Translation talk:Ayil Meshulash/Discourse 1

First off, I want to highly commend the creator of this translation. What an amazing accomplishment!

That having been said I think it's important to point out that, in any body of translation work in general and in regard to that of the Vilna Gaon specifically, you're apt to have losses in translation and as such lose intent or meaning. In my personal opinion, איל משולש is in large part related to kabbalistic concepts and references. As such the reader should be aware that reading from a translation is "half of the story".

Examples:

1. D1.S1 - "The cube has length, width and height" -- הגשם יש לו אורך ורוחב וגובה. The reference to גשם as having 3 dimensions is specifically because the word )גשם (343 is the cube of the number 7. i.e. 7 x 7 x 7 = 343.

2. Ibid.S3 - "The lines on the sides of a plane are called edges, and the point at which they meet is called a vertex (lit. corner)." הקוין של קצה השטח יקראו צלעות והנקודה במקום שמחוברין שני צלעות יקראו זויות. I'm not much of a kabbalist but the hebrew words of צלעות וזויות are a clear reference to the parasha of the Mishkan and are meant to be then understood together with that parasha, as well as other places where those specific hebrew terms appear (most prominently the creation of Eve -- ויקח אחת מצלעותיו. The נקודה in kabbalistic writings appears very often as a reference to the letter yud and the Gaon is pointing out that the the concept of צלע comprises at it's fundamental level, the point (נקודה, yud, etc).

3.Ibid. S17-18 "The completion of an angle is the amount needed over a smaller angle to reach 90 degrees. The remainder of an angle is amount needed over an angle to reach 180 degrees." -- תשלום הזוית הוא המותר מזוית צרה עד צ' מעלות. שארית הזוית הוא המותר מזוית איזה שיהיה עד ק"פ מעלות. I don't understand the exact reference but the assumption is that a זוית שלמה is one of 90 degrees (relating possibly to the אות צ in the word צלם). Hence the תשלום of an angle is what it takes to get it to 90. as opposed to a זוית approaching that of becoming a קו (a kabbalistic concept in reference to Yaakov/Yisrael -- there it's called a שארית -- as in שארית ישראל לא יעשו עולה וכולי

My suggestion would be to place the original hebrew term alongside the english terms when possible. I'd do it myself but don't wish to intrude on the author's sense of styling or wishes.

congratulations and blessings again on this work! --Dmokhtar (talk) 07:59, 6 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Dmokhtar,


 * Thank you for your kind words. For the purpose of this translation I am following the approach of the Hebrew commentary, who translates this work in a very straightforward mathematical sense. There may be Kabbalistic allusions in here, but they're keeping a very low profile. Though the Hebrew terms provide keyword segues into Midrash and Kabbalah they are the vocabulary you would expect from someone speaking to his audience in the vernacular of rabbinic Hebrew. I don't think their usage is odd even in a purely mathematical sense. I agree with you that the Hebrew terms should be along side, I'm just focusing on the English for now. If you would like to add the Hebrew terms you are welcome to do so. Thanks again! Shemindex (talk) 14:39, 8 January 2013 (UTC)