Page:Notes and Queries - Series 11 - Volume 1.djvu/66

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NOTES AND QUERIES. [ii s. i. JAX. is, 1910.

being thin and transparent. Those with clear wavy transparency like amber fetched a better price. The making of these spoons was quite an art, and most of the sellers were of the border gipsy tribes who had their head-quarters at the village of Yetholm, near Kelso. A lad showing much promise was commonly referred to as one who would " either make a spoon or spoil a horn."

ANDREW HOPE. Exeter.

See W. Carew Hazlitt's ' English Pro- verbs,' 2nd ed., 1882, p. 440 :

"To make a spoon or spoil a horn, i.e., So-and-so is qualified to discharge a duty, or, afc all events, to make a great mistake in it. At the time when spoons were formed of horn, the horn was spoiled unless great care was bestowed in the earlier processes."

Horn spoons are not, I think, quite obsolete, e.g. salad spoons.

ROBERT PIERPOINT.

The meaning of the proverb is that a man will be either very successful or a failure. In the * English Dialect Dictionary ? ' there are two quotations (s.v. "spoon 5 ') illustrating the use of the proverb. One is from Renfrew :

It 's riae joke the takin' o' a wife : " It 's mak' a spoon or spoil a horn," As lang as ye 're in life.

Barr's' Poems,' 1861, 157.

The other is from Selkirk : " Cliffy Mackay will either mak'- a speen or spill a guid horn" (Hogg's 'Tales, 4 1838, 262, ed. 1866). J HOLDEN MACMICHAEL.

[MR. T. RATCLIFFE and MR. W. SCOTT also thanked for replies.]

" oo n : HOW PRONOUNCED (11 S. i. 10). One wonders where the " philological trea- tises n that fail to explain this are to be found. They must be considerably behind the age.

I quote from the first edition of my ' Principles of English Etymology,' p. 49, the following :

"We see, then, that as far as the written

symbol is concerned, the Anglo-Saxon 6 has been

replaced by oo, while the sound indicated has shitted from 6 to ii. The period at which this shifting took place seems to have been between 1550 and 1650 ; see Sweet, ' English Sounds,' p. 56."

This appeared in 1887, nearly twenty- three years ago. The various vowel -changes are all explained, one by one, at great length, with many examples.

Again, at p. 21 I remark :

"The vowel-sounds expressed by our written symbols now differ from those of every nation in Europe," &c.

Those who desire a shorter and easier book on this subject may find what they want in my ' Primer of English Philology, ? fourth edition, 1904.

The standard " philological treatises " are, of course, those by Dr. Sweet. His ' History of English Sounds ' appeared in 1888 ; and his ' New English Grammar, Logical and Historical, ? is thoroughly scientific.

WALTER W. SKEAT.

The letters oo were originally pronounced as 6 (as in " vote ? '), but about the period 1550-1650 the vowel was " moved up to the high position," as Dr. Sweet expresses it,, and became u. The symbol oo remained un- changed, and thus acquired a new value. In some words we even use single o for the new sound, especially in proper names. Bohun and Mohun are Boon and Moon ; De Rohan and De Ros are De Roohan and De Roos ; Pole-Carew is Pool-Carey ; the title Mahon is Mahoon ; the Irish names Poer and Keon are Pooer and Kewn, &c.

The movement of the vowel 6 towards u took place also in German, but the Germans have changed the spelling with it. Thus English hoof is German H uf. STUDENT asks if any other language uses oo to express the u sound. The nearest approach to it is Polish, in which the original o is now pronounced like our oo. The only differ- ence is that Poles indicate the length of the vowel by an acute accent, whereas we mark it by doubling, otherwise the phenomenon is the same. The Polish word for " city " is grod, but it rimes with " rude,'* not with " rode." JAS. PLATT, Jun.

STEAMERS IN 1801 AND 1818 (10 S. xii. 429). C. W. K. would do well to peruse the section devoted to ' The Steamer ' in that popular, but informing work Croal's ' Travelling Past and Present,' otherwise ' A Book about Travelling Past and Present,' by Thomas A. Croal, illustrated, cr. 8vo, published by Nimmo, 1877. W. McM.

' N. & Q. ? : LOST REFERENCE (11 S. i. 9). W. y McM. will find the reference he requires in 3 S. iii. 415.

ETHEL M. TURNER. Esmond, Eghani. [MR. W. SCOTT also supplies the reference.]

LADY WORSLEY (10 S. xii. 409 ; 11 S. i. 14). The imaginary epitaph upon Lady Worsley given by MR. BLEACKLEY is not in my copy of ' The Abbey of Kilkhampton,' 1780, pp. 75. From what edition does MR. BLEACKLEY quote ? C. H. G.