User talk:Filip M~enwikisource

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Hi Please do not remove notices such as the on The Macedonian question - Petko R. Slaveikov for proposed deletions. Share your opinion at proposed deletions or on the talk page. I will try and work this out by verifing sources. If you can help me locate some copies of the source it would help greatly.--BirgitteSB 03:11, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

The Macedonian question - Petko R. Slaveikov
Great work on this! I must say I doubted it could be done so quickly. Last small detail is an official release of your copyright of the translation under your prefered license or into the public domain. The GFDL license is recommended because it requires future conntributor to release their additional work under the GFDL and ensures the work remains "copyleft". You can state your choise on the talk page. Thanks for making this happen. --BirgitteSB 17:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * All the credit goes to the user Phips from the bulgarian wikipedia. He was quick to locate the article, and enter it in the bulgarian wikipedia. I re-translated it, our unsigned friend proof-read it, and corrected it. Now there still is one open question about the last paragraph, does it exist or not, and I'm still waiting to hear, and/or receive a faximil from the Macedonian National Archive, but that is what wikipedia is all about, searching for the truth, isn't it. They also promissed me several other articles of interest that are not copyrighted, and one full 400 page history book with more than 900 references.
 * I will update the license tag, and I'll release it as GFDL.--Filip M 03:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Brigitte I linked the article to my user page, just so it is not unlinked. But I'm trying to find an appropriate spot where I can link it. It is a newspaper article, but it is of importance for both the Macedonian and Bulgarian nations, since it reports the about earliest linguistic/nationa
 * Most works are linked to from the author. As you can the author is currently a red link that is why it marked as unlinked.  I have no info on the author and WP does not have an article or I would have made the page.  If can find out some info I will help you put it together.  Template talk:Author explains how it is set up. --BirgitteSB 11:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Also you might want to read this email where Wikimedians are being encouraged to contact places like the Macedonian National Archives. Let me know if I can help you with anything.--BirgitteSB 13:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Brigitte, I like the idea to open an author page, and link its works there. I'll work on the Slaveikov and Misirkov, and I'll link them there. I'm exchanging e-mails with a person from the National Museum of Macedonia. They may release some more documents of national and international interest. --Filip M 19:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Slavejkov's Letters
Filip M, sorry I have been absent for a while but I was too busy at work. Just got Biljarski and Paskov's article - the text of Slavejkov's letters (5 of them) is published there. Seems like good old Dimevski stayed true to himself and was as creative as ever. Many things omitted from the originals, many things added and others changed. I suggest we pull down what is currently online until we have the correct texts translated. (160.39.58.183 19:50, 21 August 2006 (UTC))

That is great!!! When you upload them on the Bulgarian Wikisource, I'll translate them in Macedonian, and either of us can translate them in English. --Filip M 20:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I have no photocopies of the letters and we ahveto take the truthfulness of the published texts on faith. It will take me some time to publish them, the letters are quite long. The two that Dimevski published are about 7 and 4 pages each, he shortened them to 4 and 3 pages respectively. I registered, by the way. Also, is there a way Ican send you and article by my friend? No e-mail here.(ВМРО 13:10, 22 August 2006 (UTC))


 * I don't have an issue with taking the text published by Biljarski as truthful. Blaze Ristovski also favours this edition over the one from Dimevski, as one would always favour the original over a translation. Take your time with publishing the letters. I think they are important for both Macedonian and Bulgarian history and relations, and I'll translate them as soon as you publish them. I don't know what do you mean by sending the article by a friend. I can give you my e-mail address if you want to use it, or alternatively, I can just wait until you publish the articles. Thank you. --Filip M 14:39, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Немам никакво време да ги скенирам, а се многу долги. Можам само да ги скениорам како слики и да ти ги пратам по e-mail. (ВМРО 18:16, 27 September 2006 (UTC))


 * И така бидува. Ако не ти е тешко, испрати ги на: GoranAStojanov@hotmail.com. Однапред благодарам. --Filip M 21:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Risto Stefov's "History"
I personally have nothing against the "Antichki" guys - they are as laughable as the guys in Bulgaria who try to prove ancient Bulgarians are descended from the ancient Sumerians and Egyptians or Mayans. I can only guess what your stance toward Stefov's work is but in my view it can be described as amateur at best.

Anyway, my point is that it is not a historical source but a (extreme fringe POV) modern text. I suggest you move it from Wikisource to Wikibooks.(160.39.58.183 19:50, 21 August 2006 (UTC))

I'm not too thrilled about the ancient history either. But Risto donated his book in public domain, and I don't see a reason not to publish it. Of course it is a strong POV, but wikisource (as well as wikibooks) do not need to follow the rule of neutral POV, as long as the whole text is presented in the original form. --Filip M 21:00, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Author:Risto Stefov
I was looking at the works you have added by this author. I was reading his webpage to see if any copyright waiver was there, but it seems that these works may not fit our inclusion guidelines as being previously published. The one book appears to be from a "vanity press" and the other text was only put up online rather than oublished at all from what I can tell. Am off-base here? If there are any ISBN numbers for these books we could clear this up very quickly.--70.241.199.143 18:07, 7 September 2006 (UTC)Forgot to log in --BirgitteSB 18:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't have the hard copies of the books, so I'll need to contact the author to obtain them. I asked the author for a permission to publish the books on Wikisource, since I belive they are a nice contribution on clearing the water regarding the Macedonian issue, and he gave me a permission. So I don't think we have a copyright issue here. --Filip M 18:20, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I do think any copyright concerns can be cleared up. There is some paperwork that needs to be filed basically.  However before we ask the author to take care of the copyright paperwork, I want to be certain these will be acceptable according to the inclusion policy (read that link if haven't already).  If you are already talking to thae author will you find out what publishing house printed the hard copies and an ISBN would be great.  I cannot find them by searching online booksellers. --BirgitteSB 00:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I send an e-mail to the author with a request for the ISBN numbers. --Filip M 13:32, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks let me know what you find out. --BirgitteSB 02:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

(unindent)Brigitte, here is the info that I received from the author Risto Stefov: Both books were printed in 2005 by:

Webcom Limited 3480 Pharmacy Avenue Toronto, Ontario Canada M1W 2S7

Their ISBN's are: ISBN for "History of the Macedonian people from Ancient Times to the Present" = 0-9737256-0-5

ISBN for "Macedonia: An Illustrated history with Maps, Photographs and Biographies" =0-9737256-1-3

The series "What went wrong in the last 200 years" is included in the book "History of the Macedonian people from Ancient Times to the Present.

I believe it is important to host these two books on wikisource, because they represent an independend Macedonian view on the Macedonian history. Macedonian question has been a puzzle in the european diplomacy for at least 140 years. A plethora of books have been written from various sources. All our neighbors, and all major players in the world diplomacy, had their own view on our history. Those views are so different, that you might easily get an impression that they talk about several completely different countries and nations.

There are not many books written by Macedonains available in English on this subject. The reason for this is that it is still hard, if not even impossible, to publish a book representing a neutral or pro-Macedonian view on our history in the greek or in the bulgaraian portion of Macedonia (ref. link Karakasidou case). Another example of the oposition of presenting a material that is not in line with the official greek or bulgarian view is the request for deletion and the paranoia that we saw few months ago around the publishing of the article: The Macedonian question - Petko R. Slaveikov.

Risto Stefov is a Macedonian born in Greece, but it wasn't until he moved to Canada that he was able to print his books and express his views on the Macedonian history. --Filip M 14:08, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I have searched the most common w:Special:Booksources, especially the ones listed for Canada, with those ISBN numbers. I did not find a single hit on either one.  After looking up Webcom, I believe they are acting as a vanity press in this case.  They describe themselves as "one of Canada's largest book manufacturers" and claim to have "worked with publishers of all kinds for more than twenty years."  This imply they do not consider themselves to be a "publisher" in the traditional meaning.  I looked up w:Wikipedia:Reliable sources for the definition of self-published sources:

"A self-published source is a published source that has not been subject to any form of independent fact-checking, or where no one stands between the writer and the act of publication. It includes personal websites, and books published by vanity presses. Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources."


 * The combination of no ISBN hits and my belief that Webcom does not provide fact-checking or editorial services on the items it prints lead me to believe that these two works are unacceptable at Wikisource per WS:WWI. I am nominating these for deletion.  I do realize Macedonian history is a sensitive issue.  This is one reason we must make certain everything on the subject adheres to the policies.  Not everything on the subject will fit within the mandate of Wikisource.  I believe these two works do not just as I believe The Macedonian question does.  I encourage you to look into Webcom and try to find copies of these books in circulation yourself and judge whether or not they adhere to our policies outside of the desirability of the content.  If I am incorrect it should be revealed in the deletion discussions. --BirgitteSB 20:50, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Brigitte, I may have misunderstood the purpose of wikisource. This book clearly is not a document, but a history textbook. If you believe that it is not appropriate for an inclusion, please proceed with deletion. --Filip M 13:25, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I do think it is inappropriate for inclusion here. The goal at Wikisource to host document which have been vouched for by publication.  The The Macedonian question for example was approved by the editors of the newspaper.  When a publishing house puts out a book they approve it and risk liability for anything that it might contain.  Wikisource doesn't want to be in the position of not having that publisher protecting us with their prior fact-checking and approval of the work.  The only exceptions to this requirement are translations of a foreign work which meets the requirements in the original language and primary sources.  Primary sources include things like personal letters and journals which are a documentation of some experience.  A book which tries explain a history is clearly a secondary source and must meet the stricter requirements.  I hope that explains things better

. --BirgitteSB 22:28, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I understand. Now you gave me an idea of another book that might be appropriate for inclusion. Before I start working on it, lets clear up if the book is appropriate or not. I'll open a new sub-section. --Filip M 14:01, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Blaže Ristovski: A History of the Macedonian Nation (1999)
The book [Macedonia and the Macedonian People] that I would like to upload in wikisource is published by the Acad. Dr. Blaže Ristovski. It is a publication of the Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts. The english translation is prepared by Filip Korzenski and it is released in public domain. It is a serious history book with about 2000 references, covering the Macedonian history from the 6th century up to the present day. Do you think this book is appropriate for inclusion. --Filip M 14:01, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes this book is checking out. I was quickly able to find the exact bibliography info

Auteur: Ristovski, Blaže Titre: Macedonia and the Macedonian people / Blaže Ristovski ; [transl. by Filip Korženski] Lieu / Date: Vienna [etc.] : Simag Holding, 1999 Collation: XII, 375 p. ; 24 cm ISBN / Prix: 9989887004 Classification: 949.71 RIS
 * And an ISBN search of both general libaries and the Library of Congress produced results. This was not true of the other book.  Now before you start adding it you should get confirmation of the copyright status.  Copied below are directions from WP.

Once you have received a confirmation that permission has been given, you should forward it to the Wikimedia PR department at the e-mail address "permissions AT wikimedia DOT org", where it will be securely archived. Forward both your request and the answer received to that e-mail address, preferrably together as one message (e.g., as attachments to one message of yours that would say that you received such-and-such release of which article or image).
 * The key thing this email needs to contains is that the person you are asking does in fact own the copyright to this book (ask them directly if they are the copyright holder) and that they are licensing this book under the GFDL or have already released this work into the public domain.  If this is done I can think of nothing that should prevent Wikisource from hosting this work.--BirgitteSB 18:07, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Brigitte, Thank you for your detailed instructions. I'll do my best to provide the permission, and upload the book. It will take some time, since this is a very long and complex text, with several scripts being used in the reference portion, but it is worth it. --Filip M 19:12, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

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Renamed
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