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 as to all the interiors of his rational and natural mind, be elevated by the Lord to Himself, can believe in Him, be affected with love toward Him, and thus see Him; and that he can receive intelligence and wisdom, and converse in a rational manner. It is for this reason also that he lives forever. But what is disposed and provided by the Lord in this inmost [degree], does not come manifestly to the perception of any angel, because it is above his thought, and transcends his wisdom.

That man is a spirit as to his interiors, has been taught me by much experience, which, were I to adduce the whole of it, would fill volumes,—to use a common saying. I have conversed with spirits as a spirit, and I have conversed with them as a man in the body. And when I conversed with them as a spirit, they knew no otherwise than that I myself was a spirit, and in the human form as they were. Thus my interiors appeared to them; for when I conversed with them as a spirit, my material body did not appear.

That man is a spirit as to his interiors, may appear from the fact, that after his separation from the body, which takes place at death, he still lives a man as before. That I might be confirmed in this, I have been permitted to converse with almost all whom I ever knew when they lived in the body; with some for hours, with others for weeks and mouths, and