Page:Debates in the Several State Conventions, v5.djvu/491

1787.] the state governments, or the national treasury; that laws for disciplining must involve penalties, and every thing necessary for enforcing penalties.

Mr. DAYTON moved to postpone the paragraph, in order to take up the following proposition:—

"To establish a uniform and general system of discipline for the militia of these states, and to make laws for organizing, arming, disciplining, and governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States; reserving to the states, respectively, the appointment of the officers, and all authority over the militia not herein given to the general government."

On the question to postpone, in favor of this proposition, it passed in the negative.

New Jersey, Maryland, Georgia, ay, 3; New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, no, 8.

Mr. ELLSWORTH and Mr. SHERMAN moved to postpone the second clause, in favor of the following:—

"To establish a uniformity of arms, exercise, and organization for the militia, and to provide for the government of them when called into the service of the United States."

The object of this proposition was, to refer the plan for the militia to the general government, but to leave the execution of it to the state governments.

Mr. LANGDON said he could not understand the jealousy expressed by some gentlemen. The general and state governments were not enemies to each other, but different institutions for the good of the people of America. As one of the people, he could say, "The national government is mine, the state government is mine. In transferring power from one to the other, I only take out of my left hand what it cannot so well use, and put it into my right hand, where it can be better used."

Mr. GERRY thought it was rather taking out of the right hand and putting it into the left. Will any man say that liberty will be as safe in the hands of eighty or a hundred men, taken from the whole continent, as in the hands of two or three hundred, taken from a single state?

Mr. DAYTON was against so absolute a uniformity. In some states there ought to be a greater proportion of cavalry than in others. In some places, rifles would be most proper; in others, muskets, &c.

Gen. PINCKNEY preferred the clause reported by the committee, extending the meaning of it to the cases of fines, &c.

Mr. MADISON. The primary object is to secure an effectual discipline of the militia. This will no more be done, if left to the states separately, than the requisitions have been hitherto paid by them. The states neglect their militia now, and, the more they are consolidated into one nation, the less each will rely on its own interior provisions for its safety, and the less prepare its militia for that purpose; in like manner, as the militia of a state would have been still more neglected than it has been, if each county had been independently charged with the care of its militia. The discipline of the militia is 59