Page:New Zealand Parliament Hansard 2021-03-09.pdf/12

1158 DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT): Which countries, and what else do they use it for?

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response): I haven’t got a list of all of that in front of me. I’m happy to provide the member with that. We do not—

Hon Member: Making it up.

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: —collect all of that information.

SPEAKER: Order! Who interjected that? Who made that interjection? Nick Smith will leave the House.

Hon Dr Nick Smith withdrew from the Chamber.

DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT): Thank you, Mr Speaker. There we have it again. The Minister tries to deflect and say other countries are somehow using or misusing citizens’ data because they have better contact tracing. He can’t say if the NZ COVID Tracer app that good, law-abiding New Zealanders are scanning in with each day was actually useful for this outbreak, but he can cast aspersions on other countries that they are doing scurrilous things with their citizens’ data, and we ask him to name a country and he can’t do it. But can I ask the Minister: does the Government have any plans to change the rules or improve the use of the NZ COVID Tracer app after this outbreak, given the answer he just gave—that they don’t know if it was actually useful for tracing anyone in this outbreak?

SPEAKER: The Minister can handle that as part of his reply now.

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response): Of course, I am well known for my skills in—

David Seymour: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I recognise that this is new to the House. My reading of the Standing Orders is that the allocation in Appendix A is five minutes, so I still have 25 seconds on the clock. You’re cutting it short for what reason?

SPEAKER: Yes, I’m not cutting it short at all. What the Standing Orders say is that the Speaker may extend the member’s time to allow for the answers. I have substantially extended the member’s time.

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I am well known for my skills in diplomacy, but it is not for me to provide a commentary on what other countries are doing with their COVID tracer apps or name and shame them. The member can read the newspaper himself if he wishes to find out what other countries are doing around that. In terms of encouraging uptake of the COVID Tracer app, yes, that is something that we are looking at. One of the things the member might like to know when it comes to his sudden desire for the Government to be putting in place more compulsory measures, which somewhat highlights the identity crisis of the ACT Party at the moment, is that the Apple/Google exposure notification framework is provided to us to use on the basis that it cannot be made compulsory.

DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT): Point of order. I don’t wish to take up the House’s time unnecessarily, but I’m just reflecting on this as this new convention of questions to ministerial statements evolves: if the Minister can take up the time of the member with the call, the incentive to ask questions and yield the floor becomes very weak, and I worry that the whole concept which we’re developing—and which I think you strongly support, Mr Speaker—might collapse. I just ask you to reflect on whether in fact the interpretation shouldn’t be that the member with the floor has five minutes.

SPEAKER: Well, if the member had come to the Standing Orders Committee, he would have heard the discussion, which made it very clear, as the report does, that it is discretionary.

DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT): Point of order. I actually do recall that discussion, and I don’t think comments like the one you just made are helpful for the standing of your Chair or for the standing of this House.