Page:Notes and Queries - Series 9 - Volume 2.djvu/59

 9* s. ii. JULY 16,

NOTES AND QUERIES.

51

suppose it to be, and I hear it now and again in connexion with still-births. " It was dead stillborn," and " It died stillborn," I heard not long ago in connexion with a police case. It is nonsense, to be sure, but none the less a form of expression to which many besides the less educated cling. It means death in the act of being born. THOS. RATCLIFFE.

Worksop.

BROTHERS BEARING THE SAME CHRISTIAN NAME (9 th S. i. 446). I do not think that the practice of giving two brothers the same Christian name was very uncommon in by- past times. I have come across many examples of it, but, I am sorry to say, have noted but few of them.

It is stated in the ' Monasticon ' that "Ralph de Tony the younger, the grandson of Roger de Tony, the Conqueror's standard-bearer, had two wives, Alice and Margaret, by each of whom he had a son named Roger. Vol. iv. p. 299.

One of these sons but which, it seems, is not certainly known was the founder of a nunnery at Flamstead, in Hertfordshire.

The will of Thomas Malory, of Papworth, in Huntingdonshire, dated in 1469, whom some have surmised to have been the same person as he who wrote of the death of Arthur, men- tions John, his son and heir, and "John filius meus junior" (Athenaeum, 11 Sept., 1897, p. 354).

John Leland, the antiquary, who died in 1552, had a brother known as John Leland, senior (' Diet. National Biography ' sub nom.).

John Walgrave the elder, of Helpringham, Lincolnshire, who made his will in 1542, made certain bequests to " John my sone the eld." and to " John my sone ye young."

Thomas Reade, of Calcott, in Huntingdon- shire, whose will was executed in 1595, men- tions " my daughter Katheryn the younger," and "my eldest daughter Katheryne," who had become the wife of Henry Brownyng.

Sir George Manners, a member of the ducal family of Rutland, who died in 1623, had a younger brother of the same name (Pro- ceedings of Society of Antiquaries, 11 June, 1874, p. 2471

Unless there be some misprint or other mistake, the late Rev. George Oliver fur- nishes us with what may be regarded as a recent instance, as he makes a record of Charles Waterton, S.J., who was a younger brother of Charles Waterton, of Walton Hall, Esq. This second Charles is stated to have died at Stonyhurst in 1852 ('Collections illus- trative of History of Catholic Religion in Cornwall,' &c., p. 433).

The following further references may be worth giving. I am sorry to say that I have

not the volumes at hand for consulta- tion : Meadows Cowper, ' Holy Cross, Can- terbury,' p. 12; Cruise, 'Thomas a Kempis,' pp. 194, 200; Gillow, 'Bibliographical Diet, of English Catholics,' vol. iii. p. 328*.

Though not directly relating to the subject, as these were not Christian names, it may be well to note that Herod the Great had two sons called Philip, two Phasael, and two Herod (Fouard, ' The Christ, the Son of God,' English translation, i. 385).

I have often been asked why Christian names have been duplicated in this fashion, but have not hitherto been able to give a satisfactory answer. It has been suggested by others that in former times it was cus- tomary to give the babe the name of its god- father. If this were so which has not, so far as I know, been demonstrated it fully accounts for the occurrence of the same Christian name more than once among the children of the same parents.

EDWARD PEACOCK.

An almost exact parallel to the instances quoted is to be found in the 'Placitorum Abbreviatio,' p. 214. It is there recorded that in A.D. 1288 Johannes de Bosco ( = de Bois = de Boys), son of Johannes de Bosco and Eduse de Crull, surrendered all his father's lands in county Lincoln to his half-brother Johannes de Bosco, son of Johannes de Bosco and Juliana Gunnesse. The father of the two Johns above mentioned was doubtless the Sire John du Boys of the Counte Nichole ( = county of Lincoln) whose name and arms are recorded in the Roll of the Bannerets of England compiled in the early part of the reign of Edward I. (circa A.D. 1280) ; see p. 410 et seq. of vol. xxi. of Parliamentary Writs in the British Museum. His father, again, was almost certainly the Johannes de Bosco, of Coningsby, county Lincoln, to whom, in A.D. 1253, was granted free warren in that manor (see ' Calendarium Rotulorum Cartarum,' p. 81), and hence doubtless arose his wish to bestow on each of his sons, by his two wives, the same patronymic.

The name John was a favourite name in this family, and the pedigree-hunter often, therefore, finds himself at fault. A double scent like the above, however, when dis- covered, sometimes solves the difficulty.

HENRY S. BOYS.

Hullbrook, Guildford.

This was very common, although an out- of-the-way subject. The most noticeable case I have met with was in the Paston family. John Paston, the letter - writer, who died 1466, ha.d. two sons of the same na.me: I. Sir