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 skilled and responsible workers; and instead of ever getting to that position, instead of a wage increase in comparison with others who are recognised as skilled men, even during the abnormal period that we have been passing through, they have slipped further behind than ever they were before; in other words, they are receding from the position."

W. D. Found, an engine cleaner on the North Eastern Railway at Leeds, was next called to give evidence. He said he had been in the Company's service for seven and a half years, and was now 23 years old. He had not yet been promoted to fireman. He had friends who were fitters, and these men reached their maximum, say, at the age of 21. His rate of pay as a cleaner was 9s. 6d, a day, including war wages. He was married, and found it difficult to live on that.

George J. Greasley, a Midland Railway fireman, stationed at Leicester, said he had put in 24 years for the Company, and was now 45 years of age. He passed as a driver last January, qualifying at his own expense. Since then he had had five trips, an average of one a month. His present rate of pay was 12s. a day, whether firing or driving.

Mr. Bromley: What are your prospects of promotion as a regular driver?—Very remote. (Laughter).

If you were to be promoted to be a driver to-morrow, what age would you be when you received your maximum rate?—Fifty-three.

The witness added that he had studied at his own expense to pass the necessary examination. His was no unusual case of a man with long service without promotion. There were 20 men before him, and promotion came by seniority. There were 30 men behind him with over 20 years' service each.

Replying to Mr. Stevenson, a member of the Board, the witness said he attributed slow promotion to the existence of overtime. The men on the Midland Railway had made efforts to get the overtime question dealt with; but without success.

Sir Thomas Robinson: It seems an unreasonable thing for a