Page:CTRL0000034610 - Deposition of Keith Kellogg, Jr., (Dec. 14, 2021).pdf/70

70 Well, I think I saw it because I know there was -- this is something to ask Mark Meadows and Marc Short. Clearly the two chiefs of staff saw things differently.

So there's a disagreement between Mark Meadows and Marc Short?

I would say that's an appropriate answer, yes.

Okay. You're kind of smirking when you say that. Why?

Because I just -- you know, they didn't agree.

Can you tell me about the disagreement?

Well, it was just that they didn't -- I mean, one was a very strong supporter of the President of the United States and one is a very strong supporter of the Vice President.

Did it ever come to a head in a meeting?

No, I never saw it come to a head, no, not at all.

Were you ever on a call where the two of them were discussing this?

No, but, you know, the West Wing, as you're probably aware, is a pretty small place. And, you know, you can rub shoulders with everybody on a daily basis.

Okay. So what, I guess, what is it that makes you say that they disagreed, if --

From, you know, from everything from body language to, you know, words to the effect or comments they don't do it. And sometimes you don't even have to say a word. It's just the simple optics of the moment. You -- likely you're avoiding each other.

Did you get the sense they were avoiding each other?

Yeah.

Is there anything in particular that makes you say that?

No.