User talk:Alien333

Hello! Please tell me if I mess up.

Italics
Please note that italics do not carry across line breaks. You either have to stop and restart on the next line. or (better) remove the line breaks.

Regards -- Beardo (talk) 16:55, 24 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, sorry, I know, it's just that it took me a little while to realize and that when, then, I tried to go back and correct myself, I missed a few. I'm pretty new at this and so I more or less learned by experience.
 * ˜˜˜˜ Alien333 (talk) 17:44, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No problem. I think most of us have learned that way. I recently learned from Scriptorium that there is the page linked there which lists such errors. -- Beardo (talk) 18:38, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Titles on subpages
Making this change in the header of the subpages will turn Poems (Nora May French) by Nora May French into the correct Poems by Nora May French EncycloPetey (talk) 19:59, 20 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Ok! Sorry, I'll correct it. Alien333 (talk) 19:21, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Template:asc
You may find {asc useful, especially for, , and roman numerals that are printed in capital small caps. Yes, you could use sc with lower-case letters, but typically books do not use lower-case letters for these things, and putting lower-case into the text with small-caps will not preserve the case when someone grabs the text using copy-paste, such as for a quote in a school paper or for quoting in a Wikipedia article or on Wikiquote. The advantage of asc is that you can write the text in the correct case and still get it to display in reduced capitals. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:54, 23 February 2024 (UTC)


 * OK! Alien333 (what I did and why I did it wrong ) 11:17, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Page:Poems Barrett.djvu/134
Check your module,  seems to misbehave , by throwing a supurious closing SPAN tag? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:24, 1 May 2024 (UTC)


 * If you are talking about the nearly-empty poem, there was a cleaner way to do it (and I corrected it), but if it's not that I don't see what you mean about that closing SPAN. As far as I can see, it only adds a at the same time as adding a  . — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 17:31, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C

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Poetry collections
Thanks for completing so many small books of poetry by authors whose works we do not have, and which won't be found in most libraries.

Would you consider also doing Fiddler's Farewell (1926) by poet and violinist Leonora Speyer? Her poetry won the Pulitzer in 1927, so it's a significant work, by a poet for whom we have no works at all. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:58, 9 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I could, but I'd need you to get it, as I'm not a member at Hathi and it'd be a bother to download each of the 136 pages manually.
 * If you are more interested by the author than the specific collection, there are two scans of A canopic jar  available on IA, which I prefer. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 06:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Fiddler's Farewell is the Pulitzer winning work, so it's the one I'm interested in, but I cannot grab Hathi downloads either. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:27, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Poetry foundation says it's available in the Poetry magazine, which to my surprise we do not have but that is on jstor, more specifically in the issue of Jan. 1926, and the poem itself, p201-205 is there, which according to jstor is in public domain as © 1926 Poetry Foundation. I'll get at it some time soon, probably after finishing Index:Poems Shipton.djvu, but I think eventually I'll try to do the whole magazine. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 14:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: did she get the prize for the poem or the book? Because there appears to be a collection of the same name (136 vs. 5 pages), that is the one at Hathi, and the poem after which it appears to have been named, that is what I found. EDIT: after just looking on WP it appears to have been for the book. Once more unto the breach, then... — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 14:58, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * *sigh* I've given up, looks like it's Hathi or nothing. I've started taking the pages. EDIT: on top of all the rest, the preview images are scaled down. Well, 700*1000 will have to be enough, and I'm not going to go 136 times through their download dialog — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 15:15, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, there it is: Index:Fiddler's Farewell.djvu. The PNGs were acceptable at best, all pdf mergers I found (the three that let me upload 136 pages) made it terrible, for some reason the OCR on djvu conversion appeared not to work, and it has two watermarks, but it's there. As I said, will get at it at some point during next week. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 15:53, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @EncycloPetey It's done. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 10:48, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:34, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Transclusion in page order
Hi @Alien333,

As EncycloPetey said above, many thanks for completing so many poems. However, in the case of Poems (Baldwyn), I am inclined to believe the transclusion should be in page order, regardless of the ordering in the table of contents. I am in no way asking you to change it, although at some point, someone with greater concerns about the matter may add an (what I would consider "loud") template on the main page indicating it doesn't conform to Wikisource standards, unless things have changed since the last time I recall this happening. At the very least, information for the future. As an aside, if you are interested in having some of your work validated, especially more famous works (like the Fiddler's Farewell) mentioned above, we would be happy to have it included in the Monthly Challenge, if you are okay with that. Up to you though.

Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:42, 9 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Fiddler's Farewell is more or less an exception and at request, most of the time I just do random books called Poems. Feel free to include anything you want. I have collections from ~20 content pages to >400, so there's probably something of the right size.
 * On TOC's, I've already encountered the same problem with Poems (Cromwell), so if correction there is it would have to be done there too. I made that decision on the basis that it would be awkward to not be able to navigate in the sense of the TOC (and maybe also out of laziness of having to scroll through the TOC to find the right capitalization of the titles). — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 20:57, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Given how far you have already progressed with Fiddler's Farewell, I might just leave it as is. You are ever so efficient with the use of those ppoem templates.
 * I suspect that the previous/next sections of the header were to imply flipping forward and backward through the actual pages of the text (just like a real book!), but in terms of sensible, I don't see a great deal of difference. I guess just consider this a heads up then, unless someone else has graver concerns. Regards, TeysaKarlov (talk) 23:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * We'll probably be able to include Fiddler's Farewell quite soon.
 * (Honestly, regarding ppoem, most of the work of figuring when to put what end/start is done by a script of mine nowadays, alongside with indenting.) — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 07:17, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It's done, so you can include it. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 10:47, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation pages
Hi, I noticed that you've added new works to various disambiguation pages (not everyone does). The convention adopted with these appears to be:— Chrisguise (talk) 07:51, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) the list is alphabetised by author surname;
 * 2) if there's more than one work of the same name by an author (usually poems), the first line is quoted; and
 * 3) parts of books (e.g. a short story or essay, or individual poems) are given in double quotes, titles of whole works are in italics.


 * Well, ok, by coincidence I've just made a post to ask for the conventions, and possibly officialize it, as everyone does not appear to be aware of there conventions, for example titles are often left plain. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 08:01, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I made these up for myself as I went along based on what appeared to be most common practice, and most helpful. Chrisguise (talk) 08:05, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Poems (Smith)
Hi, I noticed that you've used to create a table of contents for this work when it has one of its own (albeit in a different format to most books). I've just done one (The Canary) which has a (mostly) alphabetised ToC based on first lines rather than titles. For some reason the 'O' section is in reverse alphabetical order. Chrisguise (talk) 17:52, 18 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Up to a week ago (such as for Poems (Cromwell) and Poems (Baldwyn)), I'd used the original TOC in these cases when the TOC is not in order of apparition, until I was asked about a week ago by @TeysaKarlov to transclude instead in order of apparition, so I also put a second TOC that would match the order of transclusion because it would be awkward to navigate in a totally unrelated order. Usually, I also leave the original TOC after, with the links (like in Poems (Hazlett-Bevis)) but the one in Poems (Smith) was incomplete (did not show poems of the same name, only the first one) so I delinked it. What do you think I should do? — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 18:26, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Alien333 Sorry if I caused confusion. I was not suggesting to modify the TOC in any way. All I meant was that all the previous/next links for each poem should follow in page order. That aside, what do you mean by "(did not show poems of the same name, only the first one)"? The table of contents seems to have many (if not all) of the poems in Poems (Smith), although I have not checked every one, to see if it is incomplete. However, if a table of contents is missing an entry, you can add an auxiliary line(s) to the original TOC (e.g.~Page:Eliot - Middlemarch, vol. I, 1871.djvu/9). Hope that helps, and thanks again for all your poetry efforts, TeysaKarlov (talk) 21:22, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There were entries like "To Willie", of which there are two (Poems (Smith)/To Willie (Willie, may thy life abound) and Poems (Smith)/To Willie (Willie, may thy life be pure)), but the original TOC listed only one. Same for other poems that shared a title. Led to redlinks in the toc when @Duckmather linked it. Thanks for reminding me of the aux-toc lines, I'd forgotten they existed.
 * If pages should always be transcluded in order of apparition, when the TOC is not in that order, a secondary, auxiliary TOC is I think useful for navigation. At any rate, it is for proofreading, because often in poetry titles on the pages of these poems are in all-caps, and the correct capitalization is only present in the TOC. This makes it for most poetry collections a headache to transclude without a TOC in order of apparition to find what is the exact name of the following/preceding poem.
 * Imagine someone wanted to read one of these collections. They could either a) fish for the smallest page number in the TOC, assuming it's correct, and take the "next" links, or b) start from another one, maybe the first in the TOC, and then land at some random point in the collection and then have to go through the "next" links and the "previous" links if they want to read the whole of it. Same goes if they were interrupted and want to re-start reading at a specific point in the book.
 * This inconvenience exists specifically and only when the order of tranclusion is different from the order of the TOC. That was why first I always transcluded in the order of the TOC, and after learning that transclusion has to be in page order, I add a second TOC that matches the order of transclusion to ease navigation. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 07:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

sib links
As long as the target subpage and target display name are the same, you can use this syntax, which is just as compact as the template but without requiring a template. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 05:06, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello, new reader here...
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Alien333#/editor/0 ImaginarySusan (talk) 09:00, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Feel free to ask if you have any questions. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 09:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Merci beaucoup!
 * ( High school French... from 40 years ago!)
 * 🙏👩‍🎨🇲🇫💜 ImaginarySusan (talk) 10:12, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * oh I am fumbling. I wrote a bunch of information to you and then thought it might be in the incorrect place so I copied the message to my clipboard and just tried to send that text to you.
 * I can't seem to recover it now so I'll attempt to rewrite what I contacted you about.
 * Serendipitously, i crossed your path by researching wireframes on wiki as i am intrigued with learning to write code... but this was my first trip down the "rabbit hole"
 * I am a poetry enthusiast, also and while wandering around your contributed content appreciated your knowledge.
 * Also, Alien333 resonates with me for a variety of reasons..and it happened to be your username, which was my first encounter here. ImaginarySusan (talk) 09:12, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * What you sent was only the link to editing this page.
 * I left the usual welcome message on your page, it's useful.
 * If you are interested in poetry, I also suggest you take a look at Template:Ppoem, that is as of now more or less the best alternative for formatting poetry.
 * If you want to get started, here's an poetry index, picked at random: Index:The Poems of John Donne - 1896 - Volume 1.djvu.
 * Of course, feel free to do whatever you prefer.
 * If you can specify what sort of books you want to do, I might be able to fish a file in the Internet Archive.
 * Cheers, — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 09:27, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh my! Much appreciated that you responded so considerately! I didnt expect it and you have launched my enthusiasm to pursue this endeavor! I will pick this up upon waking as soon i will be going to sleep, but certainly hope to be in touch with you more if you will find it comfortable and worthwhile to mentor me for a bit!
 * My favorite poet is Walt Whitman...if I must choose from many I love.
 * My gratitude to you !
 * ImaginarySusan! ImaginarySusan (talk) 09:39, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Here's one of Whitman's collections for you: Index:Drum-Taps.djvu.
 * (I myself only went down the rabbit hole a few months ago). — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 09:53, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * oh thankyou! I will check that out before sleep... and yes, I notic3d your 1 yr. anniversary on wiki was just two weeks ago!
 * My how far you've come! What an inspiration! ImaginarySusan (talk) 09:56, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * damn auto correct!
 * Im obviously not proofreading my messages to you...
 * ..as " spell check overnights" was supposed to be oversights*!
 * Lol. ImaginarySusan (talk) 09:53, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh, and also: you might want to create your user page, with a bit of information about yourself.
 * User pages are also often used to keep things (such as links) close at hand, since you can go to your user page from anywhere. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 09:30, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yet another reply: I recommend you read Help:Proofread.
 * I'm assuming you want to contribute, of you don't that's fine and then Help:Reading would probably be more appropriate. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 09:34, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * oh yes I will read everything you suggested. It may take me some time..lol
 * "Back in the day" i started my graphic communication career in typesetting, copywriting and the REAL old fashioned skill of original proofreading! I was very good...and to this day I don't casually read a thing without noticing typos, grammatical errors, and spell check overnights! (Notice the Oxford comma!) Lol.
 * I am in the NW Pennsylvania area of the US..and an artist, writer and night owl... I see you are in UK?
 * The morning bird songs are beginning here, as it is almost dawn. I will let you know once I've started reading, and if i get stuck understanding anything.
 * My best to you! ImaginarySusan (talk) 09:51, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * No, I'm not in the UK, I'm French, so my english is always going to be somewhere between british and american english. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 09:54, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Eggless recipe book for cakes . . .Index
I wondered the same thing. I suspect it's something in the scan file causing the issue. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:27, 7 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Said it in an edit summary for a near-null edit, it's the table { width: 100%; } in the index CSS that naturally causes the info to expand to fill the whole width, as it's a table, and then it's wrapped and it ends up under the image. If we'd put something like td { background-color:red; }, it would also have applied. I would call index CSS applying to default mediawiki layout a problem, but we do need it to apply to pages transcluded, e. g. for the TOC. Maybe we should open a ticket about this. Left a comment at WS:S to see if others might know a bit more about that — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 06:22, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Baltimore
Yes, for clarity I DO in fact own the city of Baltimore!!! 50.75.166.42 19:21, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Oh stop it, will you? (WP vandal coming over here) — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 19:22, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Rossetti. Poems
We may need a versions page for this. The original was published in 1890, but there was an expanded 1891 edition. I do not know yet whether the 1901 edition that you are editing follows the 1890 or the 1891, or is further expanded. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:56, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Do we have the other editions, to check the difference?
 * If it helps, the 1901 one says "new and enlarged" and "First complete edition printed November 1890, Reprinted December 1890, January 1891, August 1891, 1892, 1894, 1895, 1896, 1897, 1899, 1901". — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 20:13, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * From a quick look at the TOCs of the 1890 one and the 1891 one, they all look the same.
 * The 1890 edition was in itself already marked "new and enlarged", so I think all three are of (nearly) the same text, already expanded from some earlier collection of poems, maybe this 1866 one, this 1872 one, or that 1888 one. More likely, each edition expanded from the last one, since they all share the same beginning and some poems are added progressively at the end. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 20:40, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

New texts
Indeed, the problem has been corrected now. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:38, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


 * (Note: that was four hours before you reverted, I think it's just spl that got you confused.) — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 18:40, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Poems, 1909-1925
This collection of poetry by T. S. Eliot was first published in 1925; here is a link to the 1926 reprint on IA:. The collection includes editions of some poems we already have, but also some that we do not. It is about 100 pages. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:44, 10 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Will do, after finishing Index:Poems Hornblower.djvu. I intent to overwrite Poems (Eliot) for this, as it's unsourced and its contents are included in this 1926 collection. — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 07:33, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That's a different collection, with completely different poems. T. S. Eliot published a series of Poems books, starting with that one.  Subsequent volumes had a year range as part of the title, and the contents were different each time.  It would probably be better to turn that into a versions page as a result of the differences between the many editions. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:51, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The TOC of the 1926 book you pointed me to contains the subsection "Poems (1920)", that contains exactly the same poems as the other one (compare this and that). — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 16:16, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Subsection, yes, but there are also additional poems not in the 1920 edition. So the two editions are different from each other, yet both are titles Poems.  And the 1932 edition contains further poems not in the 1920 or 1926 edition, and we will want to host the 1932 edition as well.  My point is that we will eventually have additional editions, and the page Poems (Eliot) is the logical place to disambiguate those editions.  So, rather than put the 1926 edition at that location, convert it to a disambiguation page listing the 1920 and 1926 editions, and providing us a place to also list the 1932 edition in future.  The alternative is to have to redo all of the internal and external links the next time an edition of his poetry is transcribed here. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:25, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok then, I'll put it at Poems (Eliot, 1926). Note: All of these editions will anyways (I think?) be listed at Poems, so I don't know if it's worth putting a separate dab page at Poems (Eliot). — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 07:48, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @EncycloPetey: ✅ (though I'm not sure the titles, quotations and poems are positioned the right way). — Alien333 (what I did &amp; why I did it wrong) 13:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)