Page:Debates in the Several State Conventions, v3.djvu/599

.] Mr. MADISON answered Mr. Monroe, by observing that the county courts were perfectly independent of each other. where the same inconvenience might arise: the states are also independent of each other. We well know, sir, that foreigners cannot get justice done them in these courts, and this has prevented many wealthy gentlemen, from trading or residing among us. There are also many public debtors, who have escaped from justice for want of such a method as is pointed out in the plan on the table. To prevent any interference of the federal and state judiciaries, the judges of the states may be deprived of holding any office in the general government.

Mr. GRAYSON observed, that the federal and state judiciaries could not, on the present plan, be kept in perfect harmony. As to the trial by jury being safer here than in England, that I deny. Jury trials are secured there, sir, by Magna Charta, in a clear and decided manner; and that here it is not in express and positive terms, is admitted by most gentlemen who now hear me. He concluded with saying, that he did not believe there existed a social compact upon the face of the earth so vague and so indefinite as the one now on the table.

Mr. HENRY went into an explanation of the trial by jury, and the difference between the new plan and our bill of rights, and observed that the latter had been violated by several acts of Assembly, which could only be justified by necessity. He begged gentlemen to consider how necessary it was to have that invaluable blessing secured: those feeble implications, relative to juries, in the new plan, might create me unhappy tendency of factions in a republican government, which nothing but a monarchy could suppress. As to people escaping with public money, the gentleman must know that bond and security are always taken on occasions where men are intrusted with collection of it; and these can follow them, and be sued for and recovered in another state, or wherever they may escape to.

Mr. MADISON here observed, that the declaration on that paper could not diminish the security of the people, unless a majority of their representatives should concur in a violation of their rights.

Mr. GEORGE MASON. Mr. Chairman, I should not have troubled the committee again on this subject, were