Page:MALAYSIA BILL RHODESIA AND NYASALAND BILL (2) (Hansard, 11 Juli 1963).djvu/22

 over a series of years. This division between races must be got rid of. Racial discrimination must be outlawed.

There could be modification of the franchise to allow for a greater number of African seats on the upper roll so as to overcome the problem which is known as the blocking third; in other words, there must be voting by two-thirds of the assembly to change the Assembly's composition. Obviously, the Africans fear that they cannot counter this unless they have a strength of one-third plus one member in the House.

It would be a good example of democracy and a good apprenticeship in the use of the vote to extend the lower roll as widely as possible. These things could, and should, be done. I wonder whether they have been put in this way to Southern Rhodesia, and if so, what reply has been received. I believe that most people in this country think that the Southern Rhodesians should accept such terms, either now, or, perhaps, in order that they may fulfil the election pledges, immediately after independence. If that were to happen then I believe that there would be overwhelming support on this side of the House and in the country for immediate independence for Southern Rhodesia.

Let me come for a moment to what is the choice facing Southern Rhodesia. One side of the story has already been made clear in the excellently delivered speech of my noble Friend the Member for Hertford (Lord Balniel), but it is only one side, and I think that the House has to consider the other side, too. The Southern Rhodesians may say to themselves that democracy according to Western practice is one man one vote, but is there any country in Africa which practises that democracy? They may ask themselves what has happened in other African countries, for instance Ghana, or the Congo—or even, perhaps, Tanganyika which is still very newly independent, and for which we had high hopes. They may say to themselves,"What about the United Nations?" The majority who in the United Nations now control the political life of the United Nations are basically the Afro-Asian States, and they are the smaller States, and they decide the policy because they are the majority, and the older, bigger States—if hon. Members like, the white States—have to pay for the implementation of that policy.

How long is that going on for? The Southern Rhodesians may ask that and they may ask themselves what happened in Europe in the 'thirties when there were Members of this House and people in this country who did not want to challenge Hitler because they thought that he would go the way they hoped, and there was the policy called"appeasement", but Hitler became a menace and a dictator, and then the people of this country and others banded together to fight him. The Southern Rhodesians may say,"What about Pan-African pressures?" and draw a parallel. I come to where the hon. Member for Wednesbury left off, and I would say that there is a danger, about which the Southern Rhodesians may ask themselves, of the world being divided along racial lines. That is a terrible thought. One hopes that it is not going to happen, and one prays God that it does not happen, but if it does then the survival of the white men in Southern Africa is vital to the white race.

Is 75 per cent. of the free world's gold supply to be given into Pan-African hands? I wonder whether the hon. Member for Wednesbury, or indeed, the hon. Member for Devon, North (Mr. Thorpe) who spoke for the Liberal Party would face up to that. What do they think would be the future of the western world under the pressure of the Pan-Africans, if they were given into on all these matters, no matter how friendly they may appear to be now?

Mr. Stonehouse Surely the hon. Member will agree that the white man's position in Nairobi is more secure now under Jomo Kenyatta than it was in the Mau Mau years, and more secure in Tanganyika now than it would have been if we had not allowed that country political advance? Therefore, I would say that the white man will be more secure in Africa when there is political advance.

Mr. Wall History will prove whether the hon. Gentleman is right or not. I do not think that there are many white people in Nairobi or Kenya who will agree with him. I hope he is right, but I fear that history will prove him wrong.

I would say that now the Conservative Party is facing two fundamentals. The first is the question of the independence of Southern Rhodesia on terms which guarantee the advancement of the Africans to have their full share in the