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 case of Sarawak, say, among the Dyaks to Islam, is there not a real possibility that there might be the two-thirds, who could then impose upon the people of Sarawak the same unfortunate restrictions as are being imposed upon the people of Malaya?

Mr. Fisher Theoretically, there is that possibility. In practice, however, I should have thought that there was not much likelihood of it. I am conscious of the fact that the hon. Member knows that part of the world very well, whereas I, unfortunately, have never been there, and so I do not enter into an argument with him on the practical considerations, because for all I know I may be on difficult ground. However, in theory, certainly it could be done, but in practice I am advised that it is very unlikely to happen because of the relatively small number of Muslims in the two countries.

Mr. Brockway Is the hon. Gentleman aware that that is already happening in Malaya, in areas of which the propaganda of Christian teaching is now prohibited? Will he make representations about this before the Malaysia scheme goes through?

Mr. Fisher I do not think that we are in a position to make representations to Malaya about these things. I would have thought it very late in the day to make representations to anyone. These matters have now been agreed. I do not like to seem to be facing the House with a fait accompli, but they have been agreed by the parties concerned, and I think that it would be unwise for me to respond to the hon. Gentleman's invitation. This was merely an example—perhaps I was ill-advised to give it—of the way in which Malaya has been, I shall not say generous because I think that has an unfortunate connotation, but forthcoming, in her attitude to the other territories.

There was a further example to which I was coming in respect of immigration. This again is normally an entirely federal subject, but the States have been given protection against the unrestricted movement of people from other parts of the Federation, and except in specified circumstances, entry into the Borneo territories will require the approval of the State concerned. In all these ways we have had a very co-operative attitude from Malaya.

I should perhaps say, as I mentioned the high representation of the Borneo territories, that Singapore will have proportionately a much weaker representation in the Federal Parliament, with only 15 seats for a population of 1.7 million. But she will, in return, retain a good deal of local autonomy.

That is all that I want to say except that one knows that federations are never easy to form and never easy to work, especially in the initial stages. This one has been no exception, as the House knows, in its formation which, of course, presented many predictable difficulties, and I expect that it will be no exception in its early stages. I am sure that it will have its teething troubles, like any other nation of federated territories. But I am always an optimist and I am particularly so in this case. I know that my right hon. Friend, who knows much more about this Federation than I do, is optimistic too, because we believe now that there really is a great enthusiasm for Malaysia among the people concerned. I am advised that this is very much the atmosphere which has been gaining momentum all the time.

May I say that the leaders of the countries, which are to unite on 31st August, have shown a very high level of statesmanship throughout the past two years, and I am persuaded that they will continue to do so. We in this House certainly—I know that in this respect I speak for the whole House—wish them well in their task of creating this new independent nation in the Commonwealth, and I am quite confident that hon. Members will give the Federation a good start by giving this Bill an unopposed passage through the House of Commons today.


 * 11.24 a.m.

Mr. Gordon Walker (Smethwick) The Under-Secretary of State has given us a characteristically modest and disarming speech, has shown his usual mastery of his subject and great frankness, and we are very grateful to him. We are grateful to him, too, for setting out so clearly the history which ought to be put on the record and which is not in dispute.