Page:MALAYSIA BILL RHODESIA AND NYASALAND BILL (2) (Hansard, 11 Juli 1963).djvu/26

 Perhaps the same argument might apply to some of the other categories of the defence forces. I do not know enough about the details to argue the matter, but it is in the economic interests of all three territories to have as few arms as possible, and it is certainly in the political interests of everyone, both inside and outside the territories—in view of the racial and other tensions in the area—that there should be as few arms as possible in the hands of these territories as a result of the dissolution of the Federation.

Many hon. Members have advocated arrangements for common services to replace the Federation in as many fields as possible. Mention has been made of currency, Kariba and communications. We were particularly glad to see that the right hon. Gentleman had been able to obtain the co-operation of the World Bank in tackling these problems. I echo the words of a number of hon. Members who have expresesd the hope that out of the wreckage we shall be able to salvage the university, because if the countries of Africa need one thing more than anything else it is educational equipment.

The hon. Member for Lancaster was quite right to utter a cautionary word, and to say that we should not plunge into schemes of economic co-operation only to see them meet the same sort of disaster that the scheme for political federation has met. There are some real difficulties. I suspect that the right hon. Gentleman is going to find that just as agreement on the economic benefits of federation required a great deal of prior 1542 political consent, equally, in order to get real co-operation about common services, we shall have to get the political consent of the parties concerned.

Northern Rhodesia's co-operation will largely depend upon the assurance of a fairly speedy constitutional advance. Hon. Members on this side were glad to hear from the right hon. Gentleman that already the Governor has opened talks with the political parties in Northern Rhodesia. The attitude of both Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland to economic co-operation will undoubtedly depend upon what improvements can be obtained in the political rights of the Africans in Southern Rhodesia, about which I shall say a few words in a moment.

First, I want to refer to Nyasaland, because many hon. Members on both sides of the House have expressed anxiety about what is happening there. The House will have been relieved by what the First Secretary reported from the Governor about the general state of law and order. What he said when he came back from Victoria Falls was confirmed by an interesting letter in The Times today from Mrs. Margaret Ruxton, a well known and well respected member of the European community in Blantyre. Any acts of intimidation that have occurred in Nyasaland are to be deplored, but what is important is to find out how representative they are. I can only say that when I was there a year ago what struck me was the tremendously good relations that existed between African politicians and officials and the members of the European and Asian communities.

It is true that there are African extremists in Nyasaland, as there are white extremists. I also found some times an attitude of personal intolerance that was repugnant to me, but the general atmosphere was a good one, especially in view of the fairly recent past in Nyasaland, with the complete breakdown of communication between the Communities which resulted in the sending of the Devlin Commission. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Wednesbury (Mr. Stonehouse) is right in saying that it is a sympathetic and imaginative approach to the whole history and background of these difficulties that is likely to produce the result that most hon. Members seek.

Inevitably, many speeches from both sides have been about Southern Rhodesia. The First Secretary deserves particular credit for having been able to separate the dissolution of the Federation from the question of independence for Southern Rhodesia—if, in fact, he did succeed in separating them, because we were puzzled and disturbed by the questions asked by his noble Friend the Member for Hertford (Lord Balniel), who made a notable speech. The hon. Member said that he suspected—he put it no higher than that—that in some of the meetings with Mr. Field at Victoria Falls secret pledges may have been given. Well, if the hon. Member opposite feels suspicious, he will understand that we feel even more deeply disturbed. Because we recollect the sad story of the earlier secret pledges given to the original negotiators of the Federation scheme. It would be immensely helpful to the House, and clear the air elsewhere,