked me. I moved it on Commons and then came back here and saw all this. I'm not that interested in proofreading this text but I'll help validate if someone pings me on it. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:08, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

This is a bit of a mess. Unfortunately the proper name on the Commons should have been File:Space, Time and Gravitation (1920).djvu which currently is a redirect to the bad file name. I can move files but this requires a delete which I can't do. One must ask for help and explain that the redirect should be the right file name.— Ineuw talk 05:11, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Do the pages here on Wikisource need to be moved again? Also, there is no comma in the title, so the correct name would be File:Space Time and Gravitation (1920).djvu, which does not exist at the time of this writing. Pathore (talk) 05:16, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Move I don't understand the problem: the index is fine now and synced with Commons. I've since validated and edited pages to this text. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:19, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Now I'm getting confused. As I see it, the file was uploaded under the name "Eddington A. Space, Time and Gravitation. 1920.djvu". It was pointed out that there is no comma in the title of the work, so I moved all of the pages to remove the comma, but I can't move files at Commons, so I left the note in the index. Now it is being pointed out that "Eddington A. Space Time and Gravitation. 1920.djvu" doesn't follow the standard naming convention in some other way that I am just now learning about. 16 pages isn't too many to move by hand, but if the work gets mostly proofread before we decide on its file name, things get messier. Pathore (talk) 05:27, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Everything fine as it now stands. Both our files and the file on Commons have been correctly renamed, as they should be. Everything is fine. It only looked like a mess during the brief period after we had renamed our local files, but the source file on Commons had not yet been moved. Once everything was moved, the mess was resolved. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:06, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * There is no reason to add a comma to the book's title. It never had one. Einstein's concept of spacetime can be written with a blank space (space time), a hyphen (space-time), or be written as a single word (spacetime), but it cannot be written with a comma in the middle of the term. That would be like saying you "rode a school, bus" instead of saying "rode a school bus". It's nonsense to insert a comma into the middle of a term. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

OMG! I think you are missed. First of all filenames are very free at Commons. For example File:LorentzStatement1920.djvu => Index:LorentzStatement1920.djvu => The Einstein Theory of Relativity I've put filename "Space,  Time and Gravitation" with comma because that was in source — Internet Archive. Also please look at Project Gutenberg: Space,  Time and Gravitation by Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington and Amazon: Space ,  Time and Gravitation: An Outline of the General Relativity Theory (Classic Reprint) At last I don't know why there is no comma in first edition title. Really :-) May it be misprint? --Максим Пе (talk) 14:40, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * No, the comma was not in the source (the original book), it was an arbitrary file name choice at IA for their file name. Nor is it necessary for us to keep the IA name when uploading to Commons. There is no comma is the title of the work, nor should there be. Presumably what happened is that someone unfamiliar with the concept of spacetime inserted a comma when uploading to IA. The IA file name was an error; the title page of the book is correct. There should never a comma placed in the middle of a noun phrase like "space time".


 * The reason that Gutenberg and Google also contain the comma is that all three come from the same mistranscribed source error. If you look at the text itself in the copies, there is no comma on the book's title page, only in the name under which they have chosen to list the book. So, again, it is a file name error made by people unfamiliar with the concept of spacetime. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:03, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, look at one of the first translations: Espace,  Temps et Gravitation (French 1921). Also notice Eddington wasn't used term "spacetime" or "space time", but always "space and time". Can't you believe in misprint till now? Максим Пе (talk) 16:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * A translation is a different work, and tells us nothing about the original that is useful in this regard. I have seen many translations of titles that were mangled in translation. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:50, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Indeed, space-time has no comma; but this consists of space and time and this classic book is one of the first works to describe the concept to the people. This is a book about the inter-relation of space, time and gravitation, where the components together make spacetime and its warping makes gravitation. The comma is present in the title; see the front cover here and here. Hrishikes (talk) 16:19, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Talk with any author, and you'll find that it's the publisher that creates and designs the cover, not the author. Many times the title on the cover of a book will not match the author's desires, or even the title page within the same volume. For this reason, librarians rely upon the title page version of the title, and not the title printed on the cover of a book. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:50, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I am fine with a comma, or no comma in the title. Please notice the comma in this post.— Ineuw talk 17:29, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * On the one hand, the work itself consistently uses no comma in its title on both djvu pages 7 and 11. The text itself seems to consistently refer to "time and space"; a search for "space time" gives hits only on the title pages and "space, time" matches only within the phrase "views of space, time, or force" on djvu page 196. Djvu page 13 has a call number&mdash;QC6 E42&mdash; written on it. A search for this call number in the UC Berkeley online catalog retrieves records listing the title as "Space, time and gravitation : an outline of the general relativity theory". On Wikisource, do we use the title from the work's own title page, or do we use the title as used by actual librarians? Do I need to undo all those moves? Pathore (talk) 23:52, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * We generally follow the title give on the work's own title page, and not what other people have called the work. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:50, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * There is another angle too. This work is universally referred to with a comma, as can be easily verified with a simple Google search. Here at WS, a work should be placed under its commonly attributed name, so that it is visible in the first page of a Google search when potential readers search it. This should have primacy, not erudite discussion about what the author might have desired. The author is not going to come back from where he is and read it at WS, lay people like we commoners are going to read it; if people have difficulty in finding it, then what is the purpose of putting it here? Hrishikes (talk) 04:08, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * So we will definitely need a redirect, then. Or I'll move it again if three other people can agree on its proper name. Pathore (talk) 06:18, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There will never be a need to move it again. At most, we can use a redirect, but I suspect that internet search functions can cope with the presence or absence of a comma. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:32, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

I think, at this point of the discussion, opinion of other editors are required. So I shall summarize the case, with additional points. Hrishikes (talk) 04:23, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) The name of the work, as shown in the front cover of 1987 Cambridge edition as part of Cambridge Science Classics as well as 2011 edition shown by Google Books, has a comma between space and time.
 * 2) The title page of the version added here does not have this comma.
 * 3) The version present here is from Internet Archive, which shows the comma.
 * 4) The IA version is originally from UC Berkeley, whose online catalogue shows the comma.
 * 5) User:Максим Пе has pointed out that Gutenberg, Amazon and a French translation, all have the comma.
 * 6) EncycloPetey has opined that:
 * 7) Space time does not require a comma in between, being a single concept.
 * 8) Pathore has pointed out that the term space time, without a comma, is present only on the title pages of the work, and not in the main body.
 * 9) The title page is to be preferred, because the front cover is publisher-designed.
 * 10) Here I submit additional evidence, to show that the title page is also publisher-designed, at least it used to be at the period and place of this work's publication. At Index:The King of the Dark Chamber.djvu, a reputed publisher like Macmillan made wrong attribution of the translator on the title page. This got corrected only in later editions on written protest from the original author. This episode has been discussed by academicians in scholarly works as found here and here. Therefore, the front cover and title page are both publisher-designed and carry equal value as regards the name of the work.
 * 11) This is not only about the matter of a comma or only this work. A general policy is required about how to decide the title if there is discrepancy between front cover and title page. Is opinion of other websites, including online catalogues of university libraries and book-sellers, to be given weightage? Is the subject matter of the work, as detailed in the main body, to be given weightage? I sincerely request other editors to offer their esteemed opinion.


 * Good lord.. really?
 * Nobody comes here nor to Commons for a source file - they most likely do the same thing we do - rip it from Internet Archive, HathiTrust, or Google Books ∴ the only thing that contributors should be concerned about for the title they select for a source file being uploaded is that it a.) makes rationale and logistical sense to other potential wiki___ contributors and/or projects more so than any academic consideration(s) followed by b.) the fact at some point and time in existing history, even the presence of the simplest of punctuation gave the "rendering system" enough reason not to render at all. This is a case where the less [punctuation] one applies the less likely [punctuation] will ever cause rendering "issues" in the future. Plus its not like the final proofread & validated text is [re]inserted into these source files anyway - if somebody downloads or open one they get the same garbage we did on the day when we first started PR'ing the work.
 * The same premise outlined above generally applies to the Index: title. Nobody outside us familiar clowns knows or cares about the Index: name or namespace -- especially IF everything has been "done", validated and presented in the main namespace.
 * The main namespace root page's title is the most important (both internally and externally). Nobody stopping by here gives a sh!t about anything else -- if landing on the mainspace is hindered by "poor naming practices" in reality, I assure you the traffic will go to the places where we ripped the source file from to begin with instead.
 * -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:46, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * (Edit conflict) Some of the assertions made above are misleading or at least incomplete in their summary. Specific instances:
 * The IA version does NOT contain the comma. The comma appears only in their filename. The comma appears nowhere in their scan of the book.
 * Several instances listed above are not independent of each other, and therefore cannot be counted as independent lines of reasoning. To whit, if the IA version comes from UC Berkeley, then the comma in the IA filename is likely the result of it being present in the UCB catalogue and not of an independent decision.
 * Only a single title page is mentioned, but it has been pointed illustrated that even an edition with a comma on the cover does not include that comma on the title page.
 * The assertion of a single instance where a mistake was made in a publication on the title page does not demonstrate that it is of equal weight with the cover. The internal pages of books are routinely sent to authors for verification and proofreading. The cover is not. When books are reprinted, the internal contents are often reproduced as previously published (though not always), but the cover may change completely with a new edition. A single instance where a publisher misattributed the translator of a work does not alter that.
 * What is also absent from the summary above is that most the discussion has been over our internal filename, which may or may not be reflected in the title we use for the user-accessible version of the work. We could upload a file to Commons as File:Fred.dvju, use Index:Fred.djvu locally, create Page:Fred.djvu, and still title that work Axioms Outlined by Artistotle. Our internal filename and public work title do not have to match, nor do they even have to resemble each other. Frequently, they do not. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:03, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The seventh item in Hrishikes' list is the question I wanted to ask, but was unsure of how to ask it.
 * Other details in this specific case include:
 * This was one of the early works introducing general relativity. Spacetime as a single concept was not well-known then, so "space [and] time and gravitation" (the interpretation with the comma in place) would make sense.
 * The title page plainly does not include the comma.
 * The cover on our scan (from IA) has no text at all.
 * The second detail is the reason I concurred enough with EncycloPetey to make the move the first time.
 * The title is also set in all uppercase, so I could believe that the typographic convention of the time was to omit commas on title pages, even when the logical title includes them. EncycloPetey also pointed out that the filename used for proofreading and the title we use in mainspace need not actually be related, so while this question need not stall proofreading if we can all agree to just run with what we have, we will need an answer when it is time to publish this work in mainspace. Pathore (talk) 05:37, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * About the typographic convention of omitting commas on title page: this may be true as it is also omitted on the title page of Index:The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State.djvu. Hrishikes (talk) 13:01, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

New to working over here on WS, but I've done a first run on a few pages of this. The OCR is quite good, so it's pretty quick to do, it would be nice if someone who knows more about the templates here would do the TOC (I'm a bit clueless about how to make it work). Revent (talk) 19:21, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Poking at people who expressed interest... I have done the first run-though of the entire work (including some huge chunks of TeX)... it's ready for validation (probably with some formatting cleanup) and transclusion. As I commented on IRC, it really needs a bit of annotation in some places, simply because of the historical context... as a specific example, he refers to 'spiral nebulae' that are now known to be other galaxies... at the time, it was thought that the Milky Way spanned the entire universe, and that other galaxies were simply distant nebulae in the Milky Way. Also, he talks about the number of planets, but Pluto was unknown at the time, and so what he wrote could be a bit confusing. Really, I think what needs 'annotated' would be a matter of a read-through by 'non-physics non-math' people, with pokes about what seems strange. His arguments were never 'wrong', even from a modern perspective, they just could use a bit of context in places. Revent (talk) 03:12, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * When it comes to annotations, I'd recommend Wikibooks, especially if those annotations are long or involved or likely to change with new insights or if they could be enhanced by photos and video, etc. I'll be happy to poke around some validation. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:23, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, it seems that Space Time and Gravitation from Author:Arthur Stanley Eddington is a redlink. Is this a deliberate choice? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:25, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I haven't attempted to transclude it yet, still new over here. I'll do so, but need to read the instructions a bit first. As far as annotations, I didn't mean anything extensive, just short notes where his 'terminology' would differ from what a modern reader would understand (like that 'spiral nebulae' refers to 'spiral galaxies', and that he didn't know they were external to the Milky Way... the book predates that discovery). Revent (talk) 03:49, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I made an attempt at transcluding it, though it might well be broken... the entire work is one page, which I don't think is correct.... feel free to fix it and hand me a clue. :) Revent (talk) 04:04, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I think I have it done correctly now (a page per each chapter, etc) at Space_Time_and_Gravitation. Feel free to fix it. Revent (talk) 07:43, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * We still have the issue of what the title actually is, specifically whether or not there should be a comma after "Space". See the above discussion, since this is the point where we can't put the decision off any longer. Pathore (talk) 21:02, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * (again pinging people, sorry for the late response) Thoughout the work, the term is given as space-time, with a hyphen. I would suspect that the 'canonical' title would actually be "Space-Time and Gravitation", at least in the author's intent, though the actual title page and catalog entries seem to differ. Revent (talk) 05:46, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * So it does. Now we have three choices. Since the work uses "space-time" in the text, and the title page clearly has "space time", I suggest leaving it at "Space Time and Gravitation", possibly creating redirects from "Space, Time and Gravitation" and "Space-Time and Gravitation". Pathore (talk) 21:06, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I also think that would be the best answer, with those redirects. Revent (talk) 22:30, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I also agree that sounds like the best solution. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:53, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Should complete newspapers be uploaded when only 1 or 2 articles are significant?
I've been adding some articles from early 20th century scholars concerning evolution and religion (see Evolution and Theological Belief and The Theory of Evolution as an Aid to Faith in God and Belief in the Resurrection) that are historically significant (see e.g. ), yet that were originally published in a university student newspaper which contains (at least in my opinion) large amounts of trivial entries like local interest stories, jokes, ads, and general campus gossip (see for instance here) which I have no intention of ever transcribing, although some might conceivably have some future value. I intend to add more articles, and while so far I've been only uploading the relevant pages, I'm wondering if it is worthwhile to upload entire editions of the paper, as I believe I read somewhere that full sources are preferred to excerpts. I'd prefer to not obscure the titles by e.g. retitling them all The White and Blue/Evolution and Theological Belief, and it seems from viewing Category:Newspaper articles that there is no agreement on prefacing articles with the Newspaper name. Any best practices or advice welcome. -Animalparty (talk) 19:47, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The Index should be the complete issue of the edition. Then just work on the sections of current interest. The other parts will be got to eventually. In terms of titling, redirects are cheap. I suggest using the full sub-paged title (e.g. The White and Blue Vol. xiv No. 12/Evolution and Theological Belief) as the transclusion point and setting up a redirect from the non-prefixed title. I'm pretty sure that there are other articles with Evolution and Theological Belief as the title out there, so when they are added the redirect can become a disambiguation page without the trouble of moving the transcluded articles at that point. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:13, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

what happens when index file is changed?
A hypothetical but realistic question: what are the guidelines or protocol for changes to source djvu or PDFs on Commons? Say for instance a document is missing a page or two (as I've encountered on some Google Books PDFs), and/or contains missing images or incorrectly ordered pages, or if I just want to upload the same file with all "digitized by X" watermarks removed? If such a file is indexed, and then overwritten by a new, better version, what happens? Does a new index need creation? Must the new file include the same number of pages? Similarly, what's the procedure for "Frankenstein" articles, that for instance draw from 2 or more different sources (e.g. a djvu missing a cover image and title page supplemented with a cover .jpg and single page.)? Animalparty (talk) 22:06, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Rule 1: for a new Index always check the file for missing images or incorrectly ordered pages before starting proofreading.
 * In case an old Index, if you realize something is wrong, fix the file by inserting/removing the missing pages, newly upload the source file, adjust the pagelist and move the Page:yyy.djvu/n pages as needed. If they are many, ask for a bot request, specifying your needs. See e.g. Bot_requests/Archives/2014. No new Index pages needed, but transclusions in Main ns and all links affected by the move need to be updated.
 * If you just want to upload the same file with all "digitized by X" watermarks removed, just upload the new file. But make sure number and position of the pages is unchanged.
 * Hope it clarifies a bit.--Mpaa (talk) 22:26, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

How can this page be re-created ?
I was just editing or creating this page and received the response below:

The revision #0 of the page named "Page:History of the Press in Western New York (1847).djvu/35" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted. Details can be found in the deletion log."

I don't see anything in the deletion log. Perhaps I clicked on the wrong item. How can this page be re-created ? Thanks

Robin2014 (talk) 16:40, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I can't see any problems now and can open the page, which I see you were able to save before you posted here. If you're still having problems, I suggest clearing your cache. Doing so often solves this sort of database niggle. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:10, 27 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Excellent ! Thanks. Robin2014 (talk) 20:04, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Images needed
Hi, I'm almost finished proofreading this book, but adding the missing images is beyond my capabilities. Can someone lend me a hand? Thanks in advance. Xaviersc (talk) 18:09, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I should be able to do that. Give me a few minutes... --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:48, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! Xaviersc (talk) 18:51, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

✅ --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:27, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Stacked images
I'm using templates (mostly), but where closely-spaced images are aligned on one side of a page, these are not transcluding at all well, being shifted to the right of the previous image and leaving boxes of blank space. See Researches in the Central Portion of the Usumatsintla Valley/Pethá - any suggestions on improving the appearance of this chapter would be much appreciated. Many thanks, Simon Burchell (talk) 23:36, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm seeing the shifts you describe, but not the space. When I hit this problem, I tend to ignore the original layout and see if I can come up with something better when transcluded. One of the things I would do with this example is reduce the size of Fig 11. It's longer than the screen on my laptop. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:51, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for replying. I've reduced the image size, and juggled the other images, and it's looking much better now - at least on my laptop screen. All the best, Simon Burchell (talk) 10:56, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Anthypophora (and Relatives)
Can I create this page? (Ремонт macbook) I have created it as a txt file but have not yet submitted it to Wikisource. (It is also a referenced here) —User 000 name 08:00, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Is it a Public Domain source? I've tried the links you give, but they're dead. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:22, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Author:Horatio Gordon Hutchinson and Author:Horace Hutchinson
might well be the same person, but the information given is disjoint. Can anybody confirm that the expert in Golf and the author of "A friend of Nelson" are identical? -- Gymel (talk) 21:27, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, they're the same. I've merged their author pages and data items. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:19, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

US copyright for non US works, some questions
Hi to all!

Sorry for my not very well Engilsh, but maybe somebody can help me providing with information on US copyright laws:

There is one unclear for me point on applying US copyright and copyright terms to non-US literary works (more precisely — to Russian / Soviet works), concerning URAA's restoration of copyrights for foreign works. The point is:

Let's suppose that we examine copyrights of some literary work which falls under conditions: 1) the work was first published out of the US; and 2) the work has never been published in the US (so it was not published in the US during 30-day period following the publication date, as well); and 3) the work was still under copyright in its home country as of the URAA date (1/1/1996 in the case of Russia, and many other countries); and finally 4) It was published in its source country without copyright notice, and the publication was in the period when such notice was required in the US to establish the copyright

The question is: did this work fall under US copyright because of copyright restoration according URAA? And if yes — what term is applied for US copyright protection? As I've understood, the missing copyright notice does not prevent the copyright restoration, and at any case, any restored work is granted copyright protection despite missing US copyright notice and/or US copyright renewal (even if such renewal was required in the case of any US work). Am I right? Or I am wrong, and missing copyright notice makes obtaining US copyright to fail, and so far — the work is PD in US now? (and we can freely use it in the Wikimedia projects?)

Also please help to figure out copyright issues for following two cases:
 * 1) Some Soviet author published his work at 1931 year, the work was published without copyright notice. Years passed, and the author died in the USSR in the autumn of 1941 year. According to the Russian Civil Code, this work is under Russian copyright until 2015 year (inclusive), and enters PD in the 2016 year. The work was under Russian copyright on the URAA date 1/1/1996. The work has never been published (and has never been registered copyright) in the US, and so it has never got any copyright renewal. The questions: a) is this work under copyright protection in the US? — and if yes — b) what is term of the protection, what length does it have?
 * 2) Some Soviet author died at 1931. Some work of this author was firstly published only in the 1944 year (PMA). According to the Russian Civil Code, this work was under Russian copyright until 2014 year (inclusive), and entered PD this (2015) year. The following details are the same as in the previous case: the work was under RF copyright on 1/1/1996; in has never been published and never been registered copyright in the US. The questions are the same: a) is this work under copyright protection in the US? — and if yes — b) what is term of the protection, what length does it have? --Nigmont (talk) 20:28, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Seems like both will be 95 years after publication from your description. Reading material Cornell copyright — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:08, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! --Nigmont (talk) 18:14, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Just as a 'pedantic' note (that might be worth mentioning), the described works would have been in the public domain in the US 'pre-URAA' not due to a failure to comply with the formalities, but due to a 'lack of national eligibility' at the time of publication... the Soviet Union was not a party to any international copyright treaties until 1973 (when they joined the UCC), so purely 'Soviet' copyrights were not recognized under international law before that time. Revent (talk) 10:41, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry for too late reply.
 * Revent, it would be good if you were right (I might put to Wikisource many works if so), but I am afraid that you are wrong. I think that 'eligibility' of the country is determined as of current status of copyright treates established between the US and the country, but not as of date where the work was firstly published. So it does not matter whether the Soviet Union was eligible on the date of publishing, but it does really matter that the Russia (the legal successor of the Soviet Union) is definitely an eligible party for US as of current status.
 * Moreover, the URAA act clearly states that the lack of the national eligibility is one of the conditions for 'copyright restoration' of foreign works - see Title V, SEC. 514. RESTORED WORKS, paragraph "(h) DEFINITIONS.", subparagraph "(6) The term restored work means an original work of authorship that", and following: (C) is in the public domain in the United States due to ... (iii) lack of national eligibility;...
 * So it seems that the US copyright term for such works is 95 years, the same as for US works having copyright notice and renewal. --Nigmont (talk) 18:11, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I was not attempting to say that they are not possibly eligible for restoration under the URAA, what I was pointing out was that they actually would fall under the criteria you noted, "lack of national eligiblity", instead of the criteria "failure to comply with the formalities". For a work from a source nation that was not a 'treaty partner' at the time of publication, but later became an 'eligible country', the lack of compliance with the formalities is irrelevant.... a Soviet work from the 1930s or 1940s would not have have had it's copyright recognized in the United States, even if it was published with a copyright notice that met the requirements of various international treaties, because the Soviet Union was not a party to those treaties at the time. That the Soviet Union decades later joined the UCC would not have granted those works 'retroactive' recognition, only the much later passing of the URAA potentially did so. Revent (talk) 20:44, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * sorry for my mistake: I misunderstood your first comment here and wrongly assumed that you meant that those works should not be restored copyright in the US under URAA definitions. Now I understand that you really told some other things, thanks for your clarification now.
 * But nonetheless IMO you are not quite right when you said in your second reply: only the much later passing of the URAA potentially did so. I think that those works should be considered as not potentially but definitely restored with URAA (except cases when a work is a pre-1923 publication). At least, IMO, this point should be believed regarding the possibility of exposing those works to Wikisource which (similarly to all other Wikimedia projects) is more prone to 'copyright-paranoia' than to 'copyright-boldness'. So IMO these works should be believed as not in PD and so they may not be published on Wikisource on PD terms. See also link Status of the "rule of the shorter term" in the US (I found this in the multilingual Wikisource). --Nigmont (talk) 16:49, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, my use of the word 'potentially' was quite deliberate, in order to avoid making a (possibly controversial) assertion that the URAA applied to a specific work without looking at the details of that work.. URAA arguments are unfortunately common and heated on Commons. I do agree that, particularly for a work to be on Wikisource, it should have a copyright clearance that 'positively' establishes that it is PD (and not restored), rather that assuming that things are PD unless proven otherwise. The URAA should be interpreted to apply to 'classes' of works based on their age and origin, unless demonstrated otherwise, instead of assumed to not apply unless someone can argue that it does. Revent (talk) 10:13, 19 March 2015 (UTC)




 * In 1996, when URAA came into force, Russia had 50-year copyright term, or 54-year for authors who worked during the Great Patriotic War or participated in it, so works of authors who died before 1942 (worked during or participated in the war) or before 1946 (not worked and not participated) in it are in Public Domain in the US. The retroactive copyright term extension in Russia did not affect the copyright protection in the US. So in the both cases You listed the works are PD in the US, if in the second case the author was not posthumously rehabilitated after the work was published. In that case, the copyright term should be counted from the date of rehabilitation.


 * На 1996 год, когда URAA вступило в силу, в России срок защиты авторских прав составлял 50 лет (или 54 для авторов, работавших в период ВОВ или участвовавих в ней), следовательно, работы авторов, умерших до 1942 года (работавших/участвовавших в ВОВ) или до 1946 года (не работавших и не участвоваших) перешли в общественное достояние на территории США. То, что сроки в России были продлены на 20 лет ретроактивно, не затронуло статус произведений в США. Поэтому в обоих случаях произведения находятся в общественном достоянии в США, если во втором случае автор не был реабилитирован посмертно после публикации произведения — тогда срок защиты авторских прав следует считать с даты реабилитации автора.-- N o n e x y st (talk) 20:09, 10 April 2015 (UTC)


 * yes, you are quite right, thank you for reminding. Carl Lindberg has already explained this, but thanks to you whatever.
 * For purpose of avoiding confusing future readers of this topic, I should make such remarks. In in the cases 1 and 2 described at the start of this topic, I wrongly declared that those works were under Russian copyright on the URAA date 1/1/1996. Really, as Nonexyst described above (and as Carl Lindberg had described previously on the other page) these works were in PD in Russia on that date. To keep the cases to be actual and informative, I could make such changes to formulating of them:
 * 1-st case description should be corrected: the author died not in the 1941, but in the 1942 year (or later) and fought (or worked) for Soviet Union during the Great Patriotic War; or died in the 1946 year or later;
 * 2-nd case description should be corrected: the work was first published in the USSR not in the 1944 but in the 1946 year or later.
 * After these corrections, the cases would remain actual and the answers given by Billinghurst and Revent would remain correct and true (taking in account the clarifications which have been provided during discussion).
 * По-русски: Nonexyst, спасибо за напоминание! Хоть Карл Линдберг и объяснил уже это на другой странице, но всё равно спасибо, хотя бы потому, что данную тему нужно было уточнить, чтобы не вводить потом в заблуждение тех, кто будет её читать.
 * Остальное на русский переводить не буду — думаю что то, что я выше написал по английски, вы поймёте. :) И ещё раз спасибо! --Nigmont (talk) 15:48, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Update: the only thing where you are not right (sorry for I didn't noticed this while I did my first reply) is that the extension of copyright terms due the rehabilitation is not respected by US copyright laws — Carl explained this as well (see in his reply which I linked above). --Nigmont (talk) 18:53, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * It is true for rehabilitations occurred in 1996 and on, rehabilitations between 1946 and 1995 made the works protected by copyright at the time of the URAA date, so their copyrights were restored by URAA.-- N o n e x y st (talk) 19:01, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * as far as I know, the article(s) about rehabilitation came first with the 4-th part of the Russian Civil Code, this part was enacted on 18.12.2006 and didn't exist on the URAA date 1/1/1996. See Russian Federal Law 18.12.2006 № 231-ФЗ (in the Russian Wikisource). Do you know about older laws and articles about rehabilitation, which were enacted in Russia on the URAA date? --Nigmont (talk) 19:29, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * No, I did not know exact date when the law on rehabilitations came into force. Thanks for clarifications.-- N o n e x y st (talk) 19:39, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Important update. I am very sorry, but I was mistaken when I wrote that "the article(s) about rehabilitation didn't exist on the URAA date 1/1/1996". As I have known recently, and described in this edit, actually the point about rehabilitaion was already included in the Russian Federation law 09.07.1993 № 5351-1, article 27, which was in force on the URAA date for Russia. So the comment of Nonexyst posted on 19:01, 11 April 2015, is completely right, and the following comment made by me is misleading and wrong, sorry. --Nigmont (talk) 18:03, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Replacement of a wrong djvu page image?
This page has the right text but the wrong djvu image, which is the duplicate of This page. I just uploaded a .jpg copy of the correct page.. How does one go about removing the wrong page and inserting this? — Ineuw talk 01:21, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * This has happened before; the system is still caching all the "common" widths of the previous image for some reason. If you tick the image tab from the Page: namespace, the current & correct page image shows up (at its full width). Change that image to 1024px in the address field and the old image comes back. As far as I know - there is little we can do about except wait, keep checking back every so often & hope the caching catches up with the latest image sooner rather than later. Maybe  knows another way thru py or the api itself? -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:50, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I have found something interesting here. At [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=File:Popular_Science_Monthly_Volume_32.djvu&page=661 that page in the File: namespace], there is a list of "other resolutions", corresponding to 145, 290, 363, 464, and 619 pixels wide.  All are correct.  The [//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Popular_Science_Monthly_Volume_32.djvu/page661-1024px-Popular_Science_Monthly_Volume_32.djvu.jpg offending image] on Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 32.djvu/661 is 1024 pixels wide.  Could it be that the software has somehow "forgotten" that the 1024 pixel version is supposed to exist?  Pathore (talk) 03:48, 14 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you all. In fact I forgot about Mpaa telling me the same thing with another page which corrected itself. Sorry to have jumped. — Ineuw talk 05:12, 14 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Seems ok now. How about you? -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:17, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems to be fixed here. Pathore (talk) 02:33, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Cannot access wmflabs from the link on the index page
Cannot access wmflabs from the link Popular Science Monthly Volume 32 on the index page. — Ineuw talk 22:16, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Its probably something on their end (the Book2Scroll tool works for verification's sake). I wouldn't know where to begin to report something like this... anyone? -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:33, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Need help changing the title
I created an article for a poem by the Peruvian poet Cesar Vallejo but the title of the page doesn't have the right capitalization for English poem titles. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_black_heralds Can someone explain to me how to do this?
 * ✅. Wikipedia has a guide on how to do this. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:44, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't this be in the Translation namespace?— Mpaa (talk) 19:14, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Moved.— Mpaa (talk) 17:30, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Request to (Re-)OCR a page
This page has very poor OCR. Can someone kindly provide a better OCR? The page is bilingual: English and French. --Siddhant (talk) 04:33, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Manly Hall book.
Is it ok for me to add the remainder of Manly Hall's The Secret Teachings of all Ages to wikisource? Wikisource already has some of the chapters, but not most of them. PaulBustion88 (talk) 16:28, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

How would you create a table of contents for The Philosophical Review
I've had a go at proofreading Volume 12 because I wanted to read an article in it... Any ideas for formatting the table of contents? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 02:39, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The scans strongly resemble the layout used for the List of Illustrations in our current Proofread of the Month. Similar markup to what is used there should work well. Pathore (talk) 04:32, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That looks neat. Can you tell me where the help page for the markup is? like- float right and dtpl, dotend, djvupageoffset, and djvupage- so I can have an idea what I am doing? Zoeannl (talk) 07:57, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * See dotted TOC page listing and float right. Hrishikes (talk) 13:43, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The preview display has list of "templates used in this preview" below the edit box. Each template link there points to the documentation for that template. Pathore (talk) 21:15, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I looked and the templates weren't listed? Zoeannl (talk) 07:42, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The template list only appears in preview mode, not in plain edit mode. If you don't have the "show preview on first edit" preference checked, you might need to use the "show preview" button. If it's still not there (and isn't somewhere else on the page), then I don't know what preference you have different from my settings. Also, sorry about overlooking this earlier. Pathore (talk) 01:04, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Do I rearrange things for the index page so that the pages are listed in order? Zoeannl (talk) 07:57, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No, preserve the original order. The text should match the scan. Pathore (talk) 21:15, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I meant for the Volume Index page - as done for Popular Science Monthly? Zoeannl (talk) 07:42, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you are asking. If it was transcribed, it should match the scan. If you're referring to making a list of volumes, then those should be in numerical order, I think. If you mean the Table of Contents on the Index: page, then I don't actually know. I've always built the Index: TOC by transcluding text from the relevant Page:s, which would make it match the original order. This seems like less work right now (get both those pages and a TOC for the index at once) and a sorted TOC can always be made later, if needed. Pathore (talk) 05:22, 28 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The dotted TOC has been working very well, thanks, but I have a problem with articles that have 2 pages listed e.g. Laurie, S. S. 364, 590 Any suggestions? Zoeannl (talk) 07:42, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Try nowrap. Moondyne (talk) 08:11, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * @Zoeannl Will have to fix those 2 links after transclusion, they'll need to be hard linked using the "pagetext (3)" parameter.--Rochefoucauld (talk) 12:40, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Should I leave a marker like ? Which doesn't exist?? --Zoeannl (talk) 20:38, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * For 2 pages listed in a TOC line, the dotted TOC template is quite sufficient. See the list of illustrations at Researches on Irritability of Plants. Hrishikes (talk) 02:50, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * This is just what I need, but I can't figure out how it works.
 * Ah no.. They aren't links. To be left til transclusion.--Zoeannl (talk) 11:16, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I've [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page%3APhilosophical_Review_Volume_12.djvu%2F16&action=historysubmit&diff=5337822&oldid=5321741 fixed it]. The djvupage= and dvjupageoffset= parameters are for convenience in the common case. For multiple pages on one TOC entry, use the pagetext= parameter and the DJVU page link template. Pathore (talk) 01:18, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm getting Entry text because the article title includes 7+5=12 here. Quite beyond me. Help please. — Zoeannl (talk) 09:55, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Fixed. When need to put an '=' inside a template, you have to replace it with = for it to work. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:03, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the assistance. Everything is working well on the page namespace e.g. [Volume 12 Contents]. But when I transclude them for a table of contents, the page links don't work e.g. [Volume 12]. Any suggestions?--Zoeannl (talk) 08:06, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
 * That's an intentional feature of the templates used. I think that you are supposed to make the TOC items links to the pages where the text is transcluded.  As an example, "The Philosophy of Emerson" should be a link to The Philosophical Review/Volume 12/Articles/The Philosophy of Emerson, which should transclude text from DjVu pages 541 through 552.  If you aren't planning to transcribe that article, don't worry about it in particular; I just chose it as an example.  If there is a particular article you have in mind that is ready for transclusion, name it here and I (or someone) will put all these pieces I'm describing together as a worked example.
 * In case I misunderstand, would anyone around here know more and be willing to enlighten us both? Pathore (talk) 03:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * OK. I can do that, it makes sense for articles/chapters. But what about the sections like [Summary of Articles]? These can have 3 'summaries' to a page. I can make each one its own separate page, but as a reader I would want to be able to browse the whole section. The page link should then be to a page on the transcluded section? Zoeannl (talk) 11:09, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * For those, use labeled section transclusion. So the TOC would contain a link to The Philosophical Review/Volume 12/Summaries of Articles/Die Schilderung der Unterwelt in Platons Phaidon, for the first item on the page you mention.  That page would use the   tag with the   option to pull in just that summary from whichever pages actually contain it in the Page: namespace.  Again, if you have one of these proofread and ready for transclusion, mention it here and I (or someone) will put it together.  Also, you seem to be confused about link syntax in MediaWiki; the help page on Wikipedia may be helpful.  (You've been using external links to refer to pages within the wiki.)  Pathore (talk) 01:38, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes I am confused! and am very gradually learning by having a go myself as I find the help pages hopeless i.e. not helpful (I have looked...)-thanks for the offer to do it for me but I will mull over this while I proofread. If I have to go back and redo things, it's all part of the learning process. I've learnt an awful lot since starting to proofread Popular Science which was a fortunate place to start as Ineuw has things so well set up, I have high standards to aim for. I have tried to do section markers for Popular Science... I am working on a book for my first (easy) project-An Introduction to Ethics. Billinghurst has been adding links as he validates so I'm taking that in. I've transcluded the chapters; and have done as suggested for the Contents and am thinking about page links for the Index. I like the result in The Problems of Philosophy. --Zoeannl (talk) 00:07, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Another style may also be considered: compare the links at Page:Nil Durpan.djvu/232 and Nil Durpan/Appendix. Hrishikes (talk) 03:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * To be clear, do you propose having a single page The Philosophical Review/Volume 12/Summaries of Articles with all of the summaries in volume 12 transcluded to that one page? If so, yes, this is another style, but I am uncertain whether the summaries are mixed in amongst the full articles or on pages of their own.  If any pages contain both part of an article and part of an article summary, this style still requires labeled section transclusion to get the summaries out of the Page: namespace.
 * As such, putting section markers in the summaries in the Page: namespace is, at worst, not immediately useful, and cannot hurt, whether we transclude each summary to a page of its own or put all of them together on one page. Unless we know that no page contains both part of an article and part of a summary, I would suggest that all of the summaries should be marked for labeled section transclusion in the Page: namespace, even if we don't immediately use it.  Pathore (talk) 04:52, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I haven't come across any Summaries sharing a page with articles so that's OK. But the Volumes are actually a compilation of the year's issues so the other possibility is having each issue transcluded separately... I haven't any plan at all as I'm only starting to get an idea of what's involved. Thinking about it, we should probably follow the publishers' intent and use the table of contents as a guide except I do find it weird-as a reader, it is difficult to follow the flow of articles, especially as there is a lot of discussion over successive issues. I think I shall procrastinate for a while, there is still plenty of proofreading to do. As above: I am still getting my head around sections, but I'm fine with going through later and adding them. I looked at your examples and like the results but templates and code make my guts twist (literally). When I am feeling brave I may have a play and try to copy it but I really need a tutorial to understand it-I just want to consolidate my proofreading know-how first. No hurry. Thanks for the input. Cheers --Zoeannl (talk) 00:07, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I have not proposed any single page. As I understand (may be wrong, of course), TOC link, used in pagespace, displays separate functional links on pagespace and mainspace. Hrishikes (talk) 07:46, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Centering of tables
I've noticed while viewing some texts I've added on an android tablet in mobile mode that the tables I've added aren't centered. The contents here is an example. In the main namespace it is shown on the left on the mobile device. Is there a way to fix this?


 * The table on that page isn't centered, and only some of the rows are. To centre a table, the align="center" command needs to be on the first line. See the tables on Page:A Dictionary of Music and Musicians vol 2.djvu/613 for examples. That said, mobile mode does behave differently to desktop mode in some things, and this might be one of those. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:43, 4 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah I tried align="center" and nothing changed. I also had a look at other books and the problem exists there too so I guess it's an issue with mobile mode. I also notice images are also aligned to the left. Jpez (talk) 09:59, 4 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It looks like it's the mobile page that's having difficulties, as even on my labtop it isn't centered. --Rochefoucauld (talk) 15:06, 5 April 2015 (UTC)


 * You still have some options: style="margin:0 auto 0 auto;" and the less elegant enclosure. — Ineuw talk 21:39, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * PS. Sorry, forgot this one margin-right:auto; margin-left:auto; — Ineuw talk 21:41, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Nope, neither work, you can try messing around with it using the mobile link --Rochefoucauld (talk) 23:09, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * This is unquestionably a kludge and simply points to an issue with the global CSS but   works here. I leave it to others to apply the appropriate  58.166.69.222 23:47, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the mobile mode css does not automatically inherit the desktop view css files or settings -- be they site-wide or personal (for the most part that is). The Mobile front-end development people need to be consulted as to how to rectify this without stepping all over what they have planned. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:22, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I use (on the desktop) margin-right:auto; margin-left:auto; OR margin:0 auto 0 auto; to successfully center tables. — Ineuw talk 13:25, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Help me, please
Dear project members, I ask You to help properly execute translations of articles from scientific journals into English (On Individual protective means for workers' respiratory organs (review of literature)), and other. Perhaps the best way to help me is to give me (very inexperienced project member) a reference to a similar and well-documented translation of a document so I can use it as an example. Thank You. AlexChirkin (talk) 12:20, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * It looks reasonably good to me, albeit with a few errors here and there, but your English is certainly better than my Russian. Unfortunately, I suspect that we don't have very many translators in our community and I don't know of any examples to point out for you.  I'll watch the page that you linked; feel free to ask questions either on its talk page or here.  Pathore (talk) 02:30, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
 * After looking around a bit more, I found a proposed guideline for translations. It seems that we have a Translations: namespace, for works translated on Wikisource.  Are these translations published elsewhere or are the translations original to Wikisource?  Pathore (talk) 02:47, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) I apologize for my bad English, and will try to fix inaccurately translated and poorly translated sections in the documents. 2) Translations of these articles have never been published - it is (Wikisource translations) 3) Yes, when meeting with the English Wikisource, I immediately noticed (Translations: namespace), but I didn't find anything similar to these articles (for use it as a sample), and don't know what I should do. There is a standard "header" //Translation_header// in translated documents. The Russian texts are accompanied by scanned images of the relevant pages (example: О средствах индивидуальной защиты органов дыхания работающих -- On Individual protective means for workers' respiratory organs (review of literature)). If the translated document is in the English Wikisource, the link to the original text must link the translation and the text that accompanied scanned pages, or I can link the translation with the original text, which (itself) is not accompanied by scanned pages (but which has a reference to the text, accompanied by a scan)? Sorry, but I work in Wikisource little, and don't have good mental abilities. So the project participants in the Russian Wikisource is not very clearly explained to me, how am I supposed to act correctly. Thank You very much AlexChirkin (talk) 15:18, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, these pages should be in the Translation: namespace, so I have moved them. In the process of checking links, I found that there are apparently four such articles so far.  Can you tell me what order these should go in so I only have to change the next/previous links once?  The four articles I have found are:
 * Translation:On individual means for respiratory organs protection against dust
 * Translation:On Individual protective means for workers' respiratory organs (review of literature)
 * Translation:Overview of Industrial Testing Outcome of Respiratory Organs Personal Protection Equipment
 * Translation:Reducing the harmful effects of polluted air at workplaces using respiratory PPE
 * I will fix the next/previous links to put them in the right order if you tell me what that order is. Pathore (talk) 23:00, 23 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Considering scans, does the Russian Wikisource use the Proofreadpage Page: and Index: namespaces? A quick glance seems to imply that those are not used there.  Pathore (talk) 23:00, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi there from the Russian Wikisource. Let me help with the technical points. ;-) Yes, ru wikisource uses proofread extension, but these articles are not accompanied with the scans. Is it absolutely necessary by local rules to add the scans and use the indexes and proofread pages for this kind of articles (articles written by a living author, translations from other languages)? Regards, Hinote (talk) 16:22, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think that it is absolutely needed (someone else can correct me if I'm wrong), but AlexChirkin said that the "Russian texts are accompanied by scanned images of the relevant pages" which I initially thought was an error, because the actual text that he used as an example isn't transcluded. (Even if the &lt;pages&gt; tag is localized, the difference between a short bit of transclusion markup and a long run of full text is obvious.)  Since I can't read Cyrillic, I didn't know that he had given an Index: link until I just now checked it.  If the scans really are there, just not linked, it would be helpful if we could have links from English Wikisource translations to Russian Wikisource texts to the original Russian scans.  Does the Russian Wikisource have a similar emphasis on verifiability to what we have here on the English Wikisource or is this a more minor issue on ru wikisource?  Pathore (talk) 19:53, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Dear participants, forgive me for the stupidity and incompetence - perhaps I've confused You both. When I first met with Wikisource (Russian), I knew nothing about the requirements to accompany posted text with scanned images of the published text, and just did those articles without the scanned pages. Then I was told about scans. As a result, there are two copies of each document in the Russian Wikisource - the original (without scanned pages), and late (with scans). And in the template for texts in Russian Wikisource there is a point (|ИСТОЧНИК=), where the text without scans can be associated with the text with the scans. Now all articles (without scans) in their header have link to their duplicate (with the scans). Specifically:
 * the first article (2011): О средствах индивидуальной защиты органов дыхания от пыли ru without scans ru with scans en translation - Translation:On individual means for respiratory organs protection against dust;
 * second article О средствах индивидуальной защиты органов дыхания работающих (обзор литературы) (April 2013) ru without scans ru with scans en translation - Translation:On Individual protective means for workers' respiratory organs (review of literature);
 * third article (кeport on the conference) (October 2013) Снижение вредного воздействия загрязнённого воздуха на рабочих с помощью СИЗ органов дыхания ru without scans ru with scans en translation - Translation:Reducing the harmful effects of polluted air at workplaces using respiratory PPE;
 * fourth article Обзор результатов производственных испытаний средств индивидуальной защиты органов дыхания (СИЗОД) (2014) ru without scans ru with scans en translation - Translation:Overview of Industrial Testing Outcome of Respiratory Organs Personal Protection Equipment.
 * Unfortunately, the third article can create problems. It was published, but not completely - only abstracts. There are two versions of the report in Russian Wikisource - theses (with scans), and the full report, including all illustrations (illustrations not published on paper, only on the website of the research Institute of occupational Medicine). Maybe I should change the translation of the report, because now I posted on the English Wikipedia for the full text of the report with illustrations. 195.74.82.209 11:34, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The next/previous links match the order you've given; good, nothing to fix there. I don't think the third article will create problems&mdash;it was published, although not on paper.  The English Wikisource inclusion policy specifically allows peer reviewed research.  Provided that the Russian version passed some kind of scholarly peer review, the full text with illustrations should be perfectly acceptable here.
 * One last detail: it isn't "stupidity and incompetence"&mdash;the proper term in English is "ignorance", and all of us started out that way.  Ignorance is temporary unless you give up; you will learn if are persistent.  Pathore (talk) 01:07, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank You very much! AlexChirkin (talk) 13:15, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Table of content with dotted listing
For fun, I was trying to recreate this Table of Contents. Here is my attempt: my sandbox. Clearly, I'm getting the number of dots wrong. How can I get that correct? I was looking at documentation for Template:Dotted TOC page listing, and I think I need a parameter which can tell how much gap I want to be after the entryname. Any ideas? And btw, how do I use the  parameter? Do I write a percentage, like "75%" or something else? Feel free to edit my sandbox. --Siddhant (talk) 16:54, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
 * What effect would you like to achieve? For example: if you specify  then "Preliminary remarks" won't fit and would be forced to split over two lines. Alternately   (yes, the arithmetic does not really work) would force entries to take up as much width as possible, with the (potential) result that on narrow displays the entry might touch the page number as there will be nowhere to draw even one "&bull;." If you really want an uncloseable gap (i.e. within which "&bull;"s are not permitted to appear) after a given entry just add gap but note the following couple of points as well:  The template allocates "dots" to fit in the available space so is the wrong approach to use if you want an exact number of dots to appear (changing screen width or font-size can result in the number appearing changing.)  Or are you hoping to get all the dot-leaders to start at the same point irrespective of the relative entry lengths? If either of the last two then perhaps making the whole page a table might be the correct way to proceed. AuFCL (talk) 23:01, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Too much effort for too little gain. Anyway, thanks! And if the  parameter is really broken, then I hope someone can add a note to the template documentation. --Siddhant (talk) 01:26, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Handwritten footnote
Need guidance about what to do with the handwritten footnote on this page. Firstly, the work is an Indian act and the footnote seems essential, as it specifies the date from which the act came into force. Secondly, the file was taken from the central digital repository for Indian acts: the site of the law ministry. So this version of the file can be deemed as the version authorised by the Indian government. Thirdly, keeping a handwritten note on a printed work seems to be against the convention here. So what to do in this case? Does the third point override the first two? Hrishikes (talk) 02:07, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Nonsense; Authorized by who? The Official Indian Internet Fairy Bunny? Where's the official stamp of said online mystical beast? And it was initialed by ? witnessed by ....? Sarcasm aside -- typically such defacement or alteration would technically invalidate that particular copy of that particular document/work in most "legal settings" (i.e. no longer considered an official print & would no longer qualify as prima facie evidence if submitted). I would put "improper yet useful" information such as that in the notes field of main space header if anywhere at all. Regardless, a formalized footnote should not appear in the final mainspace presentation of the work IMHO. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:34, 24 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Why so heated up? Is the air conditioner not working at your place? I am not obsessed about the footnote and it is easily removable. Hrishikes (talk) 02:46, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry . Sometimes I think I am funny or something but it doesn't always "translate" as intended in such forums - that was just my latest example. The point I had hoped to stress originally was when it comes to government works and similiar, if something is not part the official publication or printing, then it is encyclopedic at best (& would be a tidbit for Wikipedia - not here); suspect at worst (altered; forgery, etc.) but either way, it should not appear in the final mainspace presentation of the transcluded content itself. I know its a harmless effective date in this case but it could still be used as some precedent by someone else with other than "best intentions" so best not to take the chance at all. Plus there are a good number of ways other than providing the same info without making it appear as a proper footnote. -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:00, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

I did recognize your humour and replied in the same vein. Anyway, I have removed the footnote and shall insert info at mainspace notes if I can separately verify the standing order mentioned in the footnote. I hope this will take care of your AC!!! Hrishikes (talk) 04:03, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Several DjVu source files affected by Page namespace crash
Index:Popular Science Monthly Volume 20.djvu

Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 20.djvu/648

There is something wrong with this volume. I also crashed the page below twice but then managed to saved it.

MYSQL server crash? Please see pasted message

I was editing this page when I got this error.

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Popular_Science_Monthly_Volume_20.djvu/119&action=edit

Database error

A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.

Function: ForeignDBFile::loadExtraFromDB Error: 2013 Lost connection to MySQL server during query (10.64.48.25)

— Ineuw talk 05:03, 24 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It seems the djvu images are missing from the page: ns of every volume. What have I done?— Ineuw talk 05:59, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is just PSM going thru Random transcription in the nav. menu shows every 2nd or 3rd djvu Index: with an invalid cover image thumbnail. The Page:s under them don't have thumbnails either. Will start to look around but its late; maybe check if it is just en then file Phab. bug cause its happening on French & German WS too. -- George Orwell III (talk) 06:35, 24 April 2015 (UTC)


 * This is occurring in Sanskrit Wikisource but not in Bengali and multilingual. Is the matter connected with the software version used at proofread pages? Hrishikes (talk) 07:53, 24 April 2015 (UTC)


 * It seems to be corrected. My thanks to the concierge, whoever it was.— Ineuw talk 16:47, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

I doubt its "over" - see the bug report. It appears they're going to disable the XML generation in the DjVu.php file as a response. -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:19, 26 April 2015 (UTC)


 * If I read the comments correctly, this will only affect generating thumbnails, where the XML was apparently useless (or at least unused) but was retrieved from the database anyway. Apparently, search engine crawls were overloading the database servers.  Based on previous digging I've done related to past DjVu issues, I expect minor bugs to crop up relating to DjVu files where the pages have different sizes.  I would not be surprised if the bugs in question are longstanding rather than new.    In other words, I don't expect regressions from this.  Pathore (talk) 03:24, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The XML is used by DjVuImage.php if I'm not mistaken. The point is; any chance for a robust text-layer that can be extracted, corrected and then [re]inserted in the future feels further away than ever with this removal. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:12, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The XML may be used in DjVuImage, but the particular bit of code removed in this patch fetches the XML metadata into a local variable, throws an exception if fetching the metadata fails, then proceeds to completely ignore the XML metadata that it had just retrieved from the database. Unless either getMetadata or normaliseParams has completely insane side effects, the removed code did nothing at all except waste database resources.  Pathore (talk) 03:46, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Still, history has made me jaded and -- even though I have no reason not to believe your assessment here -- I can't expect any real good will come of this in the long run. I do understand, however, that the patch will stop the immediate problem from occurring again. -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:04, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Small letter a with diaresis and accent
See bottom of Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 68.djvu/508. Is there such a character I can map? I've scanned BabelMap but no joy. Moondyne (talk) 09:33, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
 * ́̈᷁a (found it in an Arial font on Word). However, it doesn't always display well. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:54, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


 * ä́ Is this what you want? Available here. ä&#x00B4; will also do. Hrishikes (talk) 14:33, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks ä́ lot guys. Moondyne (talk) 15:03, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I just found this List of Latin-script letters which is useful. Moondyne (talk) 16:08, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I find it interesting how some of them have their own wikipage.--Rochefoucauld (talk) 00:17, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * To create the character with BabelMap, select from the list ä with the diaeresis and then position the cursor on the right of the character and select U+0301 COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT. Any character and combination can be made with BabelMap.— Ineuw talk 15:26, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

DjVu doesnt upload to Commons
Hi, all!

I don't understand why but the following two files (from IA) refuse to be uploaded to Commons; all I get is "bad token" message.
 * Once a Week Volume 7
 * Once a Week Volume 8.

Any help is greatly appreciated. I have already prepared nice and cozy place for them here under Once a Week umbrella:
 * , June-December 1862.
 * , December 1862-June 1863.

Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 05:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC).


 * I've just tried Volume 7 via the IA Upload Bot, but I got the message that the file is too big. As the Volume 8 file is another 5 Mb larger, I won't try it. My bandwidth isn't strong enough to cope with downloading and then uploading. Hopefully, someone with better bandwidth will be able to assist. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:06, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you for trying! There is na IA upload bot? I was always wasting my band on download/uploading:( Captain Nemo (talk) 07:57, 27 April 2015 (UTC).


 * There's a link to it at the bottom of User:Beeswaxcandle/Works. Copy it to somewhere in your user-space, so that it knows who you are. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:29, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I think I had the same problem. It seems to be a problem with the upload wizard and djvu files. If you were using the upload wizard try this link instead to upload. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload Jpez (talk) 14:26, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The files appear to be too large for the ia-upload tool to handle, giving various errors, so I used the metadata the upload tool suggested and uploaded them as Jpez suggested. I have also made the Index: pages.  The scan for volume 7 is missing pages 629 and 630.  A better scan is needed.  The scan for volume 8 appears OK, though.  Pathore (talk) 19:28, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Let me know if you need anything else to be uploaded - or anyone else who is having problems with uploading. I have the bandwidth and I always download from IA and upload to the commons, having the same problems constantly, so I just gave up after messaging the programmers and never got a response. — Ineuw talk 21:35, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, folks, for the help! I will be proofreading serialized The Notting Hill Mystery (which is, a lot critics claim, the first English language detective novel). Vheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 00:15, 28 April 2015 (UTC).


 * I suggest proofreading the parts from Volume 8 first because the Volume 7 scan is missing two pages. This will cause unnecessary work if you start proofreading Volume 7 now, since part of The Notting Hill Mystery appears after the missing pages and any pages you proofread after the gap will have to be moved when the DjVu file is fixed.
 * To others: is it okay if I simply insert two blank pages and upload a new version of the file? Pathore (talk) 01:11, 28 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. In volume 7 I just marked the first installment that comes befor missing pages. Volume 8, unfortunately, seems to be missing text layer. Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 01:14, 28 April 2015 (UTC).
 * The missing-text MediaWiki bug strikes again&mdash;that DjVu file has a text layer that MediaWiki isn't recognizing. It is possible to copy-and-paste the text from , if you have the DjVuLibre tools installed.  Pathore (talk) 01:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you want the text layer uploaded for the whole Volume 8? I can take a look at that.— Mpaa (talk) 19:09, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, if possible, the text layer for the whole Volume would be great. Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 22:26, 29 April 2015 (UTC).
 * Done.— Mpaa (talk) 10:02, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I have gone ahead and uploaded the new DjVu file with two blank pages inserted. Unless I'm badly mistaken, this means that proofreading of volume 7 can now begin, except, of course, for the missing pages themselves.  Pathore (talk) 03:18, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Add all subpages to your watchlist
Is there a way to automatically add all the subpages of a page to your watchlist whether they be created or uncreated? For example if I add an Index I would like to be notified if any changes are made to the Index's pages. Is this possible without having to manually add each page to your watchlist? Jpez (talk) 10:43, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
 * You might try to add pages with Special:EditWatchlist/raw. It would require that you manually generate the list (in linux: for i in {1..5}; do echo "Page:xxx/$i"; done > out.txt).— Mpaa (talk) 10:51, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Or you might want to try directly Special:ApiSandbox, using as generator the list of pages that leave the Index, only in the Page ns (I'm not sure it is possible, should play with it a little).— Mpaa (talk) 11:09, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks Mpaa. I used your the first suggestion and made a list for one of the indexes I'm working on. I understood nothing of the second suggestion. I'm not too good with compooters, I'm amazed I even made the first suggestion to work. :) Jpez (talk) 11:17, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Image or template for the "printer's fist" ?
Has anyone access to an image or template for the "printer's fist" ? This short book was published in 1847 and has about 10 places that use the printer's fist - pointing right or reversed and pointing left. In proofreading I typed [fist] until I find a better way. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_the_Press_in_Western_New_York Robin2014 (talk) 17:45, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Are you looking for Index (typography)? There are unicode symbols for them:


 * U+261A ☚ black left pointing index
 * U+261B ☛ black right pointing index
 * U+261C ☜ white left pointing index
 * U+261D ☝ white up pointing index
 * U+261E ☞ white right pointing index
 * U+261F ☟ white down pointing index


 * —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:19, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you for this help. I see you updated 2 pages.  I'll try to do the other pages tomorrow.  The only missing one seems to be when it was flipped into a reverse topside down and pointing left.  I'm happy to live with what you found. :))
 * Robin2014 (talk) 21:49, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Tried a search at http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/search.htm ? test page — billinghurst  sDrewth  08:19, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

hyphenated word start when the word contains a template
At Page:Thoughts_on_the_Education_of_Daughters.djvu/29 I'm using the hws template on a word containing a long s. When I insert the template inside the hws template, the html breaks. Thanks in advance for any help getting this to work. MartinPoulter (talk) 11:46, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

illi nes just wrapping the hyphenation component from the previous page in the tag so it doesn't display in the transcription, though will show when we transclude. — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:53, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Well spotted. Some templates are just too "clever" for their own good. Note for future: if anyone tries to address this issue in the template itself [maybe a genuine separate title or popup parameter; or maybe even parameter content filtering (yuck)?], remember all of hyphenated word end, linkable phrase start and linkable phrase end will have the exactly the same issues as well. AuFCL (talk) 23:14, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Or just not bother with the template and just stick the hyphenated text in the footer. The 'start' template is an artefact of an early time when footers were not well-functioning and really serves little purpose these days, cf. the close template which has functionality. — billinghurst  sDrewth  10:10, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Technically @Billinghurst is correct but culturally insensitive. Nobody likes to see the magic trampled upon, and this suggestion is completely at odds with the Help recommendations. However nominally you're the boss&hellip; AuFCL (talk) 11:13, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks all. I didn't realise there was this asymmetry between the templates. So I can ignore the hws template, but I still have the problem that the next page, Page:Thoughts_on_the_Education_of_Daughters.djvu/30, starts with "detly", the second part of the hyphenated word "modetly". The hwe template has the same problem, so what do you recommend? Avoid templates and just move the whole word to the top of the second page? MartinPoulter (talk) 12:12, 4 May 2015 (UTC) Now both pages are fixed. Cheers, MartinPoulter (talk) 12:27, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * That was a reflection AuFCL, not a direction; we have no boss, just contributors and opinions. I am aware of the culture which is why I haven't amended the help page. It is a kludge, though one that may have nice balance, though something of its time, and adds some prettiness to the Page: ns though at this point of time no demonstrated value to the main namespace. it is a display thing, in circumstances where we have problems like that don't be afraid to have judicious use of &lt;includeonly> tags as ultimately that is what it does, eg. on the second page have

Looking for a better font family / style
THIS HEADER uses the Pfos title template with the Blackletter font where the letter "S" looks more like a "G". Does anyone know of a similar free font, more like the original print (Old English)? — Ineuw talk 01:41, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * What's the purpose of replicating the fraktur style font here? Is it integral to the work, or is it just a "pretty"? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:31, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I guess 'just pretty', or just to be closer to the original - Please remember that I am only imitating other editors, and we all have done so at one time or another.


 * Can't comment on his motivations but maybe Ineuw was yearning for the 'old' Blackletter font family (I think it was "Cloister Black" or maybe that was a local "fix" for "Fraktur"?) which was ditched way back in the never-never for the current 'free licence' UnifrakturMaguntia? As best I recall this situation dates back to at least January last year. That discussion suggests Google fonts was somehow involved. AuFCL (talk) 05:43, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * @ Beeswaxcandle, pretty is good. I too like some of the old fonts instead of the bland text we use here. It is somewhat like having an illustrated book instead of a non-illustrated book. Art is beautiful to the eye of the beholder. —Maury (talk) 06:23, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * UnifrakturMaguntia is the first and only server-side blackletter/fraktur font on Wikisource. The previous system suggested a font family on the user-side but that depended on the user having such a font available (the back-up option was bold text in the normal font).  If an additional free font can be found, it should be possible to add it to the system in the same way UnifrakturMaguntia is supported, but it needs to be free in the same way everything else here is free (ie. open, distributable, modifiable etc, not just "costs nothing"). In UnifrakturMaguntia's case it was with the SIL Open Font License (OFL). I don't know that much about fonts or the licensing thereof and I couldn't find much via Google; although the PiratePower on openfontlibrary.org seems OK at a quick glance. NB: Even if an acceptable alternative font can be found, it might take a while to be implemented; this could be a lot of work for just one glyph in one work. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 11:33, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * AuFCL and Maury got it right, and thanks to AdamBMorgan for clarifying what and how fonts are implemented. — Ineuw talk 12:01, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I've been looking at the original Sourceforge page and it does have an option for a alternative modern-S glyph. In raw CSS, it could be implemented with this:   which gives <span style="font-family:'UnifrakturMaguntia'; font-feature-settings:'cv08'; -moz-font-feature-settings:'cv08'; -webkit-font-feature-settings:'cv08'; -ms-font-feature-settings:'cv08';">Fragments of Science .  I don't think this is standard CSS (presumably the reason for the repetition with prefixes), nor compatible with all web browsers, but it should work on most. I am not sure how, or if, this could be done with the Blackletter and ULS templates at the moment but the feature is at least available. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 12:16, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * , Thanks for your help. I checked the four different browsers in Windows 7 (IE11, Chrome, Opera and FF.) and it works with all. — Ineuw talk 13:33, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I haven't touched Pfos but I've made changes to both Blackletter and ULS to alter the default appearance of "S" and "k". This affects all instances of the template across Wikisource but I think this was a longstanding complaint anyway.  (If this has caused a problem for anyone, please just revert my recent edits to both templates.) With Pfos, the   element might be conflicting with this function in some way. For example:   =, but   =  . - AdamBMorgan (talk) 18:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, it looks great. In addition, thanks for introducing me to ULS. Just goes to show you how little I know about the availble templates.— Ineuw talk 19:29, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Calligraphic font
Need some guidance about what font to use in Index:The Constitution of India (Original Calligraphed and Illuminated Version).djvu. The work is handwritten, so a suitable font would be nice. Initially I tried Edwardian Script ITC, with ULS template, which looked nice in my laptop. Then I checked with other devices and found font unsupported, so reverted the uls thing. Can anyone suggest a font compatible across browsers and devices, at least the modern ones? There is another problem. The work has illustrations on almost every page, done by India's master artists. Inline drawings are no problem, but the pages have intricately illustrated frames. If these frames are kept (I have kept them for now), the pages cannot combine on transclusion. Will such non-combination due to framed pages be OK? Hrishikes (talk) 02:13, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * This is only an adjunct note as I do not believe any portable "written" font is available universally (i.e. served out via the wiki and related systems.) However if one is decided upon may I recommend cursive be at least tested or updated accordingly? AuFCL (talk) 07:21, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have applied the template to page 9. This template does not work in android. Hrishikes (talk) 08:10, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I did not mean to imply this would necessarily solve your issue. On the contrary I wanted to note that this template would need to be updated in line with whatever solution you chose as it has been used in the past to indicate similar situations. Apologies if you took my earlier comment otherwise. Back to the more immediately usable suggestions. AuFCL (talk) 22:25, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I suggest you consider treating this work along the lines of Zodiac Killer letters where both the transcribed text and the page images are available in parallel. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:22, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The zodiac images are small and sidelined, not good for appreciating intricate illustrations. I have just thought up another solution. Index:The Constitution of India 1949 (Gazette Notification Version).djvu may be used as the text version for proper transclusion. This calligraphic version may be transcluded as images. There is no major difference between the two except calligraphy & illustrations in one and Gazette masthead and publisher/printer etc. in the other. So these two may be parallel image and text versions. Is the idea any good? Although I don't know how to run them concurrently. Hrishikes (talk) 08:43, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, the Zodiac images are thumbnail versions, which isn't what you want. It was more the idea of running both text and images. To run the two sets concurrently, you'll probably need to use a two-column table with the text on the left and the image on the right. It will mean transcluding by page rather than as a series of pages. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:55, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Pagewise length of text is not same in the two sets, so the table method will require slicing up the text version into artificial sections. For the time being, I have let go of the calligraphy and gone for framed page (as opposed to full image) transclusion. But the framed pages are curiously getting right-aligned.
 * At present there are two problems with the cursive template. It has to be repeated if another template comes in between, which is very cumbersome. Secondly, it is not supported across devices like the black letter template. But this template has the potential of becoming very useful for heritage texts (where it is desirable to maintain cursiveness, e.g., manuscripts, as the work under discussion technically is.) if it is updated suitably. Hrishikes (talk) 01:18, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * At present there are two problems with the cursive template. It has to be repeated if another template comes in between, which is very cumbersome. Secondly, it is not supported across devices like the black letter template. But this template has the potential of becoming very useful for heritage texts (where it is desirable to maintain cursiveness, e.g., manuscripts, as the work under discussion technically is.) if it is updated suitably. Hrishikes (talk) 01:18, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

St. Patrick's Breastplate
The St. Patrick's Breastplate page has the text of the victorian hymn based on St Patrick's Breastplate. As this hymn is better known as "I bind unto myself to-day" I think the page should be renamed as that. Can someone do that?

According to The Telegraph Book of Hymns on Google books (chapter 54, page 185) C F Alexander didn't do the translation. she wrote the hymn based on translations by others - see Saint Patrick's Breastplate which I have also rewritten to match the reference.

The original Saint Patrick's Breastplate in Old Irish is on oldwikisource, together with a translation.

Polytonic template
I noticed that the polytonic template used on wikipedia is deprecated. Should we avoid it also? I noticed that on one of the computers I have the font becomes pixelated when the template is used whereas if it isn't used it looks better with the native font.Jpez (talk) 05:58, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing any problems, but it really depends on which fonts you've got installed. The polytonic template is looking for "Athena, Gentium, 'Palatino Linotype', 'Arial Unicode MS', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', 'Lucida Grande', Code2000". I usually use the greek template, which adds DejaVu Sans to the beginning of the list. The templated characters are preferable to the raw Greek characters because a) the template automatically assigns the gr language tag; b) the glyphs are more easily distinguished as Greek from the Roman glyphs around them, which follows the usual foreign language convention. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:27, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Ok thanks Beeswaxcandle, will do. Thanks for the explanation and clarification. Jpez (talk) 09:57, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * fwiw I'm fairly sure the reason that and similar templates are already deprecated or are about to be deprecated is the not-too-long-ago [re]acceptance & restoration of [//www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Universal_Language_Selector/WebFonts#Font_detection  ULS WebFonts] foundation wide after some of the previous "kinks" with having it as a standard were addressed. To see if you have the WebFont/ULS feature enabled, click the Gear icon next to the Languages navigation side-bar menu, select the Fonts tab and make sure the option to Download fonts when needed.... is checked (make sure to save/apply any changes you may make!). -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:55, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Index:UK Traffic Signs Manual - Chapter 5 Road Markings. 2003 (Sixth Impression 2009).pdf
Loads OK in a PDF viewer, but for some reason Wikimedias own viewer and Proofread page hate it's format, and the OCR text layer is weired.

Is someone willing to check the PDF for something obvious? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:41, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Popular Science offer of Sovereign of the Seas blueprint/pan
In maybe 1937 Popular Science would send an original plan of the Clipper Ship 'Sovereign of The Seas' to anyone who wrote in and asked.

My father, long since deceased, send for that plan - I still have it

My father used it to build a 12/th of an inch to the foot model of the Sovereign

which I also still have.

Whatd I would dearly like to know: What was the year/month  of the magazine that printed that offer of that plan?

Arnold H Nelson

5056 North Marine Drive Chicago IL 60640


 * I found it being sold in a November 1937 copy of Popular Science Monthly, but it looks as though it was offered in other issues as well through the years ('26-'37)... Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:39, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Table with arrows
The table on Page:Collected Physical Papers.djvu/263 contains ↓, → and ↑ arrows, help required for this; also for the vertical alignment of the numbers. With thanks, Hrishikes (talk) 17:43, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * on it —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:11, 1 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I butted in, and this was the best I could do. Also apologize to Beleg Tâl for not checking the page history, that he did already the work. — Ineuw talk 20:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks to both Beleg Tâl and Ineuw. Subsequent tables also have arrows, I'll follow this example there. Hrishikes (talk) 00:40, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Polytonic template
I noticed that the polytonic template used on wikipedia is deprecated. Should we avoid it also? I noticed that on one of the computers I have the font becomes pixelated when the template is used whereas if it isn't used it looks better with the native font.Jpez (talk) 05:58, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing any problems, but it really depends on which fonts you've got installed. The polytonic template is looking for "Athena, Gentium, 'Palatino Linotype', 'Arial Unicode MS', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', 'Lucida Grande', Code2000". I usually use the greek template, which adds DejaVu Sans to the beginning of the list. The templated characters are preferable to the raw Greek characters because a) the template automatically assigns the gr language tag; b) the glyphs are more easily distinguished as Greek from the Roman glyphs around them, which follows the usual foreign language convention. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:27, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Ok thanks Beeswaxcandle, will do. Thanks for the explanation and clarification. Jpez (talk) 09:57, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * fwiw I'm fairly sure the reason that and similar templates are already deprecated or are about to be deprecated is the not-too-long-ago [re]acceptance & restoration of [//www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Universal_Language_Selector/WebFonts#Font_detection  ULS WebFonts] foundation wide after some of the previous "kinks" with having it as a standard were addressed. To see if you have the WebFont/ULS feature enabled, click the Gear icon next to the Languages navigation side-bar menu, select the Fonts tab and make sure the option to Download fonts when needed.... is checked (make sure to save/apply any changes you may make!). -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:55, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Index:UK Traffic Signs Manual - Chapter 5 Road Markings. 2003 (Sixth Impression 2009).pdf
Loads OK in a PDF viewer, but for some reason Wikimedias own viewer and Proofread page hate it's format, and the OCR text layer is weired.

Is someone willing to check the PDF for something obvious? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:41, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Popular Science offer of Sovereign of the Seas blueprint/pan
In maybe 1937 Popular Science would send an original plan of the Clipper Ship 'Sovereign of The Seas' to anyone who wrote in and asked.

My father, long since deceased, send for that plan - I still have it

My father used it to build a 12/th of an inch to the foot model of the Sovereign

which I also still have.

Whatd I would dearly like to know: What was the year/month  of the magazine that printed that offer of that plan?

Arnold H Nelson

5056 North Marine Drive Chicago IL 60640


 * I found it being sold in a November 1937 copy of Popular Science Monthly, but it looks as though it was offered in other issues as well through the years ('26-'37)... Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:39, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Table with arrows
The table on Page:Collected Physical Papers.djvu/263 contains ↓, → and ↑ arrows, help required for this; also for the vertical alignment of the numbers. With thanks, Hrishikes (talk) 17:43, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * on it —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:11, 1 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I butted in, and this was the best I could do. Also apologize to Beleg Tâl for not checking the page history, that he did already the work. — Ineuw talk 20:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks to both Beleg Tâl and Ineuw. Subsequent tables also have arrows, I'll follow this example there. Hrishikes (talk) 00:40, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Another font related question, please.
In THIS PSM title template, I tried to make it look closer to THIS ORIGINAL using  "style=font-family:Arial narrow, sans-serif;"  but without any luck. Can I assume that the problem is related to Arial not being used because it's not an open style font. Can someone point to the error of my ways? — Ineuw talk 14:10, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * For starters - shouldn't that be  style="font-family:'Arial narrow', sans-serif;"  ? Note the double and single quote marks; if a font name has any spaces in it, the name needs to be wrapped in the a set of quote marks itself ( ' ) -- the "opposite" of what is wrapping the style string ( " ). -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:49, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks GO3. Irregardless, there is no such a thing as 'Arial Narrow' in my computer's or browser's font choices so I selected 'Liberation Sans Narrow', which is just as good.— Ineuw talk 02:14, 12 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I still have Arial, Arial Black, Arial Narrow, Arial Unicode MS, French Script MT, Vivaldi, Old English, ShelleyVolante and about 100 other fonts. I once used some of them in webpages and MSWORD. N.B. Happy Birthday to me @68 in many fonts except comic. I have lived longer than you fellows (except perhaps Ineuw) and you all may not make it this far. —Maury (talk) 05:59, 12 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Fonts I have, and are not the problem for me. I am concerned about visiting readers who don't have the fonts for full effect, or other browser problems. I am trying to cover everyone.— Ineuw talk 06:34, 12 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Unless it's a server-side webfont (see Fraktur discussion above) what you're asking can't really be done, due to different systems having different fonts. It's the main reason for using 'sans-serif' instead of 'Arial'. The browser should always grab the user's default sans-serif font. The Haz talk 12:28, 5 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the explanation. — Ineuw talk 19:00, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Page Checker gadget - page is not directing properly . . . again
Please try it— Ineuw talk 21:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Still not working and tried with Firefox for Mac and Safari --kathleen wright5 (talk) 14:33, 17 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Not working in Firefox on Windows 7 for me either. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:59, 17 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Who "fixed" it the last time it was not working? Certainly nobody here on WS can/did; all we have control over is the icon and the URL it automatically generates & executes when clicked on. Everything else takes place via the tool's host over on WMF Labs --but-- I'm not exactly sure where or who to poke to draw attention to our issue @ tools.wmflabs.org. Phabricator? Tool's Owner? anyone? Beuler? -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:39, 25 May 2015 (UTC)


 * For any tool, you can check the tools homepage to find the list of maintainers, and a means of contacting them. In this case it's . &mdash; Sam Wilson ( Talk &bull; Contribs ) &hellip; 23:48, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, I have been added as I can restart a webservice, and can poke people. I don't code. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:18, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Help me - Where is my work?
My page has been redirected by wiki, then by wikisource and now by wikibook; someone called billinghurst has moved it again and frankly, I don't have a clue where its at now.

Its not me that creating all the links - I was quite happy for my page to remain where it was at. Can you tell me where the link to my work is now at? Dougie3211 (talk) 14:30, 8 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Your page is at <small style="background-color: rgba(152,251,152, 0.5)">[Information redacted per this discussion. --Xover (talk) 09:55, 30 July 2019 (UTC)] . Hesperian 15:14, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

How to create png file from djvu page ?
I'm proofreading the book - Index:Immigration and the Commissioners of Emigration of the state of New York.djvu When the table of contents was set several pages were set as missing image - high-res raw scan is available ... I can go through the download, crop, etc to complete the proof of these image pages. What I would like to get is the high-res raw scan of six more pages, specifically Page:Immigration and the Commissioners of Emigration of the state of New York.djvu/259 through 264 and 269 because these are landscape pages with tables of numbers. With high-res png files that I can download I will be able to get usable ocr results. Thanks Robin2014 (talk) 17:15, 8 June 2015 (UTC)


 * If you edit the page file, there should be a tab at the top called "Image", which if you click will give you the high quality scan. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:12, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The high-res page scans are uploaded by HesperianBot i.e. me, and they are much higher resolution than the ones provided by the "Image" tab. Uploading of right-res page scans happens semi-automatically for pages tagged with missing image or raw image. I discourage tagging tables that way, but we can make an exception here if Beleg Tâl's proposed solution doesn't work for you: tag the pages with missing image and wait for HesperianBot to upload high-res page scans. It might take several days. Hesperian 01:42, 9 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I followed Beleg Tâl's advice for 1 page - rotate page, view page as png, save png to my pc - then used ABBYY FineReader 9.0 to get ocr output which I put at en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Immigration_and_the_Commissioners_of_Emigration_of_the_state_of_New_York.djvu/259   The results are an improvement over the initial ocr BUT there are 31 rows by 15 columns = 465 cells to proofread.  I guess marking the pages as 'raw image' for the bot to process will probably not provide OCR.  I set 5 pages to raw image and will wait for the bot to take the next step.  I guess the bot will give a larger high-res than the manual steps - the image pages have resolution as high as 3,944 x 2,488.  Using firefox as the browser, I did the manual steps for the 5 pages and saved png on my computer just to compare with what the bot does. When I saved to my pc the highest res was 1024 x 645 which is the laptop screen res.  When I would repeat the manual steps for a page the png resolution would drop to 921 x 581. Thanks  Robin2014 (talk) 15:42, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Categories gone missing?
I'm not quite sure if I'm not just missing something obvious here, but the categories on The Wounded Cricketer don't seem to be showing — with the exception of the date category that's added by the header. Could someone point out my error? Thanks! &mdash; Sam Wilson ( Talk &bull; Contribs ) &hellip; 23:41, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I've put the categories into the header as well, and it seems to work now. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I didn't know about that header parameter. Can it be added to the auto-filled header text? Although, it does seem a bit odd that it'd preclude the use of manual categories. &mdash; Sam Wilson ( Talk &bull; Contribs ) &hellip; 00:11, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It shouldn't preclude the manual addition — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:24, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The pages-tag wasn't closed. That always messes things up.--Thurs (talk) 09:47, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Aha! Thank you very much :) I was mightily confused (but had given up, in favour of other things hehe). &mdash; Sam Wilson ( Talk &bull; Contribs ) &hellip; 11:02, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Annotation help
I want to link the term LAW OF LOMBARDY on Page:Confessions of a Thug.djvu/7 with https://books.google.co.in/books?id=9dNVAAAAcAAJ. Can anyone please help? Hrishikes (talk) 14:44, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Would it not be better to link it to The Law of Lombardy, and leave it at that until the work linked is added to Wikisource? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:04, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * And in the "Wikilinks as annotations" section on the Wikilinks page, it states that "Links to non-Wikimedia pages are not acceptable"—unless my interpretation is incorrect. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:06, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * There are templates here like ext scan link, IA, IA small link, even a category called Category:External link templates. The link I want is in line with these items. Hrishikes (talk) 16:32, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * It's added to Wikisource now. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:35, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 16:41, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * @Hrishikes: The templates you cited above are usually used for Author page purposes, etc., and not for annotations within texts themselves. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:23, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Should the word Main: be removed from the title of this book ?
Should the word Main be removed from en.wikisource.org/wiki/Main:Irish_Emigration_and_The_Tenure_of_Land_in_Ireland ? I guess that would be renaming ?

As I am working to put the chapters into subpages I noticed that my first transclusion inadvertently set title = Main:Irish Emigration and The Tenure of Land in Ireland, and this has carried forward to chapter 1 and chapter 2. Do these titles need to be renamed to remove the word Main: ? Robin2014 (talk) 14:55, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. You could Move them as well, In More tab, upper right of page.— Mpaa (talk) 17:53, 13 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks ! Now I'll learn about the more tab and move. Robin2014 (talk) 15:27, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Transcluding across pages using hashes
Using hashes to distinguish sections, is it possible to transclude across pages correctly, à la the tags? The hashes are a much nicer way of doing it, but while they work over a single page (like here), they seem to encroach onto the next section if the transclusion runs over a page (like here). Either there is a bug or I have made a silly mistake, it would seem. Ostrichyearning (talk) 23:16, 14 June 2015 (UTC)


 * ✅ But I think only separate articles/chapters should be transcluded sepatately by using section tags, and not sections/divisions of an article/chapter. The Visitors and The Preliminary Tests on p72 do not require section tags. Hrishikes (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Index:UK Traffic Signs Manual - Chapter 8 - Part 1 (Traffic Safety Measures and Signs for Road). Designs 2009.pdf
This should have been named as in the title for the document and I've only just noticed this :(

Can someone that's able to do a mass page move to the new name assist?

The correct name should have been Index: UK Traffic Signs Manual - Chapter 8 - Part 2- Traffic Safety Measures and Signs for Road Works and Temporary Situations) - Designs - 2009.pdf and I intend to request a rename at Commons, once I know the pages will get migrated here. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:21, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Wikisource webpages keep on loading non stop
Wikisource keeps on loading a page long after it's fully loaded. In Windows 7, this is true with Firefox, Comodo Dragon (Chrome) and Opera, but not with IE 11. Every other website loads and stops normally, including Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons. This ongoing loading is also in Linux Xubuntu 14.04 Firefox, but not Chromium (Chrome). I suspect that it's some modification of a javascript that causes it. — Ineuw talk 21:44, 18 June 2015 (UTC)


 * I think it happens when tools.wmflabs.org is slow, as that's where various javascripts are served from (e.g.). Annoying. Not sure what can be done. It's not just you though. &mdash; Sam Wilson ( Talk &bull; Contribs ) &hellip; 03:20, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I figured that I wasn't the only one, but it was worth to find out. Let this be a warning to tools.wmflabs.org. A Smiley.jpg — Ineuw talk 04:04, 19 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Yep, labs is down, due to a disk failure: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incident_documentation/20150617-LabsNFSOutage
 * Some things should be okay again now. &mdash; Sam Wilson ( Talk &bull; Contribs ) &hellip; 05:39, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Problem of /* Proofread */ not registering.
A number of pages I proofread, marked and so saved, show up as not proofread. When the page is reopened to check the radio button - it's on proofread, but the summary line is empty. Is this part of the tools.wmflabs.org crash? Or perhaps mice chewed through the javascript or php? — Ineuw talk 18:34, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Have you verified as much by checking the Page Status section when viewing the revision Diff of a Page: in question? If the diff shows the proofreading status was changed, then I suspect the problem indeed lies with something off-site (or with server caching maybe?). -- George Orwell III (talk) 19:05, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll do that - but following was noticed - yesterday, I ran the volume status checker, to get the proofread page count and it had about 20-30 sequential pages marked as not proofread, but the pages showed the color status properly, only the summary was missing. Today, it's different in that the Summary is missing and the color indicator remains red. But, since it comes from wmflabs, I know that there was a crash and it is more likely the cause of the problem. — Ineuw talk 19:25, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems edits from around June 11th & 12th are the ones specifically behaving that way in Checker. Locally, all else indicates the correct status just fine. It must be something wmfLabs related; & I am of no help when it comes those pseudo off-site entities. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:20, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

A simple table row problem, which I can't resolve.
Hang my head in shame but try as I might, can't figure out why the text in this single row table don't line up on the top. — Ineuw talk 21:47, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Only the table cells (TD, TH) within a row (TR) "accept" vertical-align:top .css stylings; not rows themselves. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:15, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Remove pages from .djvu file
Help needed to remove two pages (scans of extraneous materials) from the file. The pages in question are 73 and 74. Thank you very much! Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 03:54, 22 June 2015 (UTC).

✅ -- Hrishikes (talk) 08:45, 22 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Captain Nemo (talk) 10:16, 22 June 2015 (UTC).

Editing a book to fix typos (93 by Victor Hugo)
I recently found this site and have started to read 93 by Victor Hugo (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ninety-three) that I downloaded from it. So far I am 25% in and have found about 15 instances of typos. Some are missing quotation marks. Some are clearly where a scan thought the letting "h" was "li" or some such thing. And one case is a double word. Is there a way for me to fix these or submit them to someone? I briefly scanned through the help page and couldn't make heads or tails of if it was alright for me to do these repairs (or confirm if they are part of the original text and should be left). I am happy to do the edits myself if that is ok but I am new and didn't want to act incorrectly.

Update: Ok I went to edit the document and found that the original text is displayed next to the book text and I fixed a few that do not match. However, there are some where there is a missing quote mark (First word on page 87 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Ninety-three.djvu/91) that I am not sure what to do about. Clearly the quote mark is missing but it is missing in the original text too. Regards, Adam
 * For my money the changes you have made so far are perfectly correct (and please keep going if you see any more corrections!) With regards the missing opening quote that is a somewhat hard case: you might consider any of these alternatives:<ul><li>leaving the page unchanged (on the basis of it matches the book page image—even though the typesetting technically is at fault),</li><li>marking the missing quote mark "silently" (i.e. note to proofreaders only—a bit late in this instance!) by adding sic at the point where the quote ought to have appeared, or</li><li>marking the missing quote mark by substituting the opening word "The" with .</li></ul> As you see there are several ways of approaching this particular issue (each of which has both pros and cons) and I think it likely somebody else will raise further possibilities I've not thought of as well. AuFCL (talk) 09:24, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

EB11 Volume 27
Anyone know what happened here? I was trying to look for the article on the popes Urban but it looks like someone took a torch to the scan index. Or did it just not exist? — Llywelyn<font color="Gold">II  13:20, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The short story is that something is broken in how djvu files are handled somewhere by Mediawiki and/or ProofreadPage extension. There are more details in the archive but the bottom line is that no solution has been found yet (I am not even sure someone is still looking for it ) There should also be a bug filed.— Mpaa (talk) 21:18, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * See also Scriptorium— Mpaa (talk) 21:22, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Paragraph breaks within poems
Is it possible to insert a paragraph break within a &lt;poem&gt;? The usual double-space results in a &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; instead of a &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;, which makes the line break much larger than usual. Ending one poem and starting another just collapses into one poem. The only other solution I can think of is to forego the poem extension and use line breaks on every line, but this will be unwieldy and ugly so I want to see if there is another option. Example: Page:Book of common prayer (TEC, 1979).pdf/46 —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:39, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * This is part of the reason that I've almost stopped using Poem tags completely and use explicit line breaks. I've had a go at that page to show what I mean. Feel free to revert. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:30, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, that works well. Unfortunately it results in complecated markup, and will take much longer to proofread :( —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:53, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Need help creating an .svg image file based on complex text
<p style="margin-bottom:1.5em;">Is there anyone out there who can make a .svg image file out of the text below?

<div style="display: inline-block; color: #000000; font-family: 'Linux Libertine',Georgia,Times,serif; font-size: 2rem; line-height: 0.75; font-weight: 500; text-align: justify; overflow: hidden;">

<p style="margin-top:1.5em;">The raw HTML used to generate the above is... ... and the text itself (under the Linux Libertine font) in hex is: Appreciate any effort or guidance on how to make this seemingly simple task a reality. TIA. -- George Orwell III (talk) 07:08, 21 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Is this of any use? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:45, 21 June 2015 (UTC)


 * In principle this ought to be fairly close to what you asked for. May need some border trim (which is where my knowledge runs out: width/height/viewBox probably need changing at the very least?):


 * AuFCL (talk) 08:11, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys. I didn't have much luck with the online-converter (no Linux Libertine font-family online?) but managed to "alter" AuFCL's idea some....


 * I'm lost when it comes to this (viewport, stroke, etc.) but the above renders locally at least. I'll let this simmer for a day or two to see if somebody comes up something "better". -- George Orwell III (talk) 10:48, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Have you tried the SVG editor at WMF labs? https://mol-static.wmflabs.org/svg-edit/editor/svg-editor.html  — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:38, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
 * (As a complete aside I have finally figured out what attribute  et al achieves—and have further come to the conclusion it really is not what you wanted in any case. SVG1.1 overview specifications may be found here.) I took the liberty of submitting your "improved" version to the W3C markup validation service and fiddling with the thing per suggestions made there until it finally passed muster. Here is the result (I completely misled you first time round with the chosen DTD and encoding—apologies! Also note things like   force SVG1.1 as SVG1.0 simply doesn't incorporate that feature&hellip;) -- AuFCL (talk) 08:32, 22 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Made some additions/revisions to prior incarnation after doing some research. Damn if I still can't my head around the coordinate scheme being used; would be nice to shrink the line-height without clipping the text for example. I did manage to embed a link under the text that points to our main page at least. (Note: syntaxhighlight extension appears to be semi-broken; enclose, style settings have no effect). -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:58, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Firefox 38.0.5 will not display anything when presented with this latest; but will accept (i.e. display and act upon) the linkable image if &lt;svg&gt; attributes  and   are relaxed to (both) values "auto". Does a   set to all zeros even make sense (and if not would it be best to remove the specification?) Hope this helps somewhat. AuFCL (talk) 08:07, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Additional note: I missed this before but expunging the  clause at the same time as leaving   and   unaltered also results in a working image+link in FF. So presumably there is an internal conflict between the three attributes (at least inside the Gecko parser?) AuFCL (talk) 08:52, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
 * GO$III$'s 20:23 version of File:Wikisource-logotext.svg is much better. Now how about tweaking  to   to alleviate that "chopped-off-at-the-knees" effect? (Or does it work perfectly in I.E. already?) AuFCL (talk) 10:21, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked the uploaded version some more and my latest is now above but I cannot for the life of me understand where the "extra" offsets are coming from (beginning to suspect that Libertine font isn't all that svg friendly?). The straight hex text under plain old html (as applied by the flat-list side-bar gadget) is far easier to manipulate but its just not as "crisp" as the .svg variant would seem to be. I'll keep pounding away I guess. -- George Orwell III (talk) 12:13, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Not a main-stream issue but appending attribute  to the   (or indeed to the   tag if you prefer—inner tag seems to take precedence in FireFox at least) tag emulates the flat-list gadget hover popup. The "crispness" argument seems to defy logic—I cannot usefully advise. AuFCL (talk) 12:49, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Moving over redirect
What's the proper way to move a page over redirect? The desired move is Author:M. G. Robinet to Author:G. Robinet (M is for Monsieur, of course!). Thank you, Captain Nemo (talk) 00:27, 24 June 2015 (UTC).
 * ✅. The easiest way is to delete the target to make way for move. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:56, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Dividing two authors in the header template
How can the two authors be divided in the header template on this page? Macfadden's Fasting, Hydropathy and Exercise Jpez (talk) 13:43, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
 * You can use the "override_author" field for this, as I have done. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:01, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

✅ Thanks! Jpez (talk) 15:29, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Two different references pointing to the same footnote
On this page Page:Arcana Coelestia - Volume I.djvu/36 there are two astericks in the first paragraph pointing to the same reference. How do you implement this into the transcription?
 * You use the "name" attribute. I have done it in the text. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:00, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

✅ Thanks! Jpez (talk) 15:29, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Pages missing in djvu, how to insert?
I know this has been asked in the past, but the responses I found are of the "there, I did it for you" variety, and I want to learn how to fix this problem in the future. I am working on Index:Memoirs_of_a_Trait_in_the_Character_of_George_III.djvu and discovered that two pages are missing from the scan, specifically work pages 229 and 230, which should be in the index between 286 and 287. I have found another scan which includes those pages here.

I don't even know what tools to use. How does one:
 * 1) Extract two pages from a PDF file
 * 2) Insert those pages in a djvu file
 * 3) Correct the WS index after updating the file at commons?

(And feel free to point me at the documentation, which must exist somewhere around here.) Thanks in advance. -Xpctr8 (talk) 13:56, 29 June 2015 (UTC)


 * PDF pages can be extracted as images using the PDF24 Creator application. There are many such ways. After extraction of the pages as images, assemble them in a separate folder. Convert that folder to djvu using Djvu Toy or such other application. Then open the original djvu file using the edit option of Djvu Toy. Insert the new djvu file at appropriate location. Hope this helps. But mind, in the cyber world, there are many roads going to the same destination. This is just one of the roads. Hrishikes (talk) 14:35, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

A question about CSS classes
Do we have a single file for CSS "classes," if not, where are the CSS class declarations like "fsInherit"? — Ineuw talk 18:09, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Technically we never had a "single file" for .css classes but to answer your question, the two main site specific .css files most likely for revisions, etc. are:
 * MediaWiki:Gadget-Site.css
 * MediaWiki:Gadget-enws-tweaks.css
 * I can list the rest if one of those doesn't hold what you're looking for. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:01, 29 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks GO3, found it in MediaWiki:Gadget-enws-tweaks.css. — Ineuw talk 23:01, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Language help
From time to time, I do the proofreading of Index:A History of Hindu Chemistry Vol 1.djvu. This work frequently has quotations and footnotes in Sanskrit, Greek, Latin, French and German. I have done the proofreading as best I could, but would appreciate if someone knowledgeable in languages could do some checking. Hrishikes (talk) 11:14, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Hrishikes, if you add the template to any Greek text you may find I'll add it for you. I can't help with the other languages though. Jpez (talk) 16:26, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I had just gone ahead and put the text there, so right now I can't remember where the Greek words are; however, in another of my projects, you can help with the footnotes on this and this page and other pages. Thanks in advance. Hrishikes (talk) 16:45, 1 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I also keep an eye on Category:Pages with missing Greek characters, so anything tagged with greek missing will be gotten to eventually. I can help with Latin and French too if/whenever there is a list of problematic passages. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:57, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * So that explains why when I make my weekly visit to this category it's empty these days. Thanks for doing this. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:07, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Speaking of which, would it not be prudent to make Category:Problematic language templates for common Latin-alphabet languages, for precisely this reason? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:59, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * We've avoided doing this, because it's assumed that the diacritics of the European languages that use the Latin alphabet are easily accessed through the Latin option on drop down menu on the CharInsert bar. But if it's felt to be something that would be useful, then diacritics missing could be created. I'm suggesting just one template, rather than proliferating for all the Latin and Germanic languages. Alternatively, could just use the existing symbol missing. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:07, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * For starters:

With thanks, Hrishikes (talk) 17:13, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Page:A History of Hindu Chemistry Vol 1.djvu/7
 * Page:A History of Hindu Chemistry Vol 1.djvu/32
 * Page:A History of Hindu Chemistry Vol 1.djvu/46 and next page
 * Page:A Sheaf Gleaned in French Fields.djvu/5
 * Page:A Sheaf Gleaned in French Fields.djvu/18 and subsequent pages


 * I've gone through most of them. They are all fine (better than some English-language proofreading I've seen) so there is no need for anything beyond the regular validation process. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:11, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Many thanks. I was not really confident that they were OK. Though I try to be meticulous. Hrishikes (talk) 01:26, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Reworking material from elsewhere
I teach history at the university level, and want to ensure that I am giving students texts that are accurate, cited properly, and legal. The Internet Sourcebook is a nightmare in these respects, and cannot be corrected since it is no longer maintained. Wikisource strikes me as one of the best available solutions for fixing this situation due to its ability to provide a clear and verifiable relationship to an original document, and to break things down into appropriate sections rather than giving students a link to one massive file representing the entire book. But the process for importing material from elsewhere is unclear to me. I've posted a few books on Project Gutenberg, creating files in their PG RST format, which can be easily converted into MediaWiki markup using Pandoc. It would be ideal if you had software that could take such a file and automatically break it up to match a set of imported photos, using the in-text page numbers.

I would also appreciate the ability to show in the text where I have corrected the original, and on looking through the archives I see many other limitations, such as the lack of a standard way to insert sidenotes: these are much easier to encode in TEI, and it seems that there has been some discussion of using it, but I cannot find anything more recent than 2013. It would be brilliant if you would consider supporting something like TEI Simple, since this would allow all sorts of accurate materials from elsewhere to be added and corrected, such as from the Text Creation Partnership.AndrewNJ (talk) 21:26, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Delete pages from djvu
Hello, can someone please help me get rid of the two pages marked problematic (duplicate) here in this index before I star proofreading. Index:A Compendium of the Chief Doctrines of the True Christian Religion.djvu. Thanks in advance for any help. Jpez (talk) 08:46, 19 July 2015 (UTC)


 * ✅ —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:07, 21 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Jpez (talk) 15:45, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

1911 Encyclopædia Britannica
I've been finding all sorts of newly appearing errors in parts of the 1911 EB that previously included no errors. There may have been a template change or a software bug; I do not know.

Two affected pages are:
 * 1911_Encyclopædia_Britannica/Theatre which used to display correctly, but now does not. Some other articles transcluded from this same volume do appear correctly.

and


 * Index:EB1911_-_Volume_26.djvu which gives an error message and no longer lists the included pages. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:59, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Oddly, the volume 26 is not behaving like a DjVu file when I visit it on Commons, and this may have something to do with the problem. However, I can see no edits in the edit histories there (or here) that would suggest anything. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:52, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * This is an ongoing issue. Perhaps Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2015 ought to be dragged back out of the archives and somehow "pinned" here until the underlying problem is resolved? AuFCL (talk) 21:20, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea, provided you know how to pin the item here so that it is not bot-archived. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:06, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
 * You've got me right there. I was hoping somebody else knew how to do that! AuFCL (talk) 06:29, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Per User:Wikisource-bot inserting, e.g. ought to pin this thread for 120 days. Worth doing? AuFCL (talk) 06:50, 21 July 2015 (UTC)


 * see also EB1911 Volume 25 Scan File Corruption note there is a phabricator https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86611#974012. <font face="Vijaya"> Slowking4 ♡<span lang="de-Latf" style="font-family:UnifrakturMaguntia, UnifrakturCook, Unifraktur, serif; font-size:113%;">Farmbrough's revenge 18:18, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Iran nuclear deal
I can't figure out what is the license of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action:

http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2015/150714_01_en.htm (links at the bottom)

Is it possible to put it on Wikisource? --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 18:38, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, you can put it onto Wikisource. Hard to tell immediately which licence the European Commission is releasing their documentation as it is vague here and aspirational here. I would say PD-EdictGov and have a poke at help:Copyright tags. If you have a source file (pdf or djvu), load it here, and we can look at it again, after some more opinions, then work out whether we copy to Commons. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:37, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Alternative text of speech by King Edward VIII of UK in 1936: ok or not?
King Edward during his abdication crisis submitted his proposed text to the government. Is the text of that speech suitable for inclusion in Wikisource? Darmokand (talk) 09:34, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Help is needed for a mysterious hanging indent problem
Can someone please look at this mystery? About halfway down the page there is a problem with the hanging indent of this index entry and can't figure why. All other entries with identical hanging indent,  , line up perfectly. Cornell University. First Annual Report of the Agricultural Experiment Station, 1888 etc.— Ineuw talk 06:13, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * They all lined perfectly because none of the initial strings were long enough to need wrapping; only the subsequent 2nd or 3rd entries needed it (plus were "padded" with template:gap). The difference between padding and indent should have followed the premise set by the rest of the "normal" entries (padding-left:4em; text-indent:-2em has a diff of 2.0em while padding-left:12.8em & text-indent:-10.2em is a diff of 2.6em) when it came to those exceptional lines (padding-left:12em; text-indent:-10em is still a diff of only 2.0em in other words). -- George Orwell III (talk) 08:48, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * and fyi... view that page again and tick your browser's select all option to "highlight" everything; note the normally "invisible" yet still clickable "hash" marks in the right margin. -- George Orwell III (talk) 08:55, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes! Everything makes sense and thanks a lot. I suspected the wrap and noticed the clickable hash marks but didn't know what to make of it. As for the padding/indent differences, I tried to line up the text as in the original, but will settle for close. — Ineuw talk 16:18, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
 * n.b.:Instead of using two gap templates, you could use a single ditto template, and everything would align precisely. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:01, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Missing TOC Line
In Page:Forth Bridge (1890).djvu/7, the row under APPENDIX does not show. This is probably a simple fix for somebody who knows what they are doing. Thanks, Ostrichyearning (talk) 12:02, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅; your sc template had too many pipes. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:15, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Content hierarchy of the American Journal of Sociology
I could use some help sorting out the best way to organize the hierarchy of the American Journal of Sociology. Specifically, I am unsure how to best organize the items which aren't fully-qualified articles, the things that fall under "Reviews," "Notes," "Recent Literature" and similar sections. Items under these broad sections seem to range anywhere from a handful of pages, to couple paragraphs, to a single sentence in length, or sometimes even lists. So far these have been collected into a single page and #section-linked, which is valid, but I wonder if and how these should be given their own subpages to emphasize them as standalone items. djr13 (talk) 19:51, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * A way to do it is by using Portals, see Portal:Popular Science Monthly for an example. Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 00:21, 30 July 2015 (UTC).

Formatting help
Suggestions welcomed for the formatting of headers in the PotM. See example. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:37, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Firstly, perhaps a better place for the discussion is Index talk:Parsons How to Know the Ferns 7th ed.djvu ?


 * Secondly, how about this:


 * Benefits: no hard line-break, no use of deprecated &lt;u&gt; tag, line will only be on the bottom row if the line has to wrap. I think the group description should be left-aligned browser default, but I am open to disagreement. We could also nowrap the two lines of the description so that if it wraps it will wrap at that specific point. We could also use a hard line-break but I think that is undesireable. Note that if there is a hard line break and the screen width is too small it will be really wonky.—Beleg Tâl (talk) 23:03, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Missing one of the enhanced editing toolbars
Unable to close the header/footer - the toolbar is missing and it limits the space to proofread. Is there a way to fix it?— Ineuw talk 09:32, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I can't help myself but see Administrators'_noticeboard It isn't just you. AuFCL (talk) 09:34, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

newbie needs guidance
Hello experienced wikiSource users I am first time newbie that is fairly confused about the right place to put source material about the 1960's Civil Rights Movement. Is it wikiSource or wikiBooks or maybe it doesn't belong on wiki at all? Help would be appreciated !! Here's the details - A participant in the 1960's Civil Rights Movement in the East Lansing Michigan area has written a pamphlet about the movement based on his personal knowledge. The author, John S. Duley, had asked me to help put the text on a public wiki. The author did not want to claim any copyright and would like to share it broadly for historical documentation. It includes first hand information about the intimidation and terror faced by the students from the North who traveled to help in the Southern Freedom struggles. John Duley is in his 90's and needs assistance in the publication of this historical information. The file is uploaded but it is not clear if it really meets the publication criteria. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/File:Civil_Rights_Movement_EL_Text.pdf

THANKS for your advice Will Loew-Blosser


 * Right here on Wikisource is the correct place for this work. We just need a written release from the author. It can either be in the scanned work or can be through the OTRS process. If you and Mr. Duley decide to go with the first option, then I suggest you use one of the Creative Commons Licenses. The release does need to be integrated into the text (maybe on page 2, but could be on an additional page at the end. I note that a stray page has accidentally been scanned at the end of the file. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:29, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi! I'm looking for the history of v = u + a.t and other equations of motion
Hi! I am looking for the history of SUVAT equations. Who documented them first in history? When were they framed? It was not Issac Newton, I can say, I have perused the Principia Mathematica of Newton here, but nowhere this has been explained. I have also perused various history books. Nowhere is this mentioned. 117.201.201.114 18:24, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe w:Wikipedia:Reference desk would be a better place to ask. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Originally discovered by Galileo, later framed with Newton's second law. See here. Hrishikes (talk) 00:42, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Restore deleted pages?
Is it possible to restore deleted pages? Some pages I care about have been deleted, it was transcript of some speeches I can ask author to release copyright. But it is useful to ask only if they can be undeleted since I no longer have a copy of transcript. --Krishna Pagadala (talk) 01:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * All pages that are deleted are technically capable of being undeleted. If you can get a release into the public domain of the works, then we can definitely have them undeleted. We follow the process in place at  Commons:OTRS so please utilise that, with the only difference being to state that the works are at English Wikisource and give the respective urls.  Once that has been submitted, then you can contact us here, of via info@undefinedwikisource.org and we can follow up with those who have access to the OTRS queue. — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Sectioning
I am trying to use the ## s1 ##, ## s2 ##, etc. route for sectioning, but to no avail. Has anything changed where this type of formatting is concerned? I have used it many times in the past, although now in edit mode, it renders as,. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:06, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You're seeing the full version of LST. To set it back, you need to go to the Gadgets section of your Preferences and turn "Easy LST" on again. It's the second option under "Editing tools for Page: Namespace". Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:18, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thought it might have something to do with having restored/adjusted my preferences, etc. Thanks, BWC. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:35, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Ask for help button fails in mobile mode
If someone has the time, can they run the mobile desktop and try the "Ask for help" button. When I try it off my phone it has conniptions and shows the header of this page in editor mode. I am guessing that it is interference fromb the preload function, though hard to tell from this device. Thanks. — billinghurst  sDrewth  07:25, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Cute. It gives me this:


 * (not sure if that is what you wanted though?) AuFCL (talk) 08:57, 25 August 2015 (UTC) The above renders as an unhelpful pink box thus:

Mobile editing is not currently available on your browser. Please try a different browser.
 * It seems to be something about the button itself in mobile mode. :-/ — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:11, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know if this is significant but the HTML drawing the button is subtly different in desktop and mobile mode. Under "desktop" I am receiving:


 * —but under "mobile" instead:


 * —thought not a promising name I wonder if the fact class "webfonts-changed" is dropped in mobile mode might prompt a reaction if asked in the right circles? AuFCL (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Just a reminder - most desktop view "default" .css definitions are not automatically "present" in mobile view to begin with. At the same time, defs prefixed with mw- or mw-ui- should be one of those types that are defined by default under both desktop & mobile views (if I'm not mistaken) so there is definitely some sort of disconnect going on here. I'll look into this particular nuance when I get some time but if anybody wants to "cross-check" definitions on their own, .css defs can be added/usurped thru MediaWiki:Mobile.css to affect mobile Mode (or so they claim I should say). -- George Orwell III (talk) 19:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Page number at footer appears above body of text
Suggestions on how to remedy this; as well as any suggestions with regard to TOC formatting in general. I wish to keep the table simple, and no dotted TOC formatting please. Thank you! Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:23, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * When tables are split and there is text below the table on the first page, then a nop is needed as the first line of the footer. With respect to formatting, you've done what I would do. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:45, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:14, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Another way to do it is to add a table row in the footer and place the page number there. — Ineuw talk 01:30, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Trouble with changing from one scan to another
Hi! I need a little help with the book Index:Narratives of the mission of George Bogle to Tibet.djvu

It is originally a microfilm from Archive.org. When I started with it, I uploaded a djvu file with page 22 of the Preface missing, so I changed it to a Google books scan (probably of the same microfilm), only to find that it did not have page 22 either and had more problems (I can do without a preface page but not without missing pages in the Contents).

So I reverted to original file, but this way pages of the COntents got all misplaced and "pages not containing text" started corresponding with valid page scans full of text. I tried "rename" and "purge" options but they did not seem to work (I do not have a huge experience with these options). Can you please look into it?

TIA, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 11:49, 27 August 2015 (UTC)


 * You will need to redo the pagelist, I think. However, missing pages can be extracted from copies at Digital Library of India: 1, 2. Hrishikes (talk) 12:39, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Wow. Thanks for the link to India Library. This is of great help.
 * However, there is one more thing I wouyld like to know: if there is a way to re-start the pages, so that the pages that correspond to Contents page scans are populated again. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 16:10, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Script error
Any idea what is causing the script error in the notes section here? Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:16, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * There was a write-up regarding this a few days ago at Village_pump_(technical) although I had gained the impression all was fixed by the time I read about it. Although easy to $$\scriptstyle{\cancel{\text{fix}}~\text{address}}$$ with a null edit I cannot pretend to have a handle on whatever the base fault is/was. AuFCL (talk) 22:21, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * OK. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:04, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Move over redirect
Could someone with appropriate permissions move 10 of Woody Guthrie's songs/True Love to 10 of Woody Guthrie's Songs/True Love over redirect ? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:59, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Done.--Mpaa (talk) 18:01, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Titling advice
How should I title the book War; or, What happens when one loves one's enemy in the Main? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:39, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * What is wrong with using that name? — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:37, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok by me. Wasn't sure if all the punctuation would be a problem. Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:45, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Purpose of Running Header
Will someone please explain the purpose of inputting the running header information when this information is not transcluded into the finished product. This would also be for the inputting of page number, say at the beginning of a chapter, into the footer. I have looked throughout the help documentation, and user and wikisource talk pages, yet am unable to see the reasoning behind this exercise. I'm sure there is something. Humbug26 (talk) 16:07, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Once transcluded, the original pages are still accessible by link to each page. We want users to be able to examine the original alongside our version for comparison. Page numbers are not the only item that changes upon transclusion. For instance, we do no transclude the hyphen from words that are split across two pages, but merge them back into a single word once transcluded. The running header just makes this process easier.


 * Note also that the running header template is occasionally used for other formatting purposes, so I have assumed in answering that your question only pertains to its use in the header / footer within the Page namespace. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:11, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your quick response. Yes, my question did in fact refer to the page namespace. I just found that this constant typing of information was a bit much considering that it seemed only to be making the page look "pretty". One more question: if this information is for a more technical reason, do we really need to be applying formatting, like italics and smaller/larger templates, or will just the words do? I recently processed a book with italicized heading and that was a real chore. Humbug26 (talk) 16:27, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note that there are ways of semi-automating the header field in the Page: namespace. See the paragraph on the header field in Help:Index pages for one way. The other way I use is through a script in my common.js. There is a version of this at TemplateScript. With respect to the question about formatting: Help:Page numbers, uses the words "can be used". I personally don't see the need for an exact reproduction of the style of running header on each page. Other editors, however, do try to get it as close as possible, so to avoid extra handling of pages for the sole purpose of the "pretties" I tend to include the formatting too. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:40, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Footnotes with different labels
Is it possible to have footnotes use something else than numbers? I'm using a footnote in a numbered list, and I'd rather have the footnote with "a" than "1". See The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night/Volume 6. The documentation for reflist mentions the  parameter, but that would only change the list, not the footnote mark in the text, and it didn't work when I tried anyway.
 * we don't change the style between works, the numeric is the site style. As our works are transcluded and resultingly have end notes rather than footnotes, the numeric is a better plus with the WMF style, when a ref is reused the alphabetical are used to signify the repeats. — billinghurst  sDrewth  22:24, 6 September 2015 (UTC)


 * What you're adding is an annotation of your own, and this is generally discouraged. I'm also curious why you didn't transclude the contents from the book, but instead duplicated their content. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:46, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I was thinking that the annotation could be added as a note to the header field for the particular subpage/story, rather than as a user annotation on the table of contents. As a pointer, *if* an annotation is necessary, then we would usually utilise user annotation. — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:11, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I did transclude the contents from the book (in a "collapsed" box), but sometimes the titles in the contents don't match the actual titles in the text, and the same with the nesting. I wanted to provide a more consistent table of contents. Also, creating the an independent table of contents means I don't have to introduce links to Wikisource pages in the page context (I don't know if that's en- or discouraged, but I don't feel it's right). Thanks for the user annotation tip, I should indeed use it. I may remove the annotations later and place them in the headers, as you suggest, but until I reach Volume 6 this is a reminder for me (and it's not that bad for the work, is it?) Jellby (talk) 18:25, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Supplementary thought, and a means to add (internal) relevance to the user annotation would be to add a link to the alternate named work in volume 4, if it exists, or to the corresponding vol. 4 ToC. — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:56, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Equals symbol breaks my edit
In Page:Aboriginesofvictoria02.djvu/65 there are 2 equals symbol at the bottom of the page. These cause a problem in that whenever I apply a formatting template, the sentence is rendered as. I did a search of the Scriptorium but was not able to turn up any hints for how to overcome this problem. Thanks, Maria Pixelwarrior (talk) 06:54, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep the equal signs within double curly braces. Hrishikes (talk) 07:00, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * This really is an adjunct to Hrishikes remarks: See = for one approach. Another is demonstrated on your page: choose the innermost formatting template surrounding the offending equals sign and insert "1=" (or whatever is appropriate to that template) in front of the string being formatted. This forces wikisource to treat all of that text up to the first "|" or ""}}" as being a single value not to be further broken down. (In case this is not already obvious the "=" upsets the system because it tries to treat it as a parameter assignment.) There are other approaches (ask if you are curious) as well but these two are probably simplest in practice. AuFCL (talk) 08:38, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Another alternative is to use the unicode  which is  . This works well with anything when you have a string of characters you can utilise the template *** and use   with the other settings to get the output that you desire. — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:01, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

User:ShakespeareFan00/Sandbox
Smaller text not displaying as such, Explanation please? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 07:37, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It is showing up correctly here with "Smaller" being 83% of the font-size of "Normal" (in F/F.) What precisely is the problem you are seeing? AuFCL (talk) 07:50, 11 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I was seeing them at the same size, Will check local font settings, That's the usual cause :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I took the liberty of adding two more extreme cases (both of which worked here.) If it turns out a local font setting is overriding I guess they will fail for you as well but at least if they work it proves it is a visual rather than technical effect? AuFCL (talk) 22:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Fwiw... I see three progressively smaller font renderings next to each "normal" setting. I can't reproduce anything like what Shakes is describing either. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:34, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Template doc doesn't link to the template
This Font-size85%/s/doc was created for Font-size85%/s, but they don't link. Rather the doc points to an old link from which it was copied. — Ineuw talk 23:49, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Fixed it -- you didn't need to point the template using the PAGENAME magic-word. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:03, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, using PAGENAME was my last desperate attempt. I think it was ROOTPAGENAME before that.

Page:Recovery from the passage of an iron bar through the head.djvu/12
Simple enquiry, whats the symbol charcter?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:28, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I would hazard the first one is a lowercase Greek XI (&xi;=&amp;xi;) and the following one is a "Prescription Take" (unicode &#8478;=&amp;#8478;)? Check with a medico: is Hazmat2 around for example? AuFCL (talk) 08:45, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * On further reflection I wonder if it is an inverted (worse unusual) alchemical symbol for arsenic? Have a look here and see what you think. If so I have no idea how to represent it short of taking an image. AuFCL (talk) 09:05, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It is ℥ (Apothecaries' ounce); it is followed by xvi (16); therefore it has to be some unit of measurement. Hrishikes (talk) 14:16, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Genius! (unicode &#8485;=&amp;#8485; is close to code point 8488 "black-letter capital Z" (&#8488;) which looks somewhat similar.) AuFCL (talk) 18:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Translations of UNESCO comics into other languages
Hi all

I am asking this specifically for a set of comics that UNESCO has produced but I think this can easily applied to many other publications.

UNESCO have released 4 comic books in a series called Women in African History, the first 2 are available on Wikimedia Commons here. The comics are available under CC-BY-SA and the artwork created specially for the publications, they are available in a few other languages which I will upload soon.

They are interested in creating new language versions of the books with the Wikimedia community, what would be the best way of going about this on Wikimedia projects? I am assuming Wikisource or possibly Wikibooks would work best. It would be really nice to find a way to translate the speech bubbles, I have the source InDesign files available.

Thanks

Mrjohncummings (talk) 14:35, 14 September 2015 (UTC)


 * We host any published works that are in the public domain as per the policy What Wikisource Includes, including published translations in the public domain. With regard to foreign language works in the public domain, we have the Translation: namespace, and information about those works is based on the aforementioned policy, and further supported by information at Translations. In short, it sounds like a yes, and those works would be hosted in the Translation namespace. If they are images at Commons, we can provide a side-by-side location to translate the texts in the Page: namespace, and then transclude the works to the Translation namespace for presentation. — billinghurst  sDrewth  15:08, 14 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi billinghurst


 * Thanks very much for your reply, I will upload the other language versions and the images to Commons and then get back to you. Mrjohncummings (talk) 16:08, 14 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Not sure how you have these, djvu files or pdf files work best, and if you have them that way then please use the book template at Commons, as that will allow us to inhale the metadata into our Index: ns templates. If it is groupings of individual components, that will take a little construction to achieve. Thanks. 01:50, 15 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I've uploaded all the artwork files for the first book here on Commons and also the pdf of the book (the French and Spanish versions of the book are in the same category). Thanks John Cummings (talk) 15:56, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Help Please
6.34 Watchlist

Somehow I have lost visual contact with messages from my "watchlist". I did it when tinkering with one of the gadgets or something about the watchlist. I had been working on manually deleting some of my many accumulations under watchlist. But I didn't want to delete them all. When now I look at manual editing of the watchlist I see what I did not lose but nothing shows on the watchlist as it used to -- nothing is showing. This what I get when trying a new gadget or working on the raw watchlist. When something is working well I should not try to make something on WS to make things better. Does anyone know how to see my watchlist as I once did again? It shows the option of 1 hour, 2, 3,4 and so forth. I had months worth showing and nw - Nothing, not even edits I did yesterday. Please assist if you know how. I am working of John Cassell's Illustrated History of England vol.1 of 9 vols. Thank you, —Maury (talk) 19:37, 13 September 2015 (UTC)


 * UGH! —Maury (talk) 02:50, 14 September 2015 (UTC)


 * How do I get out of the following area? —Maury (talk) 02:55, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Watchlist For William Maury Morris II (View relevant changes | View and edit watchlist | Edit raw watchlist | Clear the watchlist)

Wikidata now has sufficient author data in and interwiki links for us to deprecate manually adding local parameters for Wikipedia, Wikiquote, Commons, Wikinews, Wikibooks and Wikivoyage in our Author: namespace template. Bots will clean up our data. Please report any issues to, and ask your questions at Wikisource:Scriptorium. Thanks. [dismiss]

You have 9,206 pages on your watchlist (excluding talk pages). Pages that have been changed since you last visited them are shown in bold.

Watchlist options Legend:

N This edit created a new page (also see list of new pages) m This is a minor edit b This edit was performed by a bot !   This edit has not yet been patrolled D Wikidata edit (±123)   The page size changed by this number of bytes

Below are the last 0 changes in the last 720 hours, as of September 13, 2015, 21:52. Show last 1 | 2 | 6 | 12 hours 1 | 3 | 7 | 30 days Hide minor edits | Hide bots | Hide anonymous users | Hide registered users | Hide my edits | Show patrolled edits | Show Wikidata

Namespace: Invert selection Associated namespace

No changes during the given period matching these criteria.

—Maury (talk) 16:48, 14 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Maury. Best I can suggest is that have mis-edited, and you need to get back to the raw form Special:EditWatchlist/raw and to fix it. It is still there (number of pages) but it is broken somehow with your edits. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:57, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Author death date
https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=2601:646:8F01:84FF:E9B2:B6FB:8740:50EE

Beatrix potter died in 1943? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:13, 19 September 2015 (UTC)


 * And this IP's been making a nusiance of themselves on frwiki as well..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:26, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

FI and image size
Can someone explain to me, in layman's terms, how sizing works with FI? An image set at 40% on an index pg is smaller than the image transcluded into the Main... Is it respective of the page it is viewed on? So if someone looks at the MS image on a mobile device, can I assume that the image will take up 40% of their device width? Or is that not how it works? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:44, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Presumably you meant to write Page: not Index:? In which case was it this to which you were referring? uses the width of the enclosing div to establish 100% and bear in mind this is influenced by the chosen Display Option as well as your viewing device size. Thus 40% looks a lot bigger in Display Option/Layout 1 than it does in /Layout 2. Was this what you wanted to know? AuFCL (talk) 12:07, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
 * This part I can't grasp: " uses the width of the enclosing div to establish 100% ... this is influenced by the chosen Display Option as well as your viewing device size." What do you mean—in other words maybe. Sorry! Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:55, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
 * If a picture:
 * —is worth a thousand words? AuFCL (talk) 21:58, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
 * To help me out a bit more, and to answer a previous question: Set at 40%, eg., does the image width then take up 40% of the width of the page of whatever device it is displayed on? Looking at your images above, is it then relative to the size of the device? Is that how it works? Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:09, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Roughly?: Yes. Precisely?: No. Lets go with sort-of "yes" as good enough for government work. Now go ask somebody else; I don't want to play this particular game any more.AuFCL (talk) 01:07, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

FI was meant to be the rendering "opposite" of the traditional "File:...." statement that forced a specific width for either a floated or thumbnailed image. If you use it with a percentage, that percentage is computed against the containing block the template is placed on (or placed within). If this pic is the one in question (a full page image in print) you want to set the width in FI to mimic the original in your digital transcription -- so the width in that instance should reflect the transcribed equivalent of a "full page pic" ~90% to ~100%. FIS is for inline images, both wrapped by content or shares a page with text above, below, in between etc.. Better? -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:47, 27 September 2015 (UTC)


 * To say it as non-technical as I can: webpage layout works by nesting (invisible) boxes inside boxes inside boxes. Your 40% FI takes up 40% of the width of whatever box it is put inside. Often, the box it is inside will be the width of the device, so the FI will take up 40% of the width of the device. However, if the FI is placed inside a table cell, as above, it will take up 40% of the width of the table cell. If it is placed within one of our message boxes or headers etc, it will take up 40% of the width of that. Hesperian 01:52, 27 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Government schooling prepares you for government work. A teacher's exasperation with answering repeated questions is always met with the frustration of a well-intended student for having to ask the questions in the first place. I appreciate the explanations—general to technical. I think I have a better grasp of it now, for my purposes, so I will nod my head and pray I pass the exam! Thanks for playing! ;) Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:41, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Unclear copyrights' status
Hi Wikisource, I was looking at a text about Galileo. On the opening page it stated that the text was in the public domain. After I clicked and entered the first chapter, on the bottom it was written that it's under the Creative Commons license. Could you help me figure out what's the copyrights' status of the work? Elad189 (talk) 08:34, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The work is licenced as which puts it in the public domain in the United States and in the United Kingdom. What its copyright status is in your country you will need to check based on the information available. The licence at the bottom of the page is the site licence, about all the contributions, and talks about how you can utilise the version of the work that we have produced from the original. Copyright has levels of complexity and each time there is a new production there is a new version of copyright to aspects. In short, the original work and our rendition have different copyrights, and if you are taking a version from here, you have a level of responsibility to comply with our version per the CC licence. — billinghurst  sDrewth  10:57, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

List of Illustrations formatting
Can someone please take a look at the two pages beginning here and bring them together better (see Mainspace rendering) while also hiding (noincluding) the word "PAGE" on the second page. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:31, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * This what you wanted? AuFCL (talk) 23:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yup! Thanks much, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:53, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Advance editor toolbar disappears occasionally
Moved from the Scriptorium

Today's update again killed the advanced editor bar. I am missing the options of opening or closing the header. Sorry Londonjackbooks, I deleted the images a bit too early. — Ineuw talk 23:42, 30 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Just to prove (to myself as well) that I wasn't hallucinating, This image in the top part shows that the toolbar missing, and I managed to bring it back after repeated closing and re-opening the page.— Ineuw talk 07:26, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I've found this problem as well, sometimes (although I've not seen it with that particular button, but then I never use that one so mightn't have noticed). It may have something to do with the order in which JS files are loaded—in that, the toolbar buttons that are being loaded by external scripts (from wmflabs) sometimes don't load. Perhaps just because they haven't loaded by the time the toolbar starts letting other scripts add themselves to it? But no, you're not hallucinating! :) &mdash; Sam Wilson ( Talk &bull; Contribs ) &hellip; 01:32, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments. Feel much relieved. — Ineuw talk 02:18, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Alignment of poems using braces
Can someone please take a look at the formatting for the following poems (which use braces), and perhaps adjust the formatting so that the alignment is the same for each line:


 * Ad Nepotem
 * In Maximum
 * Ad Olum

...and there are currently small spaces between the pages of the TOC (evident in the Main), if someone could take a look at my formatting and see what might fix that. Thank you! Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:21, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The spacing-with-braces difficulty arises from using a table. The table will necessarily have a spacing around it that cannot be controlled for. When using a table, you are at the mercy of whatever the software and browser decide to do.


 * For the table of contents, the extra line spacing comes from starting a new table on each page. What you need is a table that spans several pages, so that the fomatting is consistent across the whole. You can accomplish this by opening the second (and third, etc.) pages of the table in the header, and using nop (on that page and at the bottom of the previous one) to ensure that the new table row starts on a fresh line for the software. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:49, 3 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks; I'll try to tweak the TOC when I get a chance. For the alignment, I used tables for the rest of the poem sections, and it helped. I remembered I had done similarly before. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:38, 4 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I'll have to look into splitting a table between two pages for In Maximum; there is an unwanted line break betw. pages... but I'm done for the night... Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:46, 4 October 2015 (UTC)


 * As you had not fully migrated In Maximum I've used it as an experiment for an alternate solution to your unwanted-indent on brace lines problem. If you do not like the result then of course proceed with making it like the others. On Firefox all approaches leave some degree of unwanted padding above and below the brace line (so it stands out like a new paragraph. I can reduce this by playing around with padding and margins but not cleanly eliminate it.) Oh and after a number of idiotic typos I think the TOC transclusion is now O.K. Back to bed. AuFCL (talk) 06:23, 4 October 2015 (UTC)


 * It looks great in Chrome, thank you. And thanks for the TOC formatting additions as well. All appreciated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:27, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Page:The Rhind Mathematical Papyrus, Volume I.pdf/48
Herio glyph doesn't seem to inline.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:29, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 * You need to enclose the whole paragraph in another tag in addition to the one around the hieroglyphs. Abjiklɐm (tɐlk) 18:24, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

2835 Mayfair by Frank Robertson
Any help in acquiring this book: Hathi link is greatly appreciated! Cheeers, Captain Nemo (talk) 09:58, 11 October 2015 (UTC).


 * Available in DLI: http://dli.serc.iisc.ernet.in/handle/2015/207481 Hrishikes (talk) 12:48, 11 October 2015 (UTC)


 * this is great, thank you a lot! Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 22:06, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Pleas help format a book from year 1625
Hello! Could someone help me with 17th century formatting?

Hakluytus Posthumus or Purchas His Pilgrimes is a 1906 reprint of a 1625 edition of a compendium of travel literature. It has multiple sidenotes, and I could not figure out how to properly reproduce them. My unsuccessful attempts at formatting are at Hakluytus Posthumus or Purchas His Pilgrimes/Volume 12/Book 2/Chapter 7.

TIA, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 20:54, 27 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I have converted outside R to outside RL, on the first Page: ns page, so that they are all pushed to the left and stop the sawtooth effect. As per the formatting notes for these templates I have put in a left margin. Though noting that the template only works well in Layout 1, and we still need to fix others. You can always try the sidenotes templates in the main namespace if that is your preference. — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:22, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks billinghurst, it looks great now!
 * Sidenotes templates in the main namespace? What is that? BR, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 06:07, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

center last line of justified text
Looking for the last line of the justified text on this page to be centered. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:09, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * CSS attributes  are your friends. The -moz variant is required for Mozilla browsers which currently ignore the "standard" directive (and must come earlier in the style list than "text-align-last".) AuFCL (talk) 19:56, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Renders correctly in some browsers, but not others, apparently... Good to go in IE; last line is not centered in Chrome. But I won't sweat it! Thanks much! Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:01, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Oops. However according to this there might yet be a sort-of answer. Does 'Experimental Web Platform Features' ring any bells? Is this an option you can (easily) enable on Chrome? AuFCL (talk) 20:21, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Looked around customization and didn't find anything... Followed the link in the thread, but was met with a warning that "these experiments may bite." Best to leave my browser setting as is. I am content to know that the formatting is correct at any rate. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:34, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I simply don't think that it is really worth overly fussing, publisher artefact! can we apply the similar line-spacing formatting with that used in smaller block? Thx.  — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:57, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
 * My guess is (not being able to speak intelligently about the formatting) the way it is currently formatted is sufficient. But I am not well versed in code. You could use smaller block, but what is applied currently seems to work adequately (with "font-size:smaller"). Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:03, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Except the community made a decision a while ago to not use "font-size:smaller" and instead went to a modified graduation in its sizing templates as shown at Template:Smaller/doc. Plus the smaller block has a tighter line spacing, more replicating the work.
 * To be pedantic beyond the call &c. font-size:smaller works out at 11px on this browser; and font-size:83% (as lifted from smaller/doc) is 11.6167px. To be practical about this I cannot tell the difference and besides who knows what the original font-setter intended or cared? (For further reference please provide a link if you can to the former agreement as it might be worthy of broader (or even re-)propagation.) AuFCL (talk) 02:02, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Problem validating a page
Greetings folks, I am extremely new here so I could really use some help with a problem. I recently tried to validate a page here and when I checked the Validation radio button and hit enter it changed some formatting that's breaking the display. Even when I try to revert it the change is still there. Is this a known problem? Something I am doing wrong? Reguyla (talk) 00:28, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Well you rather chose the deep end of the pool to dive into. There is a lot going on here, starting with the fact this page is in the middle of a table which continues on from prior pages and continues on to the next ones as well (See Help:Page_breaks for some background.) And with section marks inclusive no less (I would lose them straight away as "D20" is not referred to in the transclusion at The list of geographical coordinates of points of the Indonesian archipelagic baselines.) How about you re-try validating from this point forward and see how you go? AuFCL (talk) 00:46, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and in fairness your right that might have been a rather poor choice to start with. I just randomly scanned through and saw that one perfectly matched the page so I figured I would validate. Reguyla (talk) 01:15, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok, so when I just looked the option to Validate isn't even there. Reguyla (talk) 01:18, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Reguyla, the option to validate disappeared because you can't validate a page that you yourself proofread. When you undid your validation, you demoted the page to proofread status, and thus the system decided that you are the proofreader of the page! It's a known bug that no-one cares to fix. Hesperian 04:02, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * That last suggestion (good general point as it is) doesn't quite work in this case. I had made a small edit post Reguyla's reversion, so why was he not free to validate based upon the fact I was the prior editor? Do I have to revert to the sacrifice theory after all? AuFCL (talk) 04:27, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * If you edit a page and change its status, your user name is recorded and you become the "privileged" user who cannot validate. If you edit a page and explicitly reiterate the current status by clicking its status button, your user name is recorded and you become the "privileged" user who cannot validate. If you edit a page and do neither of these things, your name is not recorded and the incumbent "privileged" user remains so. Hesperian 04:39, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Much clearer now. AuFCL (talk) 05:53, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * So much for trying to give you a practice run. Sometimes the elder gods of ProofreadPage require the sacrifice of small furry beasts to placate them. In other words I have no idea at all why this page was giving you grief. Suggest you carry on with another page and come back here next time trouble strikes? AuFCL (talk) 02:15, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Wow thanks for all the help and sorry for the inconvenience but if its any consolation I learned a lot from that "mistake". Thanks for being patient with me, next time I'll try and pick something easier. :-)Reguyla (talk) 11:08, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Author:Thomas Nashe?
At Page:Moll Flanders (1906 edition).djvu/15, we have mention of "Richard Nash's Jack Wilton". Is this more likely to be Author:Thomas Nashe's The Unfortunate Traveller? refer http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21338/21338-h/21338-h.htm. Or are they different authors and titles entirely? Moondyne (talk) 10:26, 17 October 2015 (UTC)


 * See sl. no. 10 of the list of works by the subject near the end of Nash, Thomas (1567-1601) (DNB00). Hrishikes (talk) 12:42, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
 * But is Richard and Thomas the same person? Moondyne (talk) 09:36, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * They were relatives. See here. Hrishikes (talk) 10:16, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Help with formatting verse number
Hi everyone. I would like to float verse number 24 to the left as it is but I would like to have a space between the verse and the text like verse 23.

And Lamech saith to his wives:—

Thanks for any help. Jpez (talk) 08:28, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

And Lamech saith to his wives:—

Hrishikes (talk) 13:53, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the help but I would prefer to use the template if possible since that's what I've been using from the start of the book, and it also provides chapter and verse anchoring. Jpez (talk) 05:48, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * How is it then?

And Lamech saith to his wives:—


 * Adah and Zillah, hear my voice;
 * Wives of Lamech, give ear to my saying;
 * For a man I have slain for my wound,
 * Even a young man for my hurt;

For sevenfold is required for Cain,
 * And for Lamech seventy and sevenfold.'

Hrishikes (talk) 06:18, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

And Lamech saith to his wives:—
 * Pretty ugly but short of altering verse to provide some kind of right-padding control: might do:


 * The "ideal" solution would be (yes even uglier!): which looks like: <span style="color:#2E8B57;float:left; text-align:right; margin-left:-4em; width:4em; padding-right:0.5em;" id="4:23">23 And Lamech saith to his wives:—


 * AuFCL (talk) 06:25, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Your solution takes the first verse way beyond the left margin and is out of line for some reason. Your solution looks fine, but.... Any chance we can alter the verse template so you can specify how many em to the left the verse number would be? The book the verses are from is this Index:The Holy Bible (YLT).djvu which is a bible translation which means I will be needing to use this formatting a lot. Also it would be an easier and neater solution for other people that are helping to transcribe. Thanks for all the help again! Jpez (talk) 14:13, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The verse template is protected; experimentation not allowed, other than by the big guns. :-) Anyway, editing the template is not much required for your purpose. If you use a space code (nbsp, emsp, ensp, thinsp) or the gap template with width parameter just after the verse number in the verse template, that should produce the desired result. Hrishikes (talk) 01:33, 20 October 2015 (UTC)


 * But you can make a copy of the template, and play around with that. If you devise a correctly working advanced replacement, we could then move it over the older one. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:40, 20 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I always wanted to create or edit a template but I never knew how to, but I've been looking at the source and have a rough idea now. I didn't know that the template was protected and I'd like to make a copy and play around with it when I have the time. I'll ask for help if I need any, it will be a good learning experience. Again thanks for all the Help! Jpez (talk) 04:35, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Hebrew on Page:Takkanot Ezra.djvu/2
Could someone kindly check if the Hebrew on Page:Takkanot Ezra.djvu/2 is correct? Thank you. Abjiklɐm (tɐlk) 23:52, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Basic Law of the Federal Republic of Germany (Wikisource)
I commented on the Talk page of Basic Law of the Federal Republic of Germany (Wikisource) ages ago about the poor translation quality, and also whether it was worth having the article at all, given that an official copy in English existed at the www.bundestag.de website. In addition, the topic was incomplete, with only 19 of 140-some articles translated. All this time later, and no change. So I slurped the official version, dropped extraneous junk from the original format, wikified the 140 article titles into section headers, and published it. What now, does it get proofread or something? Mathglot (talk) 06:38, 24 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Just a question: would it not be advisable to create an index page for the original published document and move the wikitext to the Page namespace? Since it is my understanding that this is the preferred way to host documents, I was just wondering if this is something we would want to do in this case. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:46, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

War Diary of the 8th Field Regiment in WO 169/1447
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:World_War_II_in_North_Africa I uploaded a pdf and photographs here of the original document in the National Archives from War Diary of the 8th Field Regiment in WO 169/1447. Someone suggested I upload them here too, how do I do that? Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 16:40, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
 * there is no need to upload the files here once they are uploaded at Commons. It may be that they were suggesting that the document could be set up to be transcribed and reproduced like many of our other works. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:02, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I have also double-checked your uploads to Commons and don't see the war diary there. Can you give a specific link to the file (prepend the link with a colon) and we can give an opinion on what might be possible. Oh I see that you have deleted the pdf file, so maybe the request is redundant. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:05, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Reliability/validity of Franco-German Armistice
Please see Talk:Franco-German Armistice for a question on the reliability of the content at Franco-German Armistice. In brief, can this document be trusted? Is it a translation by an editor? Mathglot (talk) 02:33, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Appears to have been answered in situ — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:36, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

us federal case law
im trying to find case federal case law dealing with bank robbery and indentification is there any filter I can use to narrow my search184.53.33.5 22:44, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Nope, and I doubt that there is much that is particularly there as the addition of criminal or individual cases of lower courts are unlikely to have been added. — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:56, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Author Illustration
Hello. How do I get rid of the image on this author page Author:John Doughty and also the sister project links. The image and links are for a different John Doughty than the author. Jpez (talk) 08:25, 29 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I undid that connection at Wikidata.
 * And created a new one. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 11:27, 29 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Jpez (talk) 12:59, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Searching for a project
In the past, I've been able to put, in the search box, Index:[name] or part of name, and the system started to suggest possibilities that I may be interested in. Starting today, that no longer works. To have to go to category:index (whatever status) and then find what I want does not seem to be quite right. Any ideas? Humbug26 (talk) 02:18, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Typeahead function still works for me. Local slowness for you? — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:28, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think I have local slowness. When I type in category:index, I immediately get the list to choose from. On further checking, I've found when I type in index:[beginning letter], I get no results with letters C,D,E,H,I,J,K,M,Q,U,V,W,X,Y,Z. I get one result only with letters A,B,F,G,L,N. I get from 2 to 10 results with letters O,P,R,S,T. This is way too odd. It's almost like the search function is linked to only those projects that only certain people have worked on.(?) I can give you the list of 36 titles I see, either here or in an email if you are in any way interested. Otherwise I'll chalk this reduction in capability as non-essential and find the projects I'm working on the long way around. Humbug26 (talk) 16:59, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Typeahead for me is not problematic in any sense. Typing  pops up instant choices for me. — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:59, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
 * This feature is once again working for me. Thank you Billinghurst for your time in checking this. Ghosts/gremlins in the machine? Humbug26 (talk) 18:11, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

technical glitch in Index:1917 Dubliners by James Joyce.djvu
Pages 99 and 102 are red color, but they were proofread. --Outlier59 (talk) 20:02, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Happening with works I am proofreading as well. Red at the Index, yellow at the Page. I have been ignoring it, but curious about the glitch. Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:05, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It also shows red on the proofreading status in namespace Dubliners/A Little Cloud --Outlier59 (talk) 20:48, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
 * This happens from time to time, and isn't limited to this work. Wait a few days, make a dummy edit, and all will be corrected unless there is yet another problem in some software change that's been pushed through, as sometimes happens. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:56, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Null edit the page: ns pages, and it will flow through to the index: page. Not sure why it is happening, and I have seen it on occasions, but not been able to reliably reproduce the beast. Next month after validation month when I am back on fresh edits, rather than last step proofing I may trip over the correct sequence to failure. — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:56, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Dotted toc help
I don't usually work with the dotted TOC page listing template, so I am not sure why alignment is acting squirrely here. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:52, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
 * My (biased) comment is don't. It is hard to problem solve and doesn't play well in all epubs, or mobile view, however, many persist with it. — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:53, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay. I'll convert it. Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:57, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

pasting missing pages into Index:Narratives of the mission of George Bogle to Tibet.djvu
Hello!

I uploaded the book in the subj to Wikimedia, to find that both copies from archive.org have missing pages. I wrote about my problem in Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2015 and got a valuable lead:

''missing pages can be extracted from copies at Digital Library of India: 1, 2. Hrishikes (talk) 12:39, 27 August 2015 (UTC)''

Since then, user:ShakespeareFan00 found duplicate pages. However, it seems I am missing the required software and experience to fix this problem with the use of Digital Library of India files. Please help. TIA, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 21:01, 30 October 2015 (UTC)


 * One of the IA copies originated from a Google Books scan. Whenever one of those are "bad", it's best to go back and find the original Google Books version to see if that has the defects or if they were introduced later by the IA conversion process. In this case; is this copy any more complete and/or without duplicates? If so, you can download it from Google Books and upload it anew on IA for a fresh conversion to .DjVu -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:29, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh. Thanks. This is how one finds out Google books are fully accessible if you use proxies. I had thought they were removed from laymen's free access globally. --Tar-ba-gan (talk) 00:06, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

An old translation missing chapter numbering
Hello! I am in need of advice. There is this book originally by a Russian author, and its translation Index:Oblomov (1915 English translation).djvu misses chapter numbers. I. e. original (Russian) Part I has 11 chapters, and translated (English) Part I has 5 chapters (actually chapters 5 to 11 of the original make up a lengthy Chapter 5 of the translation).

This would not have bothered me much, where it not for a specific chapter in the book, Chapter 9, that is, for certain reasons, paid special attention in Russian curriculum (other than that, the novel is enormous for its concise plot, and hardly any other part has to be read in full; people in a World Literature dept may rather dwell on a newer translation altogether)

So I am wondering how valid may the idea be, to break up Chapter 5 into proper Chapters 5-11 as in the original edition (with separate pages for them).

TIA, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 15:44, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Army Board for Correction of Military Records
Is a case file about a deceased soldier a valid uploads I don't have the file in question, but another, even less-experienced than I, editor on Wikipedia does.

The subject is Garlin Murl Conner.

Jim in Georgia Contribs  Talk  19:50, 8 November 2015 (UTC)


 * This is not a simple yes/no answer. The guidance is What Wikisource includes. It would help to know the specific record in question to give a specific answer, for a general question, it can only be a general answer. To the detail ...
 * Image files generally take place at Commons, if possible, as that is the preferred repository for files so they can be used cross-wiki. Their scope is educational, and copyright, and file type.
 * If it fails for upload there, then we can take an upload here if it meets our guidance for inclusion and copyright.
 * We do take historical records here, though our scope is that the person is notable at a wikipedia, or they are an author at this site. As this is a person at enWP that would generally be suitable, though provisos follow.
 * We don't take excerpts, so the record would need to be complete.


 * So my questions
 * For which country is the record? Is it in the public domain? [Presuming USA, then the answers to these are yes]
 * What format would the file of the document record?
 * Is the case file complete? Is it one document or a series of documents?
 * My guess is that we are talking document(s) that fall under WikiProject NARA and that being the case we would call upon our expert in those records to assist. — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:13, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Summaries
To Whom It May Concern,

How do I find and access the Table of Contents to WikiSummaries?

I was reading in the External Links of the Wikipedia article, "The Prophet," [A book written by Kahlil Gibran] and on the last entry listed was a reference to, "WikiSummaries." I an unable to find any listing or reference to, "WikiSummaries," in the Home Page or the left-hand side of the Home Page, at the bottom of the Home Page, or at the bottom of where the, "www.wikipedia.org," URL leads to (where there is a listing for the Wiktionary, Wikibooks, Wikisources, etc.).

Thank you, in advance for any assistance on this manner.

Respectfully,

S.M.A.

Well, that was quick! Thank you, who ever you are for the help. Maybe I should also ask why, "WikiSummaries is not listed at the bottom of the URL, "www.wikipedia.org" page with all of the other wonderful resources available at, or associated with Wikipedia?!

Respectfully,

S.M.A.


 * wikisummaries.org is not a WikiMedia project; it is not affiliated with Wikipedia or Wikisource, and that is why it is not listed with WikiMedia's projects. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:22, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Farinelli
(moving question, from user talk page, that is better addressed to the community)

Hello

I have just found an interesting article on famous castrato singer Farinelli in The Westminster Magazine of 1777. I have proofread the text against the scan linked. I do know how to create a new page here and where most appropriately place this page. So I have now included this page in my personal area only. Check this link please. As you will see, I have included some links. Actually I wanted to link to the appropriate wikipedia entry, but obviously the links here work differently. Secondly, it seems I have done something wrong when inserting the header that was suggested when I just keyed in the plain text. Now it looks like a graphic. I would be grateful if you could advise me on this and also on how to include the that I have uploaded also on wikimedia. Thanks for your help.

In connection with that, I wish to ask if the English wikisource, just as the German counterpart, also collects link lists to digital versions available on different websites (Google Books, hathitrust, archive.org or individual libraries) for individual volumes of encyclopedias or journals, e.g. for The Westminster Magazine. I find that very useful since the libraries usually only link what is available digitally either with them directly or - in Germany eg. with the Munich State Library, which, however, is not the most comprehensive resource. --Haendelfan (talk) 03:46, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe you can also help with the two unclear readings (first of the amount of money Farinelli earned (very unclear in the scan and for me unfamiliar what it might mean) and with whom Jupiter is linked in the text (I read lö which is absolutely no English and does not ring a bell with me. Or you can help me as to where to post such questions for community help.--Haendelfan (talk) 04:05, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * "Jupiter and Io" (it has its own entry on enWP) is a painting by Correggio.
 * I checked the scan referenced (which uses lower-case trailing "l"; not "£" as transcribed) and bearing in mind a couple of paragraphs later the King of Spain awarded Farinelli "a pension of 1400 piastres, or 3150 l. per ann. and a coach and"&hellip; I would expect the damaged ("50.o l.") value to have originally read "5000 l." (This was a recognised period alternate form to use of a leading "£": both being obscurely derived from the initial letter of the Roman pound or "Libra.")
 * I would recommend uploading at the very least the PDF at Google Books containing raw page scans to Commons before proceeding too much further unless of course it or an equivalent is already there. Once that is done an Index: page may be created locally. AuFCL (talk) 12:00, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your replies and help in the reading of the two unclear references. In bearing in mind that texts should also be understandable today, is it common then to indicate that the l stands for pounds? Since for the time being there are not any more articles from the Westminster Magazine, I assume I let the article rest fro some time. I was wondering whether it would be fair to create a page for Farinelli and collect there papers on him as different as the sources may be in the end. The same could then be done for Senesino, a similarly well-known castrato singer in London through his collaboration with Handel, on whom there is an article two pages before the Farinelli article discussed here.--Haendelfan (talk) 11:35, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * PS: If someone of you could have a look at the page in its present state? Something seems to have gone wrong with the title template. I copied it, but it would then only show as picture. Now that I keyed in everything again by hand, only half of it has been understood, the other half has not. I would appreciate it if someone could fix it. Maybe also there is something like a "board of contributors" especially for Music? They might know best how to proceed or where to put stories on indivual singers. Thanks. And sorry for taking your time. It is my first contribution of a raw text.--Haendelfan (talk) 17:32, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I am sure you will want to modify it further but I have changed the header on your page enough for it to become functional again (and also removed a duplicate as well.) With regards the £/l. question, my personal preference would be not to annotate it on the reasoning that the sort of reader who is interested in a 1777 work would be aware of the convention, and if not their own curiosity ought to shortly rectify the situation. I expect others will disagree. Finally a question for yourself: "Benutzer:"? Did you not mean "User:"? You might consider moving the page. AuFCL (talk) 21:17, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * @AuFCL Thank you very much for your help in amending the page. Actually I now consider it ready and have posted it to Anecdotes on Farinelli (from The Westminster Magazine 1777). For the moment I will leave the comment on the l for £, since I also assume that the English source page will not only be used by English natives and those who are familiar with 17th- or 18th-century abbreviations or different spellings. (For instance I would also suggest to include comments if the spelling or a word or a name is very much different from the "usual" one, i.e. the one today preferred.--Haendelfan (talk) 22:26, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * @all who contributed to this discussion: Thank you very much for your welcome here and your comments. I have now opened a page Singers in baroque opera which I plan as a collecting page for works on all singers that may be going to be published here. In this page only the names of the singers are intended to be mentioned / listed - leading the reader to another head-page on each of the singers that are going to be included. In the case of Farinelli this is the page of the same name Farinelli. Since it is his stage name, but the more well-known (or only known one), his native name is only mentioned in brackets. The Farinelli page then includes the Anecdotes on Farinelli (from The Westminster Magazine 1777), the first and hitherto only source in this collection of pages. Still I hope, my "plan" for head-pages, similar to the categories in wiki-commons, finds your approval and/or the approval of those particularly dedicated to work in music. Of course the singer's name pages like Farinelli or Senesino can also be included in a general head-page collecting pages on singers, if such exists. And finally: if later more articles from "The Westminster Magazine" are going to be included in wikisource, the article Anecdotes on Farinelli (from The Westminster Magazine 1777) can be included in the appropriate headpage also. For the moment, it might be too early for that, since only two pages in one volume of the magazine are included in wikisource. One last word: please consider I am German and English is only a second language for me, so if there are mistakes in my English, I kindly ask you to tolerate them - and to correct them if such should be included in comments. Thank you.--Haendelfan (talk) 22:23, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Singers in baroque opera should be a Portal, see Help:Portals.— Mpaa (talk) 23:03, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

missing page image
This page has the text layer, but is missing the image in both read and edit views. Cleared all caches but to no avail. Can someone please look at it? Thanks.— Ineuw talk 20:37, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Works for we, with no action ... If you make a null edit? No effect?— Mpaa (talk) 23:03, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It now works for me as well. Thanks — Ineuw talk 02:33, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Montazur Rahman Akbar
i want to add something details about Montazur Rahman Akbar.
 * What books or articles has he written in English? --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:27, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Problem with *** template
This template has a line height problem which makes it unusable in a paragraph/poem. Would it be possible to correct it?

<poem style="display:table; line-height:130%; font-size:90%; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto; width:auto;"> Of youths and maidens bounding hand in hand.

Now all at once they rise, at once descend, •••••••••• With well-taught feet; now shape in oblique ways Confus'dly regular the moving maze; Now forth at once, too swift for sight, they spring, And undistinguished blend the flying ring: So whirls a wheel in giddy circle tost, And rapid as it runs the single spokes are lost."

For comparison, the first row is the template, and the second is manually created. On reading the template code, they ought to be the same. — Ineuw talk 04:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * The template is designed wrap its contents within a centered div block by default. Introducing this block level div element within an existing block level element (a paragraph tag in poem's container) causes the auto insertion of a new paragraph start at new line start. Plus your second example using gap does not have this centered div container but its so "thin" width wise you'd never notice the difference either way.

<poem style="display:table; line-height:130%; font-size:90%; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto; width:auto;"> Of youths and maidens bounding hand in hand. •••••••••• Now all at once they rise, at once descend, •••••••••• With well-taught feet; now shape in oblique ways Confus'dly regular the moving maze; Now forth at once, too swift for sight, they spring, And undistinguished blend the flying ring: So whirls a wheel in giddy circle tost, And rapid as it runs the single spokes are lost."


 * using loop (above) "seems" to work fwiw... -- George Orwell III (talk) 05:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Basically wot 'e said. If you want to express the same outcome in more 'traditional' form try:

<poem style="display:table; line-height:130%; font-size:90%; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto; width:auto;"> Of youths and maidens bounding hand in hand. Now all at once they rise, at once descend, •••••••••• With well-taught feet; now shape in oblique ways Confus'dly regular the moving maze; Now forth at once, too swift for sight, they spring, And undistinguished blend the flying ring: So whirls a wheel in giddy circle tost, And rapid as it runs the single spokes are lost."
 * —i.e. just let the center buried within provide the new-line before "Now all at once..." AuFCL (talk) 05:58, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * and my thanks. I got it.— Ineuw talk 09:23, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Side-by-side view image is disappeared for some index file
There is index file in Ukrainian Wikisources (but it looks like it is common problem). When I trying create / edit any page I do not see page thumbnail. Div that should containing it just empty (I looked code). It's very strange because thumbnail is existing in another tab. I've tried purge according file, purge index, purge page, uploaded updated version of file (with OCR) but div still did not have image. Also I see thumbnails in other indexes. What it could be? Artem.komisarenko (talk) 15:55, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I do not know the cause, but this has been happening with PDF files lately. I've noticed it in several PDF files here as well. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:30, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I've had it happen recently on DjVu files as well. I find that if I work on another page and then come back and open the problem page in a new tab that it eventually behaves. A simple refresh and cache clearing don't seem to make any difference. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:41, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Also posted here. Artem.komisarenko (talk) 08:16, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * scan resolution in edit mode was set to 0. I blanked that entry box and it seems to be working fine now. Jpez (talk) 09:38, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * If there is a reproducible testcase which is "still broken", a link is very welcome. Also wondering how recent the upload is and if it's maybe not "just" the image scalers being under high load and hence taking a bit longer. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:09, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Here you go I broke this for you Index:The Hare.djvu, this is a book I've added. I set scan resolution in edit mode to 0 when it ought to have been blank. This has happened before, is it possible to have a lower limit in this entry to stop the scan pages dissapearing entirely? Jpez (talk) 11:06, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Working for me, seems Jpez resolved it. the width value would generally not be set (leave it empty). About the only time that you would set it was when you have a very large image that you are needing to downsize. — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:12, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Working for me also. Big thanks. It was really annoyed. Artem.komisarenko (talk) 11:56, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Supressing a clef in a Score block...
Page:A Voyage in Space (1913).djvu/293 - How do I supress the clef?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:32, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Figured it out.... Hesperian 10:45, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Page:Compendium of US Copyright Office Practices (1973).pdf/12
Not an immediate priority but something's iffy with numbered/s given that the headers on pages using don't expand the full width of the page like the templated divs do. Someone needs to take a sledgehammer to that template so it doesn't have the glitch. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:02, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Hang on, you are criticising an undocumented template that is all your own work? Yes I can see several flaws but only you can determine which misbehaviours are important to your own uses and which are genuine errors. For starters how about we start by noting that leaving empty generates a stand-alone CSS fragment   which is kind of pointless? (And may be pertinent to your posed question.) AuFCL (talk) 21:26, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Moreover; note the lack of wrapping parenthesis for any of the list-item's markers (or bullet types) through out all the sections and subdivisions being outlined that you'd normally find within a formal publication of most typical U.S. government works - That probably means you could have used plain old OL & LI tags for your template and avoid all this drama (still its a rare example of an 'official government document' that's posing as an inter-office 'cheat sheet' if I do say so myself :) -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:20, 13 December 2015 (UTC)


 * And following some inital concerns, purging the page over to a tweaked version of the template seems to have improved mattters, ( the inherit clause wasn't in the original!). Now resolved, Thanks.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:55, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
 * With respect the call to still generates duff CSS viz:
 * —Note the standalone  and  ?
 * Perhaps instead of:
 * —you may really have meant:
 * —which although it may still not be entirely correct for your needs at least behaves a little bit better.
 * Also, as your new documentation contradicts the existence of parameter one of the two (code or documentation) needs further change anyway. AuFCL (talk) 22:01, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Which template's documentation is using align? In any case correcting the above problems didn't solve the issue I'm having with numbered div/s, Looks like it's tear up the whole thing and start again. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:43, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
 * None of them. The point was that the parameter is used inside whilst the associated documentation implies only the   case is valid. In any case let's take a step back. I realise you are feeling a bit bruised at present and perhaps a review of the base problem is not out of order?  Your original query implied you thought the problem was with  but now you are concerned with numbered div/s. So was the first suggestion incorrect and the whole discussion to this point a bit of a goose chase?  Please describe clearly what you consider is the problem and perhaps some useful progress may be made from that point forward. AuFCL (talk) 23:14, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The basic problem is that when I use rh to generate the running header, the widths of the running header and the sections generated with numbered/s and numbered div/s are not the same, when ideally they should be. I am reverting my current attempts at a fix., so that someone competent can use the sledgehammer on it, so it behaves once and for all time.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:26, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * And I've found one possible logic failure, namely that what numbered/s whould be doing is adding a left hand white gutter and adjusting the width based on the page width. It's adding the gutter by doing a margin-shift, but crucially, it's the same width, when it  be adjusting the width, which it is not currently doing. Is there a portable way to get the width of the parent element in ems so we can subtract the 5 that's supposed to be for the gutter?

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:58, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The following code snippet shows the problem admirably.

Test Text content

Test Text content

Next problem - How to nicely calculate the true width required ;) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:09, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Move Text-book of Electochemistry
Not sure how to move a page and all its subpages. This title is missing an 'r': Index:Text-book of Electochemistry.djvu --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:05, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅— Mpaa (talk) 20:14, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! - New link for the lazy: Index:Text-book of Electrochemistry.djvu --Tobias1984 (talk) 21:03, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Welcome. Happy proofreading.— Mpaa (talk) 21:14, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Enough!!
Unless something changes I am about to get rather annoyed :-

The following : Page:Compendium of US Copyright Office Practices, II (1984).pdf/411 shows a glitch when previewing in 'Edit'

In that the two different table sections which nontheless should be identical in width are not in the 'preview'. Of course on 'Saving' the page, the tables are of course are identical. What's the point of having a preview if it doesn't actually show what's correct? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:02, 12 December 2015 (UTC)


 * In, what exactly is w80 suppose to be? There is a w67 (~66.6666666%) and a w75 (75%) but no w80. Pretty sure that's going to be the difference here. plus that one cell in Table -B- has like 7 entries ( 1500-9, 1500-10, 1500-11, 1500-16, 1500-18, 1500-19, 1500-20) while most other cell's in that column have 2 or 3 at the most. -- George Orwell III (talk) 17:30, 12 December 2015 (UTC)


 * w80 was supposed to be width: 80% (of parent.) If it's not supported, then it's only a partial explanation, as I've had preview vs actual page 'glitch' elsewhere. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:47, 12 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Id got part of the way through C - Compendium of US Copyright Office Practices, II (1984)/INDEX (C) but would at present appreciate someone else taking a sledgehammer to this and ensuring it will work consistently before I carry on, with this. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:47, 12 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Firstly why all the "vtp" and "vbm", why not just utilise the class="valignb" for the whole table? Keeping it simple is so much better. — billinghurst  sDrewth  06:18, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

OCR help
A helpful editor got me my own OCR button to play with but—now that I've finished with most of Volume III,—when I go to Vols IV and V of the EB9, no OCR displays and my OCR button doesn't seem to do anything.

Could someone add the initial scans for me or tell me what I need to adjust in my settings? — Llywelyn<font color="Gold">II  02:11, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Try Vol, 4 again now, I used the purge button View-refresh.svg on the index page to give the file and its text layers a shake, Try it yourself for vol. 5. — billinghurst  sDrewth  06:09, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Awesome. Worked like a charm on V. 5 too. Sorry I never noticed that button or understood it did something different from the purge in the menu tabs. — Llywelyn<font color="Gold">II  22:21, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

colour of validated page not changing
On this page, that has clearly been validated, the colour is green. But on the index-page of the work, the page is still yellow. Can anyone explain that? Thanks, Dick Bos (talk) 09:11, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I tried recursive purging both the page and the index to no avail. It's probably just some latency/lag thing that will magically update itself if you give it a little while. Maybe someone smarter than me has something useful to say. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:23, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Fixed now. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:31, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! It still is all a bit magical to me! But I learned another thing today: the ping-thing! Greetings, --Dick Bos (talk) 16:33, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Template:Sn-paragraph and others
For some reason, despite specifying what I've tried to make the same code work consistently in 4 templates being Sn-paragraph/sSn-paragraph/cSn-paragraph/eSn-pageheader, there seems to be an issue with how the code is parsed, and combinations of these template besides my best efforts do not want to play nicely with how Wikisource constructs headers and footers, in that in comparing some pages, to give a small sample, the whitespace generated between the header and the rest of the pagetext isn't seemingly consistent despite ALL the pages using a set of templates, which should be generating a consistent amount, because I've attempted to sync up the templates concerned. I'm scratching my head as it SHOULD be generating virtually identical output where the same combinations are used, but it doesn't seem to be.
 * Page:Historical Works of Venerable Bede vol. 2.djvu/292
 * Page:Historical Works of Venerable Bede vol. 2.djvu/293
 * Page:Historical Works of Venerable Bede vol. 2.djvu/294
 * Page:Historical Works of Venerable Bede vol. 2.djvu/295
 * Page:Historical Works of Venerable Bede vol. 2.djvu/296

If this isn't resolved within 48 hours I'll start converting ALL usages of the approach taken to the sidenotes beginsidenotes end approach on the basis that despite being ugly and noticeably broken, it at least behaves in a consistent manner. It would of course be "nice" if someone solved the issue of sidenotes for good, but despite having raised that issue previously it does not seem to be an active priority. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:10, 21 December 2015 (UTC)


 * And an underlying issue I found with ProofreadPage is also noted here - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122083 ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:36, 21 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The underlying issue is known, so I won't start converting just yet. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:56, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

User:ShakespeareFan00/Sandbox/Ruffhead
(moved from Main Scriptorium page) Behvaiour on preview and save is widely inconsistent to say the least. Please can you advise as to why seeminlgy on the pahse of the moon the transcluded portions from la.wikisource will or will not show up in preview and or on the page as dispayled in my userspace? Thanks ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:34, 10 December 2015 (UTC)


 * OK something seems to be really f***d up with LST. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:23, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Things appear to be stabalising a little but the transclusion is still random. It's there on load and not the next.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:16, 10 December 2015 (UTC)


 * (Update) - I'm still seeing this issue, EVEN after I thought I'd resolved the pagelist gotchas noted elsewhere.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:16, 27 December 2015 (UTC)