Page:MALAYSIA BILL RHODESIA AND NYASALAND BILL (2) (Hansard, 11 Juli 1963).djvu/30

 should be done next until that report has been received from the Governor of Northern Rhodesia.

My hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice raised the question of Barotseland. All I can tell him about that is that the Litunga will be seeing my right hon. Friend next week to discuss the problems of Barotseland. It is not correct to say that the elections will take place while the Litunga is away. They are timed for a period after he will have returned to his territory.

Another topic which has engaged the attention of many speakers, including the hon. Member for Dundee, East, is the question of the public service and the future of those who are in it. The White Paper shows, and I assure the House, that the Government realise the very great importance of this problem. There are three principal points to be dealt with. First, there is the need to absorb as many as possible of those who are at present engaged in the service. Secondly, there is need for fair terminal arrangements to be made for those who cannot be absorbed or who leave the service. Thirdly, there is the need to secure the discharge of the obligation to both past civil servants and those who may go out in the future in respect of their pensions. I obviously cannot enlarge at this stage on how this will be done, because this is one of the problems which are for discussion and settlement in the meetings which are to take place in the future.

Mr. Turton I hope that my right hon. and learned Friend will remember the fourth point, which was the most important, namely, whether there is to be compulsory transfer.

The Attorney-General I have not overlooked that. It is dealt with in the White Paper upon the basis that the Federation has reserved its position and this is one of the points that must be settled and is an important point for future discussion. As an earnest of the Government's appreciation of the importance of this topic, it is the very first subject which they will tackle and, as my right hon. Friend told the House, a start is being made immediately this next week with the discussion of this in Central Africa itself.

A great many other points have been raised, but I have time to refer to only one or two more. The hon. Member for Barnsley (Mr. Mason) asked about grants to Nyasaland in the future. All I can say on this aspect is that they will be considered sympathetically. No decision has been taken on them as to the extent or nature of the commitment by this country.

The hon. Member for Devon, North (Mr. Thorpe) mentioned the World Bank. The World Bank, we are glad to say, approached Her Majesty's Government and offered to co-operate and to give any help it could in economic developments in the future of the territories. I am sure that all hon. Members will wish to join with the Government in welcoming this generous offer of assistance and co-operation made on behalf of the World Bank which we naturally have accepted.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton asked why there was no Financial Resolution to deal with the pensions and liability for pensions. As the House will see from the White Paper, this matter arises among the debts and liabilities and must be dealt with as such and as part of that problem. In our view, if it is dealt with as my right hon. Friend has said—as part of our general policies of aid to these Commonwealth countries—there will be no need for legislation to be brought before the House and it can be dealt with under the existing powers.

No one can rejoice—if they do, then only a few—at the dissolution of a marriage, a partnership or an association of nations or people which set out with high hopes and which has foundered. I agree entirely with the right hon. Member for Middlesbrough, East (Mr. Bottomley) that the fragmentation we have seen in this case, and in respect of the West Indies, is contrary to the movement of history at this time. In general, peoples and nations are drawing closer together and are co-operating more. With the facilities we have for inter-communication and travel it is natural that they should do so.