Page:Debates in the Several State Conventions, v5.djvu/521

1787.] "The legislature shall have power to admit other states into the Union; and new states, to be formed by the division or junction of states now in the Union, with the consent of the legislature of such states."

[The first part was meant for the case of Vermont, to secure its admission.]

On the question, it passed in the negative.

New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, ay, 5; New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia, no, 6.

Dr. JOHNSON moved to insert the words, "hereafter formed, or," after the words, "shall be," in the substitute for article 17, [the more clearly to save Vermont, as being already formed into a state, from a dependence on the consent of New York for her admission.] The motion was agreed to—Delaware and Maryland only dissenting.

Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS moved to strike out the word "limits," in the substitute, and insert the word "jurisdiction." [This also was meant to guard the case of Vermont—the jurisdiction of New York not extending over Vermont, which was in the exercise of sovereignty, though Vermont was within the asserted limits of New York.]

On this question,—

New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, ay, 7; New Jersey, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, no, 4.

Mr. L. MARTIN urged the unreasonableness of forcing and guarantying the people of Virginia beyond the mountains, the western people of North Carolina and Georgia, and the people of Maine, to continue under the states now governing them, without the consent of those states to their separation. Even if they should become the majority, the majority of counties, as in Virginia, may still hold fast the dominion over them. Again, the majority may place the seat of government entirely among themselves, and for their own convenience; and still keep the injured parts of the states in subjection, under the guaranty of the general government against domestic violence. He wished Mr. Wilson had thought a little sooner of the value of political bodies. In the beginning, when the rights of the small states were in question, they were phantoms—ideal beings. Now, when the great states were to be affected, political societies were of a sacred nature He repeated and enlarged on the unreasonableness of requiring the small states to guaranty the western claims of the large ones. It was said yesterday, by Mr. Gouverneur Morris, that if the large states were to be split to pieces without their consent, their representatives here would take their leave. If the small states are to be required to guaranty them in this manner, it will be found that the representatives of other states will, with equal firmness, take their leave of the Constitution on the table.

It was moved, by Mr. L. MARTIN, to postpone the substituted article, in order to take up the following:—

"The legislature of the United States shall have power to erect new states within as well as without the territory claimed by the several states, or either of them, and