Page:Debates in the Several State Conventions, v5.djvu/548

522 The third section, "The Vice-President shall be, ex officio, president of the Senate," being then considered,—

Mr. GERRY opposed this regulation. We might as well put the President himself at the head of the legislature. The close intimacy that must subsist between the President and Vice-President makes it absolutely improper. He was against having any Vice-President.

Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS. The Vice-President then will be the first heir-apparent that ever loved his father. If there should be no Vice-President, the president of the Senate would be temporary successor, which would amount to the same thing.

Mr. SHERMAN saw no danger in the case. If the Vice-President were not to be president of the Senate, he would be without employment; and some member, by being made president, must be deprived of his vote, unless when an equal division of votes might happen in the Senate, which would be but seldom.

Mr. RANDOLPH concurred in the opposition to the clause.

Mr. WILLIAMSON observed, that such an officer as Vice-President was not wanted. He was introduced merely for the sake of a valuable mode of election, which required two to be chosen at the same time.

Col. MASON thought the office of Vice-President an encroachment on the rights of the Senate; and that it mixed too much the legislative and the executive, which, as well as the judiciary department, ought to be kept as separate as possible. He took occasion to express his dislike of any reference whatever of the power to make appointments to either branch of the legislature. On the other hand, he was averse to vest so dangerous a power in the President alone. As a method for avoiding both, he suggested that a privy council, of six members, to the President, should be established, to be chosen for six years by the Senate,—two out of the eastern, two out of the middle, and two out of the southern quarters of the Union,—and to go out in rotation, two every second year; the concurrence of the Senate to be required only in the appointment of ambassadors, and in making treaties, which are more of a legislative nature. This would prevent the constant sitting of the Senate, which he thought dangerous, as well as keep the department separate and distinct. It would also save the expense of constant sessions of the Senate. He had, he said, always considered the Senate as too unwieldy and expensive for appointing officers, especially the smallest, such as tide-waiters, &c. He had not reduced his idea to writing, but it could be easily done, if it should be found acceptable.

On the question, Shall the Vice-President be, ex officio, president of the Senate?—

New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, ay, 8; New Jersey, Maryland, no, 2; North Carolina, absent.

The other parts of the same section were then agreed to.

The fourth section, to wit,—

"The President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall have power to make treaties," &c., was then taken up.