Page:Debates in the Several State Conventions, v5.djvu/433

1787.] sect. 6,) was too important to be exercised by a bare majority of a, quorum, and, in emergencies of faction, might be dangerously abused. He moved that "with the concurrence of two thirds" might be inserted between "may" and "expel."

Mr. RANDOLPH and Mr. MASON approved the idea.

Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS. This power may be safely trusted to a majority. To require more, may produce abuses on the side of the minority. A few men, from factious motives, may keep in a member who ought to be expelled.

Mr. CARROLL thought that the concurrence of two thirds, at least, ought to be required.

On the question requiring two thirds, in cases of expelling a member,—ten states were in the affirmative; Pennsylvania, divided.

Article 6, sect. 6, as thus amended, was then agreed to, ''nem. con.''$202$

Article 6, sect. 7, was then taken up.

Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS urged, that, if the yeas and nays were proper at all, any individual ought to be authorized to call for them; and moved an amendment to that effect. The small states may otherwise be under a disadvantage, and find it difficult to get a concurrence of one fifth.

Mr. RANDOLPH seconded the motion.

Mr. SHERMAN had rather strike out the yeas and nays altogether. They have never done any good, and have done much mischief. They are not proper, as the reasons governing the voter never appear along with them.

Mr. ELLSWORTH was of the same opinion.

Col. MASON liked the section as it stood. It was a middle way between two extremes.

Mr. GORHAM was opposed to the motion for allowing a single member to call the yeas and nays, and recited the abuses of it in Massachusetts; first, in stuffing the Journals with them on frivolous occasions; secondly, in misleading the people, who never know the reasons determining the votes.

The motion for allowing a single member to call the yeas and nays, was disagreed to, ''nem. con.''

Mr. CARROLL and Mr. RANDOLPH moved to strike out the words, "each House," and to insert the words, "the House of Representatives," in sect. 7, article 6; and to add to the section the words, "and any member of the Senate shall be at liberty to enter his dissent."

Mr. GOUVERNEUR MORRIS and Mr. WILSON observed, that, if the minority were to have a right to enter their votes and reasons, the other side would have a right to complain if it were not extended to them; and to allow it to both would fill the Journals, like the records of a court, with replications, rejoinders, &c.

On the question on Mr. Carroll's motion, to allow a member to enter his dissent,—