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 And at Q. 7,239:—

"'A certain number of warders are apportioned to so many prisoners, according to a rule laid down by the Home Office—say a warder to fifteen men when building a house; building an outside wall the warder can supervise the men, but inside the house, in putting in doors, there must be a warder in each room where a prisoner is to look after him; if in building a lock wants mending in the next room, they send a man to mend the lock, but a warder must go with him; if a ceiling wants whitewashing in the adjoining room, another man and another warder must go, or you must wait for the first man and the first warder; the more complicated and the more skilled the work is, the practical details of the prison prevent its being done.'"

And at Q. 7,213-20 the rule is—

"'That the warder in charge of a party should be a discipline officer only. If the officer was competent and was permitted to direct the entire work of the party, it could be in many cases a very considerable advantage. &hellip; But I have understood that warders have been fined for giving detailed directions about the work. &hellip; We have a foreman of works who supervises the outdoor men, and may give instructions to the individual warders; but until the foreman comes round again, a warder cannot send a man off like a freeman to tell the foreman he is wanted.'"

Of like effect is the testimony of Mr. Wood, Superintending Engineer at Portsmouth, in Q. 7,869.

Mr. Bernays therefore thinks that notwithstanding the versatility of convicts as a class, they can be most economically employed in large gangs at rough works like excavations; and therefore, asked if he considers the reclamation of waste lands suitable for convict work, answers (Q. 7,205):—

"'If a prison could be made of iron, which could be taken down and put up in another place, much would be possible which would be impossible with brick and mortar prisms.'"

Questioned by Lord Kimberley as to such reclamation as the Haarlem Lake, undertaken by the Dutch government, and sold towards the expenses, he shows that as tidal work entails night work, the convicts could not be thus employed without infringing ordinary prison routine; but to the question if he thinks it impossible so to organize a prison that convicts could be employed on a large scale in banking out the sea, replies (Q. 7,212):—

"'I have no hesitation in saying a great change might be made in the organization of a prison, which would naturally affect the productiveness of convict labour.'"

And in Q. 7,243 concludes:—

"'I have the greatest faith many work being possible by convict labour, and that with proper regulations a great deal could be done. Except as to its commercial value, I have perfect faith in it. I have seen no place where so much permanent and profitable skilled work has been done as at Chatham.'"

This rigidity of discipline aims at security against escape and prevention of contamination. As to this last there was a mass of evidence—witnesses, and especially the chaplains, alleging that in spite of the rule of silence, the prisoners could communicate during associated work; and behind the backs of the warders, or in their presence, without moving the lips, vile words, and criminal teachings passed,