Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2013

= Scriptorium/Help =

Noob with questions
Hi, all. I have recently downloaded to my own computer the full text of the old Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, with the intention of adding the various articles therein to this site. Before anyone asks, yes, I do know just how freaking huge that source is, and that there is likely little if any chance that I will actually add all of its articles within one limited lifetime. I expect to start with those articles which are on topics which are included in more recent reference works on religion, so that people in other Wikimedia entities can have ready access to at least one good source on the subject. And, yes, some of the articles in that work have been called recently the best things on their topics ever written. I went through the how to create a page instructions, and am copyediting the versions I intend to upload here, but I do have a few questions regarding these matters first.


 * 1) Many of the articles have images of specific relevant material included. I am assuming that there are public-domain copies of those images available, considering the articles are themselves PD at this point, but wonder whether they are actually required for inclusion of the texts of the articles, and, if they aren't, if there are any real reasons to object to removing the "see image X" material from the articles themselves.
 * 2) I also assume we consider it acceptable to remove similar material from the article to the effect of "see page X, column Y" earlier in the same article internal references, because I think they would be incoherent in this format, but would appreciate verification of same.
 * 3) Lastly, I have to say that the #*&%@$ thing contains a huge amount of #*&%@$ Greek and other texts, and that I as an individual have serious problems telling the characters apart in some instances. What if anything are the procedures here for such matters?

Thanks in advance for any responses. John Carter (talk) 17:39, 2 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Speaking from experience, I'd recommend that you try working on a collaboratiove project here, before attempting such a monumental task on your own. It would mean a slight delay in acting on your enthusiasm, but would likely acquaint you with an array of issues and tools before you begin, thus saving lots of time and frustration in the bigger task.  As it happens, this month's collaboration is on a religious subject, which might be of interest to you.  You'd be able to work alongside others and learn by asking questions as you go.  I answer in this way, rather than directly answering your specific questions because (1) I see you've made only about a dozen edits here before, and the task you are looking to complete is monumental even by experienced standards, and (2) there are some big steps you'd need to accomplish before beginning the tasks about which you ask. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:15, 2 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I strongly second EncycloPetey's comments and in addition, we encourage the use of the .djvu format which would allow others to collaborate, rather than just uploaded text. Also, our past experience has been that projects which require many months of work are not completed and we already have a large collection of incomplete works.— Ineuw talk 19:47, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Fortunately, the scans seem to be available online at IA.org.
 * Please note more than one of those PDFs exceeds Commons' max upload file size of 100M. Additional manipulation of those files will be required to make that "fit". Conversion to DjVu might be another option. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:22, 2 December 2012 (UTC)


 * With regards to your questions, I think:


 * 1) you should add all images and keep the references "see image X" (this is in keeping with our philosophy of trying to make our works facsimiles of the actual texts)
 * 2) you should keep the "see page X, column Y" references and do the best you can to link them to the page number in reference
 * 3) you should mark any pages with Greek characters with Template:Greek missing and someone who can handle the Greek and can type it efficiently can come through and do that for you.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 21:14, 2 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Djvu format is also available on IA (~67MB). It's preferable because of its size and also because it's indicative that the work is also available in in JP2 format (it is) for image extraction. — Ineuw talk 21:39, 2 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I believe there are still technical issues Scriptorium with import of DJVU files, so pending that fix I would not begin the work yet. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 11:37, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * A good start is to add welcome template on a newbies' talk pages, as that has our primary links. Also, we should look to ensure that the text gives new users the required "get out of jail" cards that says, leave the hard bits, mark them 'such and such' a way, and mark the page as problematic. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

adding new books without text layers
Even though I keep seeing that note where it states problems pulling text layers upon entering, this problem does not exist totally. Ineuw talk has added the page images without the text layers. He cleaned and uploaded the illustrations to Commons. I then took those uploaded images where they were full page images, with no text, and inserted them in the proper page of Vanity Fair. Where pages were a mixture of image and text I left those alone thinking that when WS has pulling text layers in that it may overwrite the pages with both text and images. Still, a good portion of the work has been done aside from the fact that presently text layers cannot be done. This way part of the book is already completed. The same can be done with other books. Once the text layers are pulled in only that portion of editing will need to be done. Therefore, aside from all of the negativity of "we can't do this" -- we can still do that -- and that portion would have had to be done anyhow. It may be possible to type in text pages and then delete them. This way they still exist. Therefore when pulling in text layers, all one has to do is copy/paste from the page once created and deleted. This way an entire book can be done regardless of any inability to pull in text layers at the present. —Maury (talk) 17:52, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * But if there may be a problem in the file's text layer. We can't judge this if we can't access that layer.  If there is such a problem found with the file, then the file may need to be redone, and the whole process started again from scratch once the text layer is made accessible.  It is therefore better not to work with the problematic file, and thereby not have to face redoing a lot of the work once the problem is corrected. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:57, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It presents an interesting problem but also an interesting experiment. I would do only a very few pages shown in various ways (full page images should not be affected -- part text and part image probably will be affected -- and all text probably will be replaced. I enjoy experimenting to learn so that if it happens again I will know the answers to my own questions. Since I will do only a bit of this as an experiment then there is nothing I see to lose and if I do lose the little bit of work as an experiment then it was only something small that I can do over again. It really is not the work I am interested in as much it is the experiments I am curious about. I thank you for your answer. Kind regards, —Maury (talk) 21:09, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * But if, for example, we find that one or two pages are missing, then the original file has to be reprocessed, and the created pages will be in the wrong place. This is just one of the kinds of problems that can arise.  --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no problem that cannot be resolved. Have no such fears and be willing to face challenges. When entering Wikisource one of the statements is to be bold and that is exactly what we are doing. Too, you are not involved in any of this yet. There are only two of us who have worked with all page images and all of the illustrations. Let us learn and learn in peace. You have nothing to lose in this. I don't intend to sound mean but I really do want to try this as an experiment We two have worked on it can rework it if need be. We are all volunteers here so let us not argue nor debate this work that only two have done. There is, at this very point, nothing more we plan to do with our work. On your home page you have many works listed that you plan to get done. We are not requesting any help from any administrator and do not need any "help" from any administrator. Do not touch what we have set up! Keep other volunteers happy by leaving them in peace some times. Take care of your long list of work "to be done" or if you prefer edit whatever the proofread of the month is. We do not need an argument, nor a debate, or even more conversation about it. It burns up your and my time for editing. Thank you for your consideration, —Maury (talk) 23:26, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * If, as you say, we do not need a conversation, then why did you start one? --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It is more like how far should a conversation go? Only you and I have been having a conversation on this subject and we both have stated our thoughts. Thus it is more like what else is there to say? Have you something new and productive to add? If so then please do add it. —Maury (talk) 06:05, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Well that's a little strange
So I was doing a bit of validating while Skyping with the girlfriend (don't tell her, she didn't notice), but when I looked at the changes, there were some line breaks that I wasn't purposefully introducing.[//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Rise_and_Fall_of_Society.djvu/69&diff=prev&oldid=4166191]

I don't think that it's an actual issue, but I'm more curious as to why my edit would have changed anything in the copy itself. I even went back and clicked the Edit button again, making sure to do nothing except change the page status, and I still got the additional copy tweaks. Wha? EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 06:21, 8 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Line break looked okay to me. The old method of reference transclusion didn't.  In your time away, you missed on of ThomasV's lovely innovations of using initially   and follow on subsequent carry over reference stuff  .  For my practice, I usually call the first pXX where XX is the page number, and utilise that thereafter. Numbers alone (ref name=XX)don't work with &lt;ref>. — billinghurst  sDrewth  07:04, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I figured it was something like that. Thanks for the correction; I'm making a note about the footnotes in case I run across the issue again. EVula // talk // &#9775;  // 17:30, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I have just had an "Oh !" moment. I also had noticed and (I thought corrected) an oddity in the footnote on this very page. Just finished writing a confession to Billinghurst about same. Hope I haven't made the situation worse! MODCHK (talk) 21:42, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

text alignment in table that spans two pages
Hello. Yet another question. If anyone has a solution for keeping text in a table aligned (top of this page) so that it renders correctly in the Main, I would appreciate it. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:49, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

This Itinerary table is also frustrating me. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:04, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem is that you are having the software render two different tables, so it is changing up the sizes of both tables and not matching them to each other. What you need to do, is use the header and footer of those pages.  Put the closing of the first table (on page 25) in the footer and the opening of the second table (on page 26) in the header.  What this does is it makes the software render the tables so they look fine when you're in the Page: namespace, but it only renders one table when it's transcluded (because nothing in the footers/headers makes it into the main ns).  Basically, the table on page 25 is transcluded as an "open" table because its closing code is not carried with it, and it uses the closing code of the table on page 26.  This forces it all to align properly.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 17:14, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 *  Where to put the "|-" (or do I need one?)? After one hundred edits of the pages, I can't find a good solution. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:39, 9 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay... I got the first problem (thank you). Let me take a look at my other issue... Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:55, 9 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Good to go on all accounts, thanks. Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:10, 9 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you both, Help:Table updated using above explanation and example. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 11:50, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Sectional transclusion using &lt;pages> on PDF. What have I done wrong?
Can somebody please set me straight as to what is wrong with this directive (as used here):  I had intended this to transclude pages 1,5 and 6; followed by the top half of page 7 (i.e. excluding the "registration" section); however as you will see this unwanted section insists on coming for the ride.

In frustration I have come up with this approach (which produces the effect I wanted to achieve), but which seems rather unwieldy:   Would some kind soul please show me where my apparently broken brain has led me astray here?

I am sure I have not encountered this sort of problem with DJVU indices, so could this be a PDF-related quirk? MODCHK (talk)


 * It should be  rather than  .  I haven't checked the documentation but I think   means the last section to be included, not the section to exclude (nor the marker at which to stop).  I've re-edited the page to show that.  If I've messed anything up or completely misunderstood this, please just undo my edit. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 18:27, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, you got it exactly right. I really thought I had tried that combination and it had not worked; but can only plead bewilderment now. And you also expressed my mistaken former understanding of "tosection" quite accurately: I really thought it designated the section at which transclusion was halted (i.e. that only the starting point of the section was used.) I shall just have to get my head straight on this again! MODCHK (talk) 19:00, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * MODCHK, don't even say you are an idiot because it is not right. Adam is just very, very smart. —Maury (talk) 19:54, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Spanning table and reference problem
Can someone please help with this table two page table Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 60.djvu/529 (529 & 530) and reference position? The reference appears above the table. Thanks. — Ineuw talk 14:01, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I think this is an artefact of the way we do split tables in the Page namespace. I've run into similar problems before and given up trying to sort it—particularly as it transcludes just fine. In the end, it's what it looks like in Mainspace that is our main concern. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:13, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * How is it now? (Although strictly according to Help:Page_breaks the trailing nop may not be necessary...) MODCHK (talk) 21:24, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the replies, as well as for the lesson. It looks fine now. — Ineuw talk 21:29, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Images spanning a two page spread
I was wondering what the standard "best practice" is for pictures that span across a spread. Example [//en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Democratic_Ideals_and_Reality_(1919).djvu/112 here] and [//en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Democratic_Ideals_and_Reality_(1919).djvu/113 here]. Should I combine the two images together into one large image or keep them separate?
 * For this case, I'd say that a single combined image would be preferable. I can't think of any good reason to have them separate. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:37, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree - but keep in mind that you will need to do some tweaking to the final transclusion to ignore one page or the other and substitute the full image for the main namespace for what would amount to only half an image in the Page: namespace (i.e. use something like...   to accomplish that). -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:22, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I figured that I should combine them, but I was unsure about the proper way to handle transclusion properly. MarkLSteadman (talk) 11:11, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * And now it is done. Thanks again. MarkLSteadman (talk) 04:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Legislation Formatting templates
Would it be possible for someone to look through the various back and forth of these and come up with 'stable' versions of these, and then 'protect' them? Sfan00 IMG (talk) 14:37, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Side-by-side formatting suggestions for Francesca
If anyone has a better way to display Francesca of Rimini in a side-by-side display similar to this one (excluding references), I would be all ears. I copied the transcription formatting Zyephyrus used for Eleven Poems, since every other page of Francesca likewise alternates between translations. Any ideas/changes/suggestions welcomed. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:05, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Mpaa. Looks good! Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:29, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

refs centering in Main, don't know why
Hope this won't be like looking for a needle in a haystack, but I couldn't figure out where the issue is. [ Page here ]. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:42, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Got it. Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:58, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Header Trans
On Latin for beginners (1911)/Part II (and presumably elsewhere) when the first level header (i.e =Lesson II=)starts a page this is transliterated to there, the header is not displayed correctly. I went through and took a bunch of nop’s off of the before pages and that did not fix it. Any ideas? JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 15:39, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * A nop at the beginning of the page helps, but I do not know why or if it is acceptable. See Page:Latin_for_beginners_(1911).djvu/34--Mpaa (talk) 16:08, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks that works. Jeepday (talk) 23:37, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

"2.B.", "3.B."
Does anyone know what the "2.B." & "3.B.", etc. notation is for on pp. 35 & 36, etc.? I don't think they are related to footnotes, for the one on p. 36 does not correspond with one. There's a "1.B." on p. 15, but I ignored it. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:37, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I got it. They're notes which follow each Canto. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:46, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 67.djvu/157
The word "and" was duplicated in the original text and I struck it over, but never having come across this before, I was wondering if this is the correct procedure to deal with it? — Ineuw talk 20:08, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should be improving texts. I would transcribe as-is. Hesperian 01:21, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You are right. I got your point and remove the overstrike. Thanks.— Ineuw talk 06:09, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Page:Palestine Exploration Fund - Quarterly Statement for 1894.djvu/8
It's embarrassing but try as one might, I cannot successfully embed the table definition in the header - the table collapses. I've done this hundreds of times using. All columns, rows and cells were verified, and when the header is in the main body, it's fine. Could someone in the know look and see something I missed? I placed an HTML note where the header should end. Thanks.— Ineuw talk 16:15, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Should be OK. Apparently you need to leave an empty line before the table openings, otherwise it is recognized as text and not as wikicode.--Mpaa (talk) 16:36, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. We salute you. :-) — Ineuw talk 17:09, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

nop question
Is it necessary/desirable, etc. for nop to occupy its own line, or can it share the same line as the last word on a page? Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:59, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


 * It's necessary that nop is on a line by itself, be sure that it's not followed by space after (or before). — Ineuw talk 22:11, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:37, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


 * It also shouldn't be used inside tables, which is something I've seen happening of late. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:46, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Can you please supply context and/or examples? Whilst I agree I cannot think of a useful (or indeed harmful either) use of nop in inline tables; surely Help:Page_breaks practically mandates its use in cross-page-transcluded tables? MODCHK (talk) 05:06, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, my experience is that the advice given for use of nop in that Help page is just wrong, as the template isn't needed at all. All the multi-page tables I've done have worked just fine without it. See for example the monstrously large table at the end of this chapter, where no nop was needed to get the table to format.


 * The bad instances I've noticed recently include: this one, where it was used at the end of the first page of a multi-page table. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:25, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the response and clarification(s). Umm, don't the page bodies of both Page:An Introduction to the Study of Fishes.djvu/89 and Page:An Introduction to the Study of Fishes.djvu/90 (2nd and 3rd pages of the "monstrously large table") commence with nops? In both pages you are listed as the (only) editor. MODCHK (talk) 05:57, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * They do, yes, but it isn't required for proper display of the page content. I've just verified that again myself with a test edit to be certain I wasn't mistaken.  The only thing that the nop does is that it permits an individual page number link to appear in the transcluded version of the page.  Without that template, the transcluded version would not show page numbers to the left for any but the first page. --EncycloPetey (talk) 08:14, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Which is incorrect behaviour as all page number links should be there. So the nop is required. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:01, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * How can that be "incorrect" behavior? This same lack of page numbers will occur whenever a paragraph runs across multiple pages, and I have seen this happen.  There is no way to guarantee that the page numbers will display when there is a multipage passage with no paragraph breaks.  The page numbers may be desirable, but they cannot be enforced. --EncycloPetey (talk) 09:30, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Every page included in the command to transclude a range of pages from the Page: namespace should appear in the main namespace. The exception to this are those Pages: marked empty for without text within a transcluded range. The other known issue concerns those instances where a table spans more than 1 Page: in the Page: namespace. Otherwise the pages numbers should always be displayed. The true test is to see if the page numbers are missing under all three Dynamic Layouts not just the default. If it is just the default, its your browser vs. the wikicode and not everybody will experience this in the same instances as you do. -- George Orwell III (talk) 10:19, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Your statement about page numbers always displaying is at odds with the observed facts. I've edited from a Mac running Safari, a PC running Firefox, and a PC running IE, so my observations are not specific to just one browser or one platform.  When a paragraph spans three or more pages without a paragraph break, page numbers display only for the page on which the paragraph starts and for the one where the next paragraph begins. Any page that includes no start of a new paragraph, or for which the previous page did not end with nop, will not have its page number displayed. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:52, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Nevertheless, the only HTML element that is known to prevent the display of embedded page numbers back to the Page: namespace are the wikicoded closing table row & table cell tags. All other common tags accept the insertion of one or more span tags and that is what is generated when the page breaks in a transcluded range of Page:s are rendered in the mainspace for the embedded links. The length of a paragraph (or lack of paragraph breaks) across multiple pages in the Page namespace should not affect this. If it does (i.e. you do not see the embedded page links under all 3 dynamic layouts) then trust something is not right. The hiding of some embedded links as you describe would be completely contrary to the purpose & design of the extension. The obvious first thing to test after that would be the same multi-page paragraph being forced to open and close with the traditional html opening and closing pargraph tags < p> rather than the default wikicoded generated substitions of paragraph tags. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:25, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

is principally used to stop wikitext collapsing, so it is akin to a position holder, and sometimes it is within a table commencement/termination due to the &lt;noinclude>s. The help text was clearly defined at a point of time due to the necessity, and while it is always possible that a coding change may render this unnecessary, last time I checked it still provided a useful piece of coding, even within a table. — billinghurst  sDrewth  10:41, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Wikisource FAQ
Does en.Wikisource have a FAQ with questions and answers -- but not highly detailed answers consisting of several pages -- the typical FAQ we all are used to seeing with short questions and answers? —Maury (talk) 01:16, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * There are three


 * WikiProject 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica/faq
 * WikiProject Wiki Bible/FAQ
 * WikiProject DNB/FAQ
 * There is also Help:Contents and For Wikipedians. Jeepday (talk) 01:28, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Jeepday! —Maury (talk) 01:32, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Wikisource FAQ areas
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:WikiProject_Wiki_Bible/FAQ#Why_not_the_GFDL.3F

6 Why use a wiki?

Two papers written by A. Désilets describe the benefits of using a wiki for collaborative translation:

"Translation the Wiki Way", 2006

"Translation Wikified: How will Massive Online Collaboration Impact the World of Translation?", 2007

results

Error / Erreur

HTTP Error 404 - Not Found

—Maury (talk) 01:48, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Looking for a justified text block template
We have centered and hanging indent templates but I can't find one that forces justification on a block of text with a set width. I need it for multi-line image captions, (a newly introduced PSM style as of volume 57) Is there such a thing, before I make one? — Ineuw talk 02:36, 7 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Umm, justify? Operates on a paragraph-at-a-time basis; so I guess that is not what you are looking for? I usually wrap it around a block left or block centre and use the |width= from that if I need to force a given width. (Not sure if that extends the paragraph limit on effect though; please experiment.) MODCHK (talk) 03:59, 7 January 2013 (UTC)


 * On second thoughts, cancel that concern about crossing paragraphs. Works fine by itself (e.g. Page:Things Seen In Holland (1912).djvu/261) MODCHK (talk) 04:34, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Also note I got the embedding backwards above: is the correct way and works. MODCHK (talk) 00:32, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I would (blindly) ask why we would want to do so. This is about the text, not a facsimile when the presentation form when we are in a different medium. Unless it is critical to the presentation, I am not sure that I will overly fuss. — billinghurst  sDrewth  10:28, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, I was attempting to respond to the technical question posed. As Ineuw has not clarified the matter further, either this answer sufficed, or (more likely after this lapse of time) the matter is now thoroughly stale. MODCHK (talk) 00:50, 16 January 2013 (UTC)= Help =

Table help request
If anyone wants to take a stab at it, the table on this page needs tweaking. Also, if there could be a buffer placed between the columns; and I don't know if it's possible to replicate the distinction made in the original with regard to the contents in italics. Thanks ahead of time, Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:58, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Not really nice. Feel free to do what you prefer. Did not get your point on italics.--Mpaa (talk) 22:59, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay... What's "not really nice"? I'll check back here tomorrow for a reply, and hopefully someone can explain what I mean by the text in italics.  I'm tired.  Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:05, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * What I came up with.--Mpaa (talk) 23:08, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * What's nice is the effort and intent—and time taken. Thanks for both all. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I will be the first to admit this solution is "unusual", but the biggest flaw I can see is an extra padding line which I don't seem to be able to suppress separating quotes (53) from 54. Best I can do. I look forward to how to fix it further... MODCHK (talk) 18:39, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

The Romance of Isabel, Lady Burton/Book 1/Chapter 1
Why does the family tree at /35 transclude to the end, and not immediately after page 8 where it belongs? Moondyne (talk) 01:23, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Chart didn't have an end, so wikicode just dumped the lot to the end of the page. Fixed. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:40, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Tks. Moondyne (talk) 02:24, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Page blanking edits
[//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Header&action=history This] appeared on my watchlist. I'm too lazy/tired at the moment to look thoroughly through the history, but page blanking, in my understanding is, if not 'illegal'—then at least frowned upon here. But I'm not sure where the distinction lies (to what extent), so I thought I'd inquire here. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:10, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Without addressing the content change appropriateness Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing the content is being moved, not blanked. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 17:40, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

[Some] Index page images in The kernel and the husk not appearing on the right hand side in my browser
Can someone please look into the above issue? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:58, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm... One page I alighted on had the image, so I went either forward or backward (can't remember which), and when I alighted back on the original page, the image disappeared was no longer visible on the page. Some kind of glitch? Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:02, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Considering further... This is an issue for comparison purposes, as I have made many mistakes in proofreading, and I do not want to mislead any reader if a typo I make or leave gives the original intent of the text a whole other meaning. Seems this should be addressed pronto. Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:14, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

P.S. The images appear in edit mode. By the way, has the layout in edit mode changed recently? Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:15, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit raw watchlist
What is the purpose of the above "raw watchlist"? Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:20, 14 January 2013 (UTC)


 * If you have 500 pages of a book on your watch list and you want to remove them; with ’Edit watchlist’, you have to check each page; with ’Edit raw watchlist’ you can select all of them with your mouse, remove them, and save the changes. Other magic options are available depending on your skill set. Jeepday (talk) 22:40, 14 January 2013 (UTC)


 * But why would you want to rename titles in the watchlist? A personalized reference system (as it seems to me to be) seems logical—it reminds me of renaming a folder on your computer, but what purpose(s) might a page such as that serve here? And does only the specific User have access to the "raw watchlist" or do admins and above also have access to the pages?  Seems to me that Users personalizing page names in this manner would give others (if any) a bit too much insight into the personal preferences of the User (not that that doesn't happen with regard to other aspects of this site—such as choices of books to proofread, etc.), but seems to me that this goes a step further, and you should at least post a caveat (let the user beware) at the top of the page in red (similar to the large print at the top of the page when you are logged out and trying to edit in edit mode) to warn Users that others may have access to their personalized naming system, etc.  This isn't a Facebook "like" list after all.  Just a thought. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:12, 15 January 2013 (UTC)


 * It doesn't let you rename titles in the watchlist - the raw watchlist is just a plain list of all pages that you watch. If you change a row in the raw watchlist from "Title A" to "Title B" then Title B will be added to your watchlist and Title A will be removed from it. There is no "personalized naming system"; it's just an alternative way to get at the same list that you see at the ordinary "View or edit watchlist" link. - Htonl (talk) 02:03, 15 January 2013 (UTC)


 * See w:Help:Watching pages -- "Ordinary users or administrators cannot tell what is in your watchlist, or who is watching any particular page. Publicly available database dumps do not include this information either. Only Developers who have access to the servers that hold the Wikipedia database could obtain this kind of information." Moondyne (talk) 02:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Editing your raw Watchlist happens without leaving information that other editors can see. Editing the list also does not change anything except the list itself.  The key advantages of this tool are that (1) you can see what it is you've decided to watch, and (2) you can remove lots of items from the list in a single step, should you choose to do so. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:26, 16 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay. Thanks for the explanations, Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:33, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Noob needs help
Can someone familiar with the Weird Tales setup help this new user? Pages lack headers, and sometimes are oddly formatted redirects. I'm not going to be on-line much today, so I don't have time to help, but this user is working at a frenetic pace. So, an ounce of prevention and all that. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:23, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I spent two and a half hours yesterday on their contributions and have asked user that headers be added—to no avail. Several of the additions yesterday were copyvio and a quick scan of today's contributions doesn't look much better. I'll see what I can do today, but I will have less time than yesterday. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:44, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

The Clipper Ship Era (1843-1869)
The Clipper Ship Era (1843-1869) would someone please fix this book so that the proofreading/validating blocks end up in the "mainspace" reading area that actually looks like a book? It's partially done but then it stops and I don't have any more patience to play around and experiment to get the danged thing working. —Maury (talk) 03:09, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * See The Clipper Ship Era/Chapter 7. Moondyne (talk) 03:50, 17 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Moondyne, thank you so much for the reply and example. A portion is easy but I get confused about the chapter page numbers and when I tried I made things worse. I then went to Index and made it even more worse. I think I put everything back like it was but am not sure. What is this process called? —Maury (talk) 04:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I guess everyone has their own technique, but for me to assemble the line, I did the following: I don't know what this process is called, but good luck!. Moondyne (talk) 05:20, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) open the index page Index:The Clipper Ship Era.djvu
 * 2) looking at the Contents panel, note the 1st page# for this chapter (note that this is the "real" page number and not the internal PAGE: number). For Ch7, its 100
 * 3) find p.100 in the middle Pages block and hold the mouse over it. Jot down the PAGE: that appears inside the mouseover box (in this case its / 132 ).
 * 4) do the same for the last page number for the chapter (generally 1 less than the 1st page of the next chapter). ie. 119-1=118 which equates to / 156 )


 * I don't know what the process is either which is why I asked. It should have a name. I was thinking of finding it on Wikisource/Help and if it is not there it should be. Like all things when one doesn't know how to do something it's confusing but when one does know then it's easy. The name "Good Luck" would be a fine name for this process. Thank you again for helping me. This is the first one (presently named "Good Luck" ) I have ever worked on. —Maury (talk) 11:23, 17 January 2013 (UTC)


 * see w:Wikipedia:Transclusion, JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 11:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The Clipper Ship Era (1843-1869) Would somebody please just fix the simplistic blasted thing? I have a long day of work ahead and NASA needs my physics skills working on the "coefficient of linear expansion" of various metals heated to various degrees so the nuts and bolts on rockets won't blast apart when expanded by any given temperature in centigrade/kelvin. —Maury (talk) 12:15, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Moondyne (talk) 03:17, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Moondyne. I want to tell you something interesting. I actually Dream of editing. In dreams I edit and never have a problem editing, I just easily edit. I dream of editing many nights. —Maury (talk) 12:50, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Dear oh dear. Noting that my brain can be thinking in terms of IP addresses, and IP range blocks. [Kill kill kill the wretched vandals and spambots] — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:05, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Line numbers
Hey. In proofreading over at the Icelandic Wikisource I came across [//is.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:%C3%86fisaga_J%C3%B3ns_%C3%93lafssonar.djvu/35 these line numbers]. This is not poetry and the line division is not vital. It is probably conceived as a reading aid for that particular version (it's a 1909 version of a work originally made in 1664). What would be a proper way to deal with this? --Bjarki S (talk) 03:10, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I noticed that every page (granted, I only looked at two pages and am assuming) begins line numbering anew. Does any section of the text refer back to pages/lines of text in reference?  If so, it seems as though some sort of notation might be in order—perhaps using sidenotes somehow as opposed to basic line numbering (which wouldn't work really, in my opinion).  I dunno.  Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:59, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * My comments would be that the line numbering is the artefact of editor's usually where the work is being used as a reference. To reproduce them in situ is difficult, especially as forcing a width onto a web document without knowing the reading device is a pain in the bum. If there is value in the references (ie. evidence that someone, somewhere did it as a commentary or study guide) I would keep them, have them as anchors, and then in the notes section put link to the anchor points, but maybe keep them invisible.  Alternatively, if there is no value in the anchor points, forget it and just do the text.  Depends on how much you wish to fiddle. If someone wishes to come and put them in later, so be it, it is a wiki.  As a balloon thought, dropping some easy invisible code like   which you would make as a null template allows easy formatting for the links for this work at a later time. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:02, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I went with ignoring them mostly. I made an empty template to keep track of the numbers in case anybody wants to do something with them at a later point. --Bjarki S (talk) 01:37, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Surely this is similar to The Canterbury Tales/The Wife of Bath's Prologue and Tale which uses line; or alternately Page:The Wasteland.djvu/14 using pline? MODCHK (talk) 14:08, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * MODCHK, your examples are in poetry form, not prose—and with line breaks (which lend themselves better to line numbering). Bjarki S's example is in prose form, as he/she has attested to above. Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:24, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair point. In which my suggestion degenerates into... exactly what Billinghurst says above. I would suggest simply ignoring the numbering component altogether. MODCHK (talk) 15:59, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Off [WS]-topic question about 'long s' use
From MODCHK's Talk page:

''...Which would you use for upper case use at the beginning of a word? 'long s' (ſ) or 'descending long s' (esh, ʃ)—or something else? Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:13, 22 January 2013 (UTC)''
 * I am by no means authoritative on this, but my understanding is "ſ" may be used to start a word, or be embedded within it (e.g. "ſadneſs"), but I do not believe either form is permitted to be the final letter of a word. I suspect most documents using this were of a vintage where upper/lower case was not particularly observed. I recommend asking further, and would be interested if you get any useful information! MODCHK (talk) 15:32, 22 January 2013 (UTC)...

To clarify, using MODCHK's example of the word "ſadneſs",— If the title (modern-day) of a poem, short story, etc., was "In Sadness", and one wanted to make a "play" on the upper case letter "S" by making it "old-fashioned", which rendering of the 'long s' would one use? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:51, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * A closer reading of Long s (which Londonjackbooks located/provided prior to this discussion moving to the Scriptorium) debunks just about everything I stated above (cringe!) Unfortunately, neither does it answer her question &hellip; MODCHK (talk) 22:50, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I think the anſwer to the queſtion is "neither": you'd uſe upper-caſe "S". "Long s", whether deſcending or not, was a lower-caſe-only form. - Htonl (talk) 23:20, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Darn! Well—there goes my play on words idea.  Learned something in the process though, so no loss :)  Appreciated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:33, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * P.S. Maybe that bit of info could be added to the WP articles for ſ and ʃ (esh). But not by me; I wouldn't know how to phrase it. Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:35, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I sometimes feel that we should turn our direction around how we use "long S" to have an essay with it that pulls in all the hit that has been spent/wasted/thrashed through the time. We can have a help page/section and in the WS: ns an article, call it "In the throeſ of long s"
 * Poorly disguised cursing notwithstanding, such displays of unique personality is in part why I like to edit here :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:09, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey! There was a gem of sense and poignancy in among the silliness. We have spent lots of time over the 'eons discussing long s, so an essay to cover the points of view, and how we arrived at our position isn't a completely wrong thought bubble. — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:29, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

How would you link this?
On this page—in the ref-follow where it states, "see Poems, vol. i. p. 5, note 1", I want to link to the actual note which is transcribed [//en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Works_of_Lord_Byron_(ed._Coleridge,_Prothero)/Poetry/Volume_1/On_the_Death_of_a_Young_Lady#cite_note-1 here]. Can someone please show me how that can best be done? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:13, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've put an anchor in the note and then added a link back to it from the volume 8 page. I'm sure there are other ways of doing this, but this was my first thought on how to do it. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:34, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok. So for subsequent references/links to notes, I should continue with anchors note2, note3, etc. (only two in the case of "Death of a Young Lady", but just as a 'for example') as they correspond with the actual reference numbers on each Mainspace page, right?  But, I can also "reuse" anchor note1 with a different poem (i.e., Mainspace page), right?  Sorry if I am being confusing.  Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:48, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I would only add anchors for notes that you need to link to. The name of the anchor is arbitrary as long as it's unique for the mainspace page, so yes reuse anchor names on different poems. I just selected note1 so that it would make some sense to both of us. By the way, transcluded page numbers are anchors already, so no need to create anchors for pages. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:03, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Got it. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:17, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Odd equal sign problem
While editing, "Short title=A" or similar keeps turning into "Short titleĀ". Is this a problem with Wikisource or the browser? How do I fix this? - Presidentman (talk) 12:52, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The browser is Mozilla Firefox 18.0.1. - Presidentman (talk) 12:53, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Check in your Preferences/Gadgets if this is enabled: "Keyboard shortcuts to type special characters (works in Firefox, Chrome). [example : ^ae -> æ ]"--Mpaa (talk) 13:34, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It was. Thanks! - Presidentman (talk) 14:12, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If you want to leave the keyboard shortcut on and type the =A, type the A and then put the = in front of the A. Jeepday (talk) 11:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

The Biographical Dictionary of America
Earlier today I found several illustrated volumes of "The Biographical Dictionary of America." They were placed on en.WS by Billinghurst. I need to know if the two-column pages have to be edited as two-column pages (which I don't know how to do) or if I can edit them as one page. These several volumes look very good and as far as I have read on what I know the volumes are historically correct. —Maury (talk) 20:22, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Single column. Double columns makes the transcluded text nearly impossible to use on a desktop computer and even worse on an eReader. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:56, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, Good! Thank you Beeswaxcandle. —Maury (talk) 21:03, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely what BWC said. A case of KISS, and not to render a form that was useful for a book form but doesn't translate well to a longitudinal web pages, or other variable width/variable page formats.  The whole set of those works is uploaded User:Billinghurst/The Biographical Dictionary of America

Dotted lines, what is the best way to do it?
I'm looking for a way of formatting these tables. Which template should I use to get the same effect of those spaced dots? Thanks in advance!--Micru (talk) 22:11, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The templates that we have are at Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Dotted. My comment is always why use them, to me they are cumbersome and less than attractive clunky things.  I find them somewhat problematic in their rendition, and I generally choose not to use them. They are typographic elements, presumably not prescribed by the authors of the works. — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:21, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Concur with billinghurst, and the columns question/answer above also applies here. You can put 7 under 6 instead of next to 1. Jeepday (talk) 11:49, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments, maybe you are right about that not being very relevant for the reader. It will save work and headaches not to copy it, that for sure.--Micru (talk) 16:09, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Combining pages
I'm working on proofreading Index:United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_A6719.pdf. I'm wondering if it is acceptable to combine the pages into one. Style_guide says, "A Wikisource page does not usually correspond directly to a printed page, but rather to an article, chapter, or section."

One benefit of doing this is that the footnotes can keep their original numbering. I'm not sure if I can make the footnotes on Page:United Nations General Assembly Resolution A6719.pdf/2 start at 2. Superm401 - Talk 04:56, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Do the references separately for each page in the Page: namespace. When the pages are transcluded into the single mainspace page they will be in a single sequence. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:08, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Where should I put the .  Now I think the extension software assumes a section on the Index page like the title, author, year etc.  This might be a job for Tpt, or anyone else who works with the extension (if there is anyone else). - AdamBMorgan (talk) 21:41, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll phrase a question to Tpt soon.  Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:24, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * In order to make parameters work, you have to add them to MediaWiki:Proofreadpage_index_data_config. I've just [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AProofreadpage_index_data_config&diff=4350147&oldid=4178268 done it for sister template parameters]. The "hidden": true is here in order to don't show the added fields in index pages form. Tpt (talk) 19:45, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:11, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

File:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large,_1763.djvu
The index for this needs updating I was able to patch the file. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:56, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you're after here. If it's just a matter of adjusting the pagelist on the Index page, go for it. It's something else can you please give a bit more detail? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:46, 7 March 2013 (UTC)


 * It's moving all contributions after page 40 up by 2 pages, I can't do this because it requires a mass page move, which I agreed not to do currently. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:18, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * OK. Log a request on WS:Bot requests (use one of George's as a model) and someone will look after it. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:27, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Most of the text completed, can this work be pushed into the mainspace?
I've completed the proofreading for almost all the textual pages of Index:Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines.djvu. The remaining unproofread pages are primarily composed of images with short descriptions and then a universe full of dense tables. Once I finish the non-table pages (or somebody else does), can the work be pushed to the mainspace? I'm eager to link a Wikipedia article to it, and the way I plan to work them the tables won't be searchable anyway. —Kierkkadontalk/contribs 17:43, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it can go to the mainspace. In fact, the preliminary pages and chapters 1 to 7 can happen now. Do you want some help with this, or do you want to have a go yourself first? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:42, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd like to give it a try myself, if nobody minds. —Kierkkadontalk/contribs 20:11, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * From this Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines it looks like you have it under control. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 11:27, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Weird dotted box showing up in the middle of the page, cannot find a cause
So on this page: Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines/Chapter 4, midway down (listed as being transcluded from page 63, in fact) the text is set apart in this box with a dashed border, and it changes font to the same as that used in the editting window. I can't figure out why, either at the beginning of Page 63 or the end of Page 62. —Kierkkadontalk/contribs 20:18, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * There will be a stray space or two at the end of page 62. You just need to remove them. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:25, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * EC. Removed. Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:27, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah. For some reason I thought I checked that. No matter. Thanks! —Kierkkadontalk/contribs 21:22, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Rule color
Is it possible to change rule color to 'solid red'? Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:39, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Probably, but one has to ask why? If the fact that it's a rule is all that's important then don't worry about its colour. But if the fact that it's red is integral to understanding the work, then that's another matter. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:41, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Should have linked to it, sorry! There might be a better way of formatting(?)  Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:56, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I am not entirely sure why this works (foreground and background colours seem to be reversed to my way of thinking with rules), but you might try:, which renders like this:


 * This quite aside, I would approach your example (Kipling) as a table border with style specified as "1px solid red" (i.e. ) instead. (Silly me, that is exactly what you have done!) MODCHK (talk) 22:37, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't take any formatting credit; I copied Theornamentalist's work from Five Nations. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:48, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * No, that might have been me you saw playing around. What about now? -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:44, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks all, Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:48, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Best practice with page usurpation
I want to convert the unindexed The Last Department to a redirect to the indexed Departmental Ditties and Ballads and Barrack-Room Ballads/The Last Department. What to do about the associated Talk page? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:09, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

There will be numerous cases like this that I will be dealing with with Kipling's poetry. I would tag the associated Talk pages with Speedy Delete, but I thought it might be good to preserve the history, and wanted to double-check. I just didn't know which page to preserve it on: The original (which will be converted to a redirect) or the newly created (indexed) page. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:39, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * What I would do is to move the Page under the new structure prior to the transclusion (leaving a redirect), then trasclude and replace the content. The Talk page will then stay near the original page, with the history.--Mpaa (talk) 07:30, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Makes sense, thanks. I've got five poems where I'll have to move the talk page contents manually, but after that, I'll continue on as you suggest.  Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:07, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Copyright of U.S. Supreme Court oral argument

 * Hustler Magazine v. Falwell/Oral argument

I've added a transcript of oral argument before the U.S. Supreme Court, at Hustler Magazine v. Falwell/Oral argument.

The text of the transcript is from, and there is some minor de minimus header background info in the way of case information at the top from.

Presumably testimony and oral argument before a federal court in any lower or upper jurisdiction of is public domain as a direct product of the United States federal government.

The audio version is copyrighted by, but I don't think the text-based transcript itself of proceedings in open court can be subject to any copyright except public domain as a product of the U.S. federal government.

Just checking here, to see if that sounds right?

Thank you for your time, -- Cirt (talk) 22:19, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Moved to Possible_copyright_violations for discussion. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 10:41, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Page:MALAYSIA BILL (Hansard, 26 Juli 1963).djvu/2
Prior to recent concerns I had an OCR button in the Wikisource toolbar.

Can someone explain if as a consequence of removing certain user rights, this button is disabled, because looking at the above text, it should OCR quite reasonably? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:29, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Check your gadget preferences. It may have become disabled there as the OCR button is not attached to user rights. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:36, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I can see the OCR button on the pages, so it is not a system issue. And now I see you got it working. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 10:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure the problem here is that pressing the OCR button doesn't produce anything while it seems like it easily should and that is why he's calling it "disabled". Can anyone generate anything on any of the subsequent yet-to-be created pages in the same Index: ? Note that there are existing issues of unknown cause with some of the DjVu's in that same MALAYSIA series that won't OCR even at Any2DjVu. -- George Orwell III (talk) 11:06, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I went to Page:MALAYSIA BILL (Hansard, 26 Juli 1963).djvu/12 and could not get the OCR button to work. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 14:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Text recovered by a Match and Split from the source listed. Needs proofreading. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:03, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * So we think this OCR button issue is related to the source document? It has been a while, but I remember a couple years or so ago it was not working, but I have a vague memory that problems was solved (I think). Jeepday (talk) 23:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The issue in this case has nothing to do with the OCR button; especially if one is able to use it and get results under some other source file at the same time. For others (like me) the OCR button never provided anything either way (old browser?). Background/Findings: Most [free] OCR routines require the source file strictly follow established file specifications, be based in the same default language as the software is set to (usually English) and have an internal DPI that the OCR software can work with by default. Something is odd about the DjVus in this series because none of the ones marked 'Needs OCR' will generate one when run thru Any2DjVu.org even though the content appears to be nothing more than 2 or 3 dozen pages of "born digital" (i.e. not scanned), un-extraordinary text. If we take the previously linked to Page's source file in particular and have a closer look - there is no way ~24 pages of "born digital", simple text should result in a ~30Mb DjVu source file. In my limited experience in dealing with such oddities, the culprit seems to point to the use of software other than DjVuLibre based ones to create/convert a finished DjVu source file (Digital DjVu? in particular). The code on our servers, as well as the routines at Internet Archive and Any2DjVu.org, all rely on DjVuLibre to read and write DjVu files - mostly because that [free] software handles all three of the opening points on [free] OCR routines well enough and reliably enough to become a permanent part of their online services.  I'm afraid the easiest solution to getting the rest of the marked files in this series into a ready for proofreading state would be to do the same copy & paste from the original Hansard site for each page just like ShakespeareFan just did, followed by a new creation of the same pages into a new PDF that can be newly processed into a new (& workable) DjVu file. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:38, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * And I see the remaining Index pages needing text-layers in this series have already been addressed by said importation of text. Thank You! -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:35, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Help locating a contributor
Looking to assist one of my students who would like to contact WillowW about the subjects that have been translated- such as Maupertuis "Accord between Different Laws of nature that seemed incompatible "  (1744).
 * WillowW is still active on Wikipedia. You should be able to get in contact through his/her talk page over there. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 21:31, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Database Error
When editing two separate pages of Scientific Memoirs Vol. 2 I get the following error...

Database error A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was: (SQL query hidden) from within function "MathRenderer::writeDBEntry". Database returned error "1048: Column 'math_outputhash' cannot be null (10.64.16.8)".

I think it has to do with the equations on the pages but not sure what further to do. MarkLSteadman (talk) 22:37, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds like submitting a request would be of value. After you have entered the bug, there will be a basic form, and we would normally add the number 35925 to the block field, as that assigns it to have an issue at Wikisources. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:57, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It already exists as bug 46042. Not sure how to set the blocking flag. MarkLSteadman (talk) 18:36, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Issue with header=1
Hi. This page is skipped and not recognised as link by header=1: Flame and Shadow/Sunset: St. Louis. Previous page, Flame and Shadow/Redbirds, ignores that link and instead of using Flame and Shadow/Sunset: St. Louis as next, it points to the page immediately after it, Flame and Shadow/The Coin. The same happens in the other direction (Starting from The Coin). Can someone explain why? Is there something wrong in having punctuation in titles and how header=1 handles them?--Mpaa (talk) 06:06, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Removed the column from the page name and now is OK. Should this be a bug to be filed?--Mpaa (talk) 13:29, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The pages either side needed to be purged in cache to get the links resolved in the adjacent pages, and done. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:45, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I did it before changing the name with no success. After changing, I purged and it worked, so I connect it to the presence of ":".--Mpaa (talk) 15:41, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

tags in mainspace
As you can see in Page:Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines.djvu/97, this part of Index:Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines.djvu involves footnotes. When I pushed that to the mainspace at Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines/Chapter 6, apparently the tag in the page. —Kierkkadontalk/contribs 13:01, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, wait. There's a difference between and  so presumably a fix. — billinghurst  sDrewth  07:05, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Greek
I am editing letters to and from Jonathan Swift. Occasionally, there is a letter containing another language. I'm fine with Latin, French, and Spanish, but the Greek letters are quite beyond me. Here is the page: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_13.djvu/342. If any of you can read and/or transcribe Greek, I encourage you to take a look to fix it! And thank you! Susanarb (talk) 00:33, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * What you can do, if you wish, is mark the text with Greek missing, save the page as "Problematic", and move on. The template will place the page into Category:Pages with missing Greek characters, which, one would hope, is monitored by people with the skills you are looking for. Hesperian 00:51, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks! Susanarb (talk) 00:54, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I do know some Greek, but this text contains at least three printed forms of Greek characters that I'm unfamiliar with. If I can get hold of one of my Greek expert contacts, I'll have him take a look at it. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:04, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I check this category once or twice a week (usually on a Sunday) and deal with any pages that are tagged. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:50, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I think we've got the Greek fixed now. A colleague at Wiktionary figured out what was going on and supplied me with the Greek script, which is now added to the page. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:41, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Internal link to other ws
Stupid question: what am I doing wrong? Moondyne (talk) 01:57, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * http://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Orlando_furioso/Canto_1
 * Orlando furioso/Canto 1

You want this? it:Orlando furioso/Canto 1 Hesperian 01:57, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, ta. Moondyne (talk) 02:13, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Formatting a book's back index
I'm trying to format this index here: Page:Origin_of_Species_1859_facsimile.djvu/503. I can see that the page number should go in the header, and that the index is labelled by the first letter of the words. But the index here also includes the first and last index elements on the page ("aberrant" to "bees", for this example). Where should I place these so that the transcription is consistent with the original text, but they won't get in the way when the index is viewed together as a whole here: On the Origin of Species (1859)/Index? I was thinking in either in the header or the footer? Ozhu (talk) 01:07, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I would put them in the header. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:59, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I've put them in the same running header with the page number. There really isn't any reason to do otherwise, since the headwords are not going to appear in their published location anyway.  Also, please look at the use I've made of the bar template.  A parameter of "2" produces a single bar of the same length that you've tried to recreate with two dashes, but without the space in between.  I think it makes the result look cleaner. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:53, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that tip. I'll go back and use that. Also makes it easier to edit with gvim on Windows, which doesn't handle special characters well at all. Ozhu (talk) 01:31, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

How do I use plain sister to link to 2 wikipedia articles?
A Dictionary of Music and Musicians/Bärmann covers three members of the same family, two of whom have WP articles. Heinrich Baermann and Carl Baermann. How do I link to both of them from the same mainspace page without resorting to the deprecated wikipedia? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:00, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 * If you're trying to avoid using interwiki links, you could create an author page for them and link from there. The only other thing that comes to mind is the creation of a template like taxon or dated. - Theornamentalist (talk) 00:16, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, if you use header instead of DMM (or modify the latter appropriately!), you could make use of parameter "related_author", which permits multiple (local) author links using the syntax (e.g.) related_author=Heinrich Baermann/Carl Baermann. MODCHK (talk) 00:35, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * H'mm. It's taken me all day to realise what you meant by using an interwiki link. I've obviously got too close to this project and can't step back far enough to look at it dispassionately enough. Oh well, at least I've got there now even if it is 9 hours later. There's also a hat note on Heinrich's WP article for Carl's. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:12, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't it be possible to modify the "wikipedia" parameter in header to accept more entries with the same syntax as " realted_authors"? I had the same need as BWC elsewhere.--Mpaa (talk) 07:19, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Template:Header just "calls" the Plain Sister template and that is where you'd need to add the capability for "extra" WP links. -- George Orwell III (talk) 07:38, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Edit: btw... has anyone tried applying a stand-alone plain-sister template in the header's notes field in addition to using the "built-in" parameter? ✅ ? -- George Orwell III (talk) 07:51, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * We come humbly and grovel at the feet of the master, who even in the deadest hours of the night always produces the goods! Thanks. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:21, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, I rephrase. Wouldn't it be better to modify Plain Sisters to accept multiple links? Even if a stand alone template call in notes produces the result, we are just distributing around info which should logically stay together.--Mpaa (talk) 11:40, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * One possible drawback of duplicating the "related_authors" approach on the wikipedia= parameter is that the internal use of {{#titleparts:}} would preclude links which contain a "/". I am aware this is a really silly example, but /etc/passwd exists, even if it is actually only a #redirect... MODCHK (talk) 11:50, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * How many times are we legitimately going come across something like BWCs example? I can just as easily take any recent executive order and bind it to 6 or 7 relevant existing pieces/persons on WP; the question then becomes if I should take it upon myself to make every work a 'top ten list' of what I think is most important to expand-upon / investigate further or not. Sometimes the perceived limitations on what or how much one can do turns out to be a good thing & I think this might be one such case. -- George Orwell III (talk) 12:12, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Umm, I thought I was agreeing with this basic point.
 * Somebody also has to make this blindingly obvious comment, so it might as well be me: Whatever is wrong with embedding links in the article text at the point right where the eventual reader may want to look them up? Sure in this case it is a short piece, but who wants to scroll to the top of the article in case there is a relevant link, especially since the sister links don't exactly advertise where they point to: ((1) Wikipedia article) vs ((4) Wikipedia article)?
 * NoBoDy - that's who! (well... at least in my opinion that is). Personally, I don't practice the typical sister-linking thing much if at all. If I need Ickipedia at some point for some reason & we don't already host that person, place or thing on its/their own for a jump-point, I just point to WP in an inline-piped link. -= either it gets utilized upon arrival or folks will effortlessly read past it; not my problem =-. This is why I'm hoping Wikidata at least manages to centralize the core info on proper people, places and things. When that info is sufficiently compiled, I'm guessing it will all be standardized and readily available through the Pageinfo (API?) thingy instead. Maybe then this circle-jerk with inter-language linking this & sister-linking that will finally start to fade (You might not have been around yet but I was never in favor of embedding stuff into the navigation header in the first place fwiw. I only work to "improve" upon it however I can because that is what the community wanted & decided; my PoV is over-ruled by that). -- George Orwell III (talk) 14:40, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Also what about multiple links, each to a local Author: page; each one of which links to exactly one wikipedia page... You know, the way it has been done for almost forever before? MODCHK (talk) 13:04, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Find a way to automate it - I don't believe people are against what you're saying but the realities of editing/profreading are all stacked against this. Having the capability in the same place, using the same practices makes it far easier to go back and link to WP as opposed to [re]proof-reading everything just for running down a half-dozen or so possible inline-link points. -- George Orwell III (talk) 14:40, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
 * A simple "No, it's not" is enough.--Mpaa (talk) 16:07, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Request local file move to Commons
Once again, I am unable to upload a file to Commons for some reason. Can someone please take the local file...
 * [//en.wikisource.org/wiki/File:SaLv124.djvu File:SaLv124.djvu]

...and overwrite my previous upload to ...
 * [//commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Statutes_at_Large_Volume_124.djvu File:United States Statutes at Large Volume 124.djvu]

Thanks in advance. -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)


 * On it. Hesperian 02:04, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. Hesperian 03:22, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

"Margin notice"
Hi, on Latin Wikisource, I imported this template la:Formula:Randnotiz rechts from the German version in order to display text written on the margin. It doesn't work so well (see la:Pagina:Hortus Malabaricus Volume 1.pdf/20 where the "Fig. 1" is displayed somewhere over the original page; while on la:Hortus Malabaricus/Liber I it appears over the rest of the text). Do you have a template which works better? :D (Unfortunately I don't know how this "concept" of writing on the margin is called in English, so I was a bit unsuccessful in searching). --MF-Warburg (talk) 02:43, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Have a look at sidenotes begin and its companion templates in either the sidenotes series or the outside series. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:12, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --MF-Warburg (talk) 02:48, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Riders of the Purple Sage
This is a long-languishing item on my to-do list. Adam suggested that this edition, which is the first edition, ought to be the one uploaded, and the file is certainly the cleanest. I noticed that page 1 is one of those "Google notices" that needs to be removed, and page 2 is the book's cover. However, I need help adjusting the Djvu accordingly, since I have never understood how to remove the Google notice. The file in question is already on Commons, and the local index file is Index:Riders of the Purple Sage.djvu. Note that the index file has been set up according to the way the file should look once the Google notice has been removed. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:17, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! The second task I'll need help with is getting the four images prepped and uploaded (five, if you count the publisher's mark on the title page). The Index page has all the image locations identified, and there is a clean copy at the Hathi Trust. The images should be uploaded to commons:Category:Riders of the Purple Sage. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:25, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Addendum: I take it back. The scans of the images at the Hathi Trust are terrible, with chromatic interference patterning that destroys the image. Wherever someone can find clean images, please use that. The original source of our djvu file at the Internet Archive appears to have been a PDF, so it's not a good choice either. If we can't find a clean copy online, we might have to rescan ourselves, if someone has access to an original edition. At least there are only four images needed. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:20, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm doing an image run with HesperianBot as we speak. Let us see how it fares. There are a lot of ifs, but if it succeeds in following the trail from the Commons page to the archive.org page, identifying the right zip file, downloading it, identifying and extracting the correct image file for each page with a raw or missing image tag, converting it from tif to png, and, after all that, if the images therein are of an acceptable quality, then your problem will be solved. :-) Hesperian 06:44, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It didn't work, and when I attempted manual extraction I found that the scan images in the zip are just as awful as they djvu images. Not worth pursuing. Hesperian 10:43, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said, we might have to go with original scans or photos. I do notice that in commons:Category:Riders of the Purple Sage there is a photo of the title page and frontispiece.  The user who uploaded that image has been active on Commons as recently as this past May.  Someone who knows the requirements for images might contact them about whether they still have access to that copy of the book.  I don't do work with images (yet) because I don't have image manipulation software suitable for dealing with quality images. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:47, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The original scans of the book come by the way of GoogleBooks' digitization project so the notion that there are other sources for this book are slim to none. The available full view GoogleBooks copies for the 1912 edition are all at least 5 years old or more to boot (you'll find the exact link way down near the bottom of the info found on Archive.org's host page). A quick look through the images available thru GoogleBooks aren't much better than the those found on Archive.org but they are at least full sized ones & have a better chance of being workable than what we currently have (the image pages in the DjVu file are about a third of the size of all the other pages in case you haven't notice thanks to our thumbnail resizing in the Page: namespace). -- George Orwell III (talk) 20:07, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I haven't looked at all the options at GoogleBooks, but I have checked every copy at the Internet Archive, most or all of which seem to have come from GoogleBooks. They're all very old (in internet terms), all with extremely poor quality images, and some have even had the images stripped out.  So, I don't put a lot of hope in finding on-line images either.  I've left a message with the person at Commons whom I mentioned above. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:11, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * FWIW, there are only 3 or 4 available full veiw versions of the 1912 edition available to me here in the U.S. on GoogleBooks; maybe other locales will have more options. Regardless, the primary concern here should be reproducing/replacing the text, followed by securing quality images (if and when that is possible of course). -- George Orwell III (talk) 20:21, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't anticipate any further problems with the text, now that the source file is up and corrected. But, as the images may take some time to track down and process, I'd like to get a head start on that issue. Although our priority should be text first, that doesn't mean that the one must be completed before the other is begun.  The text can proceed apace at the same time as a search for images, yes? --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:39, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * To each his own... There is no "right" way to approach this; only the most logical or most efficient way (in my opinion). Since images are moot for most mobile device viewers anyway - and a general pain in the azz to secure & produce correctly - I prioritize them dead last in order to theoretically satisfy the largest number of potential readers with the most complete high-quality content that's possible. Otherwise; why bother with visiting WS at all? I can read what we're hosting now directly from IA (warts and all) or from Project Guttenberg. Of course, this is just my opinion; not policy. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:03, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * My own view is that the images we process serve a greater good. Once they're uploaded on Commons, they are useable not only here, but also on Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikispecies, and other MW projects.  Their presence then serves to promote what we do here, and to raise awareness of this project, in a way that goes beyond the mere availability of the text which (as you say) may already be accessed from many locations. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:07, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * All points well taken and am 100% in principled agreement with here... but I just don't see any evidence of that approach outpacing [my] the view that complete and accurate transcribed text, albeit wikified instead of pure HTML/XML, is still the only current "advantage" WS has over similar outlets. The benefits of producing high quality images in addition to the goal of providing complete and accurate transcriptions as near as possible to the original seem marginal at best (at least for me that is). Had we the traffic comparable to the kind enjoyed by Wikipedia, imho you'd be absolutely in the driver's seat here with your POV. But when auto-logins out pace main page views somewhere in the ratio of 10 to 1, I become more concerned with proving ourselves as useful to the potential reader/researcher than I am with rounding out what I consider the more aesthetic aspects of hosting works. Don't get me wrong, sometimes the inclusion of a diagram or a map is indeed paramount to remaining true to the original content in our transcriptions; how blurry it is another matter altogether for me however. Again, there is no "right" answer regarding any of this, I'm just glad that we have regular contributors who care enough to voice such nuances in the first place. Prost. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:00, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

A poem with a reference which also contains a poem
Can someone please help and look at this PAGE? The poem at the end of the page contains a second reference which also contains a poem and I can’t seem to place the reference number to match the original. — Ineuw talk 03:28, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅. Don't use poem tags is the simple answer. I'm sure there's a more complex one, but let's not go there. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:48, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Great - thanks for the advice and the help.— Ineuw talk 05:02, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Author: pages for "non-standard" author names
I have just (tentatively) created Author:Chu Hsi, with author index references at both Authors-Hs and Authors-Hs. Both? I suspect neither index is correct, as frankly my (non-existent) Chinese is not nearly good enough to even guess at this gentleman's proper surname. For a completely bewildering list of "translation-aliases", have a look at his VIAF entry (18 "preferred forms"; 197 "alternate name forms".) Whilst I have no doubt whatsoever of the validity of this author, I am almost certain my efforts at creating an entry for him will all require re{vision,version,creation}. Can anybody please recommend a preferred approach to creating Author: pages for this class of person? MODCHK (talk) 01:10, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * In modern usage, his name is transcribed as Zhu Xi. The form Chu Hsi uses the older Wade-Giles transcription, which has been superceded in both China and the West by Pinyin.  It's the same reason we now call Chungking Chongqing, or why Peking is now Beijing.  I'd use the modern Pinyin form as the primary one for his Author page. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:55, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks EncycloPetey. I encountered this name in a Giles work (Index:Gems of Chinese literature (1922).djvu) so this answer is not entirely surprising. However, my basic issue of the family-name-index assumptions of Author: space still remains an unaddressed open question… MODCHK (talk) 02:32, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * When I created Author:Deng Xiaoping, I set up the author template as:-

{{author | firstname   = Xiaoping | lastname    = Deng | invert_names = yes | last_initial = De
 * Deng is useful here because you can see the same sorting on various sister projects. In your case, I would say that Chu (or Zhu, if you prefer) is the surname and Hsi (Xi) is the personal name, so everything should be sorted by "Chu". - AdamBMorgan (talk) 03:31, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) Umm... you're half right. Zhu (Chu) is the only part that is a name.  Xi is an honorific title, and translates reasonably well as "Master", so it's actually not his given name.  However, it is always included when discussing him, so it shouldn't be omitted either. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:03, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * In which case it works a little like the Saints, Monarchs and others with titles (eg. Author:Saint John) and still sorts by Zhu (Chu). Treating Hsi (Xi) as the first name is still probably the best way to do this. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 17:14, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the suggestions. I clearly have not followed them correctly, because now this author sorts in Category:Authors-Ch under "H." Can somebody please spot my apparent mistake? (Oh: forgot to swap the invert_names swapped names. D'oh!™) MODCHK (talk) 04:01, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * See my inserted reply above. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:03, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * {{outdent talk|3}}Thank you―both―for your advice and guidance. I think I've got it right now (even if for perhaps the wrong reasons) so if anything still looks wrong to anybody please feel free to fix it. This is clearly another exercise in learning. MODCHK (talk) 01:14, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

how do I make the page tag exclude a section?
Does anyone know how to use the page tag to exclude a particular section without breaking inline flow? See The Galaxy/Volume 24/Number 2/The Picture Season in London, where there is a line break at the end of the first page, caused by my exclusion of a footer which I have transcluded elsewhere. Hesperian 07:15, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Check it agian - I'm sure there is a better way (or a more correct way) to pull that off, but it escapes me at 4 in the morning. Still; it worked! :) -- George Orwell III (talk) 08:08, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks; in hindsight that was pretty obvious, darn it. Hesperian 00:35, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Poems with numbering
This question should be asked in Ukrainian Wikisource basically, but as the community there is not really active, I'm seeking help here. Are there existing templates that might be used to achieve numbering like on this page? If not, what would be the best way to go? A table? --DixonD (talk) 07:25, 26 June 2013 (UTC) with the whole lot wrapped in block center templates). Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:56, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I suggest that you use shift left for the first line of each stanza and set the remaining lines in the usual way (i.e. don't use poem tags, but
 * Thank you for your suggestion! It looks good here, however there is one inconvenience with this approach: when the numbering goes from one-digit to two-digit, we have to adjust intervals for shifting. --DixonD (talk) 08:31, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm. You're right (of course) and a 1 takes less space than an 8. I've had a play myself with pline. Have a look at User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox4. Obviously for your purpose you would need to version this template and change the colour and size of the stanza numbers, but this might work. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, now it looks perfect. Thank you very much for help! --DixonD (talk) 11:11, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Img float and unwanted paragraph break
Please look at Page:An Introduction to the Study of Fishes.djvu/70. The first call to img float does not force the start of a new paragraph, but the second one does. I don't understand why this is happening, but it certainly is not desirable. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:09, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Addendum: This behavior does not occur when the page is transcluded into the Main namespace, even though it occurs in the Page namespace. Weird. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

= Requests for assistance =

Justified text block template?
I am looking for a template which justifies a block of text along the lines of the templates {{Left|, or {{Right|. I am aware that there is a natural justification, but the one I was looking for is with two user specified parameters. width, and L, C, or R float.— Ineuw talk 00:22, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Before I misunderstand what you're looking for specifically, why don't you point to me to an example where this is needed by you. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:43, 14 February 2013 (UTC)


 * This image caption is a good example where the caption width shouldn't exceed the image width in the main namespace. As you can see, I've been using tables, but I thought that a template with an optional parameters would be quicker to define and more elegant. Now, I realize with all the possible user defined parameters, perhaps I should keep using a table, or at least a table imbedded in a template. — Ineuw talk 03:35, 14 February 2013 (UTC)


 * A couple of possibilities: a) Use {{tlp|block center|width=XXXpx|text}}, where XXX=width of image. What you could do is then use {{tl|justify}} on the text within. Much easier than fiddling with tables. See Mr. Punch's Book of Sports for examples of this. Alternatively, use {{tlp|img float|2=file=filename|3=align=center|4=width=XXXpx|5=cap={{tlp|justify|text}}}} per example at User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox4. The advantage with the second possibility is that if one wants to float the image to the left or right of the page, one just changes the "align" field. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:00, 14 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Beeswaxcandle, Thanks for pointing me to the {{tl|justify}} template. Including your instruction, that's exactly what I wanted. — Ineuw talk 19:48, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

How to add a file for inline reference
Here is the file File:Affidavit AY from Phil Lib to SRF 1953.jpg - I tried to make it an inline citation but it didn't work. Any suggestions? Is this how without the brackets- wikisource-inline|File:Affidavit AY from Phil Lib to SRF 1953.jpg |Legal Transfer Affidavit of Autobiography of a Yogi from Philosophical Library to Self-Realization Fellowship Thank you!Red Rose 13 (talk) 13:10, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I'm not sure if we can host this image here. I may be wrong though, mostly as I don't know the laws on something of this nature; did the Philosophical library make it public domain or something? Did you scan it yourself or maybe pull it from the Philosophical Library? - Theornamentalist (talk) 13:23, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
 * In what sense do you mean "inline citation"? Wikisource is not Wikipedia and I can't think why you would have to cite anything.  If you mean an annotation, we have no templates for that (the draft policy should be around by the end of the month, however).  In that case, and assuming a clearly identified annotated work,   would be a start. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 19:30, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Problem logging in as User:Thekohser
Something strange is happening. (I am User:Thekohser here, in good standing on Wikisource.) When I try to sign into my account, I get the notice: Login error Incorrect password or confirmation code entered. Please try again. Even if I try to reset my password via e-mail, I get the same notice using the temporary password. This phenomenon is what happened when at one time my account was inappropriately placed under a "Global lock", which was decided by an out-of-process discussion between two administrators on another Wikimedia wiki. A Wikisource bureaucrat saw that the "lock" was inappropriate, and my User name was renamed, then named back again to "Thekohser", which had the nifty effect of undoing the global lock, at least as far as Wikisource is concerned. Is it possible that the new WMF "single user authentication" thingy they are working on had re-instituted the inane global lock on my account? I ask if someone with the necessary tools could please look into this matter, and then notify me here (in public) and/or via private e-mail (my user name, at gmail). Note, this problem is also happening on (for example) Wikimedia Commons, which is another project where I am in good standing and the global lock was worked around. -- 2001:558:1400:10:79C9:1DF9:AC6D:32BB 17:34, 15 May 2013 (UTC) (as, Thekohser)
 * Hmmm.... I wonder if any of this applies to you - please see Scriptorium and touch back here. -- George Orwell III (talk) 19:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't see anything that would be causing this. The block action page and the blocklist confirm there is a global lock but no local block.  You probably need a bureaucrat, or someone from meta, to have a look.  The single user login changes were my first thought too but as the SUL account was already around I don't think it should have made a difference; all previous notices were about potential conflicts between non-SUL accounts. NB: Special:CentralAuth/Thekohser and Commons:Special:BlockList/Thekohser say you are explicitly blocked on Commons, however. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 19:56, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Please weigh in at Meta with your opinion. -- 2001:558:1400:10:AC59:E4DF:6A5C:CD23 19:56, 16 May 2013 (UTC) (as, Thekohser)
 * To note that accounts of the same name, and email address have been unified if they could be, and therefore the global lock that had been applied to the account has now been reapplied by the system. Thekohser has made a request to have their global account unlocked. That said, I am not certain that an encouragement for comment is exactly how a process that we encourage. — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

doesn't recognise the existing .djvu source
Created QST March 1916 to transclude this Index:March 1916 QST.djvu, but it reports that there is no such index. Can someone please let me know what I am doing wrong? — Ineuw talk 11:11, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Needed to drop the  namespace-prefix part. -- George Orwell III (talk) 12:50, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks GO3.— Ineuw talk 12:58, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

References appear at the top of the page
Proofread this page and the references show up at the top of the page. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? — Ineuw talk 18:31, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Well that one beat me. I know the "problem" is that there is no place for the ref list to be "created" other than at the top where the phoney paragraph spacer (or in this case the NOP) usually goes. I can't get it load after the table no matter how much spacing/padding/line-breaks I added after the closing table tag in the bottom noinclude section.
 * The current Page: might not be "pretty to look at" this way but its the mainspace transclusion that should really matter (still, I'm wondering if anybody else can come up with a fix). Sorry. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:15, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks GO3. No matter, I am curious where this will end up when it's transcluded. :-).— Ineuw talk 21:30, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Does [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page%3APalestine_Exploration_Fund_-_Quarterly_Statement_for_1894.djvu%2F80&diff=4534576&oldid=4534322 this] produce the effect you wanted? I don't entirely know why the trick works (and hope it is not limited to my browser.) MODCHK (talk) 22:58, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Kewl! It works because you're placing the ref-list in its own table - which is just fine in this case. I don't know how that additional NOP will affect the final transclusion of the entire span of tables though (might not affect anything at all - fingers crossed). -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:52, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree (regarding the citations going inside the table.) However what I don't really understand is why the lower NOP gets chosen preferentially. Regarding transclusion the noincludes ought to rule it out of contention... MODCHK (talk) 00:20, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
 * My bad - thought the 2nd NOP was outside the bottom no-include. Anyway if you look now you'll see the wikicode's urge to auto close table-cell/table-row wiki-markups is easily defeated if straight HTML tags are substituted at the key "boundary points" (no need for 2nd NOP then). The entire header/footer no-include approach is more trouble than its worth and this instance shows why the entire premise needs a serious re-work. -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:27, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Eep. I won't say that isn't clever… and it certainly works… but it would be a brave person would come up with that solution up-front and expect it not to break the parser. In fact, I'm not too sure you'd always get away with mixing wikicode and pure HTML like that. I suspect coding the lot in raw HTML might be the safest/most comprehensible way—in which case what is mediawiki really doing for us other than supplying the editor? MODCHK (talk) 01:48, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Right - just illustrating a point there & not recommending Users: follow my variant at all - the point was to make clear the 2nd NOP was not really the solution but an acceptable work-around. In the real world, the closing table-cell (/TD) tag is understood (& applied) if the next element detected is either the closing table-row (/TR) tag or another opening table-cell (TD) tag but that cannot hold true in the wikiworld. Opening/closing tags are replaced with a single set of symbols. In order to fulfill this "double duty", the auto-generation of closing tags is put before any actual need' for such termination (& when to apply it) - which makes trying to align the end of a table-row found before one page's non-included footer section with the next page's header & opening of a new row one big headache more often than not. The Wiki mark-up just wasn't designed with Wikisource's "mission" in mind and the approach to building HTML tables clearly reflects that. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:24, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Umm, why this level of complexity? Just use MODCHK's trick of putting a nop in the footer before the |}. See Page:The Campaign of the Jungle.djvu/15 for an example. An alternative is to leave a blank line after the last |- in the body and another before the |} in the footer. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:35, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Need help getting scans
Hi! I am trying to get this magazine, called "The Russian Review" from Hathi Trust, but it only allows me to get it page by page (because my IP address is not in US, I presume). Please, somebody, upload it to the Commons, djvu preferred, I am keen to transcript few very rare works from it. The whole lot is three volumes approx. 300 pages each. The thing is 100% kosher, first published in USA in 1916-1917, copyright not renewed. Thank you a lot!!! Captain Nemo (talk) 02:39, 12 September 2013 (UTC).

Byrd speech as actually spoken
I'm not familiar with the policies around here regarding recorded vs. published speeches (and Portal:Speeches wasn't very helpful in this regard), so I'm asking here: what happens when the published version of a speech differs from the recorded version of it? To be specific, I just compared our text of Senator Robert Byrd's "The Arrogance of Power" speech (given before the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq) to YouTube video(s) of the speech recorded off of C-SPAN2, and I found [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=The_Arrogance_of_Power&diff=4494093&oldid=4280868 many differences]. In such a case, do we ignore the words that were actually spoken and go with the (presumably) "official" written version? Do we use the published version and note where different words were spoken in footnotes? In in-line brackets? Do we host both versions separately (e.g., by treating the C-SPAN broadcast as a separate "publication")? (See also my talk page post at Talk:The Arrogance of Power.) - dcljr (talk) 10:04, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think we have a policy on this. Hosting both separately seems like the best solution (with links between them in the headers).  If the recording is available, it would be good to add that too, although the copyright presumably belongs to C-SPAN in this case. It should still be listed as the source so it can be verified if/when necessary. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 13:19, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Sigh... OK, now my talk page comment is at Talk:America's Image in the World. I think the former page should have been left as a redirect. But whatever. - dcljr (talk) 23:30, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Your previous comments are preserved on the new talk-page and you beat me to updating that new link here is all that has happened. The re-direct that really matters, the one in mainspace, was preserved just fine. We seem to be in the old time warp thing where your comments lead my actions and vise versa.... let's take a breath an re-examine everything moving forward.
 * (and YES I will be doing the same to McCain's response if you can wait just a bit longer. TIA.) -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:50, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't find a policy on this - don't need one - in this case because all Remarks formally recognized then made on the floor of the United States Senate are dutifully recorded and diligently transcribed AS GIVEN into the official Congressional Record. What we "had" been hosting all this time, and frequently is the case around here before this patriot came along & noticed the difference, is most likely the "hand-out" or press release versions of the prepared remarks provided to/for/by third-parties for any number of the usual [and innocent] reasons. Versions like this are rarely if ever exactly as actually spoken - even when they originate from the person that made the remarks themselves (nobody goes back and amends their own prepared speech to reflect any changes that might have occurred when it was given do they? Nope.) Stuff like this is why I personally get frustrated with my fellow countrymen and plays a part in the ever growing misinformation stupidization (not a real word) of the American voting population in general. Coupled with the commercialization of what was once a Free and Reliable press here in the U.S., instances like this, where the "reported" content does not match the actual content (or worse - becomes parsed), have been increasing at an exponential rate for more than a decade now. I cannot stress enough how critical it is to verify; then trust (screw Reagan too) when it comes to content of this nature generated in the post cable-news era - You Just Can't Trust Any of It at First Glance. While this instance seems to be the innocent tweaking of a Senator's prepared remarks while being given on the floor of the Senate followed by the poor/lazy reporting on the part of the news media culminating with us hosting an inaccurate transcription of those remarks, there are far more devious and deceitful examples of 'report what we want you to report and not what was actually said' so being diligent on the sourcing of such content absolves en.WS of unwittingly playing any role in perpetuating such constructed misdirection (in addition; C-SPAN is neat and nice to have around to call upon as a reference source but the Congressional Record has the additional benefits of being a lawfully recognized source in any U.S. court of law (in in other words 'is evidence' if need be) not to mention a percentage of your taxes makes it yours to begin with, so why bother injecting 3rd party middle-middlemen into the equation if you don't have to?).  Nobody should care that Salon.com got the transcription wrong or that Sen. Byrd's staff is just as lazy as Salon's reporters were - It should be no surprise to anyone by now that both politicians and the media work together at times and/or conspire against each other at times with the ultimate goal to secure more votes on the one hand and obtain higher ratings for the other . Find something just as erroneous or worse in the official, tax-payer funded, non-partisan Congressional Record and then you should start to be concerned (or even better - you have uncovered a real conspiracy!)  -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:23, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Now who needs to "take a breath"? [w] Anyway, thank you for replacing the text with a more reliable version. I take from your description of remarks in the CR as having been "dutifully recorded and diligently transcribed AS GIVEN" that the CR is supposed to be an accurate record of what was actually said. Unfortunately, they still didn't get it completely right, as you can verify by simply listening to the C-SPAN2 recording(s). But... it is a lot closer than what we had there before — and, as you point out, the version in the CR is treated as if it is correct, so I suppose that's what we'll end up doing, as well (much as Wikipedia policy can favor incorrect information from "reliable sources" over correct information, in some cases). - dcljr (talk) 05:30, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * For the record (no pun intended), at Talk:America's Image in the World I have drawn up a table detailing the differences between what was published in the Congressional Record and what Byrd actually said (AFAICT) in the C-SPAN2 recordings on YouTube. This particular issue can be discussed further on that page (although note that I disagree with George's judgment that we don't need a policy to cover this sort of thing, since clearly the CR can be wrong — and significantly so, in some cases — about what was said on the Senate [or House] floor — and that more general point obviously can be discussed further here, if desired). - dcljr (talk) 07:53, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Its not a matter of discovering something transcribed is not accurate but a matter of how do we host something like that? Granted, even the audio & video generated by a Federal employee during the course of their official duties are probably exempt from being copyrighted just like any other government document but we'd need to steal a copy from someone and make it our own & then put it up on Commons I suppose. Maybe then it would make sense to provide another text transcript in addition to the existing Congressional Record version - otherwise I just don't see the point of adding to what would amount to another copy & paste where it's verification depends on something that is hosted elsewhere. -- George Orwell III (talk) 08:42, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * C-SPAN actually provides a voluminous digital archive of their video content, including (apparently) all of their coverage of House and Senate proceedings. Video of Byrd's 2003 speech is still available on their website (starting at 06:08:29), and presumably will continue to be so into the foreseeable future (hence, we can link to it as a source). I assume the same could be said of several other similar speeches we have around here (McCain's response to Byrd's speech, of course, but also any other speech made on the floor of the House or Senate in the last however-many years). Therefore, this issue doesn't boil down to whether we can host a local copy of such a video but instead whether we will accept such a video per se as a source. (Obviously we shouldn't rely on second-hand copies on YouTube as a matter of policy — that's just what I had to work with in this particular instance, before I found C-SPAN's archive.) Simply put: I think our text of a speech should reflect as closely as possible what was actually said during that speech. In the past, this meant using a printed transcript published after the fact; today it should mean using a "live recording" when it's available. Our policies and guidelines are currently heavily skewed toward printed sources, for obvious reasons. I guess we have to decide whether our purpose in providing texts of speeches is to accurately reflect a printed version of the speech or the speech itself. - dcljr (talk) 02:40, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * C-SPAN provides such speeches on a per-the-person-speaking basis as well as in the context of an entire session (as was mentioned above). So if one visits Byrd's bio page on C-SPAN, they would have found the speech in question as a stand-alone clip as well.
 * Nevertheless, the issue is more about copyright/access and what they allow us to host rather than anything else First. Even following the best interpretation of C-SPAN's re-use policies, its still not as crystal clear as operating directly under Title 17's copyright exclusion for Federal generated works. Second comes the general accepted practice that transcriptions based upon video or audio should be annotated with intervals indicating the timestamps of the beginning, the passage of time covering the content, and the ending. These two reasons are basically why the preference has been to go with the copyright-free GPO provided text sources over audio or video -- its just a lot easier and less problematic at the end of the day. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:57, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * C-SPAN's copyright notice clearly states that "Video coverage of the debates originating from the chambers of the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate is in the public domain and as such, may be used without restriction or attribution." So that would appear to be the end of that argument. By my reading (although IANAL), this would even allow us to actually upload their video of Hyde's speech (or, indeed, even the full day's coverage, if we wanted to) to Commons. However, I am not recommending that we do this. We don't have to: we just need to link to it. Now, since C-SPAN doesn't claim a copyright to the video itself, how could they possibly claim copyright to the content of a transcript of the video — even complete with timestamps? Unless I've missed something very important, I don't see how either of your concerns are actual problems. As for your final "easier" remark: I would hope that we would value accuracy over expediency (something I actually almost included in my previous comment, but took out before I posted it). - dcljr (talk) 23:55, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Nothing here is an issue; merely an explaination of why things have developed the way they have. It still boils down to hosting the video in addition to its transcription. Currently we try to host the scans in addition to the transcription of those scans. And all I've tried to rebuke so far is your unfair claim we are being intentionally biased towards text when the truth is we are biased to hosting the [scans of] the original in addition to the transcription/proofreading of it. Text was/is just easier to manipulate and that is why it became more popular than other formats. You can link to C-SPAN all you like (& fwiw... I link to the Federal Register for Executive Orders much the same way you describe linking to C-SPAN but I also provide scans of the Annual Code of Federal Regulations - Title 3 to back the transcriptions, if need be, so there is still a difference in standards of validation between your approach and the approach practiced by the vast majority of contributors to date) - nobody is saying you can't do what it is your saying. And, all I'm saying is without hosting the source, be it a scan or a video, not hosting the source here locally (i.e. on Commons) amounts to nothing different than any other copy and paste of unsourced content to WS is. I didn't promote that perception - the reading traffic to date has (but I'm not as "lazy" as most visitors are; I actually follow the linked external sources). Your mileage may vary. -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:03, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
 * George is correct to encourage you to have the original source hosted in the WMF family. While not currently policy, there is a strong tendency to dis-value content without verifiable sources.  Should C-span no longer make the source available there is potential for your work to be deleted in the future. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 10:27, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Pagelist for a book with two page numbers on each page
Could anybody help me to fill in the "pagelist" parameter for this index page? The problem is that each page has two columns and each column has its separate page number. --DixonD (talk) 14:50, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
 * To me it looks OK, I would have done the same.--Mpaa (talk) 18:19, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

HathiTrust
Does anybody has access to HathiTrust? I've found some books there that are certainly in public domain in US and the country of origin, but I cannot download them from there as I'm not affiliated with any partner institution. --DixonD (talk) 14:02, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Customisation of the vector toolbar
Hello, I started to import this book which containes some special characters. To help me, I decided to add a tab to my vector toolbar with this code that I call from common.js. The first time I added this code, it worked perfectly but the day after, it did not work anymore. To you have any idea why? And could you help me to fix it? Thanks in advance. Pamputt (talk) 07:29, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Pamputt/biloxi.js&diff=4506419&oldid=4503184 found] the problem. It was stupid... Pamputt (talk) 18:38, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Kubla Khan contributor note
What's going on with the first note on the Kubla Khan page? I was about to delete it because it appeared empty, yet there is text there. The second note seems to be displaying correctly, but not this one. I've looked through the wikitext and it looks right, so I'm not sure what's wrong. Matt Deres (talk) 15:27, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed. The problem was caused by the colon used to indent the last line of the refnote. Replaced it with gap. —Clockery Fairfield (talk) 15:38, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Matt Deres (talk) 18:26, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Agriculture, farm tractors from beginning to present

 * Agriculture, farm tractors from beginning to present. How they have affected our culture through the years.

I am seeking some information as part of a school project. I am looking for information on antique farm tractors that date back from the beginning ( the first one produced) to present day. I would like for the information to cover, John Deere, Massey-Ferguson and New Holland brands.
 * We don't have much about agriculture on this project at the moment. It's probably better to ask at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous instead.  They should be able to help more. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 17:10, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

OTRS issue?
re: [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Guideline_on_environmentally_sound_testing,_refurbishment_%26_repair_of_used_computing_equipment]

I tried sending the proper copyright permissions but the address failed. What address can I use to get you the proper authority?


 * The deletion says it was per a CopyVio ruling on Commons for source file, in that case the correct email would be to contact commons at permissions-commons@wikimedia.org once the works are restored there, they can be considered for restoration here by posting a request at Possible copyright violations, be sure to read What Wikisource includes to see if the content is appropriate for this site before requesting restoration. Jeepday (talk) 13:09, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

TOC tweak
Could I please bug someone to tweak this page? Thank you, Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:36, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Any closer to what you want? MODCHK (talk) 21:57, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Much closer, thanks ... but for the dotted lines, which (in my browser) don't follow through all the way to the page numbers (the first line shows seven dots ... subsequent lines show five. In my browser, you'd need nine to reach the page numbers).  Do they match up for you? Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:54, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You are, of course, quite correct... now? MODCHK (talk) 05:17, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Perfect. Thank you. Londonjackbooks (talk) 05:23, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Anyone using Linux for Proofreading?
I am attempting to slowly move my work to Xubuntu. The current problem is how to define and use the keyboard to compose rarely used ligatures etc., without having to revert to the characters list at the bottom of the page. When proofreading in Windows, I use the memorized ANSI keycode combinations with Alt+Numpad, as well as custom Wiki edit buttons for the most frequently used characters. Thanks in advance.— Ineuw talk 17:56, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I use linux for almost all my editing. One linux standard is the use of the compose key (often the Right alt key). To make an æ press compose, then a, then e. It works for accents (e.g. compose + " + u --> ü; compose+ > + o --> ô) and other characters as well. See for more details. You may need to enable it in the Xfce settings somewhere though. I'm happy to help with any other questions you may have to make your proofreading easier.  MarkLSteadman (talk) 20:12, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You’re my hero. :-) I know what you’re talking about. I tried to make the Left Alt key my Compose key but I couldn’t make it work as yet. Then, I tried to follow the Ubuntu forum links on the subject but unfortunately the but site is down because its password security has been compromised. Please check it out - in case it’s important for you. — Ineuw talk 22:01, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Where you able to make it work? You can add your own custom key combinations to it as well by modifying the appropriate files (in case you are trying to use a rarely, rarely used ligature). I did some googling and saw this ubuntu.com reference as a way to change the compose key in Xubuntu. I'm on OpenSUSE(laptop) and Debian stable(desktop) at the moment but I used Ubuntu for several years, never signed up for ubuntuforums though… MarkLSteadman (talk) 22:33, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. I read that page. Xfce 4.10 is installed and I changed XKBOPTIONS= to "compose:lalt", logged out & in but it didn’t work as yet. Then, switched to another page to read on, when I got the Ubuntu Forums message. So, bookmarked everything and took a break from Xubuntu until tomorrow because I would like to continue proofreading later tonight.— Ineuw talk 22:51, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I did some investigating. The options for that file are in /usr/shar/X11/xkb/rules and the valid options for the compose setting are ralt, lwin, rwin, menu, lctrl, rctrl, caps, 102 (not sure what this actually is, described as Less/Greater), paus (pause), prsc (printscreen), and sclk (scroll lock). I am sure there is a way to hack it even more to allow you to use the left alt key, but my suggestion would be to pick one of those options. MarkLSteadman (talk) 20:56, 22 July 2013 (UTC)


 * (Also waves regarding being a Linux proofer―barely anybody will remember Slackware.) Alternate to MarkLSteadman's suggestion: if you should happen to use Firefox, I highly recommend extension "abcTajpu." Although the documentation on this feature is not great, once I realised its user-defined macros are actually regular-expression based (probably a poor example: "M *'=Mᶜ")… MODCHK (talk) 22:51, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Transwikify:Tagore to surendra nath banerjee to Hindi Wikisource or Wikipedia.
Could someone please transwikify the above to Hindi Wikisource or Hindi Wikipedia (I'm not sure which one is appropriate). According to the edit history the title in English is History of Indian Rastara Gaan and Rastra Geet. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 20:56, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Quot mark size before drop initial
How again can I make the quotation marks normal size before the drop initial? [ See ] Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:50, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You can use float left in front of the template. I've done this page that way. —Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 15:13, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:19, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

nsPage: OCR is not displayed
In the last couple of days, when I open a page in edit mode, the OCR original doesn’t show up. I suspect that the server cache may not having been cleared. Could/Would this be the reason for the problem? — Ineuw talk 20:34, 28 July 2013 (UTC) P.S: by OCR, I am referring to the original scan.
 * It's been happening intermittently to me also. Only seems to occur when creating the page for the first time. An F5 refresh seems to kick it back into action. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:39, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * After posting this, when I clear/refresh cache with the clock gadget, before opening the page in edit mode, it works but still slow. Normally, this only happens in mid-day on a business day but now it’s the weekend here.— Ineuw talk 21:22, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * This is still a no go. Today it’s worse than yesterday. Tinkered with the browser cache then set the OCR resolution to 999 and then 1001 on the Index page, but it didn’t make a difference and the problem persists. Is there a way for the admins to check the server cache has been cleared?— Ineuw talk 00:02, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Forgive my ignorance, but the problem relates to the ~900 page files of PSM volumes and not to smaller works which work fine. However, this was not the case earlier. Perhaps I should address this issue elsewhere? Thanks.— Ineuw talk 20:19, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Whatever was done (if anything), by whoever, for the prior 30 minutes, everything is functioning normally. Thanks. — Ineuw talk 02:12, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

OGL and Wikisource?
Hi! I just wonder... is it possible/legal to publish SRD of DnD 3.5 and other OGL games at Wikisource? I am not talking about making your own RPG that would be based on SRD, just publishing it as it is.--Kaworu1992 (talk) 02:32, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * After a quick check: maybe. The provisions of the Open Game License sound a lot like a Creative Commons licence (with the Attribution and ShareAlike components).  I can't say for sure, however.  Anything covered by Product Identity would probably not be hostable on Wikisource as parts remain protected by copyright.  Anything beyond the text of the licence itself, and possibly the SRD, would need to be licensed under Creative Commons as well to cover unique intellectual property (ie. any setting details, races, character classes and so on).  That might limit any complete OGL games being hosted here.  (FYI, "OGL" can also mean "Open Government Licence", a British government equivalent of Creative Commons, so the abbreviation alone might get confusing.) - AdamBMorgan (talk) 13:45, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I just wanted to "store" SRD and nothing beyond it ;-) Thx for advice ;-) --Kaworu1992 (talk) 14:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Short title template
I tried to document this (forgot to log in) - and it's quite frankly a mess.. Help! ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:02, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry for responding so late, but is this better? I'd done a little, but forgotten to post it here. I have an amazing memory—it surprises me how much I can forget. :) —Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 13:45, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Removing match arrows from a page?
I don't think it's terribly helpful to have interlanguage match links (⇔) at Category:Noindexed pages; is it possible to somehow turn them off on a page-by-page basis? It Is Me Here  t / c 05:05, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that I understand what you're getting at given that you've just added an iw link to this category. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:47, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I mean, is it possible for just the iw links to be listed without the ⇔ arrows next to them? I take it that the point of the ⇔ button is to allow you to simultaneously read a source text in the original and in translation; but, if I'm right on that, then there is no benefit having those interwiki-comparison links for maintenance pages like the one described. It Is Me Here  t / c 14:40, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Diaries of Court Ladies of Old Japan
I'm being given an "Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "{"." on this page, which did not show up in any of the component pages, but I cannot determine the cause. Please, can someone help? --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:18, 9 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It's coming from Pd/1923, but I can't see how yet. Hesperian 02:23, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * (e/c) ✅ PD/1923 requires another field with the date of death. I've swapped to PD-1923. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:24, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:31, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

alignment of cells in table
Using the example below, is there a way to set alignment of the cells containing the author's names to the right? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 05:26, 9 August 2013 (UTC) <pre style="overflow:auto;">


 * This will probably make somebody cry, but what about:

<pre style="overflow:auto;">

-? MODCHK (talk) 05:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)


 * (e/c) Alternatively, swap the 2-1-1 templates to 1-r-1. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:06, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

or <pre style="overflow:auto;">

produces:

Moondyne (talk) 06:20, 9 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks all! I think I'll go with BWC's version.  It's simpler, and I like the [auto] width rendering better.  I'm not used to doing tables this way, so I don't exactly know how to format between pages yet.  I am reworking the TOC, etc. for Armistice Day; the first TOC page is complete(?) here.  Slowly but surely.  Thanks again, Londonjackbooks (talk) 06:33, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * For the between pages put the TOC end in the footer of the first page, and TOC begin in the header of the second. You still need a nop at the beginning of the body on the second page. In other words, you're using templates to create the table code instead of doing it explicitly with table style in the various cells. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:52, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Noted. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 07:35, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Are there opportunities here to update Help:Beginner%27s_guide_to_typography ? JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 10:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean by that. I don't see anything here that qualifies as strictly a typographical issue.  Thjis sort of thing might belong on a new page about formatting tables of contents of works.  TOCs often have lots of fiddly bits that make most editors shy away from them, so a Help page on TOCs specifically might be a good idea. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:31, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking along these lines as well. I'll see if I can come up with something over the next week or so. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:38, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Pages missing in text
Unfortunately, I have found that there are two pages missing in this text: actual pp. 354 & 355. I tried to find another source at Google books & Archive, but to no avail. I guess I have to leave it for now. Suggestions welcomed... Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:47, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Well the least I can do for the work is insert 2 blank place-holders for the missing pages but I'd like to leave the idea of looking around for replacements hanging around a bit if that is OK with you. Maybe folks in other geographic regions will have a chance to see this need and look for replacements in databases not open to the rest of us that way. -- George Orwell III (talk) 20:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Can I still continue working on pages up to the missing pages (or did I misunderstand)?  Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I should have access to a paper copy which I can scan and add in a week or so. MarkLSteadman (talk) 20:21, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
 * That's great & thank you. LJB, you can work up to the point where the pages are missing for now and I'll insert the place-holders in a bit so work can continue past that point as well ( but wait until the existing pages after the missing ones get bulk moves via BOT request first ). -- ✅ -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:41, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I have DjVus (and 600 ppi JPEGs as well, if you want them) of the missing pages. Where should I upload them? MarkLSteadman (talk) 20:27, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Upload what you have here on en.WS (not Commons), link to them back here in this section and I'll add fixing the source file to my list. Lot of stuff going on in meatspace so I'll get to it when I can. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:13, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Here they are: [//en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Armistice_Day.djvu/376 pg.354] [//en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Armistice_Day.djvu/377  pg.355] MarkLSteadman (talk) 21:52, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅. Thanks again for your help, Mark. -- George Orwell III (talk) 07:06, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you both, Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Cannot create top category
I am trying to create a top category Category:Historical eras but the process puts me into a loop. Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong?


 * Could you be more specific? What content are you trying to put into the category? --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:28, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Added Category:Works by era and it created just fine. Where you leaving it "empty" thinking your [top] cat was somehow going to usurp the existing core cat structure? -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:37, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think this was intended to be part of "Works by era". All of the included items are periodical articles about particular eras, not works from those eras. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:43, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Fine - that family-tree is now removed. The point really was about adding a parent category or some sort of summary -- anything but leaving the editbox empty/blank -- to overcome the creation "loop" being mentioned. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:47, 11 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks to all. Copied the category hierarchy from Wikipedia and given time, I will have more sub cats to add to this top category.— Ineuw talk 03:01, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

An unpreviewable/savable page?
When attempting to create this page: Australian enquiry book of household and general information/Index, populated with this content:

<pages index="Australian enquiry book of household and general information.djvu" from=7 to=12 /> I run into a situation where I can neither preview the unsaved page (request times out and returns to editor with no apparent error or warning), nor save it (results in WIKIMEDIA FOUNDATION Error page...Error: ERR_READ_TIMEOUT, errno [No Error])

The pages being transcluded are rather large and complicated, so perhaps some server limit is being reached. Any suggestions on how to proceed?

Regards, MODCHK (talk) 11:54, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I've tried transcluding the pages myself. It looks like even though an error message is being displayed, the edit is saved. At least, that's how it has worked so far for me. Strange. Does the page look okay now? —Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 12:57, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Absolutely magic! Did you have to change anything to make it work? I have to ask, because I get an error (504 Gateway Time-out) if I try to view the source; however the page itself displays just fine. MODCHK (talk) 13:06, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * From viewing history I can work out what you did: lesson for today: &lt;pages&gt; is more expensive than direct page transclusion…Hmm…plausible, yet doesn't seem entirely right.
 * Still, thanks again. Many, many marks for perseverance! MODCHK (talk) 13:19, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Doing it one page at a time seemed to help. Some header tweaking as well. The input (you'd have got it by now, but still) was

Regards, —Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 13:54, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

You're hitting template limits due to the density of helper templates you're using. The layout of these pages is not at all complicated, and could certainly be rendered with simple clean wikicode, but instead the page code is completely opaque to those who haven't joined the helper template club. I've been here nearly eight years and I find the code of those pages completely unreadable. You've shut me out of being able to validate or otherwise contribute to those pages, and presumably you've shut out 99.99% of newbies who might be tempted to help out. Clean up the code, make it readable to everyone instead of an elite few, and as an added bonus you'll find that MediaWiki won't choke on it any more. Hesperian 01:01, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Poem and hanging indent not playing nicely together
Dunno if anyone's run into the past, wasn't able to find with search. On Page:Sandburg - Cornhuskers.djvu/17 I've tried using hanging indents in a poem tag and it don't work. Looks like the problem is that that the  selector has a   rule, which overrides hanging indent's. Anyone know enough about CSS to know how to handle this? Prosody (talk) 01:14, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * That's not behind this (at least not locally). I changed the value(s) to  for the text-indent attributes and the results are almost the same as before regardless. --> The poem tag adds line breaks to the "end" of each "line" and forces all lines between the poem tags into a single paragraph tag acting as their container element; the poem tage, however, does not wrap each of these "line" with any useful inline element (such as a span) at the same time where we might have a chance to force such formatting as your hanging indent and still be able to insert double spacing, etc. at the same time. While the auto insertion of the BR tags at the end of each "line" by the poem was once considered very useful around here; its pretty much useless for anything other than the straight poem layouts being added back in those days (i.e. not as many actual scans to compare formatting with in our early days mostly copy & pastes that the poem tag easily handled). -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:52, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

for line endings within a block of text and then outdent, hanging indent &c. work. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:24, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Londonjackbooks has given up on the poem tag because of this sort of problem. Best thing to do is to use

s because  doesn't play nice with them either. And these aren't strictly paragraphs, line breaks and spacing are kind of significant here as in more conventional verse. A 'correct' solution I guess would require some site-wide CSS which I'm kind of loath to ask for, (nevermind, that wouldn't work for the same reason it doesn't work in poem tags 00:52, 20 August 2013 (UTC)) playing around with something very hacky right now.
 * Um... a hanging indent assumes the text will wrap, but a poem tag assumes it won't. Either you want the text to wrap or you don't, so there should never be a time those two formatting items are used together on the same text.  Just start the poem tag near the bottom, with the block where it's appropriate, instead of trying to get the line breaks in specific locations for the first several paragraphs.   There is no need to use the tag with the first several "paragraphs" anyway.  --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:36, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Couldn't do
 * Is that true? I don't really get the impression from mw:Extension:Poem. Prosody (talk) 00:50, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

No 'next' appearing
I'm not seeing the Chapter 8 page point to the 'next' Chapter 9. Something with the TOC (as the chapters are divided between pages)? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:25, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * A NOP at the end of /123 (scan page 115) seems to have done the trick. I'd make adding a NOP at the end of sections, like your chapter end, a habit even if you're not going to be transcluding past that page in a single range of pages in the mainspace. -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:39, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Tricky! And noted.  Dare I ask why it did the trick?  Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:51, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Beats me??? just one of the many differences/nuances between using the straight header template in the mainspace or calling the embedded one??? Think about it this way: if you were transcluding all the chapters to one page, you'd be adding NOP at the end of each chapter to break up one chapter from the next, no?; well the same might be needed even when trancluding chapters to their own mainspace page just to maintain the "flow" when it comes to the embedded header's behavior & output. -- George Orwell III (talk) 05:46, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Tried to see if other works I had transcluded similarly (embedded header template) had the same effect; The Kernel and the Husk transcluded successfully (i.e., no missing 'next') without adding nop's at chapter endings... But there are also differences between the texts, such as there being only one TOC page in the Kernel and multiple pages in Philochristus (noting that it is perhaps only coincidental that the page break was between the affected chapters); plus, TOC formatting was also different. No response needed, just thinking out loud trying to narrow things down in my own naive way.  Thanks again, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:22, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Odd char in Portuguese appendix
For this month's PotM, I'm having trouble determining how to render an odd character here. The character is in the first full line of source document No. II, and looks like a lowercase p with a curly horizontal slash through the descender. The character may not be renderable, since it is part of an attempt to transcribe a handwritten document, but any help would be appreciated.

At the least, I'd like to know whether we have a template for marking such difficult characters. If so, what template is it? If not, what should we call it and where should we categorize it? --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:41, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The closest I can find for it is that it is a p with middle tilde (ᵱ). But I can't find any use of it in Portuguese, and not knowing the context of the work in question, I don't know if that is a correct transliteration or not.—<font style="color: #000000; text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold">Zhaladshar <font style="color: #FF0000; font-size: small; text-decoration: none">(Talk) 18:34, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The document is a late Renaissance handwritten document that is being transcribed. The document makes use of a number of scribal conventions and abbreviations not present in modern Portuguese (or in modern typography). --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:14, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * What character did you end up using? My browser (Chrome) can't render it.  I just get one of those boxes.—<font style="color: #000000; text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold">Zhaladshar <font style="color: #FF0000; font-size: small; text-decoration: none">(Talk) 18:21, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I used a p. If you look at the edit history, an anon has since made a drive-by edit that substituted in lots of unecessary template calls, and in the same edit changed the character to something that does not render in my browser either. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:09, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Problematic PSM volume 81
Trying to make this as concise as possible; here is the situation in a nutshell. Both of the existing Internet Archive versions of Index:Popular Science Monthly Volume 81.djvu turned out to have errors. The lesser error in the first uploaded version by User:Mattwj2002 in 2009 was discovered in April 2013 and was replaced with the current copy. Yesterday I discovered a much greater error by the original publishers, but the text layer remained from the original version and numerous pages were proofread.

My questions are:


 * 1) If I revert to the original upload of 2009, will this replace the current text layer where numerous pages have been proofread?
 * 2) If the text layer does change with the reversion, can it be saved as a text file (before the reversion) so that I can paste the proofread pages back to where they belong? — Ineuw talk 16:06, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

P.S: I am posting the details of the issues on the Index talk page.

✅ Problem solved. — Ineuw talk 09:34, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Need help getting scans
Hi! I am trying to get this magazine, called "The Russian Review" from Hathi Trust, but it only allows me to get it page by page (because my IP address is not in US, I presume). Please, somebody, upload it to the Commons, djvu preferred, I am keen to transcript few very rare works from it. The whole lot is three volumes approx. 300 pages each. The thing is 100% kosher, first published in USA in 1916-1917, copyright not renewed. Thank you a lot!!! Captain Nemo (talk) 02:39, 12 September 2013 (UTC).


 * Well, it is not only a matter of IP, but you need to be affiliated in any partner institution in order to be able to download full books. I asked similar thing before but I wasn't lucky to have anybody do this for me. --DixonD (talk) 11:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Hopefully this works for you. http://books.google.com/books?id=Gb4VAQAAIAAJ&dq=editions%3Ap2D-4EyuqPkC&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false maybe somebody could upload it to the commons.— Rochefoucauld (talk) 23:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Google books also don't allow download by non-US IP's. At least this has been so in my case from Canada. Otherwise I would gladly have uploaded it. Try this link on Internet Archive. Perhaps it's there on one of the 8 pages I found. If you find something there, send me the link and I will gladly upload it to the commons and link it to WS. — Ineuw talk 23:45, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Figured out how to do it. Here you go. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Russian_Review_Vol._1.pdf Enjoy! — Rochefoucauld (talk) 00:17, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks in the name of Captain Nemo. I have to download the book and remove the Google disclaimer before using it on WS. — Ineuw talk 00:22, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * No problem. I would of removed it if I had the know how. — Rochefoucauld (talk) 00:33, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I will eventually get around to post detailed information on how and why to do it from the beginning to the end. This is the 2nd time this topic has come up today. :-). FYI, The first page has been removed and the PDF is uploaded to Internet Archive for processing into various formats. While we can use it as is, the IA process derives among other formats, a DJVU and a JP2 format for high quality images, which this book has. As soon as the processing is done (about 6+ hours on weekdays), I will upload the book to the commons and link it to WS. — Ineuw talk 00:59, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you to everybody and to Rochefoucauld!!! I really appreciate it. Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 11:59, 14 September 2013 (UTC).

First document! Need help
Hello! I uploaded my first document and I think I have it proofread, but I need some help. Would someone experienced validate my work and help me? In exchange, I would validate some stuff as directed so I can learn how this works.
 * Hi. If you think quality is OK (at first glance to me it seem so, only some formatting missing here and there), you can proofread your text. And then we can validate it.--Mpaa (talk) 20:05, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Here is my work Index:PARAMOUNT_Eli_Lilly_Informed_Consent_Document.djvu - it is 14 pages and I hope it sets the precedent for international transparency in health research.

I had a few problems -
 * 1) On all the pages I put text into a footer box, but that seems to be integrated into the main text. Should this not be separated somehow?
 * Not an issue. What is in footer appears in Page ns but will not be transcluded. You need to make sure you are not putting in footer text you want to appear in Main ns.--Mpaa (talk) 20:05, 15 September 2013 (UTC)


 * 1) One of the pages is a contract. Is there a clever way to do formatting for lines for signatures in Wikisource? See page 11.
 * 2) Some pages have a bit of red text. Is this ignored in Wikisource or is there a way for me to note that?
 * See Red--Mpaa (talk) 20:05, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for any help that anyone can give to me.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)   19:07, 15 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Is this document Copyright free?--Mpaa (talk) 20:08, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * No, the creator retained the copyright but as I noted and linked when I uploaded the document to Commons, they did apply a CC-By-3.0 license to it. What should I have done on Wikisource so that you would not have had to ask that question?  Blue Rasberry    (talk)   20:58, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Nothing. I did not notice the copyright status at Commons. I guess that if it is fine for them @Commons, it should be OK here. I leave it to the copyright experts, in case someone has another opinion.--Mpaa (talk) 23:33, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * CC-BY-3.0 is fine on Wikisource. When you transclude it to the main namespace, add CC-BY-3.0 to the bottom (just above the categories). - AdamBMorgan (talk) 23:54, 15 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback. @MPAA, you proofread one of my pages and when you did so you introduced me to the Rh template. Thanks for that - I applied it to every page in the footer. I also used the red text template you recommended, so that's cool. You also found a mistake in my spacing - I fixed that - but I see that you used the  template when I was using the return key. Visually this gets a different outcome - I see it after I click save. What is the best practice for line breaks and spaces in the text? Should one hit return or use the break tag? Thanks.   Blue Rasberry    (talk)   01:47, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Return key -> New paragraph,  is just a new line in the same paragraph.--Mpaa (talk) 11:21, 16 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks to the brilliant IP who did complicated formatting on Page:PARAMOUNT Eli Lilly Informed Consent Document.djvu/11. Now that I see how it works I can do it myself next time.  Blue Rasberry    (talk)   00:04, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Multi-volume format
Should a text containing two separately page numbered volumes (Index:Memoirs James Hardy Vaux.djvu) be put in mainspace at Memoirs of James Hardy Vaux/Volume 1/Chapter 1 & Memoirs of James Hardy Vaux/Volume 2/Chapter 1 with Memoirs of James Hardy Vaux as a dab page? I can't find anything about multi-volume layout in the help pages.Misarxist (talk) 13:54, 18 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Look at the Popular Science Monthly which will give you an idea.— Ineuw talk 19:05, 18 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Also have a look at The Works of the Rev. Jonathan Swift where the main page is the title of the series, then each volume has a sub-page with sub-sub-pages for each chapter/sermon/poem/&c. In other words do what you suggest above with the exception of calling the main page a dab page. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:33, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I tend to do it in subpages as you mention, ie. Memoirs of James Hardy Vaux/Volume 1/Chapter 1, although I would call Memoirs of James Hardy Vaux a Table of Contents more than a disambiguation page. Not that it would change much in functional terms; it's still just a list of bullet-pointed wikilinks. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 20:15, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
 * FYI, I've started a draft guideline to help anyone with a similar query in the future: Multi-volume works. Please amend (and someone may need to clear it up a touch) as necessary. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 21:08, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That's awesome since I intend on doing a multi-volume series. Thanks. — Rochefoucauld (talk) 22:29, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Can't change email address in Preferences
I get as far as waiting for a confirmation code to be sent to my new email address, but no email is received. Checked my spam folder as well. Any recommendations? Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:30, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Do I need to ask about this elsewhere? Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:43, 20 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Do you still have access to the old email? if so did you check both the old and new emails? JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 15:07, 20 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I do still have access to the old email for now. No confirmation notice/message was left there either.  Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:05, 20 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Not sure we are being a lot of help here, it may be that the email servers where down just as you tried the change. A couple of other things to try.
 * Go through email the change process again, see if you get an email this time
 * Special:CentralAuth lists the home of your SUL as Wikipedia, so try changing it there.
 * Open a ticket at Bugzilla
 * Thats all the ideas I have. Jeepday (talk) 11:24, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Accounts are universal, so are changes of address, so see if changing it at one of the other wiki is more successful. — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:33, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess I'll go to Bugzilla. I tried changing it at WP; also tried using IE instead of Chrome... Thanks all, Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:11, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Tried to create a Bugzilla account, but had similar issues (can't receive confirmation email). So I emailed the "maintainer of the Bugzilla installation" for help. We'll see! Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:30, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Syntax changes while editing
I have been adding a text which requires are good degree of template usage, and italicized words. I have been noticing, however, that the editor seemingly changes what I am typing automatically to something I did not intend. Specifically, it has changed "=IV" to "ĪV", etc., and England to 'Éngland'', etc. Does anyone know how to correct this? - Presidentman (talk) 22:15, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It's actually a gadget on your preferences (oldwikisource:MediaWiki:SpecialChars.js) which you might've activated. To deactivate it, go to Special:Preferences and uncheck the "Keyboard shortcuts…" checkbox under Editing tools. — Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 05:33, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Audio in text on Download as EPUB
I down loaded Common Sense as EPUB, and every section has this phrase.

Sorry, your browser either has JavaScript disabled or does not have any supported player. You can download the clip or download a player to play the clip in your browser. Listen to this text (help | file info or download)

Down loading as PDF does not (try or fail to) bring over the "Listen to this text" section, but does add page numbers when converted to MOBI (conversion by Calibre).

Obviously the junk phrase nor page numbers are not desired on download. The "listen to this text" as potential benefit to the person browsing the from the web.

Do we have any kind of a solution that can make everyone happy? Jeepday (talk) 09:16, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


 * There were the templates hide in print and only in print but apparently they have been broken, see: 48052 and 50750. The template noprint might still work.  If not, there is possibly something that can be done in css to solve this. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 19:49, 7 October 2013 (UTC)


 * noprint does not work on the EPUB. Jeepday (talk)


 * "listen to this text" is important for the blind. —Maury (talk) 04:21, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Code error
The code for a category appears in read mode on The Iliad (Murray), and a bracket is displayed in the wrong place. Perhaps there is some error with the associated template code? <font color="#006600;">It Is Me Here  <font color="#CC6600;">t / <font color="#CC6600;">c 16:03, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed with a null edit (I presume it's the header you're talking about). These headers seem to be all over the place nowadays. — Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 16:27, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Edittools special characters accessibility
Is there a way for a user to hide (in CSS) the wiki markups above the MediaWiki:Edittools gadget? This would allow the viewing of the special character selections at the same time as the original scan. The expanded list of wiki markups pushed the special character selection so low that it's no longer possible to see the original scan + text area + the selection of a special character. This in effect limits my ability to proofread. Thanks in advance. — Ineuw talk 14:29, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This seems to work:  Abjiklɐm (tɐlk) 15:16, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * @Abjiklam, many thanks!!!— Ineuw talk 16:02, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin
I want to post The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin (see source.) It’s a four-part work with 14 chapters. How should this be done? Should I use the Page: namespace to break it into 14 pages? Thanks, Leucosticte (talk) 07:18, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I note that the website you link to claims copyright (at the very bottom of the page). As a result I don't think that we can host this particular copy. Additionally, we've already got a copy without pagescans at The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin and it would be better to acquire a copy with scans. There are several copies at the Internet Archive. If there is a particular edition in that list that you would like to work on, then let me know and I'll upload it for you. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:50, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Ouch, I don’t know how I missed that page when I was searching. Thanks. Leucosticte (talk) 16:47, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The copyright claim is (at least mostly) mere copyfraud. However, the work is duplicative so bringing it here is pointless (unless you can find scans that match it and cannot find scans to support the version we have).  If you could match up the version we have to a set of scans that would be ideal as it would allow us to source our text.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 18:01, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Page formatting request
Could I bug someone to correctly format this page for me? Appreciated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:18, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

AND if one could validate this page as well. Then the book will be complete. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:31, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Validation done 04:14, 15 October 2013‎ Clockery (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (807 bytes) (-7)‎ . . (→‎Validated) (undo)


 * Thanks all! Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:47, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Main namespace issue due to followed reference and hws/hwe
Because THIS PAGE has both a reference "followed" from the previous page, and also ends with a hyphenated word, the main namespace article, between this and the following page is broken into two paragraphs. Is there a way to fix this? — Ineuw talk 22:30, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Re-jigged both that page and its predecessor. Please check result is as desired (Obviously looks O.K. to me, but your expectations are the acid test!) 58.165.137.167 23:04, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much "58". It's perfect and I learned something new (again). — Ineuw talk 01:23, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Using Lua for random selection
One thing I was wondering, now that we've got Lua going on our wikis: can we use Lua to automatically create a list of items that were randomly chosen from a larger list? For example, I want to do a folk lore/fairy tale portal, and one of the things I want is to have a section that has a random assortment of fairy tales (from all the different countries/languages) listed on it. Ideally, this assortment would be different every time the page was loaded.

We've got so many collections and so many tales, that it would be impractical to list every single fairy tale on the main page, but it would be nice to list a good 10 or 15 and have that change every time someone refreshed the page. The randomness would then give a sort of "dynamism" to an otherwise already static page. I don't know how to code in Lua so I don't know the feasability of doing such a thing.—<font style="color: #000000; text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold">Zhaladshar <font style="color: #FF0000; font-size: small; text-decoration: none">(Talk) 22:45, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think Lua can be used for this. Maybe a link to Special:RandomInCategory would be good. If not, try something like this.

[ Refresh.]

Note: will not work with subcategories IIRC :-(, and will probably be biased toward certain results. PiRSquared17 (talk) 23:17, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Tried to make this work with Lua at RandomList. Sadly, it seems Lua does not run on every page load, but once on page save. It's easy to refresh, but you have to know how & it's not automatic. --Eliyak T · C 08:36, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The situation is slightly better than I thought. It appears a null edit to any page transcluded on the same page as RandomList will trigger the update. For the main page, this should be at least daily. Maybe there is a setting somewhere that would trigger it on the main page on every hard refresh. However, since Lua is running on the server, that seems inadvisable in any case. --Eliyak T · C 08:43, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


 * So, I'm done working on this for now, but it occurs to me that there may be a way to do what we want with JavaScript (ie common.js, which runs client-side). We could pre-load a large enough amount of entries (say 1000-2000), and have Javascript do what I was doing with Lua. (the code is at Module:Sequence and Module:Math if anyone is interested.) It probably won't bother the user, but at about 20,000 views/hr, on-the fly page updates just might bother the little people who live in the Wikimedia servers and make them go. --Eliyak T · C 08:59, 20 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and implemented it in javascript. produces:


 * You should see a bulleted list. By default (Javascript disabled or before you have copied this code to your own common.js), it has 3 items, which are the first 3 of the provided base list. When Javascript is running, it shows 4 random items from that same list. The items are shown in the original order, but are a random selection. They update on every page refresh, and are different for every user. --Eliyak T · C 21:22, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, forgot about the common.css component. Without that you will see the whole list, since the css is what hides all elements but the first 3. --Eliyak T · C 21:36, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Fixing Scans
Page:Book Of Halloween(1919).djvu/189

This is a plate that should appear as a Frontspeice. Is it possible to patch this? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Fine block/s & /e trouble
I've been having some trouble with Template:Fine block/s and Template:Fine block/e. They intermittently fail to preserve paragraph breaks, (e.g. here, here, and in a footnote), don't seem to add a proper paragraph break between the last fine paragraph and the next normal one in the page namespace (e.g. here, but again not always, and when a footnote is placed after the closing template, the footnote number is pushed onto a new line when it should follow it on the same line as normal), and when added to the header (as recommended) mysteriously doesn't always apply the style to the first (or first few) paragraphs (e.g. here where only the third paragraph is made smaller, but not in other cases). This sometime applies when transcluded, but again not always (e.g. the first example given above, but not the second). Maybe I'm somehow using it wrongly, but I can't see how.

In all cases, Template:Smaller block/s and Template:Smaller block/e don't have the same problems, but make the text far less legible (especially when combined with Hebrew/Greek script in this book) and much smaller than the original text. Technically, the code is similar but not identical; Fine block/s adds "line-height:1.2em" to the div style, while Smaller block/s has a line break after the div tag, and while Fine block/e just closes the div tag, Smaller block/e redirects to Template:Div end, which has a line break before closing the tag. I can't see why these things should cause these problems (especially only in some cases), and I don't want to jump in and start testing when they're used across Wikisource, but would it perhaps be better to make them (in fact, all font size templates) wrappers for one inline, one block and one start/end font size template? -- xensyria T 14:56, 21 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Check those instances again after a good purging of your cache and see if the trouble still exists... report back.


 * Template:Smaller block/s and Template:Smaller block/e don't have the same problem because that Smaller block only changes the font size while fine changes the font-size as well the line-height settings. This means if your "block" has multiple paragraphs, typically only the first and/or last paragraphs in the block will "properly" inherit the altered line-height settings - the ones in between will seem to have a third "size" or no "change" at all. This indicates the setting(s) aren't being handed-down/inherited-throughout properly. And a DIV is always a block-level element and will always start on its own line in the HTML rendering - what follows depends on placement. If you put the content that follows right up against that template, you are actually turning what should be a paragraph (and paragraphs, also being a block-level element, should start on a new line by default in typical rendering) into just a SPAN (which is an inline element); and that's fine if there are no additional paragraphs, etc. to follow which would make up a true & complete content block . If you do have more than one block of content (i.e. multiple paragraphs) that follows, then, in more cases than not that first faux SPAN acting in place of true paragraph will not <completely?> "transfer" all the attributes & their vaules set by that Fine opening template from one element to the next. You'd need to place the opening and closing templates on their own lines for any chance of the wiki mark-up NOT to create that first &/or last faux SPANS (remember - wiki markup automatically appends/merges any text found mutually "adjacent" lines upon final rendering) to what should have been proper paragraphs. In light of this placement thing - I've edited the Fine starting & ending templates to better force what amounts to simple opening and closing DIV tags to always wind up on their own lines regardles of placement of content; be that placement be right up against the template on the same line or under it on it own line (folks shouldn't be using a content-block to format things a short as one line or one faux-paragraph anyway the way I see it). -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * As for the additional instances of where "lost size" was an issue in addition to lost paragraph breaks (the best that I can tell - mostly multiple paragraphs in footnotes spanning more pages than just the initial), this is an unfortunate issue that will only get worse as more and more compliance to HTML5 specs become farther and farther away from the wiki-markup in place. You see, a Ref tag (really just a list item < LI > tag) isn't really going to behave in the strict block-type sense like it has around here but something more in between the typical block and  inline element behaviors... and that means all sorts of quirks for us are to come especially in the Page: namespace like the lost Para. break thing you mention here.  While you had some rare examples that are more exceptional than typical (where the paragraph ran right up against being the top-most content of the Page: and had a footnote at the very end of it -- in addition to being the closing point for the Fine block!), the best thing to do in those spanning-footnote cases is to add opening and closing < P > paragraph tags to the paragraphs within the footnote to make sure breaks are not lost in either in viewing or after transclusion.  Please note! just like as you saw the behavior of the first and last paragraphs "act" differently than ones in between before any "fixing" done by me - the opposite may hold true in these cases. This means you only add the straight paragraph tags to the paragraphs between the first & last in more cases than not & it gets worse when a paragraph is broken across 2 pages; sometimes you'll need to add the opening < P > tag on the Page: it starts on, put a common-sense closing tag in the bottom noinclude footer to match the opening to complete the "pair", and then only add the another closing < /P > tag at the "real end" of that paragraph on the Page: that follows --> No opening tag in the noinclude header needed on that Page: since one is automatically generated thanks to all the redundant line returns generated in it by the ProofReading code upon the first save/Page: creation .  All that being said, I also tweaked the Fine templates beyond just the "forced placement" thing and added a class setting to them that "should" hand down the attribute settings set in the starting DIV to each & every paragraph within the "block" rather than hopping under the wiki-markup one paragraph will hand them down to the next paragraph and then to the one that follows & so on -- supposedly inheriting these values from its immediate predecessor in each instance -- until the end of that content block is reached.  Hope that helped. -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:37, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for the very helpful explanation and fixes! Looking at all of the examples I flagged up (and now actually every fine block in the book), they're all working perfectly both on Page: and transcluded into Main. I hadn't realised how much HTML 5 would affect Wikisource (and a real shame that we have to use workarounds... I should have mentioned this in that questionnaire they're advertising!) nor the details of how the code works. Just to make sure I know what you're recommending for the future (especially when you say "folks shouldn't be using a content-block to format things a short as one line or one faux-paragraph anyway the way I see it") would you suggest to use fine block for a single paragraph, and fine block/s and fine block/e only if it's more than one paragraph, or a paragraph that's split between pages, and then use the   tags (and new lines when needed etc.) if and when I find it broken (apart from footnotes, which should always be paragraph tagged if there's more than one to a note)? -- xensyria T 15:54, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I only said that thing about "folks shouldn't be..." to dismiss any previous application of the Fine Block template (approx 300 uses which I just spot checked and the changes do not seem to affect its previous application so nothing to worry about there. You can use the templates as you like though for a single block of content to be wrapped in a template that handles content blocks doesn't make sense to me is all. < p style="line-height:1.2em; font-size:92%;" < /p> is how I'd handle a single paragraph (or a single block of content to use the general term instead) for example. I had started to design a template to handle the paragraph tag like the table style parsing ts template does; it can be called via P and it's options similarly listed under Template:Paragraph_tag/parse if you're interested. Your single block of content acting in Fine rendering with a width of 25% to help show the nuances just for this discussion, would be  like


 * Mesopotamia at any period of history. The whole movement is chiefly interesting as a reductio ad absurdum of too literal an interpretation (or misapplication) of the prophecies.


 * In the end, it seemed too much of an uphill climb to get folks weened off of their favorite all-div, all-the-time template habits for P usage, again only in these single block of content situations as we've discussed, to ever follow through with finishing it up & giving it proper roll-out. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:18, 23 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I've got to admit I'm pretty used to the current templates though I hadn't realised they abused the div code, but if the P paradigm solves that, and future html migration problems I'd be all for it! -- xensyria T 20:37, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Few, yet enough (Dickinson)
The Few, yet enough, verse of Dickinson is in some sources (Google Books) quoted with the word "get" instead of "yet": "Few get enough". I'm unsure which version is more authentic. --CopperKettle (talk) 06:51, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The authentic version is the version supported by the scans you happen to have. Short of finding scans of a manuscript, an early edition with errata, or specific commentary by or quoting the author, there isn't really any way to determine which scans are more authentic than others.  That's why we don't generally 'correct' the text in the scans, though you could use a tooltip or other annotation to show the different versions.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 18:06, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Finishing A Father's Memoirs of his Child
Hello all, I am currently doing a cooperation with the William Blake Archive to improve content related to William Blake on Wikimedia projects (for more information see w:WP:Blake). I am not sure how the community operates here on Wikisource, but I was wondering if we could encourage collaboration on A Father's Memoirs of his Child, to finish the book. The work is most notable for the introduction because it includes material on William Blake. And that part has already been completed; however, there is a significant number of subsequent pages that could use work (we made some progress during WikiProject Poetry/William Blake/KSU Editathon, but with mostly new editors, it was not much). Is this the right place for me to be encouraging collaboration? Would anyone be interested in helping me clear out some more of the pages? As far as I can tell, it would be the only fully digitized version of the entire book available on the internet, Sadads (talk) 04:18, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Sadads, yes, this is the right place, though it might be more effective to ask people in person whom you think might be interested, people who worked on it before, editors who have worked on other works listed at Author:William Blake, etc. as apparently this comment hasn't gotten much attention--Doug.(talk • contribs) 18:10, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I am currently planning on enlisting the help of a bunch of students in a course in February and may make another push for community support later, Sadads (talk) 17:04, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Requesting Help, *Please*.
Index:Matthew Fontaine Maury 1806-1873.pdf

Error generating thumbnail

Error creating thumbnail: convert: no decode delegate for this image format `/tmp/magick-tuuwWAeF' @ error/constitute.c/ReadImage/532. convert: missing an image filename `/tmp/transform_f5d9b4db7dfd-1.jpg' @ error/convert.c/ConvertImageCommand/3011.

Help please, Text loaded in but not images. Created this a few minutes ago. Do I need to wait for the images to load in? —Maury (talk) 04:26, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I see that GO3 is assisting. It seems to be an issue with the file itself, not a problem with the pull. — billinghurst  sDrewth  09:46, 26 October 2013 (UTC)


 * All is well now, either somebody fixed something or it just needed a longer time to "cook".

Thank you both for looking and caring to look. It's part of what makes en.wikisource do-able, and a pleasurable place, including to work on books and images. If one cannot get the Index images in at the very beginning then all here has to be just text. Sincerely, —Maury (talk) 12:09, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Index page not displaying page status
Hi,

Can anyone explain why the page status colouring has disappeared completely from Index:History of the Spanish Conquest of Yucatan and of the Itzas.pdf? Any help appreciated. Many thanks, Simon Burchell (talk) 19:50, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * There's been a problem with some site-based caching. Just purge the page or make a null edit and the colours will return. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:12, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks - I'll try that. Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 10:32, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I've also discovered that, if you alter the proofreading status of any of the indexed pages, the work's Index page will be corrected along with the edit. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:40, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Complicated nested ref thingy
So I have this ref nested in a multipage ref on Page:Geology and Mineralogy considered with reference to Natural Theology, 1837, volume 1.djvu/257. For some reason this breaks formatting with the references following it, see on the page itself and Geology and Mineralogy considered with reference to Natural Theology/Chapter 15 where it's transcluded. Anyone who knows more about cite.php have ideas? Prosody (talk) 02:30, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, nevermind, there was a stray  throwing a wrench in the work. Typical problem that you only solve when you go to ask someone else. Prosody (talk) 02:33, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Page template not producing page link
I'm not getting a page link on the left margin of a page I'm using the page template on, American Embassy’s Note Verbale No.187. Purging and adding a num= parameter don't seem to have helped. Prosody (talk) 00:03, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Creating an index made [undefined] links appear. Prosody (talk) 01:12, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Table is forced int the footer as a reference are no reference tags
On this page Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 83.djvu/555, there was a correctly defined reference attached to the "Boiling point" table header which forced the whole table into the footer as a reference. After eliminating all reference related tags, it still ends up in the footer as a reference. I did a null save and purged the page & browser but try as I might, I can't correct it. Can someone please look at it at their convenience/ Thanks in advance.— Ineuw talk 09:02, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * You haven't closed the table with |}, so wikiware shoves it to the bottom after the text. It's not actually a reference. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:09, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. What can I say - should have quit earlier when the going was better.— Ineuw talk 16:16, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

"en français dans le texte"
&hellip;is a common footnote in translations into French, where the translator indicates that the foreign author originally wrote a given phrase in French. Here are some samples of endnotes in the French translation of Nietzsche's Twilight of the Idols.

I am wondering what the equivalent English phrase usually is. "in English in the source/original" ?<br />Thanks, --Jerome Charles Potts (talk) 12:15, 6 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello. I am not entirely sure this is the answer for which you seek; but until such time as somebody suggests something better, I think the general Latin annotation sic may be one answer. (This is really a bit more general than the precise situation you describe.) Regards, Viewer2 (talk) 09:10, 8 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you, i hadn't hought of that. I have the notion that [sic] is used mainly to point out a language mistake or other weakness in the quoted original. Indeed, i am looking for something a bit more specific, but this is better than nothing. --Jerome Charles Potts (talk) 03:29, 9 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I can't think of a standard equivalent phrase. It's certainly not something I've come across in my wide-ranging reading. The main way of indicating this sort of thing would be a change in type-face with a translator's note for the whole work to indicate that words in the alternate type-face were originally in English. It could be serif in a san-serif text, or italic/bold. The choice is an editorial one and depends on what type-faces the text already requires. The important thing is consistency. I would be reluctant to use sic myself as indeed it does point out errors of language use in quoted text. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:48, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't use [sic] either and I wouldn't change the typeface. I'd write a footnote saying something like "Source text already in English". Angr 14:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you both for your answers. --Jerome Charles Potts (talk) 11:21, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Illustrations which occurs as separate pages interrupting text
What's the best way to handle this situation? Page:Breaking the Hindenburg Line.djvu/21 contains an illustration. The illustration page (and a blank page) interrupts between pages of text, and indeed a sentence is split over the prior and following page. If I mark the illustration page as "without text", then I can transclude the whole chapter (here) like this: <pages index="Breaking the Hindenburg Line.djvu" from=19 to=25 /> But if I don't mark the illustration page as "without text", then I would have to do something like this: <pages index="Breaking the Hindenburg Line.djvu" from=19 to=20 /><pages index="Breaking the Hindenburg Line.djvu" from=23 to=25 /> and if I do that a paragraph break is automatically inserted between the two chunks of text, which breaks up a sentence. What's the appropriate action? - Htonl (talk) 13:29, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It should not be marked as "without text", they are proofread as normal. Where image positioning is problematic, especially due to publisher siting the image for convenience of publication, rather than flow of the work and as the author presumably envisaged, I would wrap the image on the image page with &lt;noinclude>, then &lt;includeonly> at an appropriate place within the text. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:46, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * On the technical side, I think you could also do this:

<pages index="Breaking the Hindenburg Line.djvu" from=19 to=25 exclude=21 />
 * There are several illustrations on Wikisource that break sentences, due to the position of the illustration in the original. I try to move them slightly when I can but that doesn't always seem possible.  Billinghurst's approach seems best.  If not, an alternative would be transcluding the pages out of order, to put the illustration on page 21 in a more convenient place (even if at the end of the chapter/base of the page). - AdamBMorgan (talk) 14:25, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, guys! I had completely forgotten about noinclude/includeonly, which is silly, since I've used it a hell of a lot in other works! - Htonl (talk) 16:03, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Addendum: I've discovered that also takes an "exclude" parameter which allows you to exclude specific pages from transclusion. - Htonl (talk) 16:44, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

MY ACCOUNT IS MESSED UP BAD, VERY DIFFICULT, SCRAMBLED TEXT, PROBABLY THE BETA, PLEASE FIX
MY ACCOUNT IS MESSED UP BAD, VERY DIFFICULT, PROBABLY THE BETA, PLEASE FIX, —Maury (talk) 20:06, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Nevermind, it seems to be working now. I could not log in to wikisource so I logged in through wiki commons but that too was messed up, just not as bad. When online here at wikisource the system corrected itself. I logged out and then back in and all seems okay now. —Maury (talk) 20:17, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Next Chapter Start middle of the page
I am from Bengali WS. Our total novel or fiction, manage chapter, here each chapter in one subpage. But when Next Chapter Start middle of the page, How can we divided them in text subpage. Example- https://bn.wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A6%AA%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%A4%E0%A6%BE:%E0%A6%9A%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%81%E0%A6%A6%E0%A7%87%E0%A6%B0_%E0%A6%AA%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%B9%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%A1%E0%A6%BC.pdf/%E0%A7%A7%E0%A7%AE Jayantanth (talk) 12:01, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * We can use the  tags to do this. For example, on the page you linked:
 * During transclusion, this can be given as:
 * and
 * Hope that helped. —Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 12:30, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * and
 * Hope that helped. —Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 12:30, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hope that helped. —Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 12:30, 20 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Apologize for the intrusion but I am sure that section labels must begin with a letter (nonnumeric character). as in:
 * দুই
 * During transclusion, this is given as:
 * Enclosing in quotes is only mandatory when there is a space in the section code as in: "section 1" but not in section1.
 * Section codes are case sensitive. — Ineuw talk 15:56, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Enclosing in quotes is only mandatory when there is a space in the section code as in: "section 1" but not in section1.
 * Section codes are case sensitive. — Ineuw talk 15:56, 20 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh! Thank you to both of you, I understand the method. And area any kind of help page of or ?Jayantanth (talk) 06:26, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

An Essay on the Age and Antiquity of the Book of Nabathæan Agriculture
I finished validating the pages of Index:An Essay on the Age and Antiquity of the Book of Nabathaean Agriculture.djvu except one. Could someone validate this page so that the book may be complete? Thanks in advance! Abjiklɐm (tɐlk) 08:28, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The Syriac in the footnote is challenging for me. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:46, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ by User:Ineuw. Thanks! Abjiklɐm (tɐlk) 20:20, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Lost the custom edit toolbar . . . . help please
Earlier today, I added two new buttons to my custom edit toolbar and the toolbar disappeared. Interestingly, the functioning toolbar had the insecure "http:" links to the images, but the two new buttons were "https:". Thus, I tried to recover the custom toolbar using both secure and insecure hyperlinks (while checking on the commons that the links were correct), and then, also tried by removing the image links altogether - hoping that the text alternative would work, but it didn't. Currently, the button image links are insecure hyperlinks but the toolbar still doesn't work. Can anyone please help? I am using Windows XP, SP3 with Firefox 25.0.1. I have no other (functioning) browsers installed at the moment, (IE6 is disabled), so I can't test it elsewhere. — Ineuw talk 09:36, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The custom edit toolbar without button images has re-appeared. Please ignore this post.— Ineuw talk 21:27, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


 * What about now? You had a closing hash-mark missing for the  entry. Anything added after that would cause the entire thing to fail for improper JSON syntax/format. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:37, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


 * GO3, my gratitude. It works fine, with the exception of the two new additions: "î" Ansi_238.svg and "û" Ansi_251.svg which still display the text alternate, which might be a cache issue? Also, I am confused about the secure "https" & insecure "http" rules for such links.— Ineuw talk 22:48, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


 * P.S: The two image links were incorrect so I updated the links using the "http:" prefix as it is with all the other working links on the toolbar and now everything is fine. Thanks again GO3. — Ineuw talk 22:57, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah, I should have dbl checked the links - glad you figured it out. In addition, I'd go with https when in doubt since that has become the standard for just about everywhere wiki-wise moving forward (when logged in, of course - that .js wouldn't be 'called' if you weren't logged in anyway). -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)


 * WMF local links should always be written without the protocol specified. So write a link as ...  rather than  .  That aside, I believe that your issue is due to the loading with ResourceLoader

Custom scripts missing but come back after page purge
Purging with Ctrl-F5. Two different PCs, both running FF. For last several days. Happens about 50% of the time. Is anyone else seeing this? Moondyne (talk) 05:45, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yep, just happened when went to edit this. Probably ca. 70% of the time for me. Been happening for a couple of weeks to me. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:03, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It is likely to be an issue with when the scripts load to the page due to ResourceLoader issues, and some changes made numbers of weeks back. In short the page loads before the rewrite of the page with the scripts shown on the page. Presumably the gadget could be updated to resolve the issue, and we would need to get Pathoschild's attention. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:26, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Uploading history books
Would (public domain) local history books (like this, this, this, and this) be acceptable content here? If so, is there any simpler way of uploading them than to manually copy the content of each page over to Wikisource? Thanks, --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 18:06, 29 November 2013 (UTC)


 * All of those are acceptable, Jakob. —Maury (talk) 20:19, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * —Maury But how do I upload them? --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 20:36, 29 November 2013 (UTC)


 * See your "welcome" on your home page or just type in WS:HELP —Maury (talk) 00:59, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I'm finally beginning to understand how this works. Thanks to you and Beeswaxcandle. --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 01:03, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * To note that if the files are available at archive.org, then there is a tool that can enable an upload from one site to Commons. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:21, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Volumes 1 & 2 are on archive.org —Maury (talk) 01:21, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Standard Practice about WS:Style
I am from BN.WS. In our WS one poem one page(ns0). Is it as WS:Style?? But in physically the a single book of poem ( As Gitanjali), there are many poems. So waht should I do?? Move the Poem1, Poem2 in page(ns0) to Poem Book/Poem1,Poem Book/Poem2?Jayantanth (talk) 13:40, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Our current practice is that we will typeset works as they were published. So if a poem is published on its own, it will be reproduced that way; if a poem is in a collection, then it will be reproduced as a subpage of the collection. Note, that we will do a redirect from the base of ns0 to the subpage, if we have multiple versions of the same work, then we will have a versions page at the base of ns0 with links to each version of the poem. All this is trying to retain the purity of the published work, though allow access to all components of works. — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:06, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: that this has not always been the way things were done, especially before the Proofread Page extension, so you will also see the deprecated appearance of those works at the base level. They will be shifted at some point when we know the works from which they originated. They are usually unsupported source. — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:09, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you Billighghurst. It really helped understand your detailed clarification.Jayantanth (talk) 04:09, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Page namespace
I recently created Index:Historical and Biographical Annals of Columbia and Montour Counties, Pennsylvania, Containing a Concise History of the Two Counties and a Genealogical and Biographical Record of Representative Families.pdf, and manually created several pages (in the Page: namespace) before hearing that pages in the Page namespace got filled in automatically. How long is this supposed to take? --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 21:30, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It will be immediate where the text layer is available. I don't see that there is a text layer available for the file, was there one? Ages ago I did see issues where all the text as assigned to the first page but there was no text there either. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:59, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * By the way you should be using template rather than  . Also note that there is a gadget that allows the import of book data from the template to the Index page. — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:01, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * So I do have to type the contents of every page manually? --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 22:37, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no text layer in this file. I will add one. Since it is a big book, it will take some time. Yann (talk) 06:58, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yann, how is a text layer added? —Maury (talk) 07:05, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * With an OCR software. I use Abby FineReader, which does a pretty good job, unless the scan is really bad. Yann (talk) 07:10, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Years ago I used a pro OCR software but since I now use .PDF files it has a built in OCR software. Thank you for answering and thank you for telling me (all of us here) what program you use. But at what point do you add the text, before uploading a file, or after a file is uploaded? How is the text actually added? Is it added page by page manually or is it somehow placed into a file? BTW, your advice on djvu files works!!! I have often wondered for about 2 out of my several years here and only now I learned (from you). Thank you. —Maury (talk) 07:49, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * This is why I usually upload to archive.org. 1) it puts the file there for others, 2) it converts to a djvu which will have a text layer. — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:58, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Uploading to archive.org is what I have done to get a good .PDF file after I edit "Google" out of it (if it is there). I have scanned a book and did the same except I used a .PDF file I assembled. Now I am interested in the .djvu format. So, Billinghurst, I suppose you edit out "Google" for a DJVU file or exactly how do you edit out unwanted materials such as "Google" on every page of a djvu file? —Maury (talk) 19:39, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I added the text layer. I also uploaded a DJVU file for the same work, just in case. Regards, Yann (talk) 20:54, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm working with the djvu file right now? Am I right that I just create each of the Page: namespace pages? --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 22:34, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Can an admin delete the index and pages for the pdf file (I assume they're no longer needed). Thanks, --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 22:36, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. Please avoid creating blank pages in the future, it is boring to delete. ;o) Yann (talk) 23:48, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was kind of a noobish mistake. Anyway, would someone mind pitching in - it'll take weeks to do this at the rate I'm going :-(. --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 00:13, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, finishing a book takes time if it is a big book. I started many books, but I did finish only a few. Some books won't be finished for years. Regards, Yann (talk) 05:45, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Overly complicated HTML formatting
I'm trying to get User:Prosody/jacobsaesoptitle to look like Page:The Fables of Æsop (Jacobs).djvu/9. I've got it mostly successful on Chrome and Firefox, but IE does strange things. Could someone who knows their way around this stuff take a look at it? Prosody (talk) 19:48, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Omg.... why? just manipulate the existing .png using FreedImg FI. -- George Orwell III (talk) 05:39, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
 * For IE9, at least, it's the  that's causing the formatting to be wonky. Of course, fixing it in IE (by flipping it to  ) completely breaks it for Chrome. Also older versions of IE don't support inline-block; your best bet is either to used a table or to just stick with the image. Mukkakukaku (talk) 06:05, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Editing Titles
I have created a number of author pages and works that I need to edit. For example, I created an author page for E. Hamilton because that was all the information I could find at the time. I've since learned that her name was Elizabeth Gerard Hamilton. I've changed her author page as much as possible, but is there a way to change the title of the author page?

Similarly, I have decided to change the titles of various works, mainly letters which didn't have titles already. I've done this by simply creating a new title, and change all links to the new title. But that leaves the old one out there with no links. Is there another way to fix this?

Thank you for your help. Susan Susanarb (talk) 01:24, 2 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Go to the page whose title you wish to rename, and look up the top where the "Read", "Edit", "View history" etc, tabs are. There is also a drop-down menu with further options. One of them is "Move". What you want to do is to move the page to the desired new title.
 * Moving is the preferred way to change titles, because the entire history of the page gets moved across. We discourage copying the page content to a brand new title and then deleting the original content, because the history is lost that way.
 * In cases where you have changed a title because the previous title had no merit as a title — e.g. it had a spelling error in it — just tag the page with sdelete and an administrator will eventually come along and delete the page for you. If the title does have merit as a title, as in your "E. Hamilton" case, you would replace the page text with " #REDIRECT Author:Elizabeth Gerard Hamilton ". This will convert the page into a redirect to the new title. (When you move titles, the redirect gets created automatically).
 * Hope this helps; happy to clarify further if needed. Hesperian 01:59, 2 December 2013 (UTC)


 * This helps a great deal -- I wondered what "Move" does. I'm wondering, though, why "E. Hamilton has merit on its own -- or were you just using that as an example? Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:21, 2 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I expressed myself poorly. It is plausible that a reader would search for this author by typing "E. Hamilton" into the search box. In such as situation we would want to take them straight to the page they are looking for; hence the redirect. Of course if there are multiple E. Hamiltons then it should be a disambiguation page rather than a redirect. Hesperian 04:46, 2 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I've got it now -- thanks! Susan Susanarb (talk) 05:20, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Little problem in Audubon and His Journals
Dear Friends,

I have a little problem on a certain page of Audubon and His Journals, chapter Audubon, which I am validating. When you scroll down to page 26 you'll see what I mean.

This has to do with page Page:Audubon_and_His_Journals.djvu/54 (or the previous one?) In the content modus this page (or the previous one?) gives a strange mistake (it's the same as when in Wikipedia a blank space is put as the first character of a line). Could anyone please solve this? Thanx, Dick Bos (talk) 19:40, 5 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Removed a line space from page 25. Should have gotten rid of the dashed box in the Main. Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:43, 5 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanx, Dick Bos (talk) 13:40, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

"Sidenotes" or not? aka The complexities and consistency of wife and life - or China & the Yann Dynasty
In a very nice book I recently started, Mexico of the Mexicans, there are side notes (or whatcamacallits) that I have seen when validating one or more of Beeswaxcandle's books. I looked at help for sidenotes and am not sure what I have are called "sidenotes" because they are not outside of the text. I have done some of the pages but differently by placing [The words in brackets] at the beginning of the text instead of dropping down a line or two. I think that either way they can be transcluded. Would someone take a look so I can complete the book? Please let me know what to do with the situation. I like the book a lot but these "sidenotes"(?) are very annoying as I don't know what to do with them which is why I am doing different. —Maury (talk) 14:33, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello. I am not sure whether the correct term is "sidenotes", but please have a look at Page:Mexico of the Mexicans.djvu/30 and let me know if this is the effect you wish to achieve. If so, it would be fairly easy to incorporate in a template (if it doesn't already exist.) I would consider this a form of paragraph heading, perhaps? Viewer2 (talk) 22:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Viewer 2, you are exactly right, it couldn't be termed as sidenotes. I couldn't think of what it would be called. And yes, the example you present is exactly what should be used. So, the question now is how to make a template for this book. Thank you for your help. This is a book that has no template for the solution. —Maury (talk) 13:42, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


 * O.K. I have created a new template (inset heading) with some (rough) documentation, and modified Page:Mexico of the Mexicans.djvu/30 to use the new template. To nobody's surprise the result looks exactly the same. (Well unless I've made a mistak! Yes: joke. No extra specie demanded.)


 * The new template should be O.K. for use in this book in this fashion ({{inset heading|Heading}}), but just in case you need a bit of variation I've added two parameters, width= (default is "|width=10em") and side= (default is "|side=left"). Please let me know if this is not clear enough.


 * Regards, Viewer2 (talk) 15:06, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Viewer2, were you born a genius, did your parents lead or force you into it, or was it something that just grew? You have saved an entire book of good worth that was once old but now reborn. Too, other books may arrive with this same problem that you have solved. Thank you ever so much for your help and your work. Blessings upon you and your loved ones. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 15:50, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Mainspace
When proofreading a book, should I transclude it into the mainspace as I proofread the pages, or wait until it's all done? Thanks, --Jakob (Scream about the things I've broken) 13:13, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Completing the proofreading before transcribing is the preferred and recommended method.— Ineuw talk 13:36, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Image is ten times larger than the specified size
Could someone please look at this page Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 82.djvu/288 to see what went wrong - or is it just me who sees the image on the page way oversized? — Ineuw talk 21:50, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Ineuw, I looked for you and it is HUGE!(adding my signature —Maury (talk) 08:29, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I began to be concerned about my sanity and the unending spate of problems emanating from the mediawiki developers kindergarten. — Ineuw talk 07:27, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


 * You are very welcome Ineuw. Your work is the Pride of this ship even though it is presently sinking like the Titanic against that Blue Iceberg Viewer2 points to. I too have encountered problems as well and have seen other's problems. I wish whomever would stop experimenting on us here on en.wikisource. It almost makes me want to leave en.wikisource. I am not sure what keeps me coming back every day and many nights since 2006. It certainly is not the free beer because I dislike beer. It must be the feeling of friendship of you and Viewer2. —Maury (talk) 08:29, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


 * What, and endless transcription, proofreading and validation—or indeed considering the affirmation of your sanity by a whole community of such persons is the action of a sane individual? I wouldn't worry about it, unduly! We are surely all similarly afflicted?
 * I expect this is a universal issue (maybe a CSS class has changed?), because the sample use examples inside the template are affected as well: see Template:FreedImg/doc. That ice-block is meant to be quite a lot more petite than that. Viewer2 (talk) 07:57, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Viewer2, that image you point to gives me a whole new meaning for "Bluetooth" technology. —Maury (talk) 08:29, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Folks, I have taken the liberty of sending George Orwell III this note. I can confirm the problem is most certainly the CSS for FI is not being processed. However my available time has run out and I have not isolated why this is so. As I noted to GOIII I have found a personal "cheat-one-off-solution", but this doesn't really help anybody else at this stage. If the problem is ongoing tomorrow (late!) and I can still do anything useful I'll restart chipping away at it then. Viewer2 (talk) 09:29, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


 * It looks like it is a CSS-related issue, which has affected not only images (see my userpage and usertalkback) :-/. That is, unless I’ve got hold of the wrong end of the stick (not for the first time, anyway!). Regards,—Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 11:48, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Magic. I am so glad Clockery pointed out the userpage issue, as that proves MediaWiki:Common.css/Tweaks.css is not being loaded (I can restore the page operation by using the local-load-CSS trick.) This happens to be the first inclusion line in MediaWiki:Common.css (viz. ) and suggests that the problem lies even earlier in the loading chain (perhaps Common.css is not being loaded at all?) I am unfamiliar with usertalkback and its normal operation so could not investigate this part. Once more I have run out of time. Will check in again (say) 12 hours time? Viewer2 (talk) 19:11, 11 December 2013 (UTC)


 * O.K. who fixed that? 'cause I didn't and couldn't even if I'd managed to figure out what went wrong—which I hadn't! Clockery's page, FI's iceberg and Ineuw's icy mine all look O.K. to me now (still not sure about usertalkback, but that is just me. Somebody please check!) Confused—Viewer2 (talk) 02:30, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Usertalkback confirmed fixed. Thanks, all (especially to unknown anonymous fixer of bugs). :) —Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 12:58, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

A transclusion begs to corrected
Can someone please advise how to make the pages appear seamless in the main namespace? Main namespace article: Popular Science Monthly/Volume 3/September 1873/The Late Professor John Torrey, M.D. LL.D. the problem is with these two pages: Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 3.djvu/648 and Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 3.djvu/651

An explanation about the image location above the article:

Images of PSM biographical articles are always placed at the beginning of the article to maintain consistency with the majority of biographies. Moving the intermediate image is not the cause of the text break since the original also had a tissue protector (currently a blank page without text). Also, because of the intervening image & blank page, the hws/hwe templates are not relevant.

This problem exists on hundreds of main namespace pages which I would like to fix. Thanks.— Ineuw talk 18:53, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * The hws/hwe templates are relevant & still work. All you needed to do was exclude the 2 image related page nos. in the pages tag in the mainspace. -- George Orwell III (talk) 19:52, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Many thanks, — Ineuw talk 22:07, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Main namespace page link to scans index is missing
THIS PAGE is missing it's "Source" tab to the scans Index and thus the page numbers in the left margin. Can someone please tell me what is wrong? There are other articles in the project with the same issue and I would like to know how to correct.— Ineuw talk 05:08, 16 December 2013 (UTC)


 * An edit fixed it. I would guess that a null edit might resolve the matter, though cannot tell without trying. For what it is worth, with those pages we could be looking to change to use the <tt>contributor</tt> parameter in the header, in preference to the code that is there. — billinghurst  sDrewth  15:24, 16 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, and a belated thanks for your help. Belated because the notification system doesn't (always) notifies of responses. I will make the code change to "contributor" in the next occurrence.— Ineuw talk 18:31, 16 December 2013 (UTC)


 * billinghurst, can you please clarify how I could use contributor in my scheme of a header. I tried replacing the author parameter with "contributor" and it failed. — Ineuw talk 15:42, 19 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Contributor is an additional field in Header. You need to keep the author field but can leave it blank. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:58, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That's what I learned. Without "author" the template fails.— Ineuw talk 05:06, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Syed Shareef Hussain
Sir my grand father's name is Syed Shareef Hussain .he was asst exta commisioner (Tehsildar) punjab as mentioned in this site ,pls tell me his father's name so that it could be varified that Syed shareef Hussain mentioned in 1915 honours is my grand father.
 * I am presuming that this is the Indian Biographical Dictionary, 1915. Unfortunately none of us is really in the position to make that declaration. All we have done is reproduced a work, we do not know the evidence for the research within the work.  You will need to go to the relevant record archives for that research. — billinghurst  sDrewth  15:19, 16 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Perhaps if you try first [The UK National Archives and even the US Library of Congress. You may be pleasantly surprised. — [[User talk:Ineuw|Ineuw talk]] 18:38, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

PSM article default display layout
The PSM main namespace articles revert to Display 2 which I need to change to the standard Display 1 while working on the pages. I looked in all the obvious places known to me but didn't find the source of this setting. Can someone please point me to the location of this setting? Thanks in advance.— Ineuw talk 18:45, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It is not a PSM issue but a Main ns general issue. No idea why it happened.--Mpaa (talk) 14:38, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sure you folks know by now the Layout routine was overhauled recently and the "last layout" selected is suppose to be kept for the next transluded page view via cookie was fixed in the process.
 * The only thing Eliyak could think of that might be causing something like that has been [//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3APageNumbers.js&diff=4697598&oldid=4674848 modified] in our MediaWiki:PageNumbers.js (with the reasoning that java counts "0" as the first integer [1]). Give the change a chance to work its way through your existing cache - or go about manually clearing/refreshing it - to see if that behavior is now corrected & report back. Thanks. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:10, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Not that I know anything about the mechanics of this issue, but in reading some of the earlier discussion I gained the impression (!!!!note could be quite wrong!!!!) that at least some of the last-selected-layout was stored in a (or several) cookies. This might be stating the obvious, but has anybody tried deleting their browser cookies, logging in again and then selecting the layout-of-their-dreams? (And then of course subsequently checked that the choice made really sticks?) Viewer2 (talk) 02:16, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Viewer2 you're my hero! I deleted the all Wikisource cookies and it works. My only concern is that I also have a lot of other site specific cookies from various Wikimedia sites, as well as unified login which logged me back in to WS. Does anyone know which is the primary site for the unified login? My thinking is that it might be deleting all cookies and use only the unified system. Any thoughts on that? — Ineuw talk 02:34, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for stress testing a mere theory of mine (such blind trust!) I'm not quite sure about this either, but could be the "unified login" site for which you are looking? Viewer2 (talk) 02:39, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I think that's the page. The purpose (my) is to delete the numerous individual mw cookies and log in through one central site and see what changes. As for the Display setting of the stored WS cookie, the behavior of reverting to a user default also works. However, I can't figure out when and how it was set. Finally, is that you Bullwinkle? — Ineuw talk 03:21, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Typsetting sums
Index:Sheet Metal Drafting.djvu - can someone have a look over this and tell me how to format the sums on some pages? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:04, 16 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Can you be more specific? Which sums are you referring to? Also, do you have the images? Since metal working is very familiar to me, I offer my limited expertise to upload the images to the commons for you to insert. — Ineuw talk 21:35, 16 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't have the images yet. I tend to do text only, The images for this being patterns for the most probably need a more involved transcription than straight extraction. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:56, 17 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Not sure if this is what you are asking for, but I had a go at Page:Sheet Metal Drafting.djvu/33, which seemed a likely candidate. Is this what you wanted or are you looking for a more &lt;math&gt;-oriented approach? Viewer2 (talk) 22:14, 16 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Page now validated. Thanks, If you are willing to look over other pages it would be appreciated.

In places I've used math blocks because it was the best way to get the appropriate formatting. However I wasn't sure how to do 1¼ style fractions inside math blocks, as I am not really a TeX person. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:56, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * w.r.t. the last I sympathise, as I am constantly learning things I "ought to know" about TeX. I think your example might work O.K. with this: $$\scriptstyle{1\frac{1}{4}}$$ …renders as $$\scriptstyle{1\frac{1}{4}}$$. Is that close enough? Credit to User:Clockery for introducing me to w:WP:MATH, which has become my constant bail-me-out helper for these things! Viewer2 (talk) 10:24, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * For now that would be ok, in the source text the fractions are the same height as the adjacent digits. Probably possible in TeX, but I don't know how. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:45, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * O.K. So far I have been unsuccessful in finding a method under the &lt;math&gt; package which produces equal-height numerals and fractions. This does not say full Tex does not support them, just I don't know how to do so within the limitations of this environment. Being (more than) slightly ridiculous, 1 produces 1, which I personally find nearly impossible to read, and besides which is completely fragile and breaks as soon as the browser font changes. Indeed it probably does not work for anybody else right now. I don't think this is the right approach. Viewer2 (talk) 22:07, 17 December 2013 (UTC)


 * BTW My reasons for getting this book transcribed is that a large number of the calculations and methods in this work are applicable to card modelling as well. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:52, 17 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Pardon, I lack the background to understand this point. I'll get out of the road and leave somebody who does to continue the discussion. Viewer2 (talk) 22:07, 17 December 2013 (UTC)


 * That was a general comment about the book, I was wanting to get it transcribed because the techniques used for sheet metal drafting can also be used for drafting card and paper constructions. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:22, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Separator template
Template:Separator apparently uses the css  although it's usage seems to suggest it should be

But I'm not sure if that is the case for all usages. Should I add a parameter to change the alignment keeping the default value right so that current usage is not affected while future usage can be fixed? Or is there some other easier/better method to fix this?

Thanks--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 17:21, 17 December 2013 (UTC)


 * The short answer is: No . Please don't change this, quite apart from the fact any change should try to preserve previously accepted behaviour. The apparent right alignment directive you have spotted applies to the cells of the table used internally to the template to build up the overall effect. To use the simplest case as an example, the current template produces this:

but the change you propose would produce this instead (dots changed to asterisks to increase visibility in the demonstration):
 * Is this really the effect you wanted? I wonder if you are perhaps looking for something like this instead? produces:


 * Whilst produces:


 * In case you are wondering where the numbers come from, the "5" specifies how many "char"s to produce, and the "18%" comes from the fact I want the end result to be 80% (i.e. 5&times;18) of the normal line width. Kindly adjust to suit your purposes. Viewer2 (talk) 21:11, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the information. I'll use what you recommend.
 * I agree that existing behaviour should generally not be changed. But I looked at a few uses of the separator template, , , , , and ; and it seems that people use it for the centrally aligned dots (not the current right-aligned behaviour). I'm not sure if this is the case in a majority of usecases, but if it is, it will probably be easier to change/fix the template than fix a majority of transclusions. Someone needs to look into this.
 * Thanks for the help.--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 11:56, 18 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I had a quick look at that list of examples you compiled, and note in passing that most of them actually could have used the simpler forms of *** to better effect than separator in any case. Take heart in that it is in the nature of this project that there is rarely only one way to do things, and often even asking three people for the "best approach" to a given issue can occasionally end up with five disputed equal top choices. So if you find something which works for you stick to it until you find something better and so forth.
 * Returning to the matter of improving/changing separator, upon further thought that  is rather dangerously deceptive. I did not express this point well earlier, but if you look closely you will note the very first "." has its own style (i.e. style="width:0;", applied to a table cell.) This effectively means that this dot is effectively left-aligned, and all of its mates are right-aligned. So turning separator into a clone of *** is not as simple as changing that one style statement. And why do it at all when the alternative already exists? Viewer2 (talk) 02:32, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Need an alt. to rule that won't break the block center/s/e templates
On this page. Thanks ahead of time! Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:03, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * rule has worked for me on that page, but bar didn't behave. Is it OK for you now? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:18, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Weird; rule initially worked for me on Page but not in Main. Now it works in the Main.  Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:34, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Page:Sheet_Metal_Drafting.djvu/38
Please explain in idiot proof terms why in this page the call to td refuses to recognise the 1= syntax correctly? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:07, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well that would be inappropriate, as I am sure you are not an idiot. In lightning summary, your problem is that some of the values you wish to pass into the template as happen to contain "=" signs themselves, and this serves to confuse the parser.  To address the problem, I suggest you enclose every intended literal "=" sign in double-braces, (i.e. make use of =) which "hides" the (1=para=meter) case.  Is this clear enough, now? Please ask again if you need more detail. Viewer2 (talk) 11:45, 22 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I thought it was that, thanks.. Always the little things ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:34, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

DAISY FORMAT IN OTHER LANGUAGES
Hello, I am a wikimedia volunteer at ml.wikipedia ml.wikisource and an admin in wikiquote ml. I do some volunteering with organizations that work with the Visually impaired. Recently I was asked by a member of the DAISY consortium if we at malayalam wikisource could help the blind read wikisource books and wikipedia articles in DAISY FORMAT. Can we upload DAISY formats onto wikimedia sites? Does the English wikisource have such facilities.Do enlighten me Wish you all a happy xmas and a happy new year--Fuadaj (talk) 19:40, 24 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I have some experience with the blind, this seems more like a request to meet the desires of Daisy, than the blind. Wikisource is blind friendly, and all of the content is currently available in and easily transferable to other formats for the blind.  I am unaware of any attributes Daisy would offer the blind reader, that are not already here. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 17:48, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Jeepday Sock. I am afraid you missed my point completely. We in Kerala, India, do not have a choice of formats for the blind.There is at present only one malayalam reader that can do the job of reading wikipedia sites somewhat decently. Somewhat I should say withing quotes.DAISY readers are the only talking readers in currency here.It is yet to make considerable penetration. You should remember that we are not exactly a rich or prosperous society and the differently abled receive raw deals.That being the case, the blind community would definitely find it a boon to have malayalaam wikisource books and wikipedia articles at their finger tips.We have organizations that are willing to do the conversion free of cost. What is now needed is a platform to log into and dowload the converted material.This is where I need advice and instructions.--Fuadaj (talk) 19:38, 24 December 2013 (UTC)


 * OK, I am understanding better now. You want to create works in the Daisy format and post them on Wikisource, for blind readers to download. If this is correct, then there are two obstacles.


 * 1. To post on Wikisource, Wikipedia, or Commons; the work has to be Public Domain or Creative Commons. I am guessing you are already aware of that, and would be limiting to these works.


 * 2. File format; I looked at DAISY_Digital_Talking_Book and I am not exactly sure what the file format is for these works. The current allowable file formats are: png, gif, jpg, jpeg, tiff, tif, xcf, pdf, mid, ogg, ogv, svg, djvu, oga, flac, wav, webm. If Daisy is not one of these you would need to have it added.


 * What is the file format you want to load? Jeepday (talk) 20:59, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much again. The Creative Commons issue can be taken care of.But DAISY is based on mp3 and I see that it is not supported on Wikimedia.Could you please let me know how I can proceed in this matter? Are yOU aware of the blind using wikimedia contents in DAISY in any language? HAPPY XMAS--Fuadaj (talk) 05:35, 25 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I am not aware of any blind users who are using DAISY. I live in the USA, all the blind I know are reading books on tape from National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped and/or using JAWS (screen reader).


 * To get mp3 added as a format, you would need to talk to the Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home they are the parent organization for Wikisource, Wikipedia, and Commons. Jeepday (talk) 11:12, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

I am now told that .wav files are also supported in DAISY.The obvious drawback would be the huge file size.If I do make such an audio file of a poem or short story, where do I upload it? Does WIKISOURCE have such a repository? Or do I go to wikicommons and create a new category?--Fuadaj (talk) 12:24, 25 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Commons would be the best place to load the files. The only raw files you would load to Wikisource, are one that are legal in the US but not in the country of origin, for copyright reasons.  Here is our Help:Audio.  If the work is in print on Wikisource it will reach a wider audience if you include a link to the audio like is done on In the Garden or United States Declaration of Independence. If the works are in the Malayalam language you could create a portal on ml.wikisource, for English works on en.wikisource.  Example of a portal Portal:Letters. Jeepday (talk) 14:25, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Table continuation over page break broke
How_to_Play_Chess_%28Rogers%29/Chapter_2 doesn't despite having checked the formatting.

Why was it dropping the table row containing the bishops?

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:05, 25 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Reverted back to previous - Can someone explain why a template I wrote specifically to AVOID that particualr issues

broke?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:19, 25 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I deliberately chose not to use a table (nor float right) in this instance because putting the icons at the right hand margin (particularly on wider screens) would look silly. However, table continuations need to have the nop on a line by itself at the beginning of the body. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:28, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

TOC TLC
The formatting of the first page of the analytical TOC for Stabilizing the Dollar is not uniform with the several pages that follow, if anyone out there would like to give it a go (not my forte) and make them match. The work is otherwise proofread, and I am looking over other finishing details in the Page and Main namespaces. A second set of eyes is always appreciated! Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:14, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Possible solution added to Page talk:Stabilizing the dollar, Fisher, 1920.djvu/19 as the gulag rules apparently don't permit page updates any more without logging in. Annoying. 101.174.143.125 03:51, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Your work has been copy/pasted & proofread. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

What title to use?
I'm planning on transcribing this edition of Patriotism and Christianity by Tolstoy, but the book also contains additional works by him. (The full title is Patriotism and christianity: to which is appended "A reply to criticisms" of the work, and " Patriotism, or peace?". A letter called forth by the Venezuelan dispute between England and the United States). I'm not sure what page title to use, since it contains more than one work. Would it be all right if I just used Patriotism and Christianity?--Frglz (talk) 12:20, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I say go for it. Titles like that aren't very good for this MediaWiki because it'll wrap around about three times and look kind of ugly.  Since Patriotism and Christianity is the main work, use that.—<font style="color: #000000; text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold">Zhaladshar <font style="color: #FF0000; font-size: small; text-decoration: none">(Talk) 14:00, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. I'll do that.--Frglz (talk) 19:47, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * You can always create redirects or links in disambiguation pages (if any) for the other works.--Mpaa (talk) 18:13, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. I think I'll merge Patriotism, or Peace? within the structure of the archive.org book, since it has no source and it seems to be the same translation.--Frglz (talk) 19:47, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Where to put a proposed text?
I have a text on civil nuclear technology aimed at people with little or no knowledge of science beyond the existence of atoms, elements and nuclear energy. The content is essentially factual so that further editing would be inappropriate; topics are 1, basic principles; 2, power reactors; 3, fuel manufacture; 4, reprocessing and recycling; 5, special topics (my own particular interests among suggested future developments). There is a series of lectures recorded as Powerpoint presentations with voice-over that might but need not be attached. Would this be a suitable contribution to the Wiki empire, and if so, in which province - Wikiversity, Wikibooks or what? 14:10, 31 December 2013 (UTC)14:10, 31 December 2013 (UTC)Peter Wilson?


 * Wikiversity or Wikibooks if it's "new material" ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:55, 2 January 2014 (UTC)