Page:CTRL0000034600 - Transcribed Interview of Richard Peter Donoghue, (Oct. 1, 2021).pdf/84

84 contemplating a leadership change come up? Did Mr. Clark raise that, or did you or Mr. Rosen?

Mr. Clark did raise it in a somewhat removed fashion. And he said something to the effect of "Well, you know, the President's thinking about leadership here and whether we have the right leadership for these trying times," or something to that effect. It's not an exact quote. But he made certainly an oblique reference to the fact that there might be a leadership change and that he would be a part of that.

Yeah. All right. And then is that what prompted you to talk about the White House contact policy or direct him to have no further contact with the President?

I said that prior to that because, again, I asked: Why are we hearing your name from the President?

And then he said: Well, because I talked to the President. I met with the President in the Oval Office, and he is very concerned about these things, and I am very concerned about these things, and I think the Department should be very concerned about these things.

So how does the meeting end? Do you have a sense that he understands the direction that you have provided or not and that you expect further problems?

One of the takeaways from the meeting was that Acting AG Rosen had given him permission to get the DNI brief, provided he had the appropriate security clearances, which he said he did. So that, apparently, was going to happen. And then we were going to sort of reconvene later to determine and what, if anything else, should be done once Jeff Clark had the benefit of that briefing.

Okay. But fair to say it ends without a sort of a universal understanding, hey, no apology, no "okay, I got it going forward," but continued to be contention?

Yes. There was definitely still a contentious situation as the meeting