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 spontaneous and natural association of peoples.

The Observer remarked on Sunday that it is a little ironical that we should be creating a Federation today when last week we destroyed one. I am not suggesting that there is a close parallel between the Central African Federation and the proposal of Malaysia. In the case of the Central African Federation, it was a minority race imposing federation upon a great majority of the population. But we have also had the disturbing experience of the West Indian Federation. Most of us supported that, but we find that that also dissolved because the people of the largest island would not accept it. At this moment, the Secretary of State is engaged in negotiations for an East Carib- 944 bean Federation, a much smaller effort than the proposal of Malaysia, but he is finding that he must take the greatest detailed care before the establishment of that Federation. There is one contrast to all this. When federation arises from the spontaneous desire of peoples to become associated, it is a good thing. We are finding that in East Africa today, which is of such tremendous promise.

I shall not speak dogmatically today. It may be that the fears in my mind are wrong. I am only going to say that, before we take a step of this character, we should be certain beyond any per-adventure that a federation proposal has the support of the peoples. I think that we must in the case of Malaysia recognise quite frankly that the motive, the dominant motive, was not of an association of naturally linked peoples. The Under-Secretary of State began his history from two years ago. The idea of Malaysia has in fact been discussed in the territories in an informal way for a longer period, but when it was proposed two years ago the motive for it was strategic.

It is certainly fantastic that Malaya and Singapore should not belong to one State. Singapore, the toe of Malaya, is joined to it by a short causeway. Both in Singapore and Malaya, perhaps more in Singapore, over the years there has been advocacy of the union of the two States. But the Tungku—and one understands his reasons, for he had been passing through years of jungle war with Communism as a real menace—did not desire the union just of Singapore with Malaya, because of the majority Chinese population in Singapore. The motive of the Malaysia scheme was with the thought that if the federation could be extended from Malaya and Singapore to include the peoples of Borneo, the majority Chinese population in Singapore would be balanced. Let us be quite clear that the original intention was not a natural association, but was ideological and strategic.

Even though that may have been the motive, the effect may still be good. I want to say as emphatically as I can that I do not think that there is anyone on this side of the House who wishes to see Communism become dominant over this region. We would not want it because we believe in liberties and democracies and we do not want a totalitarian 945 State there; but we do not want a Communist domination more deeply because it would be likely that China would be the major influence, and the Chinese attitude that world revolution should come by war would make its influence a very great danger. Therefore, while I do not regard the motive as the democratic motive of the natural association of peoples, one does not say that the effect might not be good.

I respond at once to the invitation to indicate the views of the delegation and later myself about the support for federation which we found in these territories. I think that I can say that we broadly agreed about the facts, even though our interpretation of them and our conclusions from them were different.

We took the view that in Malaya and Singapore there was a majority opinion in favour of Malaysia, with strong minorities. We took the view that in Sarawak opinion was undecided. I held that it was probably about 50–50, but some of my colleagues took the view that there was a majority for Malaysia. In Brunei we had little doubt that not only the opinion of the Sultan, but that of the people was against Malaysia. My hon. Friend the Member for Leyton (Mr. Sorensen) may qualify that by saying that it was bemused and bewildered and not certain. In North Borneo there was no doubt that the majority of those who were politically alert were in favour of Malaysia. I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Leyton and my right hon. Friend the Member for Middles rough, East (Mr. Bottomley) will agree that that is an accurate picture of the opinion of these peoples.