Page:Impeachment of Donald J. Trump, President of the United States — Report of the Committee on the Judiciary, House of Representatives.pdf/303

 A. Yes. I would say it this way: It was I think in the U.S. interest for the information that was reaching the President to be accurate and fresh and coming from the right people. And if some of what Mr. Giuliani believed or heard from, for instance, the former [Ukrainian] Prosecutor General Lutsenko was self-serving, inaccurate, wrong, et cetera, I think correcting that perception that he has is important, because to the extent that the President does hear from him, as he would, you don't want this dissonant information reaching the President.

In an interview with Bloomberg, Yermak explained that he sought to engage with Mayor Giuliani to "dispel the notion that the new Ukraine government was corrupt." Yermak said the Zelensky regime was "surprised" that Mayor Giuliani believed them to be "enemies of the U.S." and they sought to ask Mayor Giuliani directly why he believed that. Yermak recounted how, before his engaged with Mayor Giuliani, he sought bipartisan feedback from Congress about this approach. He said that he spoke with "the top national security advisers to the minority and majority leaders in both the U.S. House and Senate" and told them that "he planned to talk to [Mayor] Giuliani to explain the nation's reform agenda and to urge him not to communicate with Ukraine through the media." Yermak recalled, "Everyone said: 'good idea.'"

7. The Ukrainian government understood that Mayor Giuliani was not speaking on behalf of President Trump.

Ambassador Volker was the chief interlocutor with the Ukrainian government. He described himself as someone who had the Ukrainian government's trust and who offered them counsel on how to address the negative narrative about Ukrainian corruption. Ambassador Volker testified that the Ukrainian government did not view Mayor Giuliani as President Trump's "agent" on whose behalf he spoke. Instead, the Ukrainians saw Mayor Giuliani as a one-way method for conveying information to President Trump about President Zelensky's commitment to reform.

Under examination by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff in his closed-door deposition, Ambassador Volker was resolute that the Ukrainian government saw Mayor Giuliani as someone who "had the President's ear," not someone who spoke for the President. He explained:

Q. You understood that the Ukrainians recognized that Rudy Giuliani represented the President, that he was an agent of the President, that 74