Page:CTRL0000034610 - Deposition of Keith Kellogg, Jr., (Dec. 14, 2021).pdf/36

36 because I'm interested to know what caused this conversation.

It was something that happened in the Oval -- I'm sorry, in the back dining room -- where -- and,, to the best of my knowledge, I don't remember, but he and the President said something and Pat spun up.

And my -- again, what I tried to counsel all the advisers the best I could is, you get paid a lot of money to give your best advice in a calm fashion in any situation, especially in a crisis situation, bad situation, or contentious situation.

And,, I can't remember. But I do remember -- I do remember I said something to Pat about it. I can't remember the exact conversation about it.

Okay. And so was it -- was Mr. Cipollone worked up?

Yes.

I mean, was he angry?

, he was worked up.

Who was he worked up at?

About the -- whatever was discussed in the back office and --

Was he upset with the President?

I don't know. And now thinking about it, and I'm really thinking hard, I think maybe I wasn't in the back office, but I met Pat in the Oval. He was coming out; I was going in. And he was -- words to the effect, basically, "What's up?"

What made you think he was upset?

The way he was talking, you know. When you have an elevated voice, you're talking loud, which is totally out of character. And that's when you say, well, wait a second, you know, everybody take a deep breath, calm down.

What was it that he said?

I don't -- it was just the way, his tone.