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 stability. Not only the United Kingdom but the Soviet Union has an interest. We have a common interest in maintaining the balance of stability in this part of the world. This is at the heart of what we are discussing today; that it will be possible to maintain this stability only if the Federation is genuinely independent, if it is quickly put on its own feet and acts in its own interests. It is in the ultimate interests of the United Kingdom that this should happen.

We must, nevertheless, stand ready to help on the basis of equality and independence. We must give what help we can to speed the rate at which Malaysia can become a nation standing on its own feet. It is a good thing, therefore, that the British Government should give their major help in the early years—as far as ones can see on a generous scale, but we may need to look into that later.

We must also, to be frank, be ready to give help in the sphere of defence. This is a Commonwealth obligation. We assist other Commonwealth countries and it may be necessary for us to help to preserve the stability in the area should it be seriously endangered.

Nonetheless, there is one part of this operation about which I have grave doubts. This concerns the Defence Agreement and its form. An attempt to maintain sovereignty in another sovereign country is a mistake. It is always a mistake. One should accept sovereignty absolutely when it arises and is achieved and then rely upon trying to negotiate as between friends. Defence co-operation depends on a continuing readiness to co-operate and it cannot be settled by a treaty or any piece of paper. If one tries to lay down rights which are really against the nature of things—treaty rights preserving sovereignty in another sovereign country—one's purposes are in the end defeated. Any defence agreement must depend on running and continuing defence co-operation, just as we have with the older Commonwealth countries. If this is not done, too much argument is in the end given to one's opponents. One finds continuing arguments in the country concerned and the whole position can become involved and dangerous; and weakness rather than strength follows.

Whereas defence must be a factor in all of this, it is not the prime factor. It is in the interests of all that Malaysia should have good relations with Indonesia. This is vitally necessary for the stability of the area. I regret the breakdown of the Manila Agreement and the sudden switch by Mr. Sukarno of his views. I simply do no believe the charges that The Tunku showed bad faith. I am sure that Malaysia will do all it can to achieve honourable co-operation with Indonesia. I am pleased to hear the news which appears to coming through now that The Tunku is ready to meet Mr. Sukarno personally and to discuss the difficulties. 935 I hope that, in the end, a wider and fuller Federation, including Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines may be worked out. This is a matter for these countries: but if it should come about I am sure that we will all welcome it and will wish to help as much as we can.

The Under-Secretary was right when he said that the Federation may fail. There are not only the difficulties of Federation to be faced, but these difficulties are somewhat extenuated by others which are peculiar to the area. We all wish it well. We will do what we can to help, and I agree that this is a real attempt to create racial partnership in a State based on racial partnership. It is not a substitution of Malaya for Britain. The whole thing rests on a real attempt to solve the very difficult racial problems in terms of real partnership. The ultimate success of the Federation will depend upon its success in achieving this end as quickly as it can.

I think there are good reasons to hope that the Federation will be a success. It has risen out of local desires. We have come in to help, but it has arisen out of local desires and it is a local achievement, not a British achievement. It is a local achievement by the people themselves. It rests upon a good basis of Parliamentary democracy, and it has considerable resources of population and wealth at its disposal, and certainly its resources of wealth will be increased as a result of Federation.

I think we simply must welcome the entry of a new nation into the Commonwealth, a large nation which can stand on its own feet. We must hope it will overcome the still formidable difficulties in its way. We must be ourselves ready to