User talk:JustinCB

Welcome yee to Wikisource
Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:55, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you(the title is mine for finding on mobile) JustinCB (talk) 12:29, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Recent Edits to the Bible Translation
Hey, welcome to the Bible translation project. The project is basically starved for editors at the moment, so it's encouraging to see a new one show up. When you add new text or make an edit that changes wording in any significant way, could you leave an edit summary? That'll make things a bit easier for other editors to follow.

Another question -- I noticed that you're working from the Clementine Vulgate. In cases where place-names as spelled in the Vulgate differ from the spelling that is usually used in modern Bible translations, do you have any objection if I replace the Vulgate-specific name with the common modern equivalent -- (Ai instead of Hay, Ebal instead of Hebal, etc.)?

Feel free to drop a line on my talk page if you have any questions or comments. Alephb (talk) 03:22, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Wikibreak
Hey,

Since we've been working together quite a bit, I thought I let you know, so you aren't left wondering, that I'm going to be taking a bit of a break from Wiki editing. I've got some things that are demanding a bit more of my time out in the real world. Alephb (talk) 06:02, 26 November 2017 (UTC)


 * OK, let me know when(if) you decide to come back from your wikibreak. I don't want to be nosy(and you don't need to answer or be specific), but what is it that is causing you to take the wikibreak?  JustinCB (talk) 15:58, 26 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Nothing to do with Wikisource/Wikipedia. Off in personal life I've got some new work responsibilities and family responsibilities that have hit simultaneously, and I'd like to get some of those things under control before coming back. Basically, I've got some aging grandparents that are going to require a bit more of my time, and a new job where I'm in the early learning stages, and a move to a new place that starts this weekend. I'm trying to establish a new set of daily/weekly routines (I'm one of those people that is best at consistently doing things if I make them a habit and can more or less do them on autopilot), and once I feel I've got my feet on more solid footing, I should be ready to get back to this stuff, probably on a somewhat more scheduled sort of a basis, maybe less so than now but still at least weekly. Most Wikipedians have been a pleasure to work with, and you are definitely included there. I continue to think the Wikipedia/Wikisource etc. set of projects is one of the most interesting things out there, and well worth a reasonable amount of my time.


 * I've set up email alerts so that I can respond to anything directly posted on my talk page, and I'm not saying I'll be 100% away over the coming few days / weeks / hopefully not as long as a couple months, but if I'll probably not be responding to much on the pages I usually frequent. Alephb (talk) 02:23, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * PS. In the meantime I'll still make sure to add at least a verse of text every two weeks, so as not to let my membership on the Wikisource Bible Project. By the way, have you considered adding your name to the list of contributors here: ? Given the amount you've done here, it seems a bit odd for me to be the only listed member of the project. Putting your name on the list wouldn't amount to any specific commitment -- it just means you've been working on the project, and any of us will automatically go "inactive" if we just don't make an edit to any of the project pages for a month. If you don't want your name on the list, that's fine too. Just wanted to make sure you knew it existed. Alephb (talk) 02:27, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Hey Justin, I'm back. At present, I think my editing will be restriction to a very brief check-in some mornings, and then maybe to a slot of an hour or two at most in the evenings. I'll try to contribute something at least a couple times a week, as life allows. Alephb (talk) 01:31, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, is there something that you want to work on(perhaps continue with 2 Kings)? JustinCB (talk) 15:51, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Continuing with 2 Kings is the plan, then Chronicles, and then through the various books that have a lot of poetic content. I've put off the poetry, which is harder to translate. Alephb (talk) 17:47, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I meant 2 SAMUEL, not 2 Kings(again, the strong venjaunce of Latin). JustinCB (talk) 18:54, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * And I meant 1 Kings, not 2 Kings. We are a disaster. Alephb (talk) 23:45, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I thought you were working on 2 Samuel(I haven't been working on it since I did chapters 2,3,12, and 21).
 * Ah, I'd skipped ahead to stay out of your way earlier, but if you're done with it for now, I'll go back to 2 Samuel. Alephb (talk) 12:02, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I've been mainly working on incomplete chapters not claimed by you and chapters contiguous with them not in chunks(they look done in the Table of Contents and on mobile). I've done a little work on the vulgate prologue(the Latin is more complex then anywhere else in the vulgate that I've before done[it's as the mideval belief that translations from french have french eloquence: translations from hebrew have the less gramatical complexity of hebrew]).  JustinCB (talk) 12:18, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The Hebrew syntax is interesting. It's fully capable of complex sentences with big subordinate clauses -- they show up in some legal legislation, for example. But in narrative sections -- most of the Bible -- there's this style that goes, "And this happened, and that happened, and this happened, and that happened, and so on . . ." I kind of like it; it looks to me like an integral part of how storytelling was done in ancient Hebrew literature. But I'd bet dollars to donuts that sooner or later some editor will come along and complexify the syntax. I'll probably just put up a really mild protest and let them do it. Alephb (talk) 12:43, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hebrew(indeed, most languages) are capable of long sentences, but the Latins seem to try to use all of the cases in pretty much every sentence(unlike Hebrew and English, that don't hardly have cases at all). As for that kind of storytelling, I my self like to tell storys that way(&amp; pretty much every story is told like that).  JustinCB (talk) 15:46, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Some guidance
The community looks to have missed given some guidance to align to the style guide, and to make things easier to edit. It is a truly guiding document and it is necessary reading to what we find important.

Some key things to note.
 * Relative links— please use relative links in headers, so if pages are moved they don't need to be individually corrected
 * no requirement to place in all the html code, in fact there is a preference to minimise code, and instead to use the templates that we have developed over the years to make things easier. So no need to do  simple putting in a double return will have the system do that. Use of center for centered text.  See Help:templates for a fuller list.

One of the true advantages of templated code is that we are able to update code more easily as html and css advances and as the mediawiki software requires. Similarly we are more likely to avoid coding errors and omissions. Noting that code such as &lt;center> is now deprecated, and we do like to avoid adding more cases of it.

Many of these things will be covered in the above links, however, please do refer to the community if you are unsure. The community is always there to answer questions at WS:Scriptorium or WS:Scriptorium/Help. Anyway, I will be/have updated some of recent additions. — billinghurst  sDrewth  22:44, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I was manually(and with find/replace) "converting" a HTML document of the entire Wycliffe bible into wikisource formatting, and in this doing I didn't bother to convert some formatting that worked for both.  JustinCB (talk) 23:02, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You have upper and lower case thorn issues Bible (Early Wycliffe) in the page names. You will need to work out whether the pages need to be moved, or whether it is a simple ToC fix — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:34, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Edition issues. We work on editions, and this Toc component  says that this is not the 1380s edition. So that means that we need to add "editor" detail to the front page, and update the year to the year of this edition. — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:37, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Can you please add the source and edition data that you have to Talk:Bible (Early Wycliffe). As hinted above, edition and provenance data is vital to Wikisource so that any errors and proofreading can take place as required. This is predominantly why we use scans rather than just take other people's work. — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:39, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

By the way, I've added the information. The majority of the editing was done by me. Does that mean I have to release my edits or something? JustinCB (talk) 23:59, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

By the way, your edits caused the "thorn issues"(see your talk page). JustinCB (talk) 00:20, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

I fixed the capitalisation by replacing the thorns that should be lowercase with the lowercase thorn entity. JustinCB (talk) 00:54, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Unilateral Float right changes...
If you are going to make a drastic change like this :

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Float_right&diff=prev&oldid=7206626

to a widely used template, PLEASE consult first, and see where and how the template is actually used.

fr is called from inside a number of other span based templates, possibly in error.. Converting it to a DIV unilaterally causes those uses to break, and requires additional effort to repair...

A simmilar concern would apply to float-left ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:38, 21 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The same caution applies to other widely used templates such as the 1911EB fine print template. Simply switching the kind of tag does not solve the issue, but creates new problems. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)


 * You will be blocked if you do that again. You just broke the template across all of Wikisource. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:20, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

anchor versus span id
You do realize tht anchor does not do the same thing as. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:02, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Template adjustments and paragraph breaks
Some of the changes you're performing are changing paragraph breaks within the page and with the page transcluded into the main namespace, e.g. Page:On the expression of a number in the form 𝑎𝑥²+𝑏𝑦²+𝑐𝑧²+𝑑𝑢².djvu/11 or Atharva-Veda Samhita/Book XV/Paryaya 5. Could you look into that before continuing? Thanks. Prosody (talk) 01:47, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Page:Women of distinction.djvu/246
Slow down and consider that the smaller blocks for example might be part of a runs of content on other pages, whcih form part of a transclusion.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:59, 24 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I appreciate that this and others are in good faith, but would strongly suggest:
 * Don't attempt "fixes" to more pages right now.
 * Carefully review ALL your efforts in Page: namespace, carefully considering the full context of where a Page: might be used, such as in a transclusion.
 * If you find a template you think is actually broken internally or is coming up against the DIV inside a span, note it in a list in your userspace.
 * Slow down considerably! If it's taking less than 10 secs to fix pages, that's maybe going too fast. Pause between saves if needed.
 * Do any changes grouped by Index.. (I will consider raising a ticket asking for grouped or filtered Linter reports).
 * Concentrate on getting a single Index (and transclusion.) fixed before doing another one.
 * Don't worry about the backlog, we all know it exists, trying to reduce it isn't necessarily the priority, getting stable and consistent fixes that work in the context of a Page: and a tranclusion is higher than reduction of the backlog..
 * Consider creating a list of the affected Index: so that you have some idea of the works affected in their entirity not just random pages that Linter's reports generate.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:32, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

we need to look at the collection of pages of a work collectively, not in isolation. The Lint tools are not helpful to be collective, as they were not designed for our site and the inter-relatedness. I would suggest that at this stage it would be useful to look at each work, and then on the "Index talk:" page of the work look to make notes of the fix, and when fixing the things for which we need to be mindful. We don't want to have a work look like a hotchpotch if different people fix things differently; and at least if things break from the new renderer they should break uniformly. If these fixes only get done after the renderer, then while less than perfect, is still okay, and better than a messed up work. — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:13, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

A Work in Scots...
As you have some working with Scots - I thought this might appeal - Index:The Laws and Acts of Parliament of Scotland.djvu

once you've sorted out Linter concerns.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:14, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Cl-act-Paragraph...
A note.. Doing the side titles/marginal citations as sidenotes might not be appropriate for mobile... (Another complication.)

Did you get a chance to look at the Github page I linked from the Scriptorum a few days ago? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:00, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I look'd at it, but I'm not entirely convinced that it(be it never so official) is the best way to present the documents electronically. I'm using a mobile device that displays many pages incorrectly, but it displays margin notes(at the current 5em width) correctly.  The template I made to handle the layout argument(resolves it to either left or right), however, needs a minor edit to handle it being empty correctly.  JustinCB (talk) 23:37, 25 January 2018 (UTC)


 * And I fix'd it JustinCB (talk) 00:28, 26 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Something just occured to me... Can you do a test with the cl-act-paragraph as currently written, but converting P into DIV?  That might solve one of the current issues.   It won't solve the issue of side titles that need to have block based formating like P breaks though..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:54, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

The issue of whitespace interactions is going to take a while.. And we need to centralise the disscusions on this. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:54, 26 January 2018 (UTC)


 * User:JustinCB/cl-act-p is using &lt;div> now.  JustinCB (talk) 23:13, 26 January 2018 (UTC)


 * https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/User:ShakespeareFan00/Cl-act-paragraph/testcases - If you can get these working, it's time to take a break :) 23:20, 26 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Hmm.. SO I am wondering why in your version the table handling worked, and in my versions ( both of them it didn't.). Based on my own investigations it's down to whitespace handling or to the collapsing cell problem I mention elsewhere.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:36, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Given the concerns expressed elsewhere, I'd personally be inclined to abandon a complex template like this entirely. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:20, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Earlier you asked about undocumented stuff... Found something - Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 9.djvu/594 the parameter, which in this instance was being used to add a " or ' prior to the section number formating..   Either this can be added directly, or we have a disscusion about how to mark nominally quoted passages like that. (Not a current use case but should be considered, as would the need to underline the contents of a block for example).  Also again not a current use case, but it would be reasonable to consider how to mark a passage as greyed out (because it had ceased to be in force for example, based on a preference setting... hmm).. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:38, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Also the test case stopped working ... hmmm.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Also we are now back to the collapsing row situation on table one, and no wiki-table formatting on the second.. Seriously it's time to say this can't be done :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:00, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Close but a different issue on the last round, there's a need for something that isn't whitspace dependent.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:11, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * It's working! I found out, that spurious whitespace in my template caused "|-" to act like " |-", or "
 * -", which caused it to not be interpreted as wiki markup.  JustinCB (talk) 23:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Check your templates for any whitespace when handling tables. It might be extra whitespace, not missing whitespace that's causing your problems. JustinCB (talk) 23:42, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Congratulations! Now find something to ruthlessly test it against....  Margin note still uses SPAN so something I did in Railways Act 1921 was NEVER going to work long term, so I removed that code as it wasn't critical to the text's understanding anyway.  You might want to have a look as to whether you templates work with that work.. Or alternatively find a short thing to work with...


 * I'll add one more test case, because that might be what causes some issues, in page: transclusion...ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:55, 27 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Oh and don't forget to right a verbose Help: page on how to use these. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:19, 28 January 2018 (UTC)


 * See the added test cases... Getting it work with both the new instance and legacy cases will be crazy time... Let's leave till Monday Morning? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:28, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

A work on another wiki. la:Liber:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu
The English language companion being: Index:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu has a split presentation in places.

This has some very old statutes, and some portions do not seem to have been translated. Translating Mediaeval legal latin is probably a specialism though

And addding the sidenoting/ side titles is probably going to be tiresome.. ( I'd strongly suggest putting a series in a sidenote/side title on this, if the cl-act-paragraph replacement can be adapted for la.wikisource.org) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:38, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you verify that the people doing the ruffhead want that(in ref tags) &amp; not this(somewhat accurately reproducing original formatting)? JustinCB (talk) 21:34, 28 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm the sole contributor, so far, at least on the la side of things so in effect we can make a decision almost unilatteraly re the first volume. :), It gets more complex due to the dual language nature of portions of it. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:35, 28 January 2018 (UTC)


 * On other volumes ( there's 9 of them in total) there may be some other contributors... Volume 2/3 possibly..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:42, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I might be able to translate the Latin &amp; Norman/Law French, &amp; certainly any Middle/Early Modern English/Scots(if neccessary). I'm more interested in the ENGLISH version right now, what do they want, for, to copy this to Latin Wikisource, it should first be working on the English one: am I clear? JustinCB (talk) 22:04, 28 January 2018 (UTC)


 * As I said, I'm the sole contributor on this... The Latin is the original, and the English presented the (for the date) "smei-official" translation I think). Ideally both portions should be present, if this is on Wikisource.  If cl-act-paragraph's replacement can be made to work consistently with this feel free. I'm not sure if any portions of it are translcuded into main-space yet. Although some portions may have been manually transcribed. I'll have to check some VERY early contributions of mine. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:20, 28 January 2018 (UTC)


 * There are portions that are not presented with a translation, typically really archaic portions. Volume 1 is (currently) split between English/Latin and French Wikisource owing to back in 2008 or that being the consensus. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:20, 28 January 2018 (UTC)


 * If you can get the English side of things nicely formatted using your cl-act-paragraph replacement in testing, it might be useful. Quite a lot of it is essentially single paragraphs in the early chapter so essentially cl-act-paragraph/x's. I was currently using refs because of the need to smallrefs after each chapter, and because based on the respective typesetting arrangments the sidetitles as shown overun vertically the original main text.  There is nothing to stop what are essentialy notes on where something was later cited I think, being a single reference in a side title, though.  Do some testing and let me know?  I'm going to search my back contributions, to see if anything was transcluded from volume 1

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:20, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Statutes at Large
This is what I was able to uncover by examining past contributions...

The first list is some of my very very early efforts at Wikisource:
 * Volume 1 (mostly manually transcribed, and should ideally be replaced with scan backed copies, and updated annotations/headers)
 * Distress_Act_1275_(c.16)
 * Distress Act 1275 (c.17)
 * Fines on the County Act 1275
 * Crown Debts Act 1275
 * Trespassers in Parks and Ponds Act 1275
 * The Statute of the Leap Year (21 Hen3.)
 * Dies Communes de Dote (51 Hen3. Stat 3) (1266)
 * Statutm Hiberne de coheredius
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 1/The Statutes of the Exchequer (51 Hen3. Stat 4 & 5) (1266)
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 1/Judic. Pillorie (51 Hen3. Stat 6) (1266)
 * Provision for the Day in Leap Year
 * Statutes of the Exchequer
 * Judicium Pillorie

The second list is what's using transclusions from page name-space.


 * Volume 1 (from page scans) ..
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Hen3. to Hen6.
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 1/Table of the Publick and Private Statutes
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 1/Preface
 * Volume 3 and title pages..
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 3
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 4
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 5
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 6
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 7
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 8
 * Volume 9
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 9
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 9/The Editor to the Reader
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 9/List of Subscribers
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 9/Appendix (Contents)
 * Kirby, Westmorland: Small Debts Act 1764
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 9/Kirby, Westmorland: Small Debts Act 1764
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 9/Doncaster: Small Debts, Lighting, etc. Act 1763
 * Doncaster: Small Debts, Lighting, etc. Act 1763
 * Bankrupts Act 1706
 * Bankrupts_Act_1705
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 9/Additional Acts Omitted from Vol 8
 * BY another contributor *
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 2
 * The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 2/Act of Supremacy 1558

You if interested might want to look into this in more detail when you have spare time..

The next question is presumably is this at the stage given the size of a project like this asking someone (other than myself) to start a Wikiproject, and have a style guide before we continue? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:00, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Not main namespace
Think that you had some contributions that were not for main namespace ending up there. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:33, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * How am I supposed to add a css file? I'm trying to add a file that will cause an image within a frame to not be wider than the frame, but I can't figure out how to create a css file.  JustinCB (talk) 13:37, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * At this point in time you cannot add .css files. Don't get too caught up with the printed book, the typography and compository work are interesting, and not mandated by our guidance. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:40, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * That's fine. I've figured it out without doing that(it would look better with CSS, but it's fine without it).  JustinCB (talk) 16:19, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

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Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 9.djvu/585
The split=cont is supposed to in page namespace, apply the layout, Have I misunderstood something here? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:29, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think so: what problem are you having? When I look'd at the revision with my template, it seem'd fine.  JustinCB (talk) 16:49, 18 June 2018 (UTC)


 * It had odd indentation. In any case I went back to the old sidenotes approach for consistency, until something better can be developed. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:27, 18 June 2018 (UTC)


 * https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large_-_vol_9.djvu/585&oldid=7474803 The top portion should have the same right hand indentation as the paragraph below it. On my display the top (cont)inued paragraph is expanding to the full page width, did I leave a layout parameter out? hmm ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:29, 18 June 2018 (UTC)


 * It was a bug in . It's fix'd now.  Also, you should probably pick a specific layout for the transcluded page, which can be done by using rlpage or lrpage (rlpage is equivalent to right when transcluded but left in the Page namespace, and lrpage is the reverse[left when transcluded but right in the Page namespace]).  Those were documented but never implemented, &amp; the documentation didn't say what they were supposed to do, but I have xypage mean "xxxx &gt; but yyyy/ on page" JustinCB (talk) 17:52, 18 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Oh okay, I might have inadvertently reversed the meanings when testing though:( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:09, 18 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Okay. Next problem finding something comprhensive enough to test with.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:00, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Are the original templates no longer used? They seem to have been deleted.  I think at least one of my templates is a redirect...  JustinCB (talk) 18:14, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * That one isn't deleted( is a redirect to cl-act-paragraph/indexstyle).


 * The originals have been deleted, as they didn't work and were deprecated. We could test on something short like,

Index:Witness Act 1806 (ukpga 18060037).pdf or if a more extensive example was needed. Index:Life Annuities Act 1808 (ukpga1808142).pdf which I've just put on Commons for the purpose.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:35, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

tested here : Page:Witness_Act_1806_(ukpga_18060037).pdf/1 and Page:Witness Act 1806 (ukpga 18060037).pdf/2 it's back to saying it's leaking a DIV nesting somewhere (Round in [REDACTED]ing circles : (Sigh) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:45, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

And it doesn't cleanly transclude here Witnesses_Act_1806, there should be a continuous flow of the paragraphs. Sigh... which is right back to where I was a decade ago, trying to get it working. In my view a waste of time to continue, as this approach has now not worked with two people writing the templates independently. :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:48, 18 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Reverted the experiment back to a KNOWN version... Until Mediawiki has proper support for this it's NEVER going to work right. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:04, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think I fix'd it. The transcluded layout goes first, so you needed "layout=rlpage" on the second page to make it transclude properly with "layout=right" on the first page.  JustinCB (talk) 15:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks : Okay, but given the complexities of this, I'm reluctant to recomend widespread use until there's a wider test, and analysis of the testcases I placed. You might also want to check for interactions between this template set and float right di and so on, as I'd had issues with the now deleted cl-act-paragraph and those templates sometimes.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)


 * It's still leaking a DIV somewhere according to LintHint... which I cannot figure out the cause of to advise..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:27, 19 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I added some test cases here User:JustinCB/cl-act-p; The testcase with implied whitespace (in this instance a linefeed/cr) should render the same as the one without it. Also.. Page:Short Titles Act 1896(ukpga 18960014 en).pdf/1 here the titles aren't beeing passed down from a higher template, Parameter errors on my part? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:32, 19 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I have a strong suspicion about parm= constructions, not passing what's expected and the lower level template getting confused. Have a look at the sanenull template or my sandbox for a possible answer. We'll get these templates "steam-proof" some how.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Apologies for being a tedious tester, in finding concerns :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:37, 19 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Also - I'd been doing some simple-case testing here - User:ShakespeareFan00/foo/testcases to try and debug things on a different template. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I've fix'd it. It was a mistake with an if statement.  The /s /c and /e versions of the templates should work as expected when transcluded, but under the hood it'll be a bit weird because of how it has to handle not leaking &lt;div>'s(basically to get the "split=cont" to work how you expect it to, all the templates have both an opening and a closing &lt;div> on the page namespace, which means that using the /s template in the header like normal will work, but will just put &lt;div style="...">&lt;/div> which isn't particularly useful[same with the /e template]).  JustinCB (talk) 15:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I think this needs a wider disscussion... given my attempt didn't work on two attempts, I'm reluctant about recommending a replacement, Sorry but that's the way I feel...ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:08, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * You don't recommend having a template for this, or you don't recommend this specific one? JustinCB (talk) 16:09, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I am saying this needs more testing... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Page:Short Titles Act 1896(ukpga 18960014 en).pdf/2 is STILL leaking a DIV per LintHint, and thats after I made sure everything was balanced up. Even converted the table over to aligned table so I KNOW it was matched. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * What's puzzling me is that in edit, LintHint says the page contens are balanced.. when checking in non edit mode they are not.. I'll have another think about where it's leaking a DIV.. :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I definitely think there should be a template for this, and yours is going to be it, if we can iron out all the concerns, and "leaks" of things. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:20, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think I fix'd the div leaks at least, unless the final transclusion is done wrong. JustinCB (talk) 17:10, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Page:Short Titles Act 1896(ukpga 18960014 en).pdf/2 the handling for split=table, appears to be what is "leaking" a DIV. as Aligned table should not be generating DIV's at all. As I said this needs more testing to nail down the interactions, but if it's going to be this complex to debug, it's something that the core Mediwiki back end ought to have reasonable support for, so that we don't have to effectively write and debug a whole layout engine... :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:39, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I wonder if something else is generating the div. It seems like it should give the same output in edit &amp; view modes, shouldn't it?  JustinCB (talk) 18:55, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Well the Linthint tool only checks the body in edit mode, and gives no issues... so, that leaves either the header or footer generating something misplaced... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:17, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Short_Titles_Act_1896(ukpga_18960014_en).pdf/2&oldid=7507827 is clean

and
 * https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Short_Titles_Act_1896(ukpga_18960014_en).pdf/2&oldid=7507829 isn't

The only thing that's changed is the use a split=table parameter... The actual text should be blank as it's commented.. Hmmm.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:22, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay this is what I've found ....

In mainspace : -

in Page: namespace... which is clearly mismatched... Time to check the logic carefully again? This is how the previous templates were broken I think.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:28, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Something is either wrongly being generated, is being stripped out prematurely or is being 'tidied' up. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:30, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I fix'd that problem now. I think LintHint was confused because it was written for Wikipedia, not Wikisource, &amp; so doesn't handle the Page: namespace correctly.  JustinCB (talk) 19:38, 19 June 2018 (UTC)


 * And Page:Witness Act 1806 (ukpga 18060037).pdf/1 goes back to saying there's a missing DIV :( (sigh), Round in another circle...21:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * hmm

Generates (Page context:)    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. which is unblaanced...

Generates:(Main context:)    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

Sorry to be someone thats doing a VERY robust test on this... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * These were exactly the sort of issues I was getting on the previous incarnation... Time to ask someone to do it in Lua for sanity? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:24, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

For completeness: -

Generates in page context:    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

by comparison.

Generates:   Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. (and what looks like an un-needed blank title..)

But I've had enough of hunt the behaviour for a while... :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:41, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Abitary break

 * Someone should do this in Lua, so it's easier to debug. The approach is good, but it's tying down the precise behaviour and interactions. :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:41, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * That's a reasonable idea. I've started writing Module:Cl-act, but I think I'll keep some of them as templates &amp; just write a lua wrapper for those.  JustinCB (talk) 16:44, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * By the way, with "split=cont", the behaviour is to not display the side heading, and with "split=begin", the behavior is to always display a side heading, even if it's blank. JustinCB (talk) 16:46, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay... That's an understandable thing, provided it's eventually documented... Non paragrpah start side headings should be don using the /h varaint template anyway maybe.  Hmm... Title= only supported at the start would need to be in the documentation notes.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:04, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Lua Module error

 * Page:Short Titles Act 1896(ukpga 18960014 en).pdf/2 generating "Lua error in Module:Cl-act at line 21: attempt to concatenate global 'margin' (a nil value).", I don't think I've put any unusal syntax on that page. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:50, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I put the variable name on the wrong line in the Lua module. Apparently Lua won't throw an error if you're using a variable that isn't initialized, it'll just set the variable to nil, &amp; throw a nil value error.  JustinCB (talk) 15:35, 21 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Looking good now. Let's come up with some insane test cases.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:39, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, but I'm not done porting/writing wrappers. I think maybe should be equivalent to . What do you think? JustinCB (talk) 16:00, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Possibly... But don't forget about the other levels (like level 2 and 2a) If I recall 2 didn't italicise whereas 2a and 3 did. Also there was 1-2 which handled the 1.—(1) style numbering, which I haven't yet encountered on much older stuff. (Note that when I deprecated the cl-act-paragraph versions, I changed the implied anchoring so that 1. as section had 1.0 as an anchor. This was so it didn't conflict with the anchors added for page numbers. By this logic the preamble would be 0.0, 0.1 etc... but it should be possible to add in manual anchor for those inline as needed.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:15, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * &amp; ma ybe should be equivalent to ?  JustinCB (talk) 19:03, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes that sounds reasonable. A side issue from the chatter elsewhere was to hide the split= functions, and have plain /s /e /c versions like other templates... Let's test that below

cont....inuation

which should be a continuous paragraph run.

Would recomend a as well.. It effectively does a split=end, but handles the continuation text (only relevant in Page namespace as well.. Sorry to spec this out during the debugging. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:35, 21 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Intended usage is like that here - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Life_Annuities_Act_1808_(ukpga1808142).pdf/1

Other notes on that..
 * Continuation should be on the right hand side (relative to the main text block)
 * Roman style section number is not bold.
 * /s behaviour in Page namespace should have the margin space for the titles..

But I appreciate not all the wrappers are complete yet.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:38, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Actu ally, gi ves:


 * See Page:Test_page for what it would do in the page namespace. JustinCB (talk) 20:31, 21 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Added a test case for /s /e beahviour, please check it out. :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:58, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * /s is fix'd, but /e is currently broken.  I'll fix it tomorrow.  JustinCB (talk) 21:40, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I've fix'd the implied anchors. Before, the preamble would've had preamble, &amp; 1. would've had 1. &amp; 1.1 would've had 1.1. but now 1. has 1.0 &amp; 1.1 has 1.1 &amp; the preamble has 0.0 by default(you can specify s1 or s2 if you want to change it).  JustinCB (talk) 14:13, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

rlpage behaviour
Witnesses Act 1806 Take a look at the bottom printer credit... Okay in Page: namespace not necessarily on Transclusion. Sorry to test until it breaks. ;) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:45, 21 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Documentation note, lr and rl behaviours need to be documented, and match up with the Outside X behaviours I think.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:48, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Progress!

 * Looking good so far.. Not sure how to resolve testcase 5d though. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:49, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * What's the problem with it? Is it that the drop initial is down a bit?  JustinCB (talk) 13:55, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the problem is with MarginNote, not my templates(as you may recall, I decided to use MarginNote for the sidenotes). JustinCB (talk) 14:48, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "Also, I made it so th at the is n't added if you don't specify a "cont=".  JustinCB (talk) 14:00, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * That fi xes causing an extra linebrake(I noticed when I tried to put it inl ine on Page:Life Annuities Act 1808 (ukpga1808142).pdf/1).  JustinCB (talk) 14:48, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Or maybe not

 * Page:Life Annuities Act 1808 (ukpga1808142).pdf/2 which is a /c variant expands across the whole page... hmmm I thought we had this resolved previously... so I wonder what I changed ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:51, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

See Test cases 6(a-d). should be formatted like the /s variants but without the section numbering stuff obviously. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:51, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

I'll add a test cases 7(a) to test even more..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:51, 22 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Okay it now has the margin, but it's not switching to left or right per the layout= param supplied to the /c template variant: hmm...

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:41, 22 June 2018 (UTC)


 * And here the split=cont/split=end version stopped working again - Page:Life Annuities Act 1808 (ukpga1808142).pdf/4 ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:59, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Hmm - (from one of the test cases (6a possibly)     Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

So despite the best efforts something is STILL unblanced, And that was in the transclusion I think...

Okay a simpler test case -

Output: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. Layout param is not being reflected in /c variant, which was something I thought we had fixed. So nearly there, but I am getting annoyed that this is something that Mediawiki should be able to do in core, rather than indvidual projects having to re-implement pusedo-layout engines ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:30, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Something is not getting passed on as the test cases 6a-6d) should reflect margin space on the left or right alterantly, currenty they ALL (in error) display as though the margin sidetitles are on the right - See [], thte block of text is not laid out correctly, The side heading works brilliantly, so I wonder what went wrong.... 14:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Section numbering and layout
Generally for main portion of UK Acts... (it will be different on Schedules.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:17, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you come up with some testcases for those? They seem to be working now(though there's a few I'm not sure if I want to redo as lua or not, but I'll save that for if/when they give me trouble).  JustinCB (talk) 18:51, 22 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Added test cases for known levels, There needs to be a space between the numbering and the 'text' part.. Also my version allowed for a configurable separator when doing 1-2, but that's not vital to implement right now. (Sorry to come up with specs as this is being written. I am really bad at requirements engineering stuff.)


 * pre-text paramater was for anything that went before the numbering, typically a " or ', to allow for stuff like in preambles where it goes

..

"II. And further by the aforesaid act it was enacted ... "

III. And to further the benefit of the enforcement there it shall be further enacted that...

Quotes probably should be done in an cleaner way. The Drop initial issues I am not sure we can solve. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:25, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

The goal
....

Whereas by a policy published on behalf ...

{{cl-act-p/s} text

text..

You can see that obviously on the transclude the intermediate /e with a continuation (in the footer) and /c (in the header) template should never seen outside the Page: namespace, and as far as the parser is concerned it only sees /s -> text -/e which is more compatible with many other templates. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:56, 22 June 2018 (UTC)


 * How to handle headings and tables is whole other round of madness... :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:02, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * ...But I wrote the /c templates so that they would transclude into mainspace properly. They're obviously still compatiable with the standard usage of /s /c &amp; /e templates, though.  JustinCB (talk) 02:39, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Naturally... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:26, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

A longer example
User:ShakespeareFan00/Cap142 The transclusion looks very nice indeed. If the layout isses with /c in Page: context can be resolved, this is (styling issues aside) nearly ready for an opinion at the Scriptorium ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Arbitary break

 * Hmm Nice roman numerals, No titles, but it's obvious you are working on the module right now. :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:59, 24 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Can you document Saferoman? it might be useful in more applications as roman is somewhat limited. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:59, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * saferoman uses to transclude roman in such a way that it doesn't eat the things I mention'd below.  JustinCB (talk) 20:30, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

What changed in the Cl-act module?
Looked at the cl-act-p pages using the module again this morning, Something substantial must have changed because it seems to be working. Congratulations :)ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 07:45, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it was the function get_args . The functions that changed the arguments work right now, &amp; it doesn't depend on having the first argument.  I did that yesterday around lunchtime(which would've been dinnertime for you because I'm on American Eastern Time, which is 5 hours behind England Time).  JustinCB (talk) 13:01, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Testing
Hmmm- Template:Cl-act-p It all works in Page namespace  but I'm not sure whats up here. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:55, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

And : - User:JustinCB/short titles Did something go wrong in the moves? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:00, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

And :- User:ShakespeareFan00/Cap142 - We had this working so something must have gone wrong in the move series? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:01, 26 June 2018 (UTC)


 * And for some obscure reason moving the template meant that the module can't decode the arguments. At times I want to pull my hair out playing hunt the bug. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:11, 26 June 2018 (UTC)


 * And on this Witnesses Act 1806 the heading expands across the page, split=heading isn't specfied but a layout= is. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:13, 26 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Well you tried to get this working, I can't say you didn't. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:13, 26 June 2018 (UTC)


 * And at on point: " Lua error in Module:Cl-act at line 134: attempt to concatenate a boolean value." - Page:Life Annuities Act 1808 (ukpga1808142).pdf/2, Let's keep shaking it till the woodworms fall out ;) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:38, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
 * And now I've managed to almost get it working again. It wasn't very well thought out of me to edit &amp; move the templates @ the same time.
 * Shake harder. I think there may still be a couple of woodworms left.  Also, see if you can't get a woodpecker to eat them, or at least find them for us :)  JustinCB (talk) 16:45, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

ON roman numerals...
Thanks.. User:ShakespeareFan00/roman-test-cases.

And I didn't know about the overline convention for Mille (thousands.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:19, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I added a set to show what a straight transclusion of roman would do to the numbers. roman also eats anything prefix'd with something other than a number, &amp; any suffixes.  It also eats the thousands place for anything over 3000.  JustinCB (talk) 20:26, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Ah Okay... Thanks... You made something more generic :) Excellent :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:33, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Template:cl-act-s
Looking around I also found the REALLY OLD Template:Cl-act-s which was the original attempt to do sidetitle formatting (nominally for Canadian legislation), which I later adadpted into cl-act-paragraph etc. If possible consideration should be given to whether it's template-set can be subsumed into the module approach now being used. It appears to use a full blown DIV for the sidenote as opposed to the current Margin Note approach though. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:52, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Looking at Template:Cl-act/doc most have direct equivalents for the recent cl-act-p ones.. Not essential to convert these as they work at the moment, but if you wanted a challange... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:56, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The nominal Canadians wrote better docs then the both of us, so maybe it would be a good idea to merge them. I'll have to look into how well they'll interoperate, though.   JustinCB (talk) 21:12, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Cl-act..
Did something change? There should be no line break between the numbering and the text.. Cl-act-p/testcases looks wrong.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Where is the linebrake ocuring? I only see 1 linebrake after some 6+ digit number outside of any of the templates.  I don't know why that's thare anyways. JustinCB (talk) 01:53, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I managed to find the cause of the concern inside cl-act-body, and effected a temporary repair.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:06, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Cl-act-testing on Ruffhead.
Well I got around to testing this at last: Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 2.djvu/93 Works as designed.

One limitation is that drop initials aren't fully compatible with the drop initial formatting (yet), and I definitely did not expect them to be.

Is there a smarter way for the Level 0 and x style templates to do the drop-intials, without having to use the drop initial di template?

I'm not sure how di works, but some kind of inline variant of it may be needed? (There's a pending change to CSS3 to cover initial letters, but it's got NO support in major browsers as of Jan 2019.)

The 'quoted' section can be done with the pre-text parameter for most of them.

The drop initials aren't essential, and can be removed for less complexity if needed.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:28, 1 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Your drop initial soloution did not apparently work here Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 2.djvu/94, What I am doing incorrectly? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:29, 16 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Broken function here - What did you change ? - Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 6.djvu/775 ?

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:57, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Hmm.... I think you found a solution for drop initials: if the drop initial is pushed down, wrap preceding side titles w/float left. I won't make any unnecessary changes anymore as long as the templates are working.  I'll have to make a note that if a drop initial is below where it's supposed to be, wrap side titles before the paragraph in float left.  You haven't found any more problems w/the templates, have you?  Don't get discouraged, we'll work out the bugs eventually.  JustinCB (talk) 14:45, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I think we are going to have to wait until the next CSS Layout updates, to fully solve the drop initial issues. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:54, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure the update you made was unnecessary though. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:01, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The float left kludge only works for inlined headers, it doesn't reliably work for a 'title' param provided by the cl-act module itself. I think the drop-initial and pre-text generation needs to be rethought combined somehow, inside the text template. Also the current di usage isn't ideal for screen-readers.  The correct way to do it would "initial-letter" in CSS, but no browser supports that yet.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:06, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * See Page:Test_page for what happens when float left is forced in a title.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk)