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 because Brunei will still be in Treaty relations and will still be a Protected State of Great Britain, and presumably Her Majesty's Government will have some responsibility for external defence and internal security. But that is a matter upon which I shall not expand at this moment. We must, however, bear in mind that we are not at this moment leaving all these problems in the hands of the new Malaysia. This is one that will remain with us.

The great question mark in this part of the world is Indonesia. In fact, President Sukarno seems to be following the example of a predecessor of his in an inland sea, Mussolini; because he has now described what used to be called the Indian Ocean as the "Indonesian Ocean". It is rather bold of him to call it the Indonesian Ocean. He is reputed to be extremely angry about Malaysia on two grounds; first, because he did not believe it would come into being and that the Governments concerned would agree to it; and, secondly, because he has to placate his Communist wing—and there are quite large numbers of Communists in Indonesia. I trust that Indonesia will not do anything foolish but will retain friendly relations with Malaysia. It would be most unfortunate if any trouble were to be caused in that part of the world. At the same time, I am quite sure that the new Malaysia cannot do other than take steps to protect themselves, in view of the sort of speeches made by President Sukarno and others.

This means that, so far as Borneo is concerned, there must be adequate forces guarding the very long frontiers, all of which go through jungles and across mountains tops. That is best done—and I am glad to see that the new Malaysia is prepared to do it—by irregular forces. The Iban and other tribes of Borneo make extremely good irregular troops, and it will be cheaper, and far more efficient, to enlist forces of this kind to contend with the long frontiers that run down the whole length of this enormous Island of Borneo.

As to the other part of Malaysia, it will have to retain light naval forces and perhaps add to them, and also an Air Force. We must remember that in Malaysia there is part of the Commonwealth Brigade Reserve, so that altogether there will be quite a satisfactory number of forces of the conventional type, though it is unfortunate that a new venture like this should have to spend an appreciable part of its income on defence when there are so many other items of development and social service on which I am sure they would rather spend the money. I think it would be highly dangerous to neglect altogether the necessity of having forces in this area of a kind adequate to secure its defence. Recently off the North of Borneo there has been a certain amount of piracy. The pirates have been coming from various places, which there is no need to name at the moment, and, though not on a large scale, they have been a bit of a pest. The best means of combating this piracy are light naval forces and aircraft to spot the pirates as they leave their lairs to prey on the traffic in the North Borneo area.

On behalf of my Party and on my own behalf, I most sincerely wish this wonderful new venture every possible success. Before I conclude, I would express my thanks and my Party's thanks to the noble Marquess for the efforts he has put in, both in South-East Asia and here, to bring this about, and also to the staff of the Colonial Office, who have worked extremely hard in this field. I hope within the next six months, God willing, that my wife and I will be making an extensive tour of the Federation and Borneo, and it will be a great joy to us to go back again to Penang, where we spent the first years of our married life over thirty years ago, and meet many old friends, both in Penang and elsewhere in the Federation. It is a lovely land, with a most interesting and remarkable people, and I am very proud to have been able to speak to-day in your Lordships' House and commend this Bill to your Lordships.

2.28 p.m.

THE LORD BISHOP OF LEICESTER My Lords, I am quite sure that your Lordships would have wished that any words from this Bench to-day might have come from my right reverend friend the Lord Bishop of Birmingham, who has such wide experience of this area, but in his quite unavoidable absence I am afraid your Lordships will have to endure a few words from me. I feel I must apologise to the House for addressing it no fewer than three times on varied subjects about which my knowledge is also very varied.