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136 took from them first the shape, then the material, at last all accessories, so that at last the mere ens remained. And then they disputed as to whether all things were one and the same, whether all things are verily that which they are; and they asked each other more questions such as these. Noticing this, some began to wonder, and to tell how high human wit had risen, so that it was able to surpass all creatures, and to divest all corporal things of their corporality. At last I also began to delight in these subtleties. But then, one rising up declared that such things were mere phantasies, and they should desist from them. And he drew some away with him; but others, again, arose and condemned him as a heretic, saying that he separated men from philosophy, which is the highest knowledge, and, as it were, the head "artium." And after listening sufﬁciently to these disputes, I went away from this spot.

8. And proceeding on our way, we come among some who dwelt in a hall full of ciphers, and shifted them carefully. Some took a few from the lot and placed them differently; others, again, collected these separate portions into one; others, again, divided them and spread them out, so that I wondered at this their work. Meanwhile, they said that in all philosophy there was no knowledge more certain than theirs. Here, they said, there could be no mistakes, no errors, no superfluity.