Page:Trial of john lilburne (IA trial john lilburne).djvu/47

 of the Liberties of England will not be more cruell, and unrighteous then the declared destroys of them, if you will not allow me Counsell as I had there, I have no more to say to you, you may murder me if you please.

Judg Jerman. You were pleased to mention some presidents of those that have been accused of high Treason, that have had Counsell assigned to them, and for one you mention, that of my Lord of Strafford, whose Triall I told you was Parliamentarie before the House of Peers, upon the impeachment of the Commons of England in Parliament assembled, and so it went on in a Parliamentarie way, their proceeding is in an ordinarie course of the ordinarie qundamquondam [sic] Court of Justice'' according to the common law. Now for my L. of Strafford, give me leave to observe this; he had no Counsell assigned him untill such time as questions of the law did arise, which required Councell, and then he had Counsell assigned him, but not before; for that my Lord doth not say, that you shall have no Counsell, but that you shall have that which the law allows: and as for that which you speake of counsell at Oxford, it could not be; but when upon the proofe of matter of fact, it appears to the Court, that there is any Question or matter of law arising upon the fact: And when it doth so appear unto us, then you shall have Councell for that; but (I beseech you) hear me on, You are nown come before us according to the common law, to be tried by your Countrie, there is now nothing in question, but whether that matter, that thing, those words contained in the Indictment read to you, be true, yea, or no; that is, whether they be done, or no, for wee will not give Counsell to plead to the matter of fact contained in your owne bookes, which you remember very well.''

L. Col. Lilb. Those books supposed mine: pray let me have fair play, and not be wound up and scru’d up into hazards and snares.

Lord Keble. If they be not yours upon good grounds proved before you, you are in no danger: and if upon the proofes of the words and deeds done, there doe appear matter of law, you must and shall have counsell; stay till that be done, in the meane time the Court will take care that a Jurie shall be returned of honest and sufficient legall men to judge of the proofes.

L. Col. Lilb. There was arraigned with me at Oxford Collonel Vivers of Banbury now alive, and Capt. Catesby who is dead: I will bring Coll. Vivers to depose here upon his Oath, that my Lord Heath & the rest of the Commissioners of Oyer and Terminer proffered me Counsell, and allowed me and him Counsell before ever so much as any witnesses were produced, to prove the least matter of fact: and if you wil not be so just towards me as the Cavalliers were, and allow me Counsell as they did. I have no more to say, but resolve upon this score, to stand, Rh