Page:MALAYSIA BILL RHODESIA AND NYASALAND BILL (1) (Hansard, 11 Juli 1963).djvu/4

 they think should rightly be transferred to them.

I think that it was, perhaps, satisfactory that we were able to make so much progress at the Falls on the question of the future of the defence forces, not only from the point of view of the importance of the defence forces but also in order to give satisfaction to those serving in the forces to know what their future was likely to be—because one has only to be in Central Africa to realise the intense anxiety of every one as to their own future and the future of their own country.

I therefore summoned a meeting of heads of delegations, outside the conference, aided by the Minister of Defence of the Federation, Sir Malcolm Barrow—to whose co-operation I should like to pay a tribute—and we reached an agreement which the conference endorsed. The conference agreed that when the Federal Government ceased to exercise responsibility for defence, the position in regard to the operation and control of forces should revert to that which obtained before 1953, although the Federal forces would have to be partitioned between the three territories.

It will initially simply be a question of transfer to two Commands—that is, to that of the Government of Southern Rhodesia and that of Her Majesty's Government in the Northern Territories. The reason for that is quite clear. At the present time there is a Protectorate status, and therefore the command reverts to Her Majesty's Government in the Northern Territories while that status lasts.

In most cases, units will passunder the control of either Southern Rhodesia or Britain according to their present dispositions, that is to say, according to where they are placed, and recruited, and so forth. There would be some agreed exceptions to this, which would be announced as soon as possible. Arrangements would also have to be worked out to permit members of the forces to declare in which territory they wished to serve in future. That was included by agreement of all Governments to give satisfaction and confidence to the members of the forces themselves.

The physical assets of the forces will, in general, remain with their present units, although the value of the assets will fall to be dealt with in the general agreement, to which I have earlier referred, for the apportionment of Federal assets and liabilities, including the public debt.

I think that this was a satisfactory arrangement. It means that those normally connected with Northern Rhodesia will go back to Northern Rhodesia; that the battalion recruited in Nyasaland will go back to Nyasaland, and that the other portion of the defence force and air force will accrue to Southern Rhodesia. It was agreed that we should not submit this matter to the post-conference machinery; that it was so important that future consultation should be between the Governments concerned. All this is referred to in the Bill, and I think that all this is apposite in dealing with the Bill.

I will now give a short description of what we decided about citizenship, to which the inhabitants out there attach particular importance. It was agreed, again by a sub-committee working outside the conference, that when the Federation was dissolved, Federal citizens—who are, of course, British subjects—ought not to lose that status. A separate citizenship for each of the territories would eventually be created, and there should be agreement on a scheme under which a Federal citizen would, by law, become a citizen of the territory to which he belongs, subject to his being given an option, in suitable cases, to choose the territory whose citizenship he prefers.

This took us a certain way and further discussions will have to continue now about the establishment of the citizenship of each individual territory. Judging by my years of experience of this at the Home Office I think that it will take a little time to work out. As for the Federal Supreme Court, the judiciary, the conference noted that it will come to an end with the dissolution of the Federation and we agreed that the territorial Governments should themselves consider the question of a new Court of Appeal.

I repeat what I said earlier, that we could not expect on any of these difficult subjects to reach final conclusions in so short a time, but I feel quite convinced that the scope of the White Paper, which covers a great many subjects, and the