User talk:RaboKarbakian/Archives/2018

Birdcraft
The file for this book will need to be fixed before the book can be proofread. The OCR text layer is out of synch with the scanned text. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:20, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I have been using the OCR button on every page. If there is a better way... --RaboKarbakian (talk) 17:24, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Ask in the WS:Scriptorium for someone to correct the file. There should be a text layer already there, which matches the text. I've checked several pages, and although it's there for most pages, it doesn't align with the correct pages. Asking for help fixing the file will delay work, but will make the work much easier to complete. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:34, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

small scan link
You may find the template small scan link useful for Author pages. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:20, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Bird-Lore‎
It is unclear what the purpose of this page is to be. It seems to link to volumes titled "Bird-lore", to educational pamphlets, and to plate illustrations. If this is meant to collect a variety of resources, then it will need to be converted to a Portal: of some kind. If it is meant to be the primary page for a set of volumes in a single series, then it will need to prominently display that information, along with the appropriate license for the text(s). --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:45, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Heh, sorry. I was enjoying the easiness.  The jounals contained the Educational Leaflets and also Plates.  The Educational Leaflets were spread between (iirc) Volumes 5 and 28.  The color plates started in either Vol. 4 or 5 and continued for some time.  I just thought to collect those two features, each into one list; both are only from the journal itself.  It would need to be a portal to the Jounal.


 * The navigation here is compelling... --RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:53, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Trueness to published work
I have finally had some time to look at some of your, and it diversifies from numbers of stylistic components that we have been utilising, see Style guide.

Firstly, you are not being true to the published work, and you seem to be recreating the navigation, such we have found problematic as it lacks robustness in our environment, internal to the work, and when working with other works, primarily with preparing future links. You are pulling pages up and down out of the volume and issue level, that makes navigation and templating difficult, and becomes personal rather than logical. I have started to improve Template:BLVolSpeciesheader though need to work out what is going on, whether we have to do works per issue, or per volume. We also need to get these pages best available for Wikidata, and for the eventual templating from somewhere like Wikipedia, so well worth the early investment.

Internally within the page: namespace it is quite unusual for us to utilise heading formatting  and   ..., we find that they don't have the graduations that we wish to achieve, they throw problematic section marks, and they prove difficult for users to consistently use through works. I would suggest that Help:Templates gives some good information on the size templates (div or span).

I guess this sounds very interfering, and it is, though I hope that it can see in the best light for the work, ease of work, and for fitting within our corpus of work, and calls from external. Probably a time to focus on Page: namespace for transcription, whilst we work together on the main ns navigation. — billinghurst  sDrewth  10:10, 11 May 2018 (UTC)


 * P.S. We have done lots of these, it will be fine, and hopefully make things lots easier. — billinghurst  sDrewth  10:13, 11 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I think you are abusing the word very and perhaps the word interfering also.


 * Putting all articles of one species together (especially with these smaller articles) should make a nice link for use on other wikis. The species pages are just separate from what will be the normal navigation.  Bird-Lore, Volume I, No. 1 is having what I think is the actual navigation here, it wants to go onto No. 2.


 * I started to move the Portal:Birds around. Not so much for these club type articles, but the scientific type entires on the species (in other books) contain a list of previous mentions of the species.


 * Here is an interesting example. Ornithological_Biography/Volume_1/Song_Sparrow. The lower third of that page is about a species of plant.  As a documenteur of species, it would be nice to have that description transcluded into its own page so that it might be included with the plant articles.  In the bird portion of the page, there is a list of other books that have described the Song Sparrow and what they called it.  It is the way of the TOLers (I don't like to mention them too often, them and the Flat Earthers...).


 * Perhaps the problem is the navigation. The navigation is uncomfortable to me as it is based on when mentioned in the journal.  And it would make it a lot easier to grab the species articles (without navigation).  I started the navigation among the species so that no one got lost as almost happened with the Chipping Sparrow.


 * So, as a summary, the books and magazines should all have the usual navigation. The species series should run independently and is easier to gather as I go.


 * PS, my PS is about Linaeian (an invented word) type indexers. The attempt to name everything and make an index of where it was mentioned is so appealing in its only semi-usefullness and the utter futility of the effort on our constantly changing little blue ball....  I will not attempt to sell this idea to you, but as a goal, it is irresitable. Can I please continue?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 12:55, 11 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I was going to try to spell entirely correctly but I noticed the '==' information. I am so glad to be free from that! is just great!  Almost like putting your finger on it and getting an "includes".  I am really loving this wiki....--RaboKarbakian (talk) 12:58, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Linking to Wikidata
As long as you add the Author page to Wikidata, you do not need to add a link here. The fact that it's linked at Wikidata will automatically be found up by the local page. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:06, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

E.g.: If you look at what I removed here, then visit that Author page, you'll see that none of that was necessary to have, and is supported entirely at Wikidata for us. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:07, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Addendum: Also, we list works by an author first on their page, and then works about that author or their works. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:12, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Prioitizing. Good help, Thanks. I had wanted to separate articles from books, using the latexish definition of the two.  I wonder if there is a way to deliver number of chapters to the link?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:26, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * We don't usually subdivide "Works" unless there are a lot of them. If there are fewer than six works, there is no real reason to add extra section headers. But, we always distinguish between works by an author and works about an author and their works. We never mix those two groups in the same section, even if there is only one of each. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:59, 8 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Help:Author pages is our guide here. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:03, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Author:Florence Augusta Merriam Bailey
When listing an author's works on the Author page, we don't list the author in the citation. The author's identity is implicit in that the work is listed on that author page, so giving the author's name is a redundancy. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:25, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I was using the page while refining the template.  Refining the template in this case means learning how to "if then" with that syntax so that the authors name does not need to be included. --RaboKarbakian (talk) 22:28, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Birds as weed destroyers
The copy you have uploaded was published in 1899 in the journal Science. Publication information is always for the copy we have here, and not for any other copy. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:26, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The Hathi reprint does indeed look far superior, especially since it includes the plates. I would recommend using the Hathi copy. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:07, 12 May 2018 (UTC)


 * You'll find two things are usually true on Wikisource: (1) a broad search before you start on a work can often pay off with a much better copy, and (2) nothing is ever as quick as you think it will be. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:08, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Template:Internet Archive link is not for author or portal namespaces
Hi. Template:Internet Archive link is for use in the Talk: and File: namespaces as it categorises works.

For author and portal namespaces, we instead use ext scan link to link through, especially as this chains for multi-volume works. Thanks. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:51, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Pity that the two letter template goes to autofill on the index pages.... --RaboKarbakian (talk) 03:53, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Not really, they provide different tasks. Also, with ext scan link we collect all works that have scans from a multitude of sites, which is not the case with "IA"; further if we have volumes at different sites, we collect under the one framework. — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:43, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Again, thanks! For fixing what I had done.... The pity is for the ease of use.  I tried 'tia' first.  Eventually I stopped because it looked so ugly.  Bibliographies in old books are pretty cool, eh? --RaboKarbakian (talk) 13:38, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
 * To help you out (hopefully), if you turn on your gadget for CharInsert, you will find that I have added ext scan link under the user dropdown. So you can just click it to get the text inserted. Plenty of other useful additions there too. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:49, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Image widths
I usually limit my image widths to no more than 420px. Much larger than that and the right half of the image will be lost on mobile devices and some monitors, so I will sometimes go with 360px, if I can. Not everyone has a widescreen monitor. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:55, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. I randomly chose 620px, but my formula (from the original page sizes) width/ppi*96 screen ppi has this field guide at 640px(ish).  I'm going to fix it tomorrow or monday.  Frogs tomorrow.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 03:02, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Hardly the most interesting subject... but...
Index:Coloured Figures of English Fungi or Mushrooms.djvu

Also if this gets your interest try and see if any out of copyright works using Bertrix Potter's Mycological recordings are available yet. :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:42, 18 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Its crack. I can't even look at those until I do some more work on Curtis.  The Wayside book has the appeal of having images of our common weeds in which were one way or another imported from that one comparatively little island.


 * The printing of the Brits is already enough crack, btw.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 17:33, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Not text indent, and div/span templates
Hi. Please don't use Template:Text-indent in general use, see the style guide for how we generally ignore paragraph indentation.

Also, we have div (block) and span (inline) templates, we cannot wrap inline templates around block templates as it breaks html formatting. If you are sizing a block of text, then we would recommend smaller block rather than smaller. It is a tricky beast at times, and blame the devils that created html nesting. :-) — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:00, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Our block templates usually have a start  and end   variation which allow us to continue over pages. We will stick the first /s in the body and pair it with an /e in the footer, and then on the next page do the /s in the header, and then the /e in the body. — billinghurst  sDrewth  07:53, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * eek!! Good to know. --20:17, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * With nop the accepted practice is to put it at the tail end of a page, rather than to lead a page, we had a loooong conversation about that years ago. To help to do that when you get to the next page, we have a gadget that puts a link in LH toolbar to do that. — billinghurst  sDrewth  07:22, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Truly, I have been putting them everywhere.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 20:17, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Fractions. If there is the unicode for a fraction, it is preferable that we use them, rather than create a representation. Noting that the representations are not searchable, whereas the unicode are. There is an available list of fractions on the drop down character menu "maths & logic" tab. — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:21, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * frac appeals so much to my humble LaTeX beginnings AND the way that using that makes all of the fractions be uniform in presentation. It will be difficult to get over it, but I will work at it.  Also, I try to think of a reason/situation to search a whole document for a fraction; I find for reasons to search for what the fraction is measuring--The mathematicians that I have known and been graded by were about those numbers but the physicists wanted units (the item being measured) and the latter makes sense to me.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 20:17, 20 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Good thing I have you&hellip;!--RaboKarbakian (talk) 20:17, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Sections
We would only utilise a  where we were looking to transclude a part of a page. [Section is a tag from "labeled section transclusion"). If we are going to pull the whole page of text, it is redundant, as we would not use a "to|fromsection=" component in.

Note that the Wikisource:style guide asks for us use to straight quotes. — billinghurst  sDrewth  04:28, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * PLEASE FOLLOW THE STYLES. They have been demonstrated to you, yet there seems to be an inner stubbornness to an individuality. There are clear reasons why we have abandoned the formatting that you are attempting. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:41, 30 June 2018 (UTC)


 * It is not so much an inner stubborness as it is a familiarity with the (gnu) culture--but I only guess at this as you have not shown the problem I am apparently creating.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 01:46, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Why is it that I need to demonstrate to you that the styel guide is wrong? Why do I need to push that the document developed over years of our experience and learnings to be blithely ignored as you have different ideas? Mate, give me strength. — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:01, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I could use some help, as long as I have your attention, Suggestive programs for special day exercises/Labor Day/The Moral Dignity of Labor -- I can't get the paragraph between the pages to join. Probably it is because I am just not good at wiki.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 01:49, 30 June 2018 (UTC) (
 * There was out-of-date syntax on the Mainspace page, but more importantly, there was a template on the second page interfering with the formatting. I removed it. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:10, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Suggestive_programs_for_special_day_exercises/Labor_Day/The_Moral_Dignity_of_Labor&curid=2511601&diff=7530703&oldid=7530662 <-- Is that what billinghurst is talking about? I got to the wikimedia page from the Help pages here about how to transclude pages. I have been enjoying that.  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Labeled_Section_Transclusion
 * There's a simpler local guide at Help:Transclusion. When in need, search for WS:Thing or Help:Thing to find information. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:19, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It has been deprecated for all of 5 months! https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3ATransclusion&type=revision&diff=6142877&oldid=5709933 And it became deprecated after I bookmarked that link to wikimedia. Deprecation, from where I have been lasts years, almost decades. Stability is the goal there, though. I will change the syntax and expand my pages knowledge.  Software Stability is something to maybe to consider? I truly do not want to upset people or ways here.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 02:27, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * No, It's been over two years. 2016 was two years ago. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:29, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Why are the pages going backwards in your presentation. That is not representing the work as published. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:59, 30 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I using the program as a menu. In my minds-eye, I see this book(let) as being published both as sections with navigation following the program (at the beginning of each section) and the whole book also, with all of its pages and sections intact the way it was published (Suggestive programs for special day exercises/book.  See Suggestive programs for special day exercises/Labor Day or Suggestive programs for special day exercises/Memorial Day. I have yet to enjoy the magic that happens when the djvu page links do their thing....--RaboKarbakian (talk) 02:12, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * We are reproducing the book, not reinterpretting it nor individually creatively representing the day based on the book and the program.
 * We have also gotten local positive notice from a goldstar mother, whose opinion I truly value, for the memorial day section as it is and to have the whole book running on my ereader would be just the thing! Is there a problem with what I envisioned? The using of the software to make text available in different formats and for different gizzmos?  Reading online is much easier in sections and to me, following the program shows their intent not so much their space restrictions.  The book was cobbled together.  Evidence of that can be seen by the residual page numbers on some of the individual parts.  Several of the poets are represented here in all manner of ways, cannot the teachers also have some leeway?


 * We should really like using software to its fullest when it has a useful application.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 02:55, 30 June 2018 (UTC)


 * djvu page link is all work and little benefit. It has no value in the main ns. — billinghurst  sDrewth  02:46, 30 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Something I read in the Help made me think that using this would help in moving the pages into one big all inclusive book. I liked thinking that way. --RaboKarbakian (talk) 02:55, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Has someone put their pipedream into a Help page? :-(


 * use of width. Because of small screen presentation, we prefer to use  rather than  . I didn't change the as I didn't have visual when using AWB to capture and regex the existing code. — billinghurst  sDrewth  07:27, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Michigan Department of Education
For organizations that publish works, and are not actually authors, we use the Portal namespace. So Portal:Michigan Department of Education. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:40, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Poems that every child should know
Hello. You are making changes to pages in Poems that every child should know (such as curly quotes) that I don't plan on implementing as I finish proofreading this work. I would like formatting to be consistent throughout the whole work. Also, you placed license info, &c. on at least one Mainspace sub-page. Licensing info need only be present on the Title page of a work. Londonjackbooks (talk) 05:13, 11 September 2018 (UTC)


 * On the first thing, I had one of my pages validated with a &emdash changed to the character; so having read at the style guide that both were allowed, I did this to your pages, as I validated it -- to see if it was a thing or not.


 * On the second part, the license, etc. EPetey told me to do that to main space pages; I suspect there is some interest in getting the licensing stuff working and I thought that the PD/YYYY thing that shows when works are released was kind of cool.  I can quit pasting that stuff, though.


 * For my purposes, I was trying to do the Longfellow and any others that I had encountered elsewhere and remember.


 * So, sorry and good morning.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 13:02, 11 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure meant licencing on the base mainspace page for a work. And with regard to curly quotes, our Style Guide states: "Use typewriter quotation marks (straight, not curly)". Even if curly quotes were encouraged, consistency within a work should be a primary consideration. Thanks :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:35, 11 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Two and a half years is a long while in wiki years, especially for an active nick.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 15:18, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The work is still on my to-do list. It's all perspective. To me, four wiki years is as a month... But also from my perspective, I am in it for the long haul—almost 10 years now. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:47, 11 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Those page to scan links are nice from the index page, I will finish them. I will just make the text links to the Longfellow and I am glad not to need to link the whole thing. I am dropping 'The ' and punctuation from the title links. There was a really long one that I would have truncated. Maybe you should edit the page of link titles so I know?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 15:55, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Not sure exactly what you are requesting... Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:11, 11 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Page:Poems that every child should know (ed. Burt, 1904).djvu/26 <--I made the Main space/Title links|Original title. None of the pages exist yet, so if you edit what I did, I will know how you want it done.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 16:17, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Just following how previous/existing formatting has been done is fine. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:25, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Rapid validation
There is no way you validated every note and word in that setting in under 3 minutes. It took me 50 minutes to typeset it and I'm highly skilled in Lilypond. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:45, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You are right. I used the validating wrongly to express my personal happiness.  I did spot check some of the notes,  after having read that the notation needs a minimum of three directions (stem, etc.).  I don't want to unvalidate it, because I am still so happy, but I will if it is important to you....--RaboKarbakian (talk) 04:51, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


 * It's not about what I want, it's about the standards of this community. When you validate a page you are guaranteeing that you have checked everything and it is in the best condition that you can make it. If our validators can't do that, then our readers won't have confidence in the reliability of any of our content—and they will go elsewhere. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:03, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Beeswaxcandle is right&hellip; at the very same time as he is not. Nearly every time an accusation of &ldquo;speed-validation&rdquo; is made at WikiSource &mdash; a potential good contributor is disheartened, sometimes to the point of giving up entirely &mdash; whilst the &ldquo;bad agent&rdquo;s simply don't care either way. It is a rite of passage &mdash; simply that &mdash; around here and I hope you don't take it at all seriously. Nobody else (and I especially include the accusers!) does. 114.74.56.136 06:34, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Every note seemed perfect, even on a third review. And while I find all midi to be an endurance test, this one sounded like the old book said it should.  Maybe everyone would be happier if I un-validate it and then re-validate it (yes, still happily) in a couple of days?


 * Btw, does it make a difference if the arc connecting two notes is convex or concave? o/~⏜o/~ or o/~⏝o/~?RaboKarbakian (talk) 07:31, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Unvalidating the page will prevent you from re-validating it because of the way our system works. Any editor who sets a page to Proofread status can't then set it to Validated status. If, now that you've checked it carefully, there are no changes needed, then leave it at Validated. I hear you on the midi. I try to avoid playing with it much at all. If the tempo I set is wrong, please adjust it in the \midi block at the end of the score. A higher number will mean a faster speed. With respect to the slurs, the direction is not important unless it is obscuring notes. However, I don't recall there being any in this particular song. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 10:24, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


 * "Speedy validation" strikes at the heart of what we do here. What about it is to be taken lightly when the standard and aim is to produce faithful, reliable transcriptions of texts? That is an expectation, not a rite of passage. Potential carelessness is a legitimate concern. A "potential good contributor" won't be dissuaded by apt criticism or questioning on that point. And the happiness bit (that is, where placation is concerned) is just silly. Londonjackbooks (talk) 09:12, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


 * My intention in raising the matter with RK was not to accuse them of negligence in validating properly, but rather to point out that checking scores requires more work than a simple running of the eye across an image—which is all that's required for most image pages. The image work that they have been doing on another work has demonstrated considerable attention to detail, so I know that they care about getting the details right. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 10:24, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Understood. My reply was directed primarily toward the IP contributor's comments. Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:53, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The "IP" replies to Londonjackbooks: the speed of the validation is not the issue, just so long as quality of the verification is maintained. Equally that expectation is not the rite of passage but the occasional inappropriate accusation that one has indulged in "speed validation" is. My point is exactly the opposite of LJB's interpretation: she claims good validators are not discouraged by criticism and maybe she is sometimes right; I hold that bad validators will ignore being told to take more care. It is a careful balance and prone to resulting in an adverse outcome. It is easy for experienced users to forget often the "rules" they hold so dear have not been written down so clearly as to be both simple and unambiguous to a newcomer. My sincere apologies to RaboKarbakian for temporarily hijacking your discussion! 114.74.56.136 03:32, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes. I was going to also comment on "bad validators" (would have used "potential bad contributors" though) as well, but I was already bordering on getting too philosophical on the matter. Accusations/inquiries made in good faith aren't necessarily inappropriate. You don't know a thing unless you ask. Londonjackbooks (talk) 05:48, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, gosh. I have enjoyed this.  Apology is not accepted as it is not needed!--RaboKarbakian (talk) 03:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I am so glad you were not offended. Now let us both look forward to the future day when you &ldquo; validate &rdquo; an absolutely appallingly badly &ldquo; proofread &rdquo; page &mdash; and find yourself holding back from writing a stiff note to the original &lsquo;proofer&rsquo; to let them know that they seemed to have indulged in &ldquo;speed-proofing&rdquo; a page; and you just don't feel their apparent effort was quite good enough&hellip; Don't laugh! That day will come a lot sooner than you think it might&hellip; 114.74.56.136 04:36, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Ha! I was trying to determine who RK is...! BWC and LJB are more than likely to be their own best critics as RK probably is. I keep going back to a thing my high school band used to participate in called "Solo-Ensemble". Different from team sports, I guess, looking at the definitions of the two words which together is an oxymoron.

Maybe it is best for me and my "happy green button" problem, if BWC ping me and tell me how long I should compare the two pictures, which, is all I can do reliably. Or, I can start using the Thank thing (and stop considering it to be "cheap") instead and leave the green buttons alone.

But truly, I think that if BWC has pressed the yellow button of completion, probably the green button of validation is just for show (if not a way for me to express my happiness).

I was happy in other solo-ensembles, even if the individual minutes (or hours) were not so great.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:00, 1 December 2018 (UTC)


 * If it helps, I made the same goof (I'm so happy so validate...) because the text so pleased me. But we don't want to accidentally cover up any mistakes in the text by mistakes in our procedures. I try to be much more careful now. Shenme (talk) 01:29, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Not needing "help" so much. Years of experience in suppressing unhappiness just simply has not prepared me for this.  If it is another 15 years before I have a happiness that needs to be surpress, perhaps I will find you for that help....--RaboKarbakian (talk) 03:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Score rendering
The even numbers may be line-break measure numbers, which would be added by LilyPond when the code is compiled. The explanation on Wikisource is very bad, and I generally use the explanation on Wikipedia and validated examples on Wikisource, such as the first page of The Star-Spangled Banner from The National Anthems of the Allies (here). If you have any questions, I am well-versed in LilyPond, and may be able to answer them. Yours Truly, TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 18:21, 3 December 2018 (UTC).
 * Reading music is a skill I do not have and the scores I am working on seem to be very much more complex than the scores I used on my 'flutaphone' way back in the seventies.... I have also a long history of being a software snob, sometimes out of boredom, sometimes out of necessity, occasionally for weird personal reasons and/or that I can not often remember or express in a way that can be easily understood -- but, unfortunately, guile is on that list of softwares I try to avoid, which, if I remember correctly, lilypond is mostly made of.


 * I would happily trade image work, for which I believe I am very competent with and my software recently has also matured (in more than in appearance, portability or scripts (good and bad)). That software is one of the reasons I avoid using guile, btw.


 * There are a lot more unscored score pages here than I originally thought. I have been wondering if collecting the pages for the scores of the same song would be helpful?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:37, 3 December 2018 (UTC)


 * I’d work on some scores from the songs book if you’d be willing to create the images for these two indexes: 1 and 2. I’ve already proofread the text from both of them, but I’m bad at using image software. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 18:54, 3 December 2018 (UTC).
 * I was unaware of those Unicode points; if you believe them preferable to images, as I do so believe, you made add them in the stead of those images. For the title image (here, from here), should be represented as is such a title image on this page. I know how to format such an image. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 22:00, 4 December 2018 (UTC).
 * Great! I uploaded the "border" and put it in place there.  The width should be its equivalent for 72 pixels per inch, assuming a 300ppi scan.  Divide that by 16 if you prefer em.


 * I liked the unicode bits. For me, they have their origins from Davy's Dingbats, before that I do not know but they are as old friends to me.  Maybe they have an entity code that can be used to make a template here.  I will determine their size for 300 to 72 ppi scaling unless you prefer a different scale.  And all the same with the 1916 play book...


 * This as well; are there any songs that you wish me to complete first? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 22:59, 4 December 2018 (UTC).
 * I have been wondering about a song called Katydid here. Maybe it is kind of blah as all the notes are about the same Page:The Riverside song book.djvu/130 but mostly, whatever you would like.  I am enjoying the image work, so for this trade, only what you would enjoy.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 00:16, 5 December 2018 (UTC)


 * I’ve completed the “Katydid” pages; would you mind uploading an image for this page? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 13:39, 5 December 2018 (UTC).
 * It should show up as File:Ballads of a Bohemian-0006.png after the name change.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 16:25, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I did complain about the midi, but that does not mean that I did not appreciate it.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 14:57, 5 December 2018 (UTC)


 * I’ve proofread some Aviation Accident Reports, and would like for you to work on those files as well; if there are any songs or pieces that you would like me to work on, as I’ve said, you need only ask. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:30, 5 December 2018 (UTC).
 * This as well, if you’d like some more work; I’ll work on this in the mean-while. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 00:07, 6 December 2018 (UTC).
 * I have no preferences for which of the tunes or how many you like to work on. I must say, your choices are kind of fun.  I looked in the needs image directory for Aviation Accident Reports and didn't find any "Aviation" there.  So, to re-iterate, whatever and how much ever you would like to score in that book is just great!  I'll get to your golden critter very soon.  Thanks for everything. --RaboKarbakian (talk) 00:27, 6 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Images from the following: 1, 2, and 3. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:41, 6 December 2018 (UTC).
 * From here, as well. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 19:15, 7 December 2018 (UTC).
 * So, that takes me back to where I was a couple of summers ago with the Distributed Proofreaders. I was trying to write a script that would (with properly placed guides) cut an generate the appropriate mark-up.  My life got worse and worse from there -- it was already spirally downward very quickly.  In particular, images with black and white photographs are easily managed with a script.  It is a discussion I had via email, emails that apparently everyone locally has read and made huge judgements upon and probably the email was to and from a bogus name at the Distributed Proofreaders.


 * I am not certain that I want to continue this trade especially with the extremely slow change in my situation. With all due respect to gamers past and present, and I mean that in my own way, as some of my happiest time was spent with slowly maturing gamers.  I am unhappy when the games spill into what should be the actual past.


 * So, if you have something else or allow me to get back to it, gladly get back to it even, when my real life shows more improvement....--RaboKarbakian (talk) 19:33, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


 * How about this? I’ll proofread the text soon. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 20:10, 7 December 2018 (UTC).
 * I have already been working on this. I have a script that I put the text into and it spits out the image and the formated text, so, if you want to wait and check my upload, that should go fairly quickly on my part, once I get started. It would be nice to be on my computer alone, though.  --RaboKarbakian (talk) 20:16, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


 * I’m sorry, once again; I had just found the work, and was unaware that it was you who had begun the work. I’ve also remembered this, which has some images, that I worked on a long time ago. I’ve started another song from the book, but if there any that you’d like to be created in particular, feel free to ask. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 23:11, 7 December 2018 (UTC).


 * The Gordon books, I really like. I can just work on the images and you can do whatever you wish with the text(s).  Birds and Vegetables.


 * Wow! REALLY BAD DOWNLOAD!  32MB in seconds!!  Beware of Daphnaïda!!!--RaboKarbakian (talk) 23:56, 7 December 2018 (UTC)  And something swallows my "Recent" in the filechooser.


 * I’ll proofread those two books, if you wouldn’t mind; there’s also the image from this page, as I’ve now finished the book. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 00:32, 8 December 2018 (UTC).
 * The remaining images from here and here, and that from here (wonky download problems, lost my "Recent" in the filechooser)RK. I will continue with this, unless you’d prefer other-wise. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 18:38, 10 December 2018 (UTC).
 * I forgot to do two of the Eskimo images, what a funny book that must be! They should be arriving shortly.
 * I will probably do the "battle for Open" images, but truly, &lt;rant&gt;there are some catchall phrases that get thrown around and used that lack good definition. "Open" is one of them.  The other one, recently re-surfaced in my self-limited view "FOSS" which I believe expands into Free Open Source Something-or-other, but am uncertain of that.  GNU has a licence and a coding style (which boils down to "don't use &amp;#11134; (horizontal tab spaces)"  which is really great advice for avoiding style arguments.&lt;/rant&gt;  The only thing I have experienced that is worse than the undefined "opensource" is that incredibly un-researched advertisement by IBM, "Linux, child of the world".  (Windows, circa 1995, Linux, circa 1992 based on unix from the 1950s -- running mainframes at universities and in industry.)  Advert probably by some well-meaning dingdong who thought Windows was the only thing....--RaboKarbakian (talk) 02:54, 11 December 2018 (UTC) (in all fairness, msdos pre-dates linux probably most at being the child of the world though....)


 * If you were interested, and haven’t already read, the book discusses specifically debate over “open” education and “open”-publication research. On a less general note, the images from here, which are numerous, would be much appreciated, is they may easily be removed from the .pdf on Wikisource. I’ll work here next. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 00:47, 12 December 2018 (UTC).
 * I’ve completed two more songs; would you mind creating the images from here and here? They were both former WS:PotM texts which have been fully validated, excepting their images. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:00, 13 December 2018 (UTC).
 * The Sikh's takes advantage of my skill set, but the other one, I'm going to be looking around for another copy of that, as the first image I looked at was some organized dots on a page that barely made it to the scanner on time.... Thanks for your work, btw.  Someone else did the graphs for the Open Publishing pdf.


 * Not too long ago, I was interested in making html5 web pages of pages turning while the book was being read. Seems to be more interest in "rules" and "breaking into the computers of others" than some seriously evolved hacking.  Today's thought.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 01:20, 13 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The images from here, as well. I also created the sheet music here. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 22:25, 13 December 2018 (UTC).


 * Hiprah Hunt is going to be too boring for me, I think. They just need cropping and some rotating. I saw the score at the Chickens.  Akme said "You're Welcome" to me on the commons, but I did not thank for anything.  And you should get a thank you but all there is is a "You're welcome".  https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Akme&curid=40952860&diff=331112038&oldid=331086257 --RaboKarbakian (talk) 00:13, 14 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Would you mind creating the images from here? TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:31, 17 December 2018 (UTC).
 * From here, if you wouldn’t mind. It was copyrighted in 1919 by the David C. Cook Publishing Company. I wish you to remove all text excepting the title, which is stylised, and shown at the top. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 01:14, 18 December 2018 (UTC).


 * How about after it is uploaded and such?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 03:28, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Find the love
Don't give up on wikimedia. Prompt discussions, reiterate ignored points, win with academic memes and ethical depth, give others fair opportunity to respond at their leisure, don't let others edit against you without participating in your discussions, whoever stops discussing has stopped participating so edits thereafter don't contribute rather disrupt, but most of all don't forget to love ;) 2600:1700:8680:E900:45BE:5CE:7151:FE6A 18:20, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

It is the only reason I keep working on things here. That and the fact that this stuff is so cool. Thanks for asking a good question!! --RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:25, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

If you ever would like help on any project or merely to converse or merely to discuss, ping User:Eaterjolly. I've gotten to IP-editing lately, since I started appealing an IP block on main wikipedia which I'd rather not login thusly provoking anyone to taint my account with a block. (very silly block involving supposedly disruptively editing a banner on a talk page by removing. *sighes*) 2605:A000:1238:A03F:F4E7:1B24:D13C:D526 08:59, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

If I don't get back to it soon...
You could copy Page_talk:The_Riverside_song_book.djvu/29 to the page space, as a start on a good copy. Check the text of the talk page for notes on all the bits not yet done. Also, since I'm not as familiar with the Lilypond syntax, this score text might be a bit more readable than some others? ;-P Shenme (talk) 07:00, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Manual of Style
Use typewriter quotation marks (straight, not curly) --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:38, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * The fact that the curly quotes are available in the character radio menu "Insert" (available to all who edit, regardless of what gadgets are not used) makes that Manual of Style dictate very confusing.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 04:43, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Use typewriter quotation marks (straight, not curly). That's not confusing at all. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:44, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * "Eat at McDonalds" even if we have baked potatoes and pot roast available right here?--RaboKarbakian (talk) 04:46, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Use typewriter quotation marks (straight, not curly). What and where you choose to eat is not at issue. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:48, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * It is an metaphor. Might I edit the style guide to encourage the use of xml-entities whenever possible?  It makes more sense than the boisterous demand to use straight quotes as many of the entities have been available and in use since way before 2000.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 04:52, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


 * No. The community decision has been for exactly the opposite. We regularly use bots to replace xml-entities. Use typewriter quotation marks (straight, not curly). This is not hard to understand at all. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:57, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Use typewriter quotation marks (straight, not curly). Repeated refusals to follow community norm may result in a block. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:10, 23 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Okay, fine. I thought you were guiding me away from the one version and to the other with the beautiful illustrations.  I thought this because you were so intelligent and capable when I first got here.  Lately, you seem more likely to read "guides" here and the tool-tips at wd.


 * Concurrently, the "locals" seem to be trying to "steal" my dumb tool for pulling "follows" and "followed by" from wikidata, which seems sad to me as all they are going to actually "know" is how to invade vulnerable computers. The thingie at the header template is only a little broken if you actually have just a bit of knowledge.


 * That I saw curly quotes today in the recent changes that were not mine. Concurrent is concurrent.  Knowledge is something gained.  I once had a rechargable drill stolen from me, only without the charger.  That was kind of dumb also, but that was a child, actual 10 years of age or less.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 02:25, 23 December 2018 (UTC)


 * To show my shock and ignorance, I had to go look up norm, as I'd thought it meant "the usual thing done." But no, it includes "2. A rule that is enforced by members of a community."
 * As you'll remember I had no problem with proceeding with curlies in Tales of the White Hills, even fixing a use of adq. After peeking at previous discussions elsewhere I'm astonished that curlies are found to be technically difficult ... But then I remember how many things are commonplace now, but not even possible five years ago. We'll all laugh at now, later, yes?
 * Anyway, there's Perfect is the enemy of good as a guide, even if it grates for me personally. There's more good to be done even given restrictions. Shenme (talk) 06:46, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Here is the sorrowful conclusion I came to some time ago: the &ldquo;no curly quote&rdquo; rule came into play as a result of the occasional &lsquo;lazy&rsquo; or maybe even incompetent(?) user who cannot figure out how to maintain consistency with others. The "easy" way of dealing with inconsistencies is to mindlessly perform a rigid string-replacement across entire swathes of work. Because &ldquo;our&rdquo; local programming element is not very clever, the simplest answer is not to have to figure out whether a given quote-mark is correctly positioned&hellip;&thinsp;so as a result &lsquo;straight quotes&rsquo; are the go-to choice of the not&minus;very&minus;smart amongst us&hellip;&mdash;sarcasm entirely intentional&hellip;114.74.46.230 07:45, 23 December 2018 (UTC)


 * If I were participating in the POTM or another group effort, I would be using the group style. I have done all of the work, so far, on the books in question.  Some have images which I took extra time and care and previously learned skill at preparing.


 * User:114.74.46.230 Something like "The Lord of the Flies" mashed with "Davita's Harp"? (a very well written story about a child who was denied their rightful standing due to old-fashioned, in the 1940s, tradition.)--RaboKarbakian (talk) 19:36, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

html5
Look at what the wiki can do, using only .--RaboKarbakian (talk) 20:29, 23 December 2018 (UTC)