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150 November 14. It shows on September 15 a withdrawal of $1,029.

Do you know what that was withdrawn for?

Mr. CHRISTMAS. I cannot say I know; no.

The CHAIRMAN. It shows on September 16 a withdrawal of $6,000. Do you know what that was withdrawn for?

Mr. CHRISTMAS. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And on September 19 a withdrawal of $20,000; on September 23 a withdrawal of $3,300 and $16,700. Do you know what that was for?

Mr. CHRISTMAS. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. On November 17 a withdrawal of $350. Do you know what that was for? Mr. CHRISTMAS. No, sir. I can only say T presume entertainment and traveling expenses. That is not testimony. That is just guess- ing. The CHAIRMAN. Now, Mr. MacGuire also testified he received $7,200, $2,500, and the $1,000 from Mr. Clark, and he testified that was to pay his trip to Europe. You have testified to $7,900. Caa you account for the discrepancy in the testimony of Mr. MacGuire and yourself? Mr. CHRISTMAS. How much is the discrepancy? The CHAIRMAN. $7,200 and $2,500 is $9,700 and $1,000 is $10,700. You have accounted for $7,900. There is a difference of about $2,800. Can you account for the discrepancy? Mr. CHRISTMAS. I think Mr. MacGuire made a mistake. Here is a statement he rendered which shows the total expenses of $7,900 on his trip and Mr. Rempe has ehecked up with the bank and they have a letter which I will read if you like, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead. Mr. CHRISTMAS. "Referring to your account at this office we wish to advise on March 8 we certified your check in the amount of $5,000 and that on June 8 we honored your check in the amount of $2,902.93", which matches up exactly with his statement. I am quite positive those were the only amounts given. I think he took some of his own money with him when he left, and he may have gotten mixed up in that respect. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. MacGuire testified that he lunched with you and Mr. Clark in the Bankers' Club in New York City and received $10,000 in cash from you. Did he ever receive that amount? Mr. CHRISTMAS. He is mistaken there. No. I gave him a certi- fied check at the Bankers' Club. The CHAIRMAN. I asked you the question, did he receive that amount, yes or no? Mr. CHRISTMAS. No. The CHAIRMAN. I asked this question: "Did Mr. Clark contribute any money in any other way besides the $30,000 and the other sums that you have enumerated that he gave you personally", which was $7,200, $2,500, and the $1,000. Mr. MacGuire answered: "No, sir. Ile has been asked several times to contribute to different funds, but he has refused." Is that correct? Mr. CHRISTMAS. Well, he is always being asked to contribute. The CHAIRMAN. I asked you, is that correct: Outside of the $30,000, the $7,200, the $2,500, and $1,000 has Mr. Clark made other contributions? INVESTIGATION OF NAZI AND OTHER PROPAGANDA 151 Mr. CHRISTMAS. He has not made other contributions toward the sound money- am not asking you that. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. CHRISTMAS. He has made many charitable contributions. The CHAIRMAN. Did he make any other contributions to MacGuire or did he give any other money to MacGuire? Mr. CHRISTMAS. No. The CHAIRMAN. What about this $64,000? Did he not give that to him? Mr. CHRISTMAS. Well, I have already testified to that. I thought you were referring to it with that exception. The CHAIRMAN. I am calling your attention specifically to the testi- mony of MacGuire. Mr. CHRISTMAS. Very well. The CHAIRMAN. Where MacGuire denies receiving any other money other than the $30,000 from Clark, the $7,200, the $2,500, and the $1,000. In addition to the $7,900 which you say was spent on this trip to Europe he has received $64,000 or $65,000; that is true, is it not? Mr. CHRISTMAS. Yes; that is. The CHAIRMAN. I may say and so on all through his testimony, he has denied receiving anything outside of the $30,000 and the approxi- mately $10,700 that he testified to in connection with the trip to Europe. Mr. CHRISTMAS. Of course, I have not seen the testimony. The CHAIRMAN. And $10,000 at the Bankers' Club. The $25,000 originally given was given for entertainment purposes and traveling expenses, so you say? Mr. CHRISTMAS. That was the idea I had in mind, chiefly. The CHAIRMAN. It was not given for the purpose of buying bonds? Mr. CHRISTMAS. Mr. MacGuire did mention that to me. The CHAIRMAN. It was not given for the purpose of buying bonds, was it? Mr. CHRISTMAS. I would say not primarily. The CHAIRMAN. Now you are quibbling. Mr. CHRISTMAS. I did not intend to quibble with you, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Well, you are. Was that money given to Mr. MacGuire with the intention of buying bonds? Yes or no. Mr. CHRISTMAS. No. The CHAIRMAN. There is no question but what Mr. MacGuire contacted General Butler, is there? Mr. CHRISTMAS. Not the slightest. The CHAIRMAN. There is no question but what Mr. Clark went down there to see General Butler, is there? Mr. CHRISTMAS. Not the slightest. The CHAIRMAN. There is no question but what Mr. MacGuire had seen Butler on several occasions? Mr. CHRISTMAS. He has told me about four or five different nterviews with him. The CHAIRMAN. You knew of it? Mr. CHRISTMAS. I knew of it. The CHAIRMAN. And Clark knew of it? Mr. CHRISTMAS. I do not know whether he did or not. The CHAIRMAN. Did you know that MacGuire saw Butler when be returned from Europe in 1934?