Page:Debates in the Several State Conventions, v5.djvu/490

464 Mr. GERRY thought it essential that some explicit provision should be made on this subject; so that no pretext might remain for getting rid of the public engagements.

Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS moved, by way of amendment, to substitute,

"The legislature shall discharge the debts, and fulfil the engagements, of the United States."

It was moved to vary the amendment, by striking out "discharge the debts," and to insert "liquidate the claims;" which being negatived, the amendment moved by Mr. Gouverneur Morris was agreed to,—all the states being in the affirmative.$227$

It was moved and seconded to strike the following words out of the second clause of the report:—

"and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by the United States."

Before a question was taken, the House adjourned. 

, August 23.

In Convention.—The report of the committee of eleven, made the 21st of August, being taken up, and the following clause being under consideration, to wit:—

"To make laws for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such parts of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states, respectively, the appointment of the officers, and authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed,"—

Mr. SHERMAN moved to strike out the last member, "and authority of training," &c. He thought it unnecessary. The states will have this authority, of course, if not given up.

Mr. ELLSWORTH doubted the propriety of striking out the sentence. The reason assigned applies as well to the other reservation, of the appointment to offices. He remarked, at the same time, that the term "discipline," was of vast extent, and might be so expounded as to include all power on the subject.

Mr. KING, by way of explanation, said, that by organizing, the committee meant, proportioning the officers and men—by arming, specifying the kind, size, and calibre of arms—and by disciplining, prescribing the manual exercise, evolutions, &c.

Mr. SHERMAN withdrew his motion.

Mr. GERRY. This power in the United States, as explained, is making the states drill-sergeants. He had as lief let the citizens of Massachusetts be disarmed, as to take the command from the states, and subject them to the general legislature. It would be regarded as a system of despotism.

Mr. MADISON observed, that "arming," as explained, did not extend to furnishing arms; nor the term "disciplining," to penalties, and courts martial for enforcing them.

Mr. KING added to his former explanation, that arming meant not only to provide for uniformity of arms, but included the authority to regulate the modes of furnishing, either by the militia themselves, 