Page:Kissinger's Trip (2) - November 25-29, 1974(Gerald Ford Library)(1553935).pdf/37

 -13- : They have increased their numbers, but according to our observations -- we may be wrong -- in each Middle East crisis their navy manuevered [sic] with very great clumsiness and we judge they would be a very easy target. We thought their panicky behavior in each crisis suggested that this is true.


 * But no matter what, in the past the Soviet Union had no naval forces in the Mediterranean or Indian Oceans and their activities were confined very close to their Pacific shores. But now they go everywhere, even Latin America. During the subcontinent crisis their vessels moved with greater speed than yours.


 * They are after ours.


 * But anyway, that time your naval vessels moved too slowly.


 * Be that as it may, but in conventional land strength, we do not underestimate the Soviet Union. They are very strong in conventional land strength. In naval strength they are absolutely no match for us. We have hysterical admirals who, when they want money, say that no matter what country we are in war against, including Switzerland, that we are going to lose. But in reality, the only way the Soviet Union could hurt our fleet in the Mediterranean is with their land-based aircraft. And if they did that, that would be a general nuclear war. But if it is a naval battle, our carriers can strike theirs with so much greater distance and force, that there is absolutely no possibility for them to survive.


 * But from our discussions with some Europeans, they seem much more worried than you -- not just on naval forces but on the whole question of conventional forces.


 * On the question of conventional forces, everyone has reason to worry. On the question of naval forces, I believe we are far superior.


 * But the Soviet Union develops itself with greater speed. If the Soviet Union launches a war, it might not be a nuclear war; it might quite possibly be a conventional war. Under this condition, conventional weapons should not be neglected.


 * I completely agree. That is a problem the western countries do have, not in naval forces but ground conventional forces. But you will notice that we have increased the number of our divisions recently. But it is a problem. There is no question.