Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2023-10

Question at Template talk:Engine
At Template talk:Engine there is a question to Inductiveload, who has been inactive recently, so could somebody else competent have a look at it? -- Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:23, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Seems to be resolved now. Thanks! Bovlb (talk) 17:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This section was archived on a request by: Bovlb (talk) 17:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Index:Constantinople by Brodribb.djvu
I need help with 2 pages in this index: 198 and 199. Both pages have an inheritance tree structure that I haven't been able to transcribe. If someone can complete those, it would be great. Ciridae (talk) 03:45, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ciridae: Does it look good? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 14:45, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does. Thank you! Ciridae (talk) 16:21, 19 October 2023 (UTC)


 * This section was archived on a request by: Ciridae (talk) 16:21, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-40
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * There is a new user preference for "". This setting will make pages load without including any on-wiki JavaScript or on-wiki stylesheet pages. It can be useful for debugging broken JavaScript gadgets.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Gadget definitions now have a new " contentModels " option. The option takes a list of page content models, like  or  . Gadgets that use this option will only load on pages with the given content models.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg The Vector 2022 skin will no longer use the custom styles and scripts of Vector legacy (2010). The change will be made later this year or in early 2024. See how to adjust the CSS and JS pages on your wiki.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 

MediaWiki message delivery 01:26, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Index:The_Novels_of_Ivan_Turgenev_(volume_VII).djvu
Okay which edition does Commons ACTUALLY have uploaded, because the page layout seemed to bear very little relation to what is on the listed source at Commons (namely a list of illustrations.) ?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:58, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Now resolved, but it would be nice if contributors checked that the source listed on Commons, conformed with the edition actually uploaded ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:07, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Using AutoWikiBrowser to cleanup a 2100-page work
I've been cleaning up The Urantia Book, 1st Edition. It's over 2100 pages and is a stalled out 10-year-old effort. I've tried using AutoWikiBrowser for a few hundred pages. I've been very slow, tested in the sandbox a lot, and each edit with AWB is a 100% interactive, manual review by me. This saves a lot of time and hugely reduces my error rate. I've also learned a lot through this.

Assuming this continued to be a slow and 100% interactive just for this one work, do I need a bot account? Or do I need to make a bot request and have someone else do this? I'm new to WS, trying to be an efficient editor, but also want to play by the rules. :) Thanks! Brad606 (talk) 05:39, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @Brad606: If a human is checking every edit you do not need a bot account. Xover (talk) 05:43, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. Thanks @Xover Brad606 (talk) 13:59, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-41
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * One new wiki has been created: a in Fon

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Starting on Wednesday, a new set of Wikipedias will get "Add a link" . This is part of the progressive deployment of this tool to more Wikipedias. The communities can configure how this feature works locally.
 * At some wikis, newcomers are suggested images from Commons to add to articles without any images. Starting on Tuesday, newcomers at these wikis will be able to add images to unillustrated article sections. The specific wikis are listed under "Images recommendations" at the Growth team deployment table. You can learn more about this feature.
 * Octicons-tools.svg In the mobile web skin (Minerva) the CSS ID  will be replaced with  . This change is to make it consistent with other skins and to improve support for gadgets and extensions in the mobile skin. A few gadgets may need to be updated; there are details and search-links in the task.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 

MediaWiki message delivery 14:39, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Opportunities open for the Affiliations Committee, Ombuds commission, and the Case Review Committee
  You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.

 m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Legal department/Committee appointments/Announcement/Short • 

Hi everyone! The Affiliations Committee (AffCom), Ombuds commission (OC), and the Case Review Committee (CRC) are looking for new members. These volunteer groups provide important structural and oversight support for the community and movement. People are encouraged to nominate themselves or encourage others they feel would contribute to these groups to apply. There is more information about the roles of the groups, the skills needed, and the opportunity to apply on the Meta-wiki page.

On behalf of the Committee Support team, 

~ Keegan (WMF) (talk) 16:41, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Some problems in page namespace
When editing in the page namespace, since a couple of days - I don't know exactly since when -, I encounter two strange changes, which may be connected: What has happened? Who can change this back to the old situation?
 * 1) on the bottom, besides the coloured radio-buttons for "without text, not proofread, problematic, proofread, validated" (grey, pink, blue, yellow, green), there appears a text " Page status ". This looks like an error.
 * 2) when changing the button, e.g. from "not proofread" (pink) to "proofread" (yellow), and then pressing "Show preview", the button jumps back to the previous state. So that I have to click the correct radio-button again, when I publish my edits. This is extra work, and it never worked this way in the (recent) past.

Thanks in advance, --Dick Bos (talk) 18:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Both problems appear also in the French Wikisource. Here, I can only reproduce the second problem (maybe something has changed). I just created a Phabricator task. Seudo (talk) 20:22, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * These bugs were from work I did on the page-quality widget. Sorry! Fixes for some parts are already done and merged and will be deployed soon, and the remaining part is now waiting review. Let me know if there are other bugs, and thanks for making the phab tasks. Sam Wilson 01:37, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sam Wilson. All is functioning normal again (also on Dutch Wikisource) - as far as this little problem concerns. Thanks a lot for the quick repair. --Dick Bos (talk) 17:47, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Great! Let me know if you find other problems. Sam Wilson 00:39, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

A Portal For Sandwich Recipes?
Under what portal category could the portal for compilations of sandwich recipes, either Portal:Sandwich recipes or simply Portal:Sandwiches, go under? -- Apisite (talk) 11:41, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * See Portal:Cookbooks; LC classification TX. You can include the sandwich recipe books in this portal, unless there are a substantial number of works that warrant a separate portal. Ciridae (talk) 11:38, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply; I added a Cookbook from my Wish-list to the Portal of Cookbooks. --Apisite (talk) 19:41, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The book has been uploaded to Commons and the index page can be found here: . Happy proofreading! Ciridae (talk) 05:48, 10 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks, the sandwich book was a pleasure to proofread. --Apisite (talk) 05:48, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * You need to add headers and footers in the pages; there are images there. Also the Table of Contents needs to be fixed, and you need to check the alignment of the text in the pages. Have a look at the help pages. Also, check out a few of the completed works from the main page for tips. Ciridae (talk) 07:40, 11 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I updated the table of contents by adapting what was done with the table of contents of the book The Tsar's Window. Now I have to sleep, at least. --Apisite (talk) 08:37, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-42
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * The Unified login system's edge login should now be fixed for some browsers (Chrome, Edge, Opera). This means that if you visit a new sister project wiki, you should be logged in automatically without the need to click "Log in" or reload the page. Feedback on whether it's working for you is welcome.
 * Edit notices are now available within the MobileFrontend/Minerva skin. This feature was inspired by the gadget on English Wikipedia. See more details in T316178.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

Future changes
 * In 3 weeks, in the Vector 2022 skin, code related to  and  that was deprecated one year ago will be removed. If you notice tools that should appear next to the "Discussion" tab are then missing, please tell the gadget's maintainers to see instructions in the Phabricator task.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 

MediaWiki message delivery 23:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Review and comment on the 2024 Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees selection rules package

 *  You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.
 *  m:Special:MyLanguage/wiki/Wikimedia Foundation elections/2024/Announcement/Rules package review - short • 

Dear all,

Please review and comment on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees selection rules package from now until 29 October 2023. The selection rules package was based on older versions by the Elections Committee and will be used in the 2024 Board of Trustees selection. Providing your comments now will help them provide a smoother, better Board selection process. More on the Meta-wiki page.

Best,

Katie Chan Chair of the Elections Committee <section end="announcement-content" />

01:13, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Invitation for Wikisource Community Meeting October 2023
Hello fellow Wikisource enthusiasts!

We are the hosting this month’s Wikisource Community meeting on 28 October 2023, 7 AM UTC (check your local time). This meeting time is Eastern Hemisphere-focused and we will alternate the meeting times every month.

The first half of the meeting will be focused on non-technical updates and conversations like events, conferences, proofread-a-thons and collaborations. The second half will be focused on technical updates and conversations, such as talking about major challenges faced by Wikisource communities, similar to the ones conducted in previous Community meetings.

If you are interested in joining the meeting, kindly leave a message on sgill@wikimedia.org and we will add you to the calendar invite.

Meanwhile, feel free to check out the page on Meta-wiki and suggest any other topics for the agenda.

Regards KLawal-WMF, PMenon-WMF, Sam Wilson (WMF), and Satdeep Gill (WMF)

Sent using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Error in original TOC
Hi. I have the situation of a listing missing from an original TOC, and I want to make sure I proceed as Wikisource would want me to.

The offending title is at https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Varied_Types_(1903).djvu. The TOC on the index page reflects what the original source does. However, between the chapters Maeterlinck and Queen Victoria, there actually exists an additional omitted chapter listing in the book, which starts on page 217, where the Queen Victoria chapter is supposed to reside.

So my initial urge is to just fix it—add the missing chapter in the TOC, shift the others down, and correct any page numbers. If I do this, do I make some sort of notation about what was done? Or should I just leave everything as-is claiming this was the way the original source was published?

Thank you for your time. snafu22q (talk) 18:03, 13 October 2023 (UTC)


 * What I do in this situation is transclude the printed TOC as is and add an AuxTOC for the missing items. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:44, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Since you're using TOC begin, one alternative is to add the  class to get the green background (as defined in Template:TOC templates/styles.css)—like . For the page numbers, I would use SIC. In general, you don't want to change the original text without saying that's what you're doing, but it is good to fix these errors so readers aren't confused. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 04:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your help. It turned out exactly the way I would have wanted, but I wasn't sure how to get there, and I'm not sure I understand exactly *why* it works like it does. One question I have is about the fvn tagging—I'm assuming that's what nullifies the small caps format for that small piece of text? I have other questions, but I guess I'll figure them out as I go along.
 * While I have your attention, could you see if I have transcluded the chapters correctly? By that i mean there are pages between the chapters that I didn't think should be included, but I'm really not sure. And do I let the one 'problematic' page prevent me from labelling the index as proofread (once I finish the last few pages)?
 * Again, thank you for your help. snafu22q (talk) 06:33, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

@Snafu22q: Glad I could help! Indeed, fvn removes the small caps formatting. expands to and the  class means that the row has a green background. The transclusion looks good to me. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 06:59, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

'Stuppai' in Forward! by Harold Lamb
'Stuppai' in this rendition of 'Forward!' looks to be two words ('stup pai') when viewing the October 10, 1924 issue of Adventure Magazine. see page 7 column 1 paragraph 6 -- which shows a space between the p's. And confirmed in column 2, paragraph 5 of the same page. The language is stated to be Russian in the text, but Google Translate says it means 'come on' in Lithuanian. PDFs of the issue can be found at archive.org, luminist.org and elsewhere. That the word is in an italics font may have obscured this. 73.206.16.128 20:59, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * See Forward (Lamb) and here. Based on the spacing of other italicized phrases, I would have to disagree. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 21:23, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I see your point, but the space appears obvious--at least to me. Of course, I might be looking for a space to be there.
 * The trouble is neither the one, nor two word version seem to have any meaning in Russian. However, the 2 word version does have a meaning in Lithuanian. And, I have since discovered both the one & two word versions have meanings in Ukrainian. 73.206.16.128 07:21, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Neither "stup pai" or "stuppai" are valid Ukrainian or Russian, since those languages are written in the Cyrillic script. I'm not finding stup in Lithuanian at all. Ukrainian is pretty close to Russian, so it's likely if it has meanings in Ukrainian, it has meanings in at least dialects of Russian. If I had Cyrillic spellings, I might be able to poke at it more, but I find the whole thing mildly pointless; the question is what is written, not whether it is correct.
 * As for what is written in the Adventure Magazine, I compare it to the splash and sau bul at the top of the page, and the mon prince at the bottom of page 9, and it looks like the kerning and design of the italic p in this font leaves a little more space than would be desired in pp, but it's clearly not supposed to be two words.--Prosfilaes (talk) 17:35, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I found a few old books saying that Suwarrow (i.e. Suvorov)'s favourite maxim was "Stuppai e Be" meaning "Forward and Strike", no idea what the modern transcription of that would be though. -- Beleg Âlt (talk) 21:18, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * stupajka in Polish is slang for policeman, but also has tsarist overtones. My references do not give an etymology. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:31, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I did a bit more digging, and I'm convinced that the word is ступай - with "Forward" being a very loose translation. -- Beleg Âlt (talk) 18:39, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Zuleika Dobson
There are two versions, a 1911 UK version - Index:Zuleika Dobson.djvu and a 1912 US version - Index:Zuleika Dobson; (IA zuleikadobsonbee00beer).pdf. Do we want both ?

@Languageseeker - it seems that you created both. -- Beardo (talk) 16:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I see no reason not to keep both —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:47, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Fine - I have linked the other from the author page. -- Beardo (talk) 14:04, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Changes to templates of the same name. How are they managed?
I came across an unexpected change to the sp template. The spacing parameter became a fixed value, whereas I often used it with various spacing parameters, years ago.

I am now using the lsp template as a replacement for sp and my question is, what happened to the old templates which included this or other parameters for spacing? Were they edited by a script? &#32;— ineuw (talk) 07:30, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-43
<section begin="technews-2023-W43"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * There is a new Language and internationalization newsletter, written quarterly. It contains updates on new feature development, improvements in various language-related technical projects, and related support work.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Source map support has been enabled on all wikis. When you open the debugger in your browser's developer tools, you should be able to see the unminified JavaScript source code.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W43"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 23:16, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Tech News: 2023-44
<section begin="technews-2023-W44"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * The Structured Content team, as part of its project of improving UploadWizard on Commons, made some UX improvements to the upload step of choosing own vs not own work (T347590), as well as to the licensing step for own work (T347756).
 * The Design Systems team has released version 1.0.0 of Codex, the new design system for Wikimedia. See the full announcement about the release of Codex 1.0.0.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Listings on category pages are sorted on each wiki for that language using a library. For a brief period on 2 November, changes to categories will not be sorted correctly for many languages. This is because the developers are upgrading to a new version of the library. They will then use a script to fix the existing categories. This will take a few hours or a few days depending on how big the wiki is. You can read more.
 * Starting November 1, the impact module (Special:Impact) will be upgraded by the Growth team. The new impact module shows newcomers more data regarding their impact on the wiki. It was tested by a few wikis during the last few months.

Future changes
 * There is a proposed plan for re-enabling the Graph Extension. You can help by reviewing this proposal and sharing what you think about it.
 * The WMF is working on making it possible for administrators to edit MediaWiki configuration directly. This is similar to previous work on Special:EditGrowthConfig. A technical RfC is running until November 08, where you can provide feedback.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2023-W44"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 23:21, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

A couple of Mormon-related documents
We have Address from Jackson County citizens regarding the Mormons - July 20 1833 and Memorandum of agreement between Mormons and Jackson County citizen committee. Both seem to come from "The Western Monitor" of August 2, 1833 which is transcribed here - http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/MO/Miss1831.htm#080233 which states "Note: No copy of this issue of the Fayette Western Monitor has yet been located for transcription. The text was taken from the LDS History of the Church I, pp. 394-402. See also the Columbia, Missouri Intelligencer, of Aug. 10, 1833 for essentially the same report."

Are we happy to accept what seems to be a third-hand transcription ? Is it OK to have those two parts separate ? -- Beardo (talk) 14:10, 22 October 2023 (UTC)


 * In my understanding adding works without the original printed source is no longer accepted practice on Wikisource. It was done a lot early on, when people were just grabbing stuff from Project Gutenberg and elsewhere and putting it here. Nowadays one should import a scanned version and work off of that. In order to reproduce the articles, there'd need to be either a scan of the newspapers or a scan of The History of the Church. The latter seems to be the way to go. Arbitan (talk) 05:11, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Popular Science Monthly, The Scientific Monthly, World's Advance...
I've written elsewhere about how the Popular Science Monthly name was acquired in September 1915 and reused for a magazine Wikipedia calls Electrician and Mechanic but was known at the time as World's Advance (Wikipedia cites several other names, apparently it went through five names in two years), while the successor to PSM The Scientific Monthly was launched the following month. Anyway, it seems to me that this leads to a little bit of difficulty for characterising these periodicals; according to the Bulletin of Bibliography January 1916 the World's Advance publisher suggested that the "new" PSM be treated as World's Advance, while the Scientific Monthly publisher suggested that the Scientific Monthly be handled alongside the "old" PSM. I figure the best way to handle this is on our end as follows: Thoughts? Arcorann (talk) 11:22, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * PSM up to vol 87 issue 3 stays where it is.
 * One new page for Electrician and Mechanic/World's Advance and PSM from vol 87 issue 4. (Where is the guideline for periodicals that change name?)
 * The Scientific Monthly keeps its own page, but gets added to the PSM project (or else a new project launched for TSM).


 * There is no guideline for journals that change name as there is no standard for how the journals did it. The best guidance that we give, is to just publish them per the name of the journal, and the volumes. That way they remain true to how they are published. Then we build a portal namespace page that explains what is where and we heavily utilise redirects allow for getting people to the right place with the name variations. — billinghurst  sDrewth  14:34, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That still leaves the question of how to handle the fact that Popular Science Monthly from vol 87 issue 4 is literally a different periodical (really being World's Advance). Arcorann (talk) 11:42, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

New gadget: page cleanup button
(I'm sure there's been discussion about this before, but I can't find it now; sorry if this is a rehash!) I'm wondering about converting the PageCleanUp script into a gadget. I think it'd be good to use version that doesn't do the comma-before-capitals replacement. My main reasoning is that I'm often showing people how to proofread, and I click this button in my toolbar and they want the same thing — but it's tricky to explain adding user scripts to a newbie, and a gadget would be much more approachable. What do people think? I'm sure there are lots of different ways of doing this sort of task (e.g. TemplateScript), but a simple toolbar button is a good start I think. Sam Wilson 11:15, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds very good to me. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:43, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * And for those of us who don't use a toolbar? Will it still be invokable from the sidebar as currently? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The user script I'm talking of doesn't currently load in the sidebar, but definitely it can be changed to do so if there's no toolbar, good idea. would either of you be interested in making this gadget (pinging you as I think you've worked on similar things recently)? Or could I be given interface-admin rights to do so? Sam Wilson 03:44, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No available time to do much Sam. I know that my cleanup script has complexity, and elements of specificity for the quirky works that I do. Given time again, I would love to be able to compartmentalise the elements of the cleanup, and turn certain ones on per work. It would be great if we could specify per index level which cleanup compartments would apply for a work. [Think that would be really helpful for setting up shared contributed works] — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:05, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries, I figured as much! And it's a good point about the complexities of clean up scripts; it's hard to make a general-purpose one. I'm now thinking that it's probably a better use of time to come up with a way of composing sets of regexes together as you say, to form reusable compartments for this stuff (and probably still have a general cleanup one, different per language). It'll be easier to build that sort of thing in the Wikisource extension, I think, so I've made for that. Sam Wilson 05:36, 7 November 2023 (UTC)