User talk:Tar-ba-gan/2008-2013

Hello Tar-ba-gan, welcome to Wikisource! Thanks for your interest in the project; we hope you'll enjoy the community and your work here.

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The Community Portal lists tasks you can help with if you wish. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me on my talk page! Yann (talk) 09:12, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Index:Twentieth Century Impressions of Hongkong, Shanghai, and other Treaty Ports of China.djvu
I have added the newer welcome message above, especially as it gives helpful links to show the modern way that we have been transcribing works at Wikisource.

I have uploaded the djvu scan of the work in which you have been undertaking transcription that allows us to further verify text. I invite you to look to utilise that going forward. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:47, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Linking through to the page namespace is not how we would encourage the work to be done.[//en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Twentieth_Century_Impressions_of_Hongkong,_Shanghai,_and_other_Treaty_Ports_of_China&curid=1477974&diff=4439697&oldid=4438741&rcid=4394637 This edit] if followed drops someone straight into the Page: ns, and that is not we try to do with out works. We consider the page namespace a working namespace only for where contributors fix the text on the page, then uch pages are then transcluded into the main namespace.  To link to a page we would put in place a link to where the transcluded page will be, eg. "Work name/Chapter XX#nn" where the nn is the actual page number. I will try to do some quick examples on the work for you to see what I mean. — billinghurst  sDrewth  14:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I have a little better understanding after having a hack at the table of contents. Generally what we have been trying to do in the main namespace is to replicate the work itself, without embellishment; sort of remain true to the original production. Our current practice would be to look to transclude the opening pages of the work as the initial pages to display onto the lead pages of the work, eg. as a recent example of one of mine A Critical Examination of Dr G. Birkbeck Hills "Johnsonian" Editions. I have been through and converted the ToC into a table which allows for a neater presentation form, and removed the links on the page numbers, as in our form of the work where we link to chapters, it is pretty well superfluous. What we want to ensure is that when the work is validated that we run get the Index crosslinked so entries can be hyperlinked, and we already have a couple of people who can do that for us. — billinghurst  sDrewth  15:28, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Twentieth Century Impressions of Hongkong, Shanghai, and other Treaty Ports of China
Thanks for giving some detailed explanations. I appreciate it. I am definitely down with the transclusion of the original Contents because it is very neat and "original".

I am sorry that at this stage I am reluctant to change my mode of work on the subject. There are reasons as follows:


 * This is a damn large volume to edit: over 800 pages. I need direct links to as many pages and sections as possible in order to work on them and not get bored.
 * The original Contents list given in this work is faulty. A lot of sections that occupy several pages are not attested to in the Contents, even when they have general title, such as the chapters you referred to. The "leading residents" sections are present in the Contents for Shanghai alone, while even Hongkong has 4 distinct chapters for that, and somehow they do not follow each other.
 * The structure of the book is not as logical as it could be. Apart from the aforementioned 4 different chapters of biographies given for Hongkong with Harbour and Shipping separating them, the general sections are as follows:
 * Introduction
 * Hongkong -
 * China General (not stated in Contents as such) -
 * Shanghai (including Meteorology of Hongkong) -
 * Other cities, where Macao includes a subchapter "Lappa Customs" attested to in the contents, but it is not evident from Contents that it is a Macao subchapter. Macao biographies and locations after Lappa Customs are not attested to and not having titles for the related subchapters)
 * Okay, I will have a look at the work a little more closely to see what other things we can do to, to get what you want, and look to maintain some of our ideas around the reproduction, especially when it probably better portrays the work. There are some other tricks. I completely understand the aspects about not wanting to be bored.

What I intend on doing is making the book readable as "long pages" (interlinked) as well as "short pages" (interlinked). The example may be found here: Author:Ts'o Seen Wan. Some of my reasons are that
 * I observe this book as an encyclopedia in its own right, where the editors or publishers failed to come up with consistent methodology for combining entries into clusters / for sorting them. Wikisource allows to make each individual entry to become more accessible (which the original edition failed to do despite the index in the end).
 * The value of this book (shared with the other books of XXth Century Impression series by the same author(s)) is that it provides images together with individual descriptions (biographies, buildings, etc.).

I have yet to come up with an idea as to how I should be finally presenting the contents of that book. Transclusion of the Contents should be where you put it, but it should have alternatives for the above reason that a lot of sections are just not being included.
 * I will take some time off from my other bits, and see whether I can bring some suggestions.

I am sorry, it is 1:30 am in China now so I have to go offline and cut my reasoning short. My nearest plans are to work on portraits of Hongkong people from the book (there are several dozen). I believe I have some friends here who might be personally interested in seeing them. I would very much appreciate your assessment and help with my other uploads (visit my userpage please), especially
 * Not a problem, I am only a few hours ahead of you, and was doing a very late night.


 * Lhasa and Central Tibet that is occasionally blocked from my access because of where I am.
 * I do not believe I will be working on Japanese Gardens in the next couple of years so I need to get someone else interested because it is a beautiful book, and
 * I have problems renaming English Adventurers where I uploaded a 1917 edition instead of the first, 1914 edition as I stated in the file name.

Please keep up your good works, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 17:42, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, I will take a look at these, and might drop a few pointers to others, over the next week or so; better that we get a good framework for the existing work as the priority. The works sound like they drag us away from some of normal (tunnel) vision.  Some might make good suggestions for Proofread of the Month.

people who can do that for us
You wrote: "What we want to ensure is that when the work is validated that we run get the Index crosslinked so entries can be hyperlinked, and we already have a couple of people who can do that for us." I am sorry I do not quite understand what you mean, specifically Best regards, --Tar-ba-gan (talk) 17:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) who are the people you are talking about and what exactly they do
 * 2) how this can be applied to the Twentieth Century Impressions of Hongkong, Shanghai, and other Treaty Ports of China
 * The work has index at the end, which references specific pages. One of our contributors has a script that will wikilink the page references to the pages, though he prefers to do that only when the work has been validated.

I am sorry if some of my statements looked arrogant. I admire your solitary support of what I am doing in this wikispace, that included such major steps as uploading a djvu file for the book I was interested in (so I owe you the very fact I am working on the whole book and not its Flora of Hongkong chapter that was my primary interest). I would have never come up with an entry for Author:Arnold Wright or his obituary. When I am thinking how many authors are involved in writing of Twentieth Century Impressions of Hongkong, Shanghai, and other Treaty Ports of China I cannot help shrugging. One of them, Author:Stephen Troyte Dunn, was the reason for finding this book. --Tar-ba-gan (talk) 18:14, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The author components I did see and I love having works for obscure authors, and digging up some biographical data for them. It is definitely an area where I will be providing some assistance as I can. — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:28, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Great! I am interested in obscure authors too. You can use me for assistance with Russians or Chinese. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 12:01, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello Billinghurst, there some are vague authors, I had difficulty learning about them, can you help?
 * H. A. Cartwright
 * M. T. Mansfield
 * H. W. Emerson
 * TIA, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 05:00, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Re. Index:Early English adventurers in the East (1917).djvu
Hi Tar-ba-gan,

I was just passing by when I happened to see your query about this index. Sorry if I'm putting my (xxx-larger) nose into things that don't concern me, but I just wanted to say that this had once happened to me as well. (See Index:The Vicomte de Bragelonne.djvu and Index:The Vicomte de Bragelonne 2.djvu.) What I had done that time was to leave the other file alone and upload the file again under another name. However, I'm not at all sure that that's the solution of the problem. In fact, I don't even know what causes the problem. It would be best to wait till Billinghurst replies to you. (Btw, this looks like a really silly response, so please excuse me.) Sincerely—Clockery Fairfield (talk·contribs) 16:34, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Clockery, I appreciate the fact you care. I am comparatively new on en.wikisource, so your attention to my issues is very much appreciated. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 16:41, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi again. Thanks, though taking my advice in most matters is the equivalent of dropping a Mentos into a Diet Coke. Use it at your own peril. Sincerely—Clockery Fairfield (talk·contribs) 12:57, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi. I saw there is also Index:Early English Adventurers in the East by Arnold Wright (1914).pdf, which I guess is just another edition (with also pages in Page:ns). Is the 1917 is to be preferred? Shall the other version be deleted as redundant? Can you pls advise as you have been involved in both indexes? Bye--Mpaa (talk) 13:16, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello Mpaa, it was actually the same edition, if you can, please delete it. It is a collection of mistakes that I made, being fresh at that operation: uploading PDF instead of DJVU, naming it erroneously as 1914 instead of 1917 (well, I did not know that book had a second edition), and later not being able to adequately tag it for deletion. TIA, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 15:41, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Tar-ba-gan. I've marked the 1914 index with sdelete as per creator's request. If you don't want it to be deleted now, just remove the template. A quick question—did you upload the file on WS or on Commons? Sincerely—Clockery Fairfield (talk·contribs) 15:58, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * WS. I do want it to be deleted. Thanks, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 16:04, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes_check.svg Done . —Clockery Fairfield (talk·contribs) 16:10, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Template talk:Dotted TOC page listing/bottom
Hello.

Please see my comments in the above and the changes here and here.

I hope this is the effect you were wishing to achieve. Regards, MODCHK (talk) 22:48, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I find that I did not understand the instructions on template documentation pages. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 03:44, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
--Wylve (talk) 20:34, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've responded to your message. --Wylve (talk) 14:23, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've proofread the two pages. --Wylve (talk) 15:00, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Pages marked 'Problematic' in PSM Volume 60
Hi. I am curious why you marked several pages as ’Problematic’ like this one. I proofread the first and I found your work flawless.— Ineuw talk 17:57, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no limit to perfection. However, I tried to finalize the article you referred to. I only created 1 more author page as a result. Please check. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 06:38, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Very professional. Again, thanks for your contributions.— Ineuw talk 14:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the compliments. I still believe I do not know as many wikitags as you do. Btw, if there is anything specific that you might wish me to help with, with topics not far from the items I am already working on, I will be glad to assist. Best regards, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 16:09, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Your projects of interest
I looked at the projects listed on your page and would like to contribute occasionally to topics of shared interest, specifically, to upload the missing images. At the moment, I am referring to the US Navy series of ports around the world, like the Index:Ports of the world - Canton (1920).djvu. However, I need to know where the file comes from. Can you provide the link? — Ineuw talk 17:43, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for caring! All the files I use on English wikisource come from archive.org. I am afraid I cannot be more specific. The book about Canton is really a picture book, and is additionally interesting because of the initials that are individually drawn. I would appreciate your help with it, although it is far from the problem that the book Twentieth Century Impressions of Hongkong, Shanghai, and other Treaty Ports of China is giving me. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 18:02, 30 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Twentieth Century Impressions of Hongkong, Shanghai, and other Treaty Ports of China is no problem, I already downloaded the high definition .JP2 images form IA and will sort them out. But this will take awhile since I do this as a distraction from PSM. I will look (again) on IA for the Canton booklet.— Ineuw talk 18:24, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Should be this: http://www.archive.org/details/cantonchina00unitrich Tar-ba-gan (talk) 18:29, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Got it, thanks.— Ineuw talk 18:45, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Hope that you’re not upset because of the changes - which were as follows: Uploaded the file to the Commons under THIS NAME because it’s part of a series and, others like myself, would/will like to add other books of the series later. Then, copied all your work to the new version from both the Page and the Main namespaces. Finally, I am at the point of looking at the missing images. FYI, it’s important that works are stored on the Commons and not on Wikisource. In all matters, uploading, Commons permissions, my changes to your work, etc., If you have a question please let me know. BTW, all links on WS were directed to the new file name. — Ineuw talk 01:32, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Great! Yes I hope this this may become a more popular project. If we find other booklets of the series, that is. I would be specifically interested in all ports of China they have (primarily Shanghai and Hongkong). If not (I was only able to find some 3 Ports of the World books on Archive.org), I would rather start Project Guangzhou or Project Canton, or Cantonese Project (to include Hongkong and Guangdong Province). Tar-ba-gan (talk) 05:47, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The uploaded images are stored in commons:Category:Ports of the world - Canton (1920 book).— Ineuw talk 06:22, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

A final note for the day
Inserted one type of image layout each to demonstrate the use of the new FreedImg (FI) template. I leave the rest upto you. Also want to mention that I have saved some pages as proofread, when in fact they weren’t completely checked. Please look them over. . . and again if you have any questions, leave a message or a note on my talk page.— Ineuw talk 06:45, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Images for one of your projects
Began uploading the images to commons:Category:Twentieth Century Impressions of Hongkong, Shanghai, and other Treaty Ports of China (book), but it's going to be a very long haul. There are an estimated 1,000 images and I am doing a couple of dozen every few days. But, at least you have something to work with.— Ineuw talk 06:58, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * This is great, thanks! I am currently on holiday (changing China to Russia) and not on my computer most of the time. Will get back to putting images into all the right pages some time around September 10. I really appreciate your help a lot! Without it I was thinking this job could never be completed. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 22:58, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Duplications on the commons plus other issues.
Please read my previous post above regarding the commons gallery for your Twentieth Century China Treaty ports project.

Correct me if I am wrong but I remember your asking me to help you upload images and I began doing just that. But now we are duplicating work and categories. I will longer interfere as I see that you have taken over the image work and I have plenty of other things on my plate.

Some unsolicited advice: For the duplicate images and categories, somebody on the commons will eventually notice it and it's best that you decide which category you use and organize your work. This project has about 1,000 images and the way things look now, you are generating unnecessary extra work for the commons staff.

The images in my scheme are named so that they appear in .djvu numerical order (easy to find) and the names also double as the image descriptions. This worked very well in the past and met the commons image upload criteria of descriptive names and descriptions (two flies and one swat). There is a short explanation as to why things were done the way they were. Also, on WS we don't use "thumb" framed images accompanying the text, and it's best that you use the FreedImg template which is very versatile for image placement and captioning. You can find numerous centered and offset image examples with various description styles in the PSM volumes 15 & 16.

I hope this helps. — — Ineuw talk 07:33, 25 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It is true that some months ago I uploaded some images to Commons for the book. This did not go well, proved too time-consuming for me and my system was not very consistent, so it started being a mess, and I eventually stopped. I am sorry I had never told you about that when asking for help. Thank you for all the advice. I definitely need to establish a better system of working with images for WS. Tar-ba-gan (talk) 13:58, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


 * From your reply not sure if I understand correctly. Do you wish me to continue to upload and merge your images into the category I created, or do you wish to continue on your own? — Ineuw talk 03:19, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
--Wylve (talk) 14:12, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Twentieth Century Treaty Ports images
Hi. Images' upload for this project is completed. Good luck.— Ineuw talk 19:32, 17 December 2013 (UTC)