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 210 GRATTAN. ing troops; if then, in time of war, the country could sub sist without troops, will any man say, that in time of profound peace she ought to support fifteen thousand men 2 No; now is the time for reducing your military establishment; l e t your intention b e known this day, that the right honourable secretary may have time t o commu nicate with England; i f you neglect the present oppor tunity, n o minister hereafter will have even a pretence for restoring the finances o f this country. “I am n o partisan; either here o r i n England, I can gain nothing b y it; I am ready i n either place, like a man, t o support ministers while they are right; and whenever they are wrong, t o oppose them, and resist their measures. At present, I hope my honourable friend will allow me t o alter his motion, and state a precise idea; I would have i t run thus:— Resolved, That the condition o f this coun try requires every practicable retrenchment, &c. and that the military establishment i n i t s present state, affords room for effectual retrenchment.” “I love the army a s a body o f brave and worthy men; but I would not sacrifice the kingdom t o their benefit. Now, Sir, i f ministers really mean economy, they will agree with this amendment o f mine; i f not, they will amuse u s with the words only.” Mr. George Ponsonby. —“Sir, I can see a s plainly a s any man, the intent o f the reflections thrown upon your predecessor i n the chair; and I must say, a s t o the mover o f this resolution, that n o disapprobation o f his gives me any but a pleasurable sensation, and I d o a t a l l times feel that supreme contempt for his disapprobation and opinion, which I now take the liberty t o declare.” Mr. Ponsonby then entered into a defence o f his father's (the late Speaker) conduct; h e recited the history o f that time. He said, “that Mr. Flood had exerted himself t o support his father's interest against Lord Townshend's attacks, and asked why, when virtue i n the shape o f Lord Towns hend, had overturned interest, the alleged system o f pro fusion had not been overturned also f He declared his