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Rh about it. And eventually the Journal lost interest in that subject. And I was frustrated. And with the change of ownership --

Anyway, that was where I left my journalism career. So hadn't paid much attention to it. And now, all of a sudden, all these issues that were at the end of my journalism career came back, and I became somewhat consumed with them again, and I began reading court cases involving Russian espionage in the United States.

I went over the case, the case of the 10 illegals. And an interesting aspect of that case is that one of the people who was targeted was 's -- one of her big donors was -- seemed to be the Russians' target in that case. And another aspect of the case was a guy who was trying to get a job at the. And it suggested that there was, you know, a pretty elaborate attempt by the Russians to infiltrate our softer target institutions.

You know, instead of, you know, breaking into the CIA, you are breaking into, you know, places where, you know, an open society leaves open.

So anyway, in the course of reading up on my espionage cases, I found a case involving a guy named, Evgeny or Eugene, who worked for, I think, it was and he was arrested as an illegal Russian intelligence agent. And then in the prosecution, they identified people that he was trying to recruit. And one of the guys fit the description of Carter Page. And so eventually, you know, a reporter asked Carter Page, Hey, is this you, and he said yes. And so, you know, I mean in terms of like things that have turned out to be accurate about the dossier, I mean like, okay, so this guy seems like a zero, but, in fact, you know, in espionage tradecraft, you know, you are not going to target, you know, someone with a good job and a stable family and a long work history, because UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE