Page:CTRL0000034600 - Transcribed Interview of Richard Peter Donoghue, (Oct. 1, 2021).pdf/62

62 false and/or just not supported by the evidence. We look at the allegations but they don't pan out."

The President was getting very frustrated. He said, "This is electioneering fraud."

And then, again, I have a quote from him: "We have an obligation to tell people that this was an illegal, corrupt election."

Then he said, "People tell me Jeff Clark is great" and that "I should put him in. People want me to replace DOJ leadership."

At which point I responded, sir, that's fine, you should have the leadership you want, but understand, changing the leadership in the Department won't change anything. The—

All right. Let me stop you there.

—Department operates—

Let me stop you there, Mr. Donoghue. Just two things.

So, going back to, "We have an obligation to tell people that this was an illegal, corrupt election," is it fair to say that what he was asking you to do, primarily, was tell people, in some form, a press conference or otherwise, that there was corruption so that some other political strategy could unfold? Was it your impression that the precise ask from the President was more about a public statement than actually the day-to-day investigative work?

I think he probably cared about both of them, but—I don't want to speculate about what was in his mind, but this is what he said. And I think what you take away from that, logically, is that he wanted the Department to say something publicly.

Right. So there's pressure on you and Mr. Rosen, to which you push back, to say something publicly, to say something publicly without basis, that there is an illegal,