Page:Debates in the Several State Conventions, v5.djvu/492

466 evidently a rational concern, and ought to be provided for in the national Constitution.

Mr. L. MARTIN was confident that the states would never give up the power over the militia; and that, if they were to do so, the militia would be less attended to by the general than by the state governments.

Mr. RANDOLPH asked what danger there could be, that the militia could be brought into the field, and made to commit suicide on themselves. This is a power that cannot, from its nature, be abused, unless, indeed, the whole mass should be corrupted. He was for trammeling the general government whenever there was danger, but here there could be none. He urged this as an essential point, observing, that the militia were every where neglected by the state legislatures, the members of which courted popularity too much to enforce a proper discipline. Leaving the appointment of officers to the states protects the people against every apprehension that could produce murmur.

On the question on Mr. Ellsworth's motion,—

Connecticut, ay; the other ten states, no.

A motion was then made to recommit the second clause, which was negatived.

On the question to agree to the first part of the clause, namely.

"To make laws for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States,"—

New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, ay. 9; Connecticut, Maryland, no, 2.

Mr. MADISON moved to amend the next part of the clause, so as to read,—

"reserving to the states, respectively, the appointment of the officers, under the rank of general officers."

Mr. SHERMAN considered this as absolutely inadmissible. He said that, if the people should be so far asleep as to allow the most influential officers of the militia to be appointed by the general government, every man of discernment would rouse them by sounding the alarm to them.

Mr. GERRY. Let us at once destroy the state governments, have an executive for life, or hereditary, and a proper Senate, and then there would be some consistency in giving full powers to the general government: but as the states are not to be abolished, he wondered at the attempts that were made to give powers inconsistent with their existence. He warned the Convention against pushing the experiment too far. Some people will support a plan of vigorous government at every risk; others, of a more democratic cast, will oppose it with equal determination, and a civil war may be produced by the conflict.

Mr. MADISON. As the greatest danger is that of disunion of the states, it Is necessary to guard against it by sufficient powers to the common government; and as the greatest danger to liberty is