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 on 1 April. This is because when Federal Agents Katie Thelning and Rebecca Cleaves reported for duty on 1 April at 9:45am, they were notified by Sergeant Sherring "that there was a sensitive matter pertaining to a female who was attached to Minister Reynolds office" and Ms Cleaves was provided with a mobile contact number (T1386.23–25; T1402.36–38). How that information came to Sergeant Sherring is unclear on the evidence.

663 Ms Higgins now describes the meeting with the Minister, also attended by Ms Brown, that preceded her meeting with the AFP on that day as "adversarial" (T783.33–34). When pressed, this was said to be because: (a) it was hosted in the same room as the incident had occurred; and (b) Senator Reynolds was saying "these are things that women go through", being evidence evidently meant to convey the impression, as Network Ten submits, that the Minister "made her feel like she was trying to minimise what had occurred" (T783.38–46).

664 As to (a), I accept it makes sense, given what happened to her in the Ministerial private office; that she would have felt distress in the meeting being held around a small table, not far from the couch (however, I also accept the evidence of Ms Brown, however unfortunate, that she had not appreciated that Ms Higgins' statement "I remember him on top of me" was a reference to them being on the Minister's couch, and if she had been cognisant of this fact, she would have arranged the meeting to be held in another location). The meeting, of course, consisted mostly of Senator Reynolds talking to Ms Higgins (T664.4–11).

665 As to (b), contrary to the impression sought to be conveyed by Ms Higgins in selecting the words she used in the witness box, I have no doubt as to the correctness of Ms Brown's recollection (confirmed by the contemporaneous materials and the content of other representations made to and by Ms Higgins at around this time), that no minimisation of Ms Higgins' experience was attempted and, to the contrary, attempts were made to support and reassure Ms Higgins and, in particular, to encourage her to report her account to the AFP. More specifically, consistently with the contemporaneous record and Ms Brown's evidence, I find that during the meeting:


 * (1) the Minister explained the purpose of the meeting was to check on Ms Higgins' welfare; that she did not "know exactly what happened but something doesn't seem right" and "what you choose to do we will support"; and suggested counselling and talking to the EAP, which Ms Brown noted was an independent support process;

Lehrmann v Network Ten Pty Limited (Trial Judgment) [2024] FCA 369