Page:Debates in the Several State Conventions, v5.djvu/577

1787.] Article 4, sect. 4. After the word "executive," were inserted the words "when the legislature cannot be. convened."

Article 5.

"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem necessary, or on the application of two thirds of the legislatures of the several states, shall propose, amendments to this Constitution, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part thereof, when the same shall have been ratified by three fourths at least of the legislatures of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress: provided, that no amendment which may be made prior to the year 1808 shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of article 1."

Mr. SHERMAN expressed his fears that three fourths of the states might be brought to do things fatal to particular states; as abolishing them altogether, or depriving them of their equality in the Senate. He thought it reasonable that the proviso in favor of the states importing slaves should be extended, so as to provide that no state should be affected in its internal police, or deprived of its equality in the Senate.

Col. MASON thought the plan of amending the Constitution exceptionable and dangerous. As the proposing of amendments is in both the modes to depend, in the first immediately, and in the second ultimately, on Congress, no amendments of the proper kind would ever be obtained by the people, if the government should become oppressive, as he verily believed would be the case.

Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS and Mr. GERRY moved to amend the article, so as to require a convention on application of two thirds of the states.

Mr. MADISON did not see why Congress would not be as much bound to propose amendments applied for by two thirds of the states, as to call a convention on the like application. He saw no objection, however, against providing for a convention for the purpose of amendments, except only that difficulties might arise as to the form, the quorum, &c., which in constitutional regulations ought to be as much as possible avoided.

The motion of GOUVERNEUR MORRIS and Mr. GERRY was agreed to, ''nem. con.''

Mr. SHERMAN moved to strike out of article 5, after "legislatures," the words, "of three fourths," and so after the word "conventions," leaving future conventions to act in this matter, like the present convention, according to circumstances.

On this motion,—

Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, ay, 3; Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, no, 7; New Hampshire, divided.

Mr. GERRY moved to strike out the words, "or by conventions in three fourths thereof." On which motion,—

Connecticut, ay, 1; New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, no, 10.

Mr. SHERMAN moved, according to his idea above expressed, to annex to the end of the article a further proviso,—