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136 knowledge -- let me correct that -- no knowledge on the part of the FBI of anybody, George Papadopoulos or any others, that potentially could have been involved in this Russian narrative?

Mr. This -- Counsel, this I've said publicly, and it's been cleared, I think, in my book, so I'm going to say it again. My recollection is the first information we had, certainly the first information that came to my attention that Americans might be working with the Russians as part of their efforts, came at the end of July -- I think the 31st is too late, but the last week of July -- when we received information from an allied nation about the conversations their ambassador had in England with George Papadopoulos.

That was the beginning of it, which is the first time we turned to trying to figure out whether any Americans were working with the Russians.

Mr. So any information that was collected prior to that would have been done without the FBI's knowledge, without your direct knowledge? Is that what you're telling me?

Mr. I don't know what you mean by "any information that was collected."

Mr. So any counterintelligence collection that was done by the FBI would have been done without your knowledge prior to the last week of July 2016?

Mr. I'm sorry to keep quibbling, but I don't know what you mean by "any information collected." The FBI has lots