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192 Mr. I think what we decided was -- I don't think we were that specific. We said: Let's wait until the Department of Justice gets its leadership team on and figures out how it wants to staff the -- this case. Because you'll recall, during his confirmation hearing, one of the things Rod Rosenstein had promised the Senate was he would think about whether to appoint a special prosecutor once he became Deputy Attorney General.

Mr. So how did you know that he was on the cusp, according to your words, the cusp of recusal? How would you know that?

Mr. A couple of reasons. It seemed like an obvious case for recusal, given his role in the campaign. And I think -- in fact, I know we had been told by that point that the career officials at the Department of Justice were recommending that he recuse himself. I think we knew that at that point. So it seemed a foregone conclusion the Attorney General was going to step out of Russia matters.

Mr. So who told you?

Mr. I don't remember.

Mr. Why would they have told you?

Mr. Well, the person who told me would have been someone on my senior team.

Mr. Yeah, but why would that have been communicated? Before a recusal actually took place, why would