Page:The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 Volume 2.djvu/382

 7 lEc011DS OF THE FEDEllAL CONVENTION Wednesday MADISON .,'lugust zz Mr. Govr. Morris thought the precaution as to ex post facto laws unnecessary; but essential as to bills of attainder Mr Elseworth contended that there was no lawyer, no civilian who would not say that ex post facto laws were void of themselves. It cannot then be necessary to prohibit them. Mr. Wilson was against inserting anything in the Constitu- tion as to ex post facto laws. It will bring reflexions on the Constitution- and proclaim that we are ignorant of the first principles of Legislation, or are constituting a Government which will be so. The question being divided, The first part of the motion relating to bills of attainder was agreed to nem. contradicente. On the second part relating to ex post facto laws- Mr Carrol remarked that experience overruled all other calculations. It had proved that in whatever light they might be viewed by civilians or others, the State Legislatures had passed them, and they had taken effect. Mr. Wilson. If these prohibitions in the State Constitu- tions have no effect, it will be useless to insert them in this Constitution. Besides, both sides will agree to the principle & will differ as to its application. Mr. Williamson. Such a prohibitory clause is in the Con- stitution of N. Carolina, and tho it has been violated, it has done good there & may do good here, because the Judges can take hold of it Docr. Johnson thought the clause unnecessary, and imply- ing an improper suspicion of the National Legislature. Mr. Rutlidge was in favor of the clause. On the question for inserting the prohibition of ex post facto laws. N--H-- ay--Mas. ay. Cont. no. N. J-- no. Pa. no. Del-- a�. Md. ay. Virga. a 7 N-- C. divd. S.C. ay-- Geo. ay. [Ayes -- 7; noes -- 3; divided -- x.] The report of the committee of 5. made by Mr. Rutlidge, was taken up & then postponed that each member Might furnish himself with a copy. The Report of the Committee of Eleven delivered in & entered on the Journal of the 2st. inst. was then taken up.

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