Page:Report from the Select Committee of the House of Lords, appointed to inquire into the present state of the Islands of New Zealand.pdf/63

 Rh about One Acre and One Half of an Acre to Two Acres. The preceding Sketch was taken from the Ship’s Deck while lying off the First Point, the Island in the Centre of Caffea Harbour, bearing North-west.

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“Witness, jun.”

When you went into the Interior with any of the Natives did you converse with them at all with reference to the Possibility of the Land being sold to Englishmen or Europeans coming there?
 * I think that they are very glad to have us amongst them; but they are a People of that Description, that for every thing you take from them they expect Payment, or, as they term it, “Utu.” This was the only Instance, I do think, of their having given a Grant of Land.

Did they appear to you to be aware of the Nature of a Bargain?
 * Yes, quite so; in fact so much so that at this Moment I know of a large Establishment which I once possessed; it is not under my Superintendence, because I have sold it to a Trader at Poverty Bay; he frequently gives them Credit, and it is always honestly discharged. Some Traders have large Quantities of Stores in various Parts; the Ships have come in, and endeavoured to induce them to sell the Flax ordered for other Parties; but nothing on Earth would induce them to sell it to them.

You think that they are disposed to be faithful?
 * Yes; but still I think Dishonesty is rather innate.

How do you reconcile those Two Facts?
 * That they were honest in those Instances from Policy; that they felt that if they did not do so they should lose the Trade of those Persons.

Did you see much of the Missionary Establishments there?
 * No, I did not see any Missionaries at all.

You were in another Part of the Island?
 * Yes; I was deterred from going to the Eastward for Reasons already assigned.

Did you see any Lands that were in the Possession of Europeans that had been previously bought?
 * No; merely Two or Three Acres besides my own; a small Garden and a small House. But it is a notorious Fact that the Missionaries do hold very large Quantities of Land in New Zealand. I have seen Letters from them to their Friends, inviting them to come there; that they would find their most sanguine Expectations realized, describing Climate, &c. I know Two of them in New South Wales, where they have 15,000 Acres for civilizing the Aborigines; it is on the opposite Side of the River to a Farm of my own of 12,000 Acres.

Did the Natives appear to make a Distinction in speaking of Europeans who had behaved ill and those who had behaved well?
 * Quite so. I received every Attention. The Chiefs made it a Practice, when I went ashore, to give up to me their whole Establishment, and to make me as comfortable as possible; they were most hospitable.

You felt perfect Security while you were with them?
 * Yes; but I was not always satisfied, for I thought them rather treacherous. We visited a native Village where they had seen very little of White People; they suddenly left, and were about to haul up our Boat; a Girl came and told us they were about to murder us; we immediately left the Settlement. The next Day we landed again, but we were well armed, and they seemed to be aware we were not to be taken by Surprise, and they traded with us.

Was it a Village in which there had been much Intercourse with Eụropeans?
 * I should say little or none; perhaps we were the first Europeans who had visited it.

What were the Articles of Trade you obtained from thence?
 * I see in 1837, since I have been home, my Firm in Sydney, being the Agent for Parties who are cultivating in Poverty Bay large Quantities of Maize,

(123.2.)